Win or Lose

D23ExpoVisitor25 · Post by **D23ExpoVisitor25** » Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:28 pm

Pokenonbinary wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:21 pm
D23ExpoVisitor25 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 5:38 pm

Ok first of all, everything you said at the top is a lie and is unsourced, unverified, and untrue.

Second, Dream Productions had a 40% bigger debut than X-Men ‘97, so I doubt Win Or Lose gets no viewership. And if they really “don't care a little bit about queer representation if they cut a trans character from a TV SHOW nobody was going to watch anyways,” how come they didn’t cut out Billy Maximoff’s LGBTQ elements from Agatha All Along and allowed Marvel Studios to have LGBTQ representation with Eternals, Doctor Strange In The Multiverse of Madness, and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, along with The Proud Family: Louder and Prouder, Big Shot, Love, Victor, All of Us Strangers, etc?

Seems that they think LGBTQ representation is allowed in live-action Disney fare and not animated fare because animated fare is associated with kids and parents don’t want kids to learn about transsexual stuff because parents are horrified seeing women turn into men and men turn into women.

It’s not rocket science and it pays nothing to learn that if you weren’t so far left for once.
Eternals has a explicit queer character because Chloe Zhao won multiple Oscars so Feige and Iger trusted her

America Chavez has a pride flag pin and 2 seconds of her two mothers, Wakanda Forever cut the LGBT couple so what the fuck are you saying?

Anyways the MCU is more adult oriented so my point still stands, they see LGBT representation as something for adults and "dirty"

And yes you guys are right, we should complain about other animation studios for not even trying, they suck too

Ok, first of all, Chavez’s mothers are on screen for about a minute, not two seconds.

Second, you’re wrong about the Wakanda Forever couple being cut, it was still in there when I saw the movie 5X opening weekend. But clearly you’re blind to see or remember that.

Also, Universal did try that with Minions 2 but it was banned in China for having a same-sex couple in it for a few seconds until they removed it a month later for China.

The hard truth is clear.

Unless it’s media that is live action for ages 18 and up, there is no room for LGBTQ rep in animation anymore otherwise it will just make parents boycott Disney. It’s time for it to end for money-related reasons, not because it’s personal.

Farerb · Post by **Farerb** » Fri Dec 27, 2024 3:36 pm

Ex-Pixar Staffers Decry ‘Win or Lose’ Trans Storyline Being Scrapped: “Can’t Tell You How Much I Cried”
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movie ... 236093299/

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Fri Dec 27, 2024 4:04 pm

One consultant on the episode says the company is "asking someone to play someone they're not" by changing a character voiced by trans actress Chanel Stewart to cisgender.

Isn't acting all about that?

D23ExpoVisitor25 · Post by **D23ExpoVisitor25** » Fri Dec 27, 2024 6:04 pm

Sotiris wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 4:04 pm
One consultant on the episode says the company is "asking someone to play someone they're not" by changing a character voiced by trans actress Chanel Stewart to cisgender.
Isn't acting all about that?

Not anymore.

DisneyJedi · Post by **DisneyJedi** » Fri Dec 27, 2024 7:51 pm

Okay, so let me get this straight. Disney is willing to do a revival series where one of the main characters is gay and non-binary and two of the main characters have adopted fathers who are both gay (The Proud Family: Louder and Prouder), a series where the main character is bisexual, her love interest is a lesbian and another character is non-binary (The Owl House), a gay main character in one of their movies (Strange World), but a trans character/storyline is where the line gets drawn?

D23ExpoVisitor25 · Post by **D23ExpoVisitor25** » Fri Dec 27, 2024 8:34 pm

DisneyJedi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 7:51 pm Okay, so let me get this straight. Disney is willing to do a revival series where one of the main characters is gay and non-binary and two of the main characters have adopted fathers who are both gay (The Proud Family: Louder and Prouder), a series where the main character is bisexual, her love interest is a lesbian and another character is non-binary (The Owl House), a gay main character in one of their movies (Strange World), but a trans character/storyline is where the line gets drawn?

Yes because these days, unfortunately, most of our country’s parents are Karens who don’t want their kids to see boys/men turn into girls/women or see girls/women turn into boys/men as they see it as unholy and a betrayal of God’s creation of humans as he sees fit.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:58 am

New posters and trailer.

PatchofBlue · Post by **PatchofBlue** » Fri Jan 17, 2025 1:00 pm

The humor seems to be at an 11 from start to finish, at least from everything shown in the trailers, and I can't gauge whether that'll serve the series well or not.

Farerb · Post by **Farerb** » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:16 pm

This doesn't look good or interesting. Why doesn't the barista have a nose?

Is that supposed to be an appealing design??

Pixar went downhill after Toy Story 3 and got increasingly worse.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sat Jan 18, 2025 3:01 pm

The only discussion I've seen on social media after the newest trailer dropped was people criticizing the character designs. There's no way this will perform well on Disney+.

PatchofBlue · Post by **PatchofBlue** » Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:58 pm

That'd be a shame. Whether or not this specific series worked out well, I don't want Pixar or Disney to close the door on using their resources to produce proper, full-length shows. It's a nice idea that I think could genuinely flourish under the right conditions ... conditions which haven't really been met since Disney+ went live.

Farerb · Post by **Farerb** » Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:45 pm

PatchofBlue wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:58 pm That'd be a shame. Whether or not this specific series worked out well, I don't want Pixar or Disney to close the door on using their resources to produce proper, full-length shows. It's a nice idea that I think could genuinely flourish under the right conditions ... conditions which haven't really been met since Disney+ went live.

It's unsustainable.

PatchofBlue · Post by **PatchofBlue** » Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:35 am

Farerb wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:45 pm
PatchofBlue wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2025 6:58 pm That'd be a shame. Whether or not this specific series worked out well, I don't want Pixar or Disney to close the door on using their resources to produce proper, full-length shows. It's a nice idea that I think could genuinely flourish under the right conditions ... conditions which haven't really been met since Disney+ went live.
It's unsustainable.

How do you mean?

Farerb · Post by **Farerb** » Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:44 am

PatchofBlue wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:35 am How do you mean?

I don't think these shows are cheap. They might not cost the same as their theatrical features, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the budget for this show is somewhere between $100-150 million. Then they release them on Disney+ with no extra charge, it's a waste, mainly because I don't think this kind of show is what will convince people to subscribe to the streaming service.

All of these series were announced and started development when Disney decided to invest in streaming, but that's no longer the case. They haven't announced any new series and I don't think it's likely at this point. Disney Animation and Pixar are better off doing series of shorts like Dug Days, Cars on the Road and Zootopia+ in my opinion.

Pokenonbinary · Post by **Pokenonbinary** » Sun Jan 19, 2025 4:14 am

Farerb wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:16 pm This doesn't look good or interesting. Why doesn't the barista have a nose?

Is that supposed to be an appealing design??

Pixar went downhill after Toy Story 3 and got increasingly worse.

I think she has a cute design

This show is not realistic at all so I don't care if she doesn't have a nose

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sun Jan 19, 2025 1:16 pm

I don't get it either. You can do characters without noses for aliens animals, or fantasy creatures, but I cant think of a good example of a human not having one.

PatchofBlue · Post by **PatchofBlue** » Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:54 pm

Farerb wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:44 am
PatchofBlue wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:35 am How do you mean?
I don't think these shows are cheap. They might not cost the same as their theatrical features, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the budget for this show is somewhere between $100-150 million. Then they release them on Disney+ with no extra charge, it's a waste, mainly because I don't think this kind of show is what will convince people to subscribe to the streaming service.

All of these series were announced and started development when Disney decided to invest in streaming, but that's no longer the case. They haven't announced any new series and I don't think it's likely at this point. Disney Animation and Pixar are better off doing series of shorts like Dug Days, Cars on the Road and Zootopia+ in my opinion.

That's a very valid observation about the pitfalls of making any content, especially films, directly for streaming. You don't see direct connection between the specific project and its monetary return the way you do with a theatrical release, and I think a lot of streaming services are starting to recognize this.

Even so, I think there have to be ways around that. If any potential series contributed to them keeping or gaining subscribers, which I believe is the goal, there would be some pay-off for them. That's the same logic by which they dropped entire feature-length films directly onto streaming. If they could bring themselves to do that with projects that were conceived for the big screen, there has to be some scenario where they could do that with a series.

Anyways, they could also invest in a more stylized brand of animation that isn't as expensive, similar though not necessarily identical to the form of animation used for Tangled: The Series. They'd find there are a lot of right answers here if they put their minds to it.

I'd want to see a future with Disney and Pixar actively contributing to Disney+ with long-form shows in addition to their theatrical output because I feel like that would hypothetically be a good way to utilize a lot of artists that they can't necessarily staff with just their regular offerings of one film per year per studio. Hopeful thinking, yes, but what else are these threads for?

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:18 pm

PatchofBlue · Post by **PatchofBlue** » Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:47 am

Caught the first two episodes this week. They were perfectly fine.

They both had nice payoffs in the end, but the show itself is a giant cringe-fest. But like ... not unintentionally so. The story appears to be actively chasing the feeling of wanting to avert your eyes but not being able to look away from the car wreck, and I can't decide whether or not I think that's brave.

They were entertaining enough that I intend to keep watching through the rest of the season.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:26 pm

So its cringe in the same way the office is?

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