Wish

[Mooky]

Some of these song criticisms of mine I've had from the first listen(s)...I listened to the soundtrack a lot at work today. I absolutely love it, but some lyrics I find strange:

"This Is The Thanks I Get?!":
I'd give the clothes off Benito's back...
I'd be the first one to volunteer, Henry!

I find it weird because who are Benito and Henry, and I guess what does Magnifico offering their services have to do with what he's singing about? I get that he's saying he'd do anything for his kingdom...

I believe the song is supposed to be understood as Magnifico venting out loud, and "Benito" and "Henry" are supposed to be stand-ins for regular Rosas folk, sort of like a "Tom, Dick & Harry" archetype. Like, "I'd do this and that for any of them, and yet they repay me by questioning my actions". Except he wouldn't, because the lyrics are actually a clever wordplay meant to indicate just how egotistical Magnifico actually is.

- "I'd give the clothes off Benito's back": the idiom is to "give the shirt off one's (own) back", meaning give away everything they possess, and Magnifico would not be giving away his possessions, but "Benito"'s (a regular person's)

- "I'd be the first one to volunteer -- Henry": another wordplay where at first it seems Magnifico volunteers himself for whatever action is required, only for him to yell "Henry" in the end. Because of that addition, that line takes on a whole new meaning -- he's volunteering "Henry" (another regular person) instead of himself.

When Kina first watched the film’s ending, she was left bawling. Further test screenings would lead the directors to alter the finale to be less traumatic.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movi ... thorn.html

So I take that as there were actual deaths in the original version, either one of the protagonists' fake-out death (I assume Asha's, and then people's wishes were supposed to bring her back to life), or Magnifico's demise was deemed too scary for kids so he only ends up imprisoned in his staff/mirror.

[Kyle]

Spiderverses Comic book style with those iconic comic dots wouldnt also work in 2d for the same reason.

...what? the comicbook dots would work fine in 2d, its already a 2d effect.

Further test screenings would lead the directors to alter the finale to be less traumatic.
they really need to stop focus grouping the good stuff out of these movies. Stop focus testing things altogether.

[DisneyJedi]

What could have been so traumatic about the finale in the test screening?

[blackcauldron85]

I believe the song is supposed to be understood as Magnifico venting out loud, and "Benito" and "Henry" are supposed to be stand-ins for regular Rosas folk, sort of like a "Tom, Dick & Harry" archetype. Like, "I'd do this and that for any of them, and yet they repay me by questioning my actions". Except he wouldn't, because the lyrics are actually a clever wordplay meant to indicate just how egotistical Magnifico actually is.

- "I'd give the clothes off Benito's back": the idiom is to "give the shirt off one's (own) back", meaning give away everything they possess, and Magnifico would not be giving away his possessions, but "Benito"'s (a regular person's)

- "I'd be the first one to volunteer -- Henry": another wordplay where at first it seems Magnifico volunteers himself for whatever action is required, only for him to yell "Henry" in the end. Because of that addition, that line takes on a whole new meaning -- he's volunteering "Henry" (another regular person) instead of himself.

That makes perfect sense- thank you!!!!

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movi ... thorn.html

So I take that as there were actual deaths in the original version, either one of the protagonists' fake-out death (I assume Asha's, and then people's wishes were supposed to bring her back to life), or Magnifico's demise was deemed too scary for kids so he only ends up imprisoned in his staff/mirror.

My first thought had been when Star is planning on going away, maybe that was too sad? Maybe that's why, when Valentino is sad that Star is leaving, they added that he's not leaving quite yet...?

[carolinakid]

Thank goodness they weren’t involved with Bambi or the other classics where sad things happen. God forbid her seven year old be traumatized!

[Mooky]

That makes perfect sense- thank you!!!!

You're welcome!

[carolinakid]

WDW Pro has an interesting you tube video about several animators coming forward to tell how Wish was taken over by activists who turned it from charming to propaganda.

[megustajake]

I think the movie will end up grossing around 200-300 Million$, but clearly not 400+.

I won’t let Wish’s failure put me in despair. This can be a learning moment for Disney. All they need to do is learn that people want to see them go back to hand-drawn animation on a bigger scale beyond #OnceUponAStudio, starting with Walt Disney Animation Studios’ Disney+ #ThePrincessAndTheFrog sequel series #Tiana (when it comes out in late 2024 or in 2025) and maybe that #MickeyMouse movie they can put back into production for a theatrical release in 2028 for Mickey’s 100th birthday called #TheSearchForMickeyMouse, which #OnceUponAStudio’s directors/writers, animator Eric Goldberg, and Disney composer/lyricist Richard Sherman (before he passes on) can work on now or after the potential win of #OnceUponAStudio at the Oscars for Best Animated Short this coming Spring.

I also think its a great lesson for Disney, but not because of the animation. The big thing Disney need to get from this is that at the end of the day, STORY matters, its what we all come (back) for. I could look over Wishs Animation Style, but the bland story is what most people including me complain about. I think it would be also cool if Wish was in 2d, but this wouldnt have changed my perception that the story is so soulless. I think you could compare it to Little Mermaid with maybe Princess and the Frog or Aladdin: you can clearly tell that Little Mermaids Animation isnt as clean or polished as the latter 2, you could screenshot them and see how beautiful the artwork was done, thats mostly due to them being made in CAPS and Mermaid being the last which was animated with the cel method thing so the animation doesnt look as sharp and eye pleasing as the other ones (just my opinion and im not saying Mermaids animation is bad, which its not, just saying the other movies animation look a bit better). I could even throw in other movies like Fox and Hound or Robin Hood etc. You could say their animation isnt as detailed or eye pleasing as the newer ones from the 2000s (ESPECIALLY CG animation aged), but their story is what will be timeless at the end, thats what drives me back to watch them again, THATS the thing that will make the movies stand the test of time, including Mermaid and Shrek (2) of course (I Love those movies ). What I wanna say with this is that the animation style shouldnt and wont be the selling point. Im also a fan of classic 2d Animation, and Animation can elevate a story, but if there IS no story, then even the most beautiful animation cant save it. STORY is the heart of every movie, characters and their flaws that fill the story and a great personal lesson, everything Wish doesnt have.
And Im not against CG animation AT ALL! Sometimes you even benefit from it even more than 2d Animation! For example, Miraculous would have been actually 2d (anime), but doing Ladybugs costume in 2d would have been difficult to do in handdrwan because of her dots in her costume, thats the main reason why they switched the series into 3d (would have been more eyepleasing in 2d but its alright) . And Spiderverses Comic book style with those iconic comic dots wouldnt also work in 2d for the same reason. And I think those elements elevate the experience and feel of those movies/ series. With CG you can add details that you cant in 2d, but its only benefitial if the story demands those details.

100% !!!

I love and prefer 2D animation, but story is ultimately more important than style. I looked forward to Princess and the Frog for years (and even flew from Minnesota to Los Angeles for its Disneyland premiere) but honestly preferred Tangled because it was a tighter, more coherent story. Frozen had story issues as well, but at least managed to capture a few moments of true Disney magic. I won't beat a dead horse (and I'm not trying to upset anyone who did like Wish), but its story was a mess. Most of Disney's recent releases just don't compare to their classics, especially the Renaissance when Disney was mastering story structure project after project. There are a few exceptions: Zootopia was better than I expected it to be, and I liked Encanto despite internal logic inconsistencies.

I honestly looked forward to Wish because of its style — it looks more like the classics I love, and I was hoping the story would be strong enough to overcome mediocre songs. It wasn't. And I ended up having issues with the way a lot of the characters looked and integrated with their environments, too.

I hope the lesson Disney takes away from this lackluster year is that story should always be king. I read Ed Catmull's "Creativity Inc" and he reiterates that point time and time again.

[bruno_wbt]

It's clear that people aren't interested in new original stories, they just want remakes and sequels.

Frozen 3 and 4 are going to have a great success...

[DisneyJedi]

It's clear that people aren't interested in new original stories, they just want remakes and sequels.

Frozen 3 and 4 are going to have a great success...

That’s the message I’m worried that Disney will get and be all, “Well, I guess you guys don’t want original stories and more stylized animation. So we’ll just pump out more remakes and sequels with standard looking CGI forever.”

[Farerb]

Calling Wish "original" is generous.

[megustajake]

It's clear that people aren't interested in new original stories, they just want remakes and sequels.

Frozen 3 and 4 are going to have a great success...

That’s the message I’m worried that Disney will get and be all, “Well, I guess you guys don’t want original stories and more stylized animation. So we’ll just pump out more remakes and sequels with standard looking CGI forever.”

If that’s the message they take away from this, then they’ll just continue to drive their existing properties into the ground as other animation studios eclipse them.

[megustajake]

WDW Pro has an interesting you tube video about several animators coming forward to tell how Wish was taken over by activists who turned it from charming to propaganda.

What “propaganda” is embedded in Wish? I think the movie is pretty safe overall, though I did like its implication we’re all made of stardust.

[Patricier21]

Calling Wish "original" is generous.

You haven’t even seen it! You stated that you had no reason to check it out, so that’s very rich to say the least to make the claim you’re making about it! I know you’re cynical, more than likely trying to account for something you’re insecure about, but Jesus Christ! What’s your problem?

[Thumper_93]

People do want original stories but they don’t want to pay for it. They wait till they can watch new movies on Disney+ for free. I’ve always said that releasing the new movies a few months later on digital platforms is a big mistake. I understand that they need new content for it but they are harming themselves and loosing too much money.
A few years ago you have to wait over 4 months to buy the movie on blu ray. Now you don't even have to buy it the film because you know that you are going to enjoy it soon. Disney is loosing the money of the theater tickets and the money that gave the phisical media.
And of course there is a “hating Disney” trend on social media. I think that the problem started with TLM live action and with Marvel…

[Farerb]

You haven’t even seen it! You stated that you had no reason to check it out, so that’s very rich to say the least to make the claim you’re making about it! I know you’re cynical, more than likely trying to account for something you’re insecure about, but Jesus Christ! What’s your problem?

Who said I haven't seen it ???

[Patricier21]

You haven’t even seen it! You stated that you had no reason to check it out, so that’s very rich to say the least to make the claim you’re making about it! I know you’re cynical, more than likely trying to account for something you’re insecure about, but Jesus Christ! What’s your problem?

Who said I haven't seen it ???

I know I saw a post on Blu-ray forum where you said that you had no interest or intention of seeing it. And not to assume, but even if you have, was it online since you’ve made it clear that you are so against it and Disney overall, given your usual attitude when posting about it?

[Pokenonbinary]

Girl we know it's a flop since last month, the 50M projections were already total flop but now it will probably open under 30M, A MSSIVE FLOP

Many people will get fired for sure

If that’s supposed to be a joke, I don’t find it very funny.

I'm tired of disney adults, how is a joke say that the movie is a massive flop, it's literally a massive flop opening even lower than Encanto in 2021 with the pandemic

[Farerb]

I know I saw a post on Blu-ray forum where you said that you had no interest or intention of seeing it. And not to assume, but even if you have, was it online since you’ve made it clear that you are so against it and Disney overall, given your usual attitude when posting about it?

That wasn't me:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=526

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=560

[Patricier21]

I know I saw a post on Blu-ray forum where you said that you had no interest or intention of seeing it. And not to assume, but even if you have, was it online since you’ve made it clear that you are so against it and Disney overall, given your usual attitude when posting about it?

That wasn't me:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=526

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=560

No, I saw A post by your username stating that exact same thing. Please don’t lie to us!