Brave vs Frozen II

[Farerb]

...And they would be right for most of them are horribly written.
You have Mulan as an avatar so I guess you're a fan of hers and I would hope that the treatment of her character in the live action remake didn't please you.

They empowered Mulan in the remake the same way as they did Belle, Jasmine and Cinderella.

[Redadoodles]

...And they would be right for most of them are horribly written.
You have Mulan as an avatar so I guess you're a fan of hers and I would hope that the treatment of her character in the live action remake didn't please you.

They empowered Mulan in the remake the same way as they did Belle, Jasmine and Cinderella.

Empowered? They completely destroyed her character. In the original, Mulan is an ordinary girl who has no super powers and no desire to fight but goes to war because that's what feels right to her. That's what makes her relatable and wonderful. She works hard to become a warrior as she has no skills and no idea of how to become a soldier. Her strength comes from that.
She's the girl next door who sacrifices herself to save her father, she's not some Mary Sue character who has everything from the start including super powers.

[Farerb]

Empowered? They completely destroyed her character. In the original, Mulan is an ordinary girl who has no super powers and no desire to fight but goes to war because that's what feels right to her. That's what makes her relatable and wonderful. She works hard to become a warrior as she has no skills and no idea of how to become a soldier. Her strength comes that.
She's the girl next door who sacrifices herself to save her father, she's not some Mary Sue character who has everything from the start including super powers.

I said it was the same. Not good. I probably should have used quotation marks. Sorry for the confusion.

[DisneyFan09]

-Belle didn't get married at the end of Beauty and the Beast. It was a celebration of a new era.

Well, to be fair, while the movie never confirms that the ending is their acutal wedding, at least Chip implies it with his "happily ever after" comment. But sure, it`s remarkable that Belle`s gown is the yellow one that she previously wore in her previous dance sequence and not a traditional wedding gown.

-Jasmine didn't get married at the end of Aladdin. I think they were celebrating her 16th birthday.

Well, at least that is true. Both John Musker and Ron Clements confirms this in their Audio Commentary for Aladdin.

[Disney's Divinity]

-Jasmine didn't get married at the end of Aladdin. I think they were celebrating her 16th birthday.

Well, at least that is true. Both John Musker and Ron Clements confirms this in their Audio Commentary for Aladdin.

Oh, really? Wow. I know there is a wedding in King of Thieves, but I don't consider the DTV sequels evidence the original film's ending wasn't a wedding since the DTV sequels' existence was never intended or planned. But if M&C say the ending is just a birthday celebration... Okay? I always took it as them flying off somewhere for their honeymoon.

[DisneyFan09]

Oh, really? Wow. I know there is a wedding in King of Thieves, but I don't consider the DTV sequels evidence the original film's ending wasn't a wedding since the DTV sequels' existence was never intended or planned. But if M&C say the ending is just a birthday celebration... Okay? I always took it as them flying off somewhere for their honeymoon.

Well, they`ve never said that it was Jasmine`s birthday celebration. Only that it wasn`t their wedding. But sure, it`s understandable why you don`t consider the cheapquels to be canon, for obvious reasons

[D82]

-Belle didn't get married at the end of Beauty and the Beast. It was a celebration of a new era.
-Jasmine didn't get married at the end of Aladdin. I think they were celebrating her 16th birthday.
-Pocahontas didn't get married nor remained with her love interest.
-Mulan barely started dating Shang at the end of her film.
-Kida didn't get married either at the end of her film.
There was no wedding between The Little Mermaid (1989) until The Princess And The Frog (2009).

...So yeah, Merida is really NOT as groundbreaking as Brenda Chapman makes her out to be as her rebellious ways were already seen with Ariel, Belle and Jasmine who all defied expectations. Also, Merida is rescued by Elinor twice so she also has a damsel in distress side.

You're right, not all the previous princesses get married at the end of their respective movies. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. The novelty of Merida with respect to them is that she doesn't even have a love interest; not that she doesn't get married at the end. I agree that her rebellious ways weren't something new in a Disney princess. Regarding the damsel in distress part, I don't know, most protagonists are saved by others in their films on some occasion but they also do brave things, so that doesn't necessarily make them damsels in distress, in my opinion.

Well, to be fair, while the movie never confirms that the ending is their acutal wedding, at least Chip implies it with his "happily ever after" comment. But sure, it`s remarkable that Belle`s gown is the yellow one that she previously wore in her previous dance sequence and not a traditional wedding gown.

I never thought that could be their wedding. I'm more inclined to believe it's just a celebration, mainly because of the dress, but who knows, maybe that's what it was meant to be.

-Jasmine didn't get married at the end of Aladdin. I think they were celebrating her 16th birthday.

Well, at least that is true. Both John Musker and Ron Clements confirms this in their Audio Commentary for Aladdin.

Are you referring to the audio commentary on the Platinum Edition DVD or is there another one? Because I've checked it and they don't confirm anything there. This is what Ron Clements says in that audio commentary (John Musker doesn't make any comment about that):

"And here is where we leave. We have this thing. Are they getting married or not? There's a big celebration, but we'll never know for sure."

That comment actually makes me think it's the opposite; that it was intended to be their wedding, but they don't want to disappoint the fans who believe the real wedding is the one in Aladdin and the King of Thieves, so they basically say it's up to the viewers to decide whether they're getting married there or not.

I know there is a wedding in King of Thieves, but I don't consider the DTV sequels evidence the original film's ending wasn't a wedding since the DTV sequels' existence was never intended or planned. But if M&C say the ending is just a birthday celebration... Okay? I always took it as them flying off somewhere for their honeymoon.

That's exactly what I always thought was happening in that scene too. And to me it's a great way to end the film, to actually show that Jasmine gets to marry for love and Aladdin gets his happy ending. I don't consider the DTV sequels evidence either for the reason you said. And this doesn't prove anything, but most likely the creators of the live-action film must also believe they get married in the original, given that in the remake they have a wedding at the end as well.

[Redadoodles]

Jeffrey Katzenberg also mentioned that he was uncomfortable with having Jasmine be married at that age (maybe because of The Little Mermaid backlash over Ariel?) and that's why they also never gave away her age in Aladdin. It only came up later when the Disney princess franchise was created.

For Belle, I never saw that as their wedding either. Maybe it was supposed to be at first but they ran out of time for that final shot of the film and traced the Sleeping Beauty ending. That would explain why Belle is wearing the yellow again once more.

[D82]

Jeffrey Katzenberg also mentioned that he was uncomfortable with having Jasmine be married at that (maybe because of The Little Mermaid backlash over Ariel?) and that's why they also never gave away her age in Aladdin. It only came up later when the Disney princess franchise was created.

I didn't know Jeffrey Katzenberg said that. Maybe that's why the directors left it open to interpretation and don't make it clear in the film whether it's a wedding or not.

For Belle, I never saw that as their wedding either. Maybe it was supposed to be at first but they ran out of time for that final shot of the film and traced the Sleeping Beauty ending. That would explain why Belle is wearing the yellow again once more.

That seems a plausible explanation; if they ever planned to end the film with a wedding.

[Redadoodles]

Jeffrey Katzenberg also mentioned that he was uncomfortable with having Jasmine be married at that (maybe because of The Little Mermaid backlash over Ariel?) and that's why they also never gave away her age in Aladdin. It only came up later when the Disney princess franchise was created.

I didn't know Jeffrey Katzenberg said that. Maybe that's why the directors left it open to interpretation and don't make it clear in the film whether it's a wedding or not.

For Belle, I never saw that as their wedding either. Maybe it was supposed to be at first but they ran out of time for that final shot of the film and traced the Sleeping Beauty ending. That would explain why Belle is wearing the yellow again once more.

That seems a plausible explanation; if they ever planned to end the film with a wedding.

I'm pretty sure I read the trivia about Jeffrey in this book back in college.

[D82]

^Thanks for telling me. I don't own that book, but I found a scanned version on the Internet not long ago, so I'll check it out.

[D82]

I think I've already found it. Is this what you were referring to, Redadoodles? It's on page 41, by the way, in case anyone wants to check it in their copy of the book. Come to think of it, it's weird I've never wondered what age Jasmine would turn on her next birthday.

[Redadoodles]

Yep! That's it.

[DisneyFan09]

Are you referring to the audio commentary on the Platinum Edition DVD or is there another one? Because I've checked it and they don't confirm anything there. This is what Ron Clements says in that audio commentary (John Musker doesn't make any comment about that):

"And here is where we leave. We have this thing. Are they getting married or not? There's a big celebration, but we'll never know for sure."

That comment actually makes me think it's the opposite; that it was intended to be their wedding, but they don't want to disappoint the fans who believe the real wedding is the one in Aladdin and the King of Thieves, so they basically say it's up to the viewers to decide whether they're getting married there or not.

Yes, it was the the commentary from their Platinum Edition. And fair enough, you`ve probably right.

[Redadoodles]

You would think that Jasmine would wear something different than a replica of her traditional outfit if it actually was her wedding day. Agrabah is largely based on Bagdad and even though they took some (major) liberties on what a princess would wear in those days in Irak, her last outfit doesn't even come close to it.

[DisneyFan97]

Can’t deciede love both

[thedisneyspirit]

Hmmm a goddess vs football head. This is sooo hard to choose....NOT. I mean if you take away her hair, would anyone even think Merida is a girl??