More Turbulence At Disney

[PatrickvD]

also, tuesday's Box Office numbers push TPatF over $50 million with a $3.2 million tuesday gross. It pretty much zoomed past Treasure Planet and Home on the Range. It's having an excellent christmas performance and if Alvin and the Chipmunks won't affect it too much, it will gross over $100 million, making it one of only 3 hand drawn films to do so this entire DECADE. The other two being Lilo & Stitch and The Simpsons Movie.

[Jules]

Keep on discussing. I'm reading all the posts. Very interesting points, akhenaten.

And I don't see anyone rushing to stop me jumping to my death. Reliable bunch of friends you are.

[akhenaten]

i know you wont.cause u havent viewed frog and ud want to watch rapunzel before you die.

[pap64]

Keep on discussing. I'm reading all the posts. Very interesting points, akhenaten.

And I don't see anyone rushing to stop me jumping to my death. Reliable bunch of friends you are.

*Hey, Carter's going to jump

Oh yeah...

Don't jump....you have a lot to live for...you are young... don't waste your life...

*Reads the rest of the "What to say when dealing with a suicidal maniac"

...Nothing's working. Open fire on 3!

[robster16]

also, tuesday's Box Office numbers push TPatF over $50 million with a $3.2 million tuesday gross. It pretty much zoomed past Treasure Planet and Home on the Range. It's having an excellent christmas performance and if Alvin and the Chipmunks won't affect it too much, it will gross over $100 million, making it one of only 3 hand drawn films to do so this entire DECADE. The other two being Lilo & Stitch and The Simpsons Movie.

NowTHAT's the kinda news I like reading and love quoting!

[toonaspie]

here are a few thoughts that crossed my mind on this subject.

im appalled at how quick they are to dismiss a movie based by its two weeks performance.this shows how morally low they are, not having enough faith in their project and yet eager to earn instant reward despite the reputation they've subjected themselves to in this decade.this is not the 90s when animators can expect salary increase or bonuses easily.its a tougher market out there,the monopoly is gone.

disney marketing department should be restructured.this movie or any other non pixar movie/big epic live action movies do not receive the same promotion that they deserved.

let the high n mighty pixar produce a 2d animated film.pixar is practically untouchable by critics n adored by moviegoers based on their excellent track record.change their game and see if it will be embraced wholeheartedly by the crowd.then only we can say for sure if 2d is d.o.a.

scrap the 90s look.its becoming sterile.give them something edgier and more experimental/varied visual styles.go back to hand painting if u must.learn from the early 5,snow white,pinocchio,dumbo,bambi,fantasia.

stop going back to the 'roots' which is CLASSIC DISNEY MUSICAL,FAIRY TALE. although as much as we love them, this much touted RETURN offers very little innovation as it is no different from a tv special discussing disney legacy.we got it with enchanted and frog.heck, stop proclaiming fairy tale as your only legacy.songs dont have to be musicals all the time.

abolish the two studio system.i still think that WDAS are demoralized and feel small compared to their pixar peers.one factory working as one producing films based on the medium suited for each feature.call it the disney.pixar animation studios and slap ur steamboat mickey logo for all i care.the luxo lamp is patented anyway.

stop motion animations generally perform for half a hundred million but no one is dictating whether it should live or die, neither should 2d.enough with chant,or are artists now too lazy to draw by hand?

frog is playing steadily in cinemas,its not tumbling badly on its second week ala hyped features like twilight so unless everyone stop saying 'i'll watch this on dvd',it wont perform as u expect.im puzzled by disney fans who want this movie to be a hit so bad but do very little to support its run,there are a few i see running around this forum,so yeah, do your bit.

if disney expects to impress crowds with 2d hits, winnie the pooh is definitely the wrong choice. its not a unanimously favored title for all ages and if it is done, its simply IMHO, more to satisfy the studio's personal taste and product dept...so don't whine if it does much lesser than frog.

there's more, but they scurried at the back of my brain for now, waiting to pop out like mayon anytime.

You have pretty much got my viewpoint on the whole situation right on the money. LOL the irony I should've known this would happen. The suits set the bar waaaaaaaay too high for TPatF to bring in Fab Four numbers. Sounds to me like nobody over there is being realistic about the situation. WDFA cant just recover like that on a whim. It's a slow and steady process. I think PatF will break $100 million at least. Rapunzel may likely surprise people and do $200 million for all we know.

Some of the things I greatly appreciated about TPatF is where they DIDN'T try to replicate classical Disney roots: The change in setting and diverse characters, recreating the fairytale in their own original way, having Randy Newman do the music instead of Alan Menken (arguable as some as found that decision to be), doing less fluff with the characters. While TPatF might be the weakest of princess stories to come from Disney, it will at the very least stand out because its style is very unique compared to the other fairytales done by the studio.

Combining Pixar and WDAS does sound like an interesting idea. I would like to see the two studios do a little "staff mixing". I wouldn't exactly put all of the Pixar crew working on one WDAS film but maybe have a few of their supervising animators work alongside with some of the supervising animators from WDAS or pair up one of each to work on a film. You might get something interesting with that approach.

I do believe it's a VERY iffy decision on Disney's part to make their next WDFA 2D film a Pooh film. How different or better will it be in comparison to the countless films they released in theaters produced by Disney TV animation? Maybe the animation staff has a different view or vision of the Pooh franchise from what's been done on TV so maybe we'll get something completely different. We just wont know until it comes out I guess.

[Babaloo]

I agree with most things that akhenaten said, except I completely disagree about the whole musical fairy tale. I think that's what Disney does best and I think they should continue in that. I'm not saying stop doing original material, but they need to continue in musical fairy tales. I also think they should keep with the look of the 90's or something a bit more modern, not go back to older movie styles. I'm a Disney fan and love the looks of the older movies. But I don't see the newer generation liking this since they're so accustomed to CG. Fans and older people would like a step back like that, best the rest of the people wouldn't. And I think it would be nice if Disney got some writers from Pixar to come over or if the two crews mixed a bit, but I don't think I would like a merge of the two companies.

I aslo didn't think PatF was doing that bad! It's only been 2 real weeks since the movie has been out (during the limited release it only made $2,5 million) and it's practically already made half of the production costs (that doesn't include merchandise). I think it's on a good track. If this was the beginning of February then I would be worried, but we have awhile to see what happens. And that's good about the Tuesday sales, since here and I think everywhere in North America has cheap Tuesdays (tell me if I'm wrong because I've always wondered if everyone has cheap Tuesdays). I think $3.2 million is great!

[estefan]

In Canada, they also have cheap Tuesdays. When I went to see The Princess and the Frog yesterday, the whole screening was packed with people (unlike when I went to see it on opening day and it was just about eight other people in there). And then afterwards, there was already a long line-up for the next showing which was sold out.

[Barbossa]

I haven't had a chance to see Princess and the Frog yet and it looks like the earliest will be New Year's Day or Jan 2 as I'm working 8 days in a row after Christmas Day. Yes I will go see it. Yes Disney will get $9 out of me.

Factors for its underperformance could be...
Avatar
Economy
Christmas Carol (Princess should've swapped release dates with this one I think)

[Maerj]

I think that Disney caused this on themselves. No, its not the movies but the marketing and merchandising.

They came up with the "Disney Princesses" marketing gimmick, which has taken some of their all time great movies and is using them to sell dolls and junk. By doing this they have cheapened their own brand.

Instead of people looking at their animated classics as the works of art that they are, people look at them and say "Oh, that's a little girl's movie." Or "That's just a kid's movie." They are wrong. These movies weren't made just for 6 year old girls and they most certainly weren't made to sell junk.

Now I have no problem with merchandising, I undersatand that it can be just as important as selling movie tickets, sometimes even more so. But between things like that and a decade of cheapquels, they killed their own brand.

I think that their hand drawn animation can again be a driving force for the company. But they need to change the marketing. Do what they did with Beauty and the Beast. I recall them actually saying that this was being made for adults. They marketed it as a love story and people responded and went to see it. Advertise the nest one differently, make a movie that adults and kids will look at and say "Oh, I want to see that one!" Do that and you'll save 2D, keep up with your doing and it will exiled to DTV sequels, at best.

End sermon.

[Super Aurora]

I'm iffy on what to say on the situation. I think it's way too early to be judgmental on it's success. If Disney is expecting PatF to be Lion King or BatB success then they are having unrealistic expectations.

I do agree the the marketing seems crummy and it's release date being near Avatar was a huge mistake. Also in this day and age where kids, teens etc are in a technology era, it's harder to attract them to animated movies in theater same way it was back in early 90's.

While the movie was great, Disney overhyped it. I bet that putted people off in some way, and seeing the movie i could see them seeing that. Though I don't believe 2D is done for and I don't see this movie becoming failure. PatF probably like Cars- moderate to low high budget success but outstanding merchandising income.

As Winnie the pooh as next 2D movie, yea I can't understand this idea either. Especially since many of the Toon Disney studio's pooh movie had been release in theater with so-so to ok success and attraction factor. When this pooh movie comes out, many people will probably go "Eh? ANOTHER Pooh movie??"

As for shelving King of Elves, I don't understand the decision. If this article is whining about 2D's future, why are they putting away King of Elves which is 3D? Am I missing something here?

[disneyboy20022]

Typical of Current Disney......if it doesn't make enough money they abandon ship on the project and try to cash in the chips instead of riding it out or seeing what the DVD and Blu Ray sales do...

I also quite agree PATF should have had the November slot which Christmas Carol had and visa versa...this is just ......just like when they Did the Disney Scramble when Narnia: Prince Caspian didn't get as much of success as they thought.....

[nomad2010]

Here's how I see this whole situation:

First, Disney should have been smart enough to realize that PatF should have been released in November. It's a great time for family films and that was demonstrated by Enchanted 2 years ago. A Christmas Carol should have taken it's spot and they could have been much more profitable. As for this being the end of 2D animation at Disney, if they do end it again, I'm done with their new movies. Disney is Disney because of 2D. It's the only company that was ever successful in it (on a large scale). The thing is, PatF was never going to be the Lion King or Beauty and the Beast. It was a localized story. Not an epic. Therefore it never could reach that success. BUT, if they had went with Snow Queen first, which could easily become an epic it may have helped. I think what they need is to make Snow Queen the most perfect, epic romance. It needs to have music that screams classic Disney and that is instantly memorable. It needs to look like classic animation, Beauty and the Beast or Cinderella-eque characters. Not Princess and the Frog big eyes and exaggerated Lilo and Stich looks. This movie needs to be something beautiful that both the critics and families can enjoy. I truly believe if they can get a movie that critics ADORE out there, they will see a true rebirth. Marketing and timing play a large part, but it's also the film itself and just how extraordinary it can be. I pray that Snow Queen is that movie. The movie that reignites the worlds love of Disney. Everyone loves Disney but they just aren't excited about it anymore because we haven't had a true classic since Lion King. Princess and the Frog got close, very close and will most likely get up there after about ten years but as of now, they need a crowd and critic pleasing film that is truly emotionally charged, one that will make you cry, and cheer...one to show the world just how amazing Disney is and how Disney, that Disney we knew and loved growing up, is still a part of our lives today.

[magicalwands]

Disney is always doing this. They always panic at how little revenue something rakes in during the first hours/days/weeks. It is just the usual paranoid Disney. They need to realize they need to rebuild their studio and that will take a long time. They need to remember no one gets to their dream career in a day. It happened with Miyazaki, Pixar, Rowling, and Walt himself.

As much as I hated how formulaic the films in the 90's were, maybe PATF would have not been compared to them had it not followed the formula? But then I look to Ghibli and Pixar and people are constantly comparing their new films to their previous films so I'm wrong on that account. But, critics and movie-goers need to remember that newer films don't always spell out better than old ones. The only thing PATF is missing, which the fab four have, is time. It allowed audiences to watch their favorite songs over and over; they don't realize they won't memorize the song lyrics on the first viewing. When Toy Story 3 comes out next year, it will feel very off and weird because the first two were so long ago. This has happened with PATF because we watched and know the fab four so well.

I hear it time and time again from my orchestra teacher at high school. He said, "We play not to fill our school's shelves with trophies, but to fill your shelves with great recordings." So, the artists and filmmakers at Disney have to get it nailed in their brain they cannot please everyone. Yes you can hit a high majority, but it shouldn't think like that either.

For those who are saying a Pixar artist should come over to Disney to make a 2D film, I don't think that will help. Disney artists are just as talented as Pixar artists. The only difference is the studio. I imagined myself working at Disney and they have the weight of Walt's films and the fab four to live up to. It must be very hard to get rid of that feeling.

I hope I don't jinx it, but I know with Lasseter in charge, 2D is not going anywhere. PATF is a very strong movie. The folks at Disney are stronger than ever. Back on Home on the Range, they were scared to their wits with computers replacing them. But this time, they have the chance and spirit to fight back.

[PatrickvD]

you people clearly haven't learned from 2008.

Bolt was released in November and it was SLAUGHTERED by Twilight. This year New Moon would have completely wiped out TPATF if they had gone with a November release.

A Christmas Carol bounced back because of its Christmas theme that ensured it a strong holiday run. TPATF would not have bounced back.

[Super Aurora]

you people clearly haven't learned from 2008.

Bolt was released in November and it was SLAUGHTERED by Twilight. This year New Moon would have completely wiped out TPATF if they had gone with a November release.

A Christmas Carol bounced back because of its Christmas theme that ensured it a strong holiday run. TPATF would not have bounced back.

This is why I always thought may/june releases are best for Disney animated films as the blockbusters don't usually hit theaters till late june-july august, and Nov/DEC also filled with highly anticipated movies.

Lion King was released in June as well as Pocohantas and HoND.
Sure Little Mermaid, BatB, and Aladdin were released in Nov, but that was a time when not many animated competition was around, as well as facing off against mega blockbuster movie like Twilight is today.

[DisneyJedi]

Okay, now I'm REALLY worried! While TPatF is slowly earning back money, I actually AM scared that it might flop.

[Mooky]

let the high n mighty pixar produce a 2d animated film.pixar is practically untouchable by critics n adored by moviegoers based on their excellent track record.change their game and see if it will be embraced wholeheartedly by the crowd.then only we can say for sure if 2d is d.o.a.

Thank you! I've been saying this for years, not because I hate CG or Pixar, but because even blind can see people's preferences have changed: CG rules with audiences and there's no denying it. It pains me when Pixar folks blame Disney's downfall and low box-office receipts on bad stories - let me tell you something, there was NOTHING wrong with Treasure Planet's story. Or Atlantis'. Or Brother Bear's. Or TENG's. If anything, these films showed Disney can think outside the box. And until I see Pixar proving otherwise with their own hand-drawn feature, Lasseter can shove his "Story's the king" mantra where the sun don't shine.

[pvdfan]

Here is what I think is the most important park to remember: the movie suffers from a lack of gimmicks. The loss of IMAX and 3-D does hurt movie numbers a lot. For me, had it been in 3-D, the would have got me to buy a 13 dollar ticket. As it is now, I spent $4 to see it at a cheaper theater. Right there is a $18 loss off just 2 people. This also makes people think "it's not in (insert theater gimmick,) I'll just wait for it to come out on DVD." Also, each week the movie is out, the smaller the cut Disney gets and the large the cut the theater gets off ticket sales.

The thing is, the shareholders and analyst could care less what the film does 1-10 years from now. They see a movie that, considering production cost, is bombing in domestic numbers. You see movies all the time now with production cost a quarter of PATF making over 100 million in 3 or so weeks.

I fear Disney was expecting the movie to do Aladdin style numbers. The only problem is A)the story is not as well known and B) the kind of forgot they have to market the heck out of the movie to get those numbers. So I see the toy sales and future home video sales being great, but this quarter will under-perform

[WDWLocal]

I think that Disney caused this on themselves. No, its not the movies but the marketing and merchandising.

They came up with the "Disney Princesses" marketing gimmick, which has taken some of their all time great movies and is using them to sell dolls and junk. By doing this they have cheapened their own brand.

Instead of people looking at their animated classics as the works of art that they are, people look at them and say "Oh, that's a little girl's movie." Or "That's just a kid's movie." They are wrong. These movies weren't made just for 6 year old girls and they most certainly weren't made to sell junk.

I disagree with these overly-negative accusations and assumptions.

Look out guys...with Roy gone now, Disney really is going to go to hell in a hand basket.

Please don't start with the doom and gloom predictions.

Just because Roy is gone does not mean that the company is going to die with him.