More Turbulence At Disney

[Neal]

Some news from Disney via the TAG Blog:

Sounds like some people are grumbling about the under-performance of Princess/Frog and question the future of 2D again - possibly that "Snow Queen" will be the official last hand-drawn film (the irony - from "Snow White" being the first to "Snow Queen" being the last).

Sounds like "King of the Elves" is done for good, several comments under the article state that it has been shelved permanently.

Also, sounds like Rich Moore (director of 17 Simpsons episodes and supervising director of 72 Futurama episodes) is going to have a CGI film he's planned made at Disney.

Today was my hat building day, where some lead animators are limbering up for Winnie the Pooh, and most everyone else is plunging into work on Rapunzel.

Up on the second floor, I ran into a down-hearted artist, recently finished with The Princess and the Frog. He told me this:

"I'm not happy with the way TP&TF is performing. They should have released it away from all the blockbusters. I'm disappointed. It's grosses just haven't been as good as we hoped. And after we finish with the Winnie the Pooh feature I don't know if Disney will do anymore hand-drawn pictures" ....
Me, I think that the Mouse will be producing several more hand-drawn epics, but I'm far from an expert. However, a long-term Disney veteran with an office on the third floor agrees with me.

"They've done real well with merchandise for The Princess and the Frog, and that stuff is important. They've got Pooh coming up, and I know that there's another hand-drawn feature, Snow Queen, after that.
I'm thinking that as long as the company can hold costs down, and the grosses are enough so that the studio doesn't lose thirty or forty million dollars, they'll be making hand-drawn features for awhile" ...
I'm not certain that a final verdict on hand-drawn vs. c.g.i. has been rendered, although a c.g. modeler I encountered on the second floor believes the jury has handed in the envelope. ("Look at the last seven years, man. It's pretty conclusive. Computer animation just makes more money.")

I donno. Maybe hand-drawn features are like like Hollywood westerns: Nobody wants to watch one ... until they do. (See "Wolves, Dances With" and "Yuma, 3:10 To".) And then there's the always next Simpsons movie. I seriously doubt that will be rendered in computer graphics.

Posted by Steve Hulett at 2:26 PM

5 comments:

Anonymous said...
Honestly, Im more worried about the survival of CG at Disney.

King of the Elves was the next big CG flick, and now that that's canned, and Rich Moore's project under wraps in terms of style, who knows if there will be another CG movie.

Maybe they'll keep their animators busy on Prep and Landing sequels and leave the CG features up to Pixar.

Unless Rapunzel does gangbusters, of course. Which it could...
Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:01:00 PM

Anonymous said...
Hey, if they're as good as the first one, I'd be down for more "Prep and Landing" specials.
Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:37:00 PM

Steve Hulett said...
Having talked to people who know something about Moore's project, (For the record, I know zip), I'm pretty sure they'll be making this C.G. feature.

I just saw Prep and Landing and thought it was good. Yes, this is a TV half-hour, but the talent delivered. And talent isn't exclusive to one studio.
Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:38:00 PM

Michael said...
Has Elves really been permanently shelved? I hear someone say retooling, then someone say "cancelled". Of course, six of one, half dozen of the other sometimes...

As for Princess, I think it'll be fine. It'll stick around for a long time, it's selling a TON of merch, and it'll sell a lot of DVDs down the road. And all the kiddies will dress like Tiana and head for WDW, and that's what corporate wants in the end, eh?
Tuesday, December 22, 2009 6:41:00 PM

Anonymous said...
Has Elves really been permanently shelved?

Yes.
Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:28:00 PM

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Rich Moore:

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[Babaloo]

I don't see why people automatically pair performance of a movie with medium used. Like people say CG makes more money. I don't think that has anything to do with the performance. IMO it all depends on how the company advertises, the period the film is released, word of mouth, etc. I really hope that animator was wrong in saying that Winnie the Pooh might be the last 2d animated movie. I love traditionally animated films, and Disney, of all companies, shouldn't be the one to end it. I'm just scared that Rapunzel will do really well, and Disney, not using their heads, will think "Oh the CG movie made more money, so let's stop 2d animation!" I'm not saying I don't want Rapunzel to do well, but I hope Disney doesn't get the wrong idea.

I also really hope PatF does much better in the coming weeks. I don't see why it wouldn't since I went to see it again today and it was packed (which it wasn't when it first came out). Hopefully it will pull an Aladdin and do well during Christmas. Merchandise is selling well so that's a positive to the list... But they did release the movie during a bad time with Avatar and Chipmunks coming out. But oh well...Here's to better luck!

But I also really hope that King of the Elves isn't shelved. I'll admit I wasn't too excited for it, but it was something different and I would have like to see what Disney did with it.

[Neal]

Well, we already thought we had said goodbye to hand-drawn once - so this time would be easier! "Snow Queen" would be a more memorable end than "Home on the Range" (although, I liked that film fine.)

Disney shouldn't decide anything until the DVD is out - theater-going may be stalled due to the economy, but a DVD - costing as much as a theater trip - lasts so many more repeat views. So DVD sales may be really good!

I was really excited for "King of the Elves" and would hate to see it shelved!

[Jules]

I'm jumping off a cliff.

Bye UD.

[Jules]

Oh, and King of the Elves has been taken off the WDAS website so I think we can safely assume it's history.

Shame.

[robster16]

King of the Elves does indeed appear to have been taken down from the disneyanimation.com website. Must have happened recently, cause I could have sworn that it was there a few days ago...

I would find it stupid if Disney abandoned 2D animation after having given us so much speeches about this being a return to the core of the company, the legacy of the early days and how the company has come full circle, then release 1 2D animated movie and saying...well, tough luck, that's all folks.

I'm sure we'll be seeing more 2D movies and I'm sure there will remain to be a GREAT deal of interest in the movies. And to then... again... write the success or lack of desired success off on the type of animation is quite frankly bullshit! It's about the stories and if people want to see that particular story!

PATF is hardly underperforming, I wonder how it'll do internationally, the merchandise is flying out the stores and Tiana has already become a spokesperson to an entirely new target audience for Disney. I'd say TPATF is a HUGE success, especially since it's the first step back on the only true and right path for the company! Give it some time...

[PatrickvD]

At least wait until Christmas is over. It's just started making some money yesterday.

[Mayhem]

Yeah, I was going to comment similar... wait until the international performances come in and then comment about how well it's doing...

[Neal]

Damn it! I wonder how it could have gotten so bad? Does Disney generally announce films formally before canceling? I mean - Lasseter announced this April '08 and they showed a logo and everything!

I was really looking forward to this!

[tlc38tlc38]

Look out guys...with Roy gone now, Disney really is going to go to hell in a hand basket.

[goofystitch]

Plenty of Disney classics underperformed in their initial release, like Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland and Sleeping Beauty. The box office numbers shouldn't be that important because Disney is going to continue to make money off of this film for decades.

And try going to any store right now to buy a Princess Tiana doll. You can't. They are completely sold out in stores and online, meaning the merchandise is selling better than expected. While the film might be a cash hog at the moment, the merchandise is a cash cow and Disney can redistribute the revenue however they please.

[Margos]

I don't see why two media can't just live together in peaceful harmony. 2D animation is beautiful when done correctly. CG is beautiful when done correctly. So do them both correctly, and you'll have beauty leaking from all pores!

[disneyboy20022]

Look out guys...with Roy gone now, Disney really is going to go to hell in a hand basket.

I'm afraid of that becoming even more a reality with this news....

Honestly though...we can't just sit back and expect an excutive to save classic Disney animation each time...Roy has done it until he could no longer do it.....now I think its up to the fans to preserve his memory by standing up for what he believed and and how he, and his Uncle Walt would be very objectionable to this.....and get petitions signed and all that and by golly Im going to See PATF for a second time this weekend....and possibly a third time the first weekend of 2010....

So Bascily like like Roy did so many years ago...let's carry on what he was about and do what Roy would be doing right now..if he were alivee for us to get the attention right letters email and petitions and call Disney and do what Roy Did....not once but twice but now we can do it so like Roy did twice....LET'SAVE DISNEY not only for us...but future generations

ARE YOU WITH ME TO SAVE DISNEY

[steven132]

I was able to meet John Musker and Ron Clemets at a panel discussion over the weekend and they seemed bright about the future. They mentioned they had recently ran by John Lasseter a few new proposals for 2D features

[Cordy_Biddle]

The movie hasn't even been internationally released yet - don't those sales figures count for anything? Obviously not. And what about the DVD/Blu-ray sales, merchandise sales and the soundtrack? I suppose that's all a mere pittance...

[jpanimation]

Lasseter is in charge and I don't think he's going to let traditional animation die again. While I don't think The Princess and the Frog will preform that great (I completely blame whoever scheduled it's release with Chipmunks and Avatar), I have a feeling the DVD sales will be stellar and the merchandise sales are already great (Disney park tie-ins will also be great, unlike their computer animated efforts, as the characters are just more appealing). This movie would have to be a pretty big flop for the higher up executives to risk ticking off Lasseter by forcing him to close down 2D. He's already said he wants the two styles to coexist and that he's very happy with the way The Princess and the Frog turned out.

Right now, I'm sure they're disappointed but they'll need to quickly get over it an start thinking about Rapunzel's release and any conflicts it may have being around potential blockbusters (come on Disney, lets learn from our mistakes and not cry about them). The last thing we need is a blame game that results in tradition animation being blamed instead of the scheduling.

[PatrickvD]

We can't keep blaming it on the release date. Up had MUCH bigger competition.

If I have to blame someone or something, it would have to be the marketing department. The trailers were mediocre and where the heck were the posters? They were lame.

I think the marketing department needs a complete overhaul. Just look at the posters and dvd covers. It's all so ***damn unappealing it almost makes me wonder why I'm a Disney fan. Disney's marketing department is slowly becoming the worst and least innovative in Hollywood.

[The_Iceflash]

@PatrickvD: I agree about the marketing. I was surprised about how small the marketing was for it. I even kept asking myself "are they going to start advertising this yet?" I think that even though releasing it with other blockbusters may have have affected sales, compared to the marketing I've seen for the other movies, they could have done much better. Compare the marketing for this to the marketing of the new Chipmunks movie.

[PatrickvD]

@PatrickvD: I agree about the marketing. I was surprised about how small the marketing was for it. I even kept asking myself "are they going to start advertising this yet?" I think that even though releasing it with other blockbusters may have have affected sales, compared to the marketing I've seen for the other movies, they could have done much better. Compare the marketing for this to the marketing of the new Chipmunks movie.

agreed 100%.

As for the cancellation of King of the Elves. There could be another reason. Looking at the upcoming slate KotE was the least merchandise friendly film. Maybe Disney is simply going with films that are easy to sell merchandise of.

TPatF merchandise is selling out so in that aspect the film is a big moneymaker. Much like Cars was a Box Office disappointment, but a huge merchandise goldmine.

I also think it's wise to just wait and see how christmas will treat this film. It'll probably make over $100 million due to a christmas boost. In the end it will be just as successful as Bolt and Meet the Robinsons.

[akhenaten]

here are a few thoughts that crossed my mind on this subject.

im appalled at how quick they are to dismiss a movie based by its two weeks performance.this shows how morally low they are, not having enough faith in their project and yet eager to earn instant reward despite the reputation they've subjected themselves to in this decade.this is not the 90s when animators can expect salary increase or bonuses easily.its a tougher market out there,the monopoly is gone.

disney marketing department should be restructured.this movie or any other non pixar movie/big epic live action movies do not receive the same promotion that they deserved.

let the high n mighty pixar produce a 2d animated film.pixar is practically untouchable by critics n adored by moviegoers based on their excellent track record.change their game and see if it will be embraced wholeheartedly by the crowd.then only we can say for sure if 2d is d.o.a.

scrap the 90s look.its becoming sterile.give them something edgier and more experimental/varied visual styles.go back to hand painting if u must.learn from the early 5,snow white,pinocchio,dumbo,bambi,fantasia.

stop going back to the 'roots' which is CLASSIC DISNEY MUSICAL,FAIRY TALE. although as much as we love them, this much touted RETURN offers very little innovation as it is no different from a tv special discussing disney legacy.we got it with enchanted and frog.heck, stop proclaiming fairy tale as your only legacy.songs dont have to be musicals all the time.

abolish the two studio system.i still think that WDAS are demoralized and feel small compared to their pixar peers.one factory working as one producing films based on the medium suited for each feature.call it the disney.pixar animation studios and slap ur steamboat mickey logo for all i care.the luxo lamp is patented anyway.

stop motion animations generally perform for half a hundred million but no one is dictating whether it should live or die, neither should 2d.enough with chant,or are artists now too lazy to draw by hand?

frog is playing steadily in cinemas,its not tumbling badly on its second week ala hyped features like twilight so unless everyone stop saying 'i'll watch this on dvd',it wont perform as u expect.im puzzled by disney fans who want this movie to be a hit so bad but do very little to support its run,there are a few i see running around this forum,so yeah, do your bit.

if disney expects to impress crowds with 2d hits, winnie the pooh is definitely the wrong choice. its not a unanimously favored title for all ages and if it is done, its simply IMHO, more to satisfy the studio's personal taste and product dept...so don't whine if it does much lesser than frog.



there's more, but they scurried at the back of my brain for now, waiting to pop out like mayon anytime.