Dumbo: Special Edition Blu-ray and DVD Discussion

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:38 am

Hello. Do you remember me? I'm the grumpy one. Not the dwarf Grumpy. But grumpy by nature. And I'm afraid I'm going to have a little grump now.

I really think a lot of people here are going to be very disappointed with Dumbo's release, for a few reasons.

Firstly, despite Dumbo getting a fair number of Laserdisc releases, I can't actually find any with any supplements, unlike a lot of Disney films. Thus Masterpiece edition seems to be the last Laserdisc released in the US - http://disneyinfo.nl/laserdiscdetail.php?film=223 - and its disappointingly bare bones. They did release a 50th Anniversary edition, but I've drawn a blank at trying to find any useful information on that.

Secondly, Dumbo's had 2 US DVD releases (plus another 3 non-US releases, including one bare-bones release elsewhere). It would appear that on the face of it, Disney isn't holding back substantial materials which could be imported to the new 2 disc edition. The last DVD had substantial supplements (commentary, documentary, archive clips, classic shorts and a reasonable gallery compared to many others. And as previously noted, there appears to be nothing from a previous Laserdisc release Disney can easily import.

Thirdly, while us simple mortals don't know for sure what goes on "behind the scenes" at Disney, this does appear to be a somewhat late addition to the range. You almost get the impression its a stop-gap release, pushed up, down or around because circumstance has dictated the planned release wasn't ready. Remember what happened last time something similar happened?

Yes, Peter Pan: So-Called Platinum Edition, I'm talking about you. You'd do well to keep your head down at the back of the class. Maybe someday people will forget about you and your recycled supplements, short new additions, cheap "read-along" space filler and most damning of all, unforgivable lack of the "Walt Disney Christmas Special" TV special.

Does anyone really expect Dumbo to be that different?

On the plus side, I think we can assume this will come to Blu-ray as well as DVD and if so, this could be DVDs saviour. I can't see Disney releasing a 2 disc Blu-ray without the now customary Cine-Explore feature which may result in a newly recorded commentary but at the very least should result in Disney reopening it's archive for new clips, artwork and photos. Likewise, I'm sure Disney will want to boast about a Hi-Def documentary for the Blu-ray, so it's likely a new one will be recorded.

But on the downside (although I admit I could be wrong, given the wonderful Hi-Def archive footage on the Sleeping Beauty release) those wanting The Reluctant Dragon may be disappointed if the film doesn't exist in a format suitable for Blu-ray release.

But do we really want that? Surely a large percentage of people here interested in The Reluctant Dragon will have it already due to the Walt Disney Treasures release?

I fail to see why double-dipping content for Blu-ray release is bad, but double-dipping content for DVD release is good. Which of course brings me to my final musing (which is far from new):

I really have to question if this release is "worth while" at this time. I'm sure with care, attention and time Disney could, if they wanted to, produce a definitive Dumbo release. But does it have to be now, so soon after the Big Top release? When films like Hercules are still available in crappy non-anamorphic format, I really have to question Disney's logic. Presumably, Hercules and a few others (Hunchback, Home on the Range, Treasure Planet - Hey, does Disney have something against the letter 'H') would not only be easier to source (due to being digitally stored in CAPS files) but also supplemental features would be more abundant. It's a crime such modern films have never had the 2 disc treatment when they would have been made with Laserdisc and/or DVD supplements in mind.

The_Iceflash · Post by **The_Iceflash** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:43 am

2099net wrote: On the plus side, I think we can assume this will come to Blu-ray as well as DVD and if so, this could be DVDs saviour.

What do you mean?

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:07 am

I think, if Disney are to release a 2 disc Blu-ray Platinum or Diamond edition, it may force them to actually put some work in. New supplements in HD, a new commentary for the Cine-Explore... Justifying 2 BD discs is hard, especially for a film only lasting just over an hour unless you have substantial supplements. (I personally don't think the BD release of Pinocchio justified 2 discs, But Sleeping Beauty, especially with its HD archive supplements, did).

It depends. You may have the opinion Disney would have done this regardless for another Dumbo release, but looking at their recent single disc special editions (Robin Hood, Aristocats, Oliver and Company) and the mess that was the Peter Pan: Platinum Edition, I'm not so sure that they would.

blackcauldron85 · Post by **blackcauldron85** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:05 am

I think that Disney would have to find something in order to "fill" two discs. I think that at least one new documentary has to be a given, if not more than one. What I'm doing a bad job of trying to get at is, since Platinum Edition releases are always 2 discs, and I'm guessing that the last 2 US Dumbo releases don't have enough material to be stretched across 2 discs, people should be happy that it seems like Disney will have to give us some new bonus material in order to satisfy the release as a Platinum Edition.

I don't have the Special Edition of Peter Pan, and I never did, so I was pleased with the PE of that film, but some of the material had been available elsewhere.

Ugh, my brain is mushy right now so I'm not making much sense. Could all of the Peter Pan PE material fit on one disc? For Dumbo, Disney could port over some bonus features, like the "Celebrating Dumbo" featurette and the game (there's a game, right?), but I think that Disney has to get some new material in there to make putting Dumbo on 2 discs worthwhile. Surely we'll get a music video, but I have hopes that there will be a new documentary of some sort, since there really has not been (at least in the US) a making-of documentary for the film.

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:11 am

blackcauldron85 wrote:Ugh, my brain is mushy right now so I'm not making much sense. Could all of the Peter Pan PE material fit on one disc? For Dumbo, Disney could port over some bonus features, like the "Celebrating Dumbo" featurette and the game (there's a game, right?), but I think that Disney has to get some new material in there to make putting Dumbo on 2 discs worthwhile. Surely we'll get a music video, but I have hopes that there will be a new documentary of some sort, since there really has not been (at least in the US) a making-of documentary for the film.

I personally think all the Peter Pan material could have fitted on one disc, yes. Don't forget the movie was on twice! (Admittedly at a lower bit rate for the read-along). IIRC, take away the virtual puppy set-top game thingy, and 101 Dalmatians would have fitted on one disc too. Disney were OK releasing Peter Pan without a major new documentary.

As for Dumbo, it appears the Platinum line is being somewhat devauled. You can't say its for the best of the best and then keep adding to it. It just becomes meaningless ultimately. So who's to say a chunk of the 2nd disc would become a digital copy or similar, just like Disney's current day and date 2 disc DVD releases? Also, as I said before, this Dumbo release seems a little rushed to market, just like Peter Pan's was. So who knows how much time will be spent on it.

tlc38tlc38 · Post by **tlc38tlc38** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:08 pm

David S. wrote:PS.The part about the "Disney View" colored bars for people who don't like pillarboxed "black bars". made me laugh! The irony, of course, is that IMO the black bars are actually less noticible than bars with changing artwork would be - especially if one turns out the lights to create theatre-like conditions.

I don't get the "Disney view" feature either. It's plain stupid. I guess some people just think their entire screen has to be filled with something, no matter what it is.

CampbellzSoup · Post by **CampbellzSoup** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:11 pm

It's actually quite good, and the artwork is NOT distracting at all...it actually goes with the film, and adds to the experience.

tlc38tlc38 · Post by **tlc38tlc38** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:16 pm

2099net wrote:As for Dumbo, it appears the Platinum line is being somewhat devauled. You can't say its for the best of the best and then keep adding to it. It just becomes meaningless ultimately.

I think Dumbo should have been added to the line from the get go. However, I don't think Fantasia 2000 should ever be added to the line, it's good but not good enough to be there, IMO.

CampbellzSoup · Post by **CampbellzSoup** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:27 pm

Dumbo's not good enough to be there either :\

tlc38tlc38 · Post by **tlc38tlc38** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:07 am

From the looks of it on the flier in Snow White, Dumbo is being released on 1-disc Blu-ray and 2-disc DVD. This really kinda lets me down. I was hoping for a 2-disc Blu-ray jammed with cool features. I guess not. The main feature I'm hoping is there that hasn't ever been put on any release of Dumbo is the Alison Krauss "Baby Mine" music video.

CampbellzSoup · Post by **CampbellzSoup** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:15 am

I hope the picture is much more clear when it comes out on Blu the trailer for it looked horrible!

tlc38tlc38 · Post by **tlc38tlc38** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:16 am

CampbellzSoup wrote:I hope the picture is much more clear when it comes out on Blu the trailer for it looked horrible!

It looked like the original, I'm hoping they can clean it up nicely.

jpanimation · Post by **jpanimation** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:59 am

I think it was goofystitch who said that the trailers always use footage from the previous releases and are not representative of the upcoming releases (referring to the colors in the Beauty and the Beast trailer). I sure hope so as the film looked quite dirty in the trailer. Hopefully they give it the Pinocchio treatment.

goofystitch · Post by **goofystitch** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:48 am

tlc38tlc38 wrote:From the looks of it on the flier in Snow White, Dumbo is being released on 1-disc Blu-ray and 2-disc DVD. This really kinda lets me down. I was hoping for a 2-disc Blu-ray jammed with cool features. I guess not. The main feature I'm hoping is there that hasn't ever been put on any release of Dumbo is the Alison Krauss "Baby Mine" music video.

I keep trying to explain to people that the stigma that 2-disc = better needs to be abandoned when dealing with Blu-Ray. The reason is that Blu-Ray discs hold much more than DVDs can, especially when it comes to standard definition content. Disney doesn't usually do this, but they have in the past. The Nightmare Before Christmas got a 2-disc DVD set, but the Blu-Ray was 1-disc. All of the bonus features from the previous release were done in SD and the new HD content still had room on the first disc. Warner Bros. is famous for this. The Wizard of Oz just came out on Blu-Ray. The DVD equivalent was a 4-disc set, but all of it fit onto 2 Blu-Ray discs without compressing anything. All of the Harry Potter films were 2-disc DVDs, but the Blu-Rays are 1-disc with all of the same bonus features.

Another thing to consider is Dumbo's short run time. The 2-disc DVD might not even need to be 2-discs, but might have been done to get current owners to rebuy it. Disney has released a few less-than-necessary 2-disc sets before that could have fit on 1 DVD disc.

jpanimation wrote:I think it was goofystitch who said that the trailers always use footage from the previous releases and are not representative of the upcoming releases (referring to the colors in the Beauty and the Beast trailer). I sure hope so as the film looked quite dirty in the trailer. Hopefully they give it the Pinocchio treatment.

Yeah. Most trailers for upcoming Disney rereleases use footage from the previous restoration, meaning what you see in the Dumbo trailer is the way it looked on the Big Top Edition. Even when they do their side-by-side comparisons of the restoration to how it looked before, those are faked. They intentionally make the "before" shot look awful and usually enhance the footage for that clip for the "after." Luckily they didn't try to pull that one on the Dumbo trailer.

Disney should be stepping up to the plate with this restoration. If you go on Blu-Ray review sites, Disney has an almost spotless record for giving these films the best restorations on Blu-Ray. I don't think they would want to tarnish that now, especially not with Fantasia on the Blu-Ray release schedule for May 4th, just 3 months later.

As for Beauty and the Beast, I mainly just mentioned that the Blu-Ray might not only use the Special Edition colors, as in perhaps they will also put on the original theatrical version. But the Special Edition will no doubt be on there and should look exactly like the trailer, which I thought looked amazing.

PixarFan2006 · Post by **PixarFan2006** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:58 pm

I saw the trailer for Dumbo on my Snow White Blu-Ray last night and it did not look so good compared to Snow White's picture. I really hope they clean up the transfer for Dumbo as well. I will get this on Blu-Ray for sure if they do.

Old Fish Tale · Post by **Old Fish Tale** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:40 pm

Trailer!

JustOneBite87 · Post by **JustOneBite87** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:58 pm

tlc38tlc38 wrote:
CampbellzSoup wrote:I hope the picture is much more clear when it comes out on Blu the trailer for it looked horrible!
It looked like the original, I'm hoping they can clean it up nicely.

I'm sure this will be a restoration in league with the DE's judging by the information presented in the trailer.

This is another reason why I'm such a huge fan of high definition video. Titles with spotty remastering like Robin Hood or Fox and the Hound will eventually get polished up the way they should be instead of being cast aside in favor of what Disney considers "better" films.

Blu-Ray evens the playing field in the restoration world

JDCB1986 · Post by **JDCB1986** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:42 am

JustOneBite87 wrote:
tlc38tlc38 wrote: It looked like the original, I'm hoping they can clean it up nicely.
I'm sure this will be a restoration in league with the DE's judging by the information presented in the trailer.

This is another reason why I'm such a huge fan of high definition video. Titles with spotty remastering like Robin Hood or Fox and the Hound will eventually get polished up the way they should be instead of being cast aside in favor of what Disney considers "better" films.

Blu-Ray evens the playing field in the restoration world

I remember reading somewhere they said they have been working on restoring the whole animated canon and that at the time of the interview they were "starting from the beginning."

Which would make sense... look at the Blu-ray's from '08-'10, 4 of the titles (Snow White, Pinocchio, Fantasia and Dumbo) happen to be the first 4 in the animated classics canon.

I'd be willing to bet Bambi, Cinderella, Alice In Wonderland and MAYYYBE even the package films have or are currently receiving restorations in prep for an eventual re-release.

With this new process and having the negatives scanned at an 8K resolution (nearly 8x larger than Blu-ray is capable of showing,) a proper restoration from the original negatives could last Disney for several years and formats, much longer than restorations of the past.

If they restored all of the animated classics from their original negatives, they would have no need to restore them again until a format was available that is capable of showing better than 8K resolution, which will be a VERY long time.

Coolmanio · Post by **Coolmanio** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:00 am

Looks like we got some BONUS FEATURES coming! Very nice!

DUMBO SPECIAL EDITION BONUS COMPILATION - MOUSE'S TALE [Additional material]

00:05:20:02 (DUMBO SPECIAL EDITION BONUS COMPILATION - MOUSE'S TALE)
00:03:51:10 (DUMBO SPECIAL EDITION BONUS COMPILATION - DELETED SONG)
00:26:56:11 (DUMBO SPECIAL EDITION BONUS COMPILATION - TAKING FLIGHT)
00:02:59:14 (DUMBO SPECIAL EDITION BONUS COMPILATION - RITES OF PASSAGE)

yukitora · Post by **yukitora** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:08 am

Are these new features?

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