Some Black Cauldron questions

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I won't comment on exactly what might have been cut from TBC, but this title is one of few Disney "Classics" that could really need a "serious special edition" on DVD. All the cut footage included and the real story of its troublesome creation. The problem is just that it'd probably have to be done by The Criterion Collection and not Disney...

[Fflewduur]

Wow--a Criterion Collection Black Cauldron would be something else.

A note for all TBC fans: in case you didn't hear, author Lloyd Alexander passed away in May at the age of 83. He wrote a lot of good books, but the Prydain Chronicles will always hold a special place in my heart.

[DisneyJedi]

Bump!

I really REALLY want to see this movie uncut! What're they afraid of, huh?

[tlc38tlc38]

2010 will be TBC's 25th anniversary. If Disney is going to release a new special edition DVD/Blu this would be the best time to do it. However, we all know how Disney is....so, let's hope, that's all we can do.

[Elladorine]

Given the attitude at the time, I've heard it's possible that the deleted footage may not even exist anymore.

[Jack Skellington]

I would love nothing more than an uncut TBC Bluray(look at my siggy for pete's sake), it's one of the Disney movies that needs a restoration BIG time, do you guys think that the deleted scenes are still in the disney vault ?

[blackcauldron85]

I'm hopeful that the deleted footage still exists, but I'm just trying to stay "glass half full" here. I mean, I know that back in the day, cels were sold off, but not in the '80s...so what I'm trying to say is that I can't imagine them just throwing out the cels, ya know?

I can see Disney putting out a 25th Anniversary edition in 2011, since they're usually off on their anniversary release dates...

[drfsupercenter]

I think Disney just forgot all about The Black Cauldron... it was a flop, after all.

Though I agree there needs to be a new DVD.

I know Korea got a NTSC DVD that was remastered and anamorphic... which I plan to import as soon as I can FIND it (Thanks to a certain Korean DVD site that doesn't exist anymore... )
I know France also got one that's in PAL.

[tlc38tlc38]

I think Disney just forgot all about The Black Cauldron... it was a flop, after all.

Though I agree there needs to be a new DVD.

I know Korea got a NTSC DVD that was remastered and anamorphic... which I plan to import as soon as I can FIND it (Thanks to a certain Korean DVD site that doesn't exist anymore... )
I know France also got one that's in PAL.

I don't think Disney really forgot about it. They just don't give it the respect it deserves (i.e.: Make Mine Music, Fun and Fancy Free, Melody Time, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, The Rescuers). Someday we'll get a new restored version...they just love making us wait because they know we will.

[Neal]

Disney's Child Abuse - an in-depth look tonight on Dateline.

Sure, you've heard all about Mickey, Winnie, Snow White and all their perfect siblings...but Disney's got a few skeletons in the closet. Disney's had a few imperfect children, as well, and their story isn't so pretty...


(I suck at forum comedy )

[Jack Skellington]

tlc38tlc38, I posted a comment on the "Explain your Siggy" thread on the off-topic section for you, please go and read it.

[Goliath]

why would they need to get rid of the man being dissolved since it wouldn't be graphic at all. the rest i understand but if the partial nudity was just her belly and legs then whats wrong with that? and its been said they're so asshamed of it they don't want it released ever.

They showed Ariel partially nude. Remember, when she turns into a human, she is nude. Disney even decided to film a scene where you could really see all of her, be it covered by a shadow, instead of showing her from a distance. So I don't see why the 'partially nudity' of Eilowny could be objectionable.

Disney's Child Abuse - an in-depth look tonight on Dateline.

Sure, you've heard all about Mickey, Winnie, Snow White and all their perfect siblings...but Disney's got a few skeletons in the closet. Disney's had a few imperfect children, as well, and their story isn't so pretty...


(I suck at forum comedy )

Don't be too harsh on yourself... I had a giggle over it.

I think The Black Cauldron simply tries way to hard to be an 'adult' movie... Disney pressed so hard the film becomes ridiculous. They thought: if we just throw in enough gory details (see the cell on the previous page), violence and make the villain really, really ugly, the public will think it's a very adult movie. Well, they guessed wrong. That's not what makes a film adult, and it's not interesting either. Hunchback of Notre Dame was an adult film, without being gory or having 'partially nude' heroines in it (unlike the cut Eilowny sene). A movie becomes mature through the subject matter, not through ridiculous overblown and overdone violence.

[Rudy Matt]

why would they need to get rid of the man being dissolved since it wouldn't be graphic at all. the rest i understand but if the partial nudity was just her belly and legs then whats wrong with that? and its been said they're so asshamed of it they don't want it released ever.

They showed Ariel partially nude. Remember, when she turns into a human, she is nude. Disney even decided to film a scene where you could really see all of her, be it covered by a shadow, instead of showing her from a distance. So I don't see why the 'partially nudity' of Eilowny could be objectionable.

Disney's Child Abuse - an in-depth look tonight on Dateline.

Sure, you've heard all about Mickey, Winnie, Snow White and all their perfect siblings...but Disney's got a few skeletons in the closet. Disney's had a few imperfect children, as well, and their story isn't so pretty...


(I suck at forum comedy )

Don't be too harsh on yourself... I had a giggle over it.

I think The Black Cauldron simply tries way to hard to be an 'adult' movie... Disney pressed so hard the film becomes ridiculous. They thought: if we just throw in enough gory details (see the cell on the previous page), violence and make the villain really, really ugly, the public will think it's a very adult movie. Well, they guessed wrong. That's not what makes a film adult, and it's not interesting either. Hunchback of Notre Dame was an adult film, without being gory or having 'partially nude' heroines in it (unlike the cut Eilowny sene). A movie becomes mature through the subject matter, not through ridiculous overblown and overdone violence.

I think Huncback is a very violent and sexually provocative movie, and the more adult sensibilities in the film are why there is such a disconnect with the low humour and child-centric gags and puns. As for partial nudity, you don't get closer than Esmerelda's flame dance, which WAS nude until the MPAA forced revisions.

I agree that violence and gore does not equal "adult", but c'mon -- The Black Cauldron was a decided step into the "Heavy Metal" ethos of animation and away from the Disney house style. I give it props for trying something more in line with a Metallica album cover -- in fact, I value Disney animation constantly trying new things and new genres. When Disney stops trying to advance the art form into new territories, that's when the art form dies. See Brother Bear and Home on the Range.

[Goliath]

I think Huncback is a very violent and sexually provocative movie,

The difference with Cauldron is, it is mostly implied or at least not very graphic. You won't see a man's skin dissolve or skeletons raise from the death. That's why the film is much, much better.

and the more adult sensibilities in the film are why there is such a disconnect with the low humour and child-centric gags and puns.

I don't think there's much disconnect. I see Hunchback as a very balanced film.

As for partial nudity, you don't get closer than Esmerelda's flame dance, which WAS nude until the MPAA forced revisions.

I've never heard of that. Where did you get this information?

[Rudy Matt]

That's common knowledge with animation buffs, especially fans on Hunchback.

Just google search it, you'll find it. Might also be on the commentary, but its been several years.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

On the nudity subject aren't we all forgetting Fantasia? The Dewdrop fairy's are nude, the Centaurettes are bare chested, the Cupids are nude as well as various minions and harpys in Night on Bald Mountain.

I'll go back to lurking now

[Elladorine]

As for partial nudity, you don't get closer than Esmerelda's flame dance, which WAS nude until the MPAA forced revisions.

I've never heard of that. Where did you get this information?

From what I heard, she was never nude, but they did have to go back and accentuate her clothes so people wouldn't mistake her to be.

[Rudy Matt]

Well, I have the original Brizzi Bros. storyboards for Hunchback, and while you don't see naughty bits on Esmerelda, you don't see a stitch of clothing, either.

[Elladorine]

This version of Esmeralda takes form within a flame and is more of a figure than flesh, and couldn't be any more nude than an unclothed Barbie doll or Sailor Moon in the middle of her transformation.

I understand why the company (or rather, the execs) insisted that they make it clear to emphasize her clothing. Disney is overly cautious of these things anymore, not only is it bad publicity for people to discover so-called "naughty bits" in Disney films even where there are none, it can also be costly (remember when they had to recall VHS's of The Rescuers?)

Even the nudity in Fantasia has been somewhat censored. The centaurettes were originally depicted with (gasp) nipples in the preproduction art, but obviously they were traded in for bras made of flowers and grapes in the final animation. Even in the nude opening shots the nipples are omitted altogether, but curiously enough, the griffins (?) that appear later in the film do indeed have them. They weren't nearly as cute and sexy though.

[triwit]

Official Thai distributor just had a new year party and gave away 2009 Movie Line Up. When opened, I have found 'The Black Cauldron' DVD will be out this 2009!