Some Black Cauldron questions

[Flanger-Hanger]

I have two questions about The Black Cauldron:

1. I remember seeing an animation cell from one of the deleted scenes in the move, has anybody seen more pics, or even videos from these scenes?

2. Is there actually going to be a live action version of the original boks, or is that a lie?

[Super Aurora]

I have two questions about The Black Cauldron:

1. I remember seeing an animation cell from one of the deleted scenes in the move, has anybody seen more pics, or even videos from these scenes?

I believe there are only three different cels out. Never seen a video of it though.

2. Is there actually going to be a live action version of the original boks, or is that a lie?

Never heard of this.

[blackcauldron85]

I've read about the cuts, and I've seen a cel online (which I'm trying to find)...here's what Wikipedia says:
Shortly before the film's release to theaters, newly appointed Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg ordered several scenes from The Black Cauldron be cut, due to the fear that the graphic nature of them would alienate children and family audiences. The bulk of the cut scenes involved the undead "Cauldron Born", who are used as the Horned King's army in the final act of the film. While most of the scenes were seamlessly removed from the film, one particular cut involving a Cauldron Born killing a person by slicing his neck and torso created a rather recognizable lapse due to the fact that the removal of the scene creates a jump in the film's soundtrack. Additionally, a scene involving Taran taking the magic sword and slaying his foes while he escapes the Horned King's castle for the first time was removed, as well as another scene with Princess Eilonwy partially nude as fabric was ripped off of her dress as she is hanging by her hands with Taran and Fflewddur Fflam[citation needed]. Another scene cut featured a man being dissolved by mist. [1] The final version of the film was the first animated film from Disney to get a PG rating from the MPAA.

I know that Jeffrey Katzenberg also cut a scene of one of the Gwythaints (from what I read, it seemed to be one of the Gwythaints) picking up a "boy" (I'm assuming Taran) by its claws and there was blood...I read that in "DisneyWar".

I'll continue looking for the cel, and if I find it I'll post it here.

[reyquila]

Beware!!! Decribing the Cauldron as Black is racist!!!

[akhenaten]

mr. RATsseter, please release a special 25th anniversary RESTORED SCENES version of the black cauldron. so it can be the epic movie it should be.

[Jules]

mr. RATsseter, please release a special 25th anniversary RESTORED SCENES version of the black cauldron. so it can be the epic movie it should be.

Wow, I'd love to see a BC DVD release with the restored scenes. Of course, I'd still expect the release the provide the theatrical cut without the deleted scenes. I read that article on Wikipedia before, and the scenes sound really cool. Blood and violence in a Disney film? I'm all for it! And a partially nude Eilonwy? That would have been ripping, and may have drawn teen audiences to the movie.

These are, in my opinion, acceptable adult elements in Disney movies. Adult material like this is what genuinely makes a film more mature (to a certain extent) , and not base innuendo, toilet humour and sex references.

Mind you, this sort of stuff certainly makes a film more graphically mature. However, it doesn't necessarily make the concept and storytelling mature. A fine example of real adult storytelling disguised as a kid-friendly fare is Disney's Hunchback. It's not kid-friendly and it's not a children's film. Disney's Hunchback is a complex story of selfless love, rejection, hate, sex and lust.

[PapiBear]

Beware!!! Decribing the Cauldron as Black is racist!!!

Not funny.

[reyquila]

Beware!!! Decribing the Cauldron as Black is racist!!!

Not funny.

Very much!!!

[Flanger-Hanger]

I've read about the cuts, and I've seen a cel online (which I'm trying to find)...here's what Wikipedia says:
Shortly before the film's release to theaters, newly appointed Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg ordered several scenes from The Black Cauldron be cut, due to the fear that the graphic nature of them would alienate children and family audiences. The bulk of the cut scenes involved the undead "Cauldron Born", who are used as the Horned King's army in the final act of the film. While most of the scenes were seamlessly removed from the film, one particular cut involving a Cauldron Born killing a person by slicing his neck and torso created a rather recognizable lapse due to the fact that the removal of the scene creates a jump in the film's soundtrack. Additionally, a scene involving Taran taking the magic sword and slaying his foes while he escapes the Horned King's castle for the first time was removed, as well as another scene with Princess Eilonwy partially nude as fabric was ripped off of her dress as she is hanging by her hands with Taran and Fflewddur Fflam[citation needed]. Another scene cut featured a man being dissolved by mist. [1] The final version of the film was the first animated film from Disney to get a PG rating from the MPAA.

I know that Jeffrey Katzenberg also cut a scene of one of the Gwythaints (from what I read, it seemed to be one of the Gwythaints) picking up a "boy" (I'm assuming Taran) by its claws and there was blood...I read that in "DisneyWar".

I'll continue looking for the cel, and if I find it I'll post it here.

Thanks for the info! It's from wikipedia so not all of it may be true, but it sounds cool. As great as an uncut version would be, I think it would be the last thing Disney would do, considering how much they hate the film.

[UncleEd]

I don't know, I know some people who claim that associated the term "black" with bad is racist. They object to terms like Black Balled but black balled comes from when the Roman senate would vote with white and black marbles and if the black count was higher than whatever they were voting on had been black balled. Race had nothing to do with it. I'm actually surprised no one has objected to the Black Cauldron title yet.

I'd like to see a DVD with the cut scenes too but only Anchor Bay would have pulled it off. I doubt Disney will ever let this stuff out of ther vault.

[blackcauldron85]

I only quoted Wikipedia after I read it- I had read all that before...it was just easiest to post from there!

If John Lasseter loves animation so much, and he loves Disney so much, why wouldn't he release the unedited versions of the package films and TBC? Huh?!?! Does he agree with these? Has he thought about it at all? Sure, he'd have to get past Iger, but doesn't he adore Lasseter anyway?

[kurtadisneyite]

Disney has become a "family-themed" icon, and that affects the focus of products branded "Disney".

Thus, 'BLACK CAULDRON", if given the "missing" scenes depicting more blood, violence, and even partial nudity, would be a marketing problem.

CAULDRON is (I think at present) the only hand-drawn Disney film to have a PG rating. HUNCHBACK probably came very close, given some suggested sensuality regarding Esmeralda. Everything else is G which means; no sex, no nudity, no cussing, very limited blood, etc.

Some early Disney shorts, some (I think) suggesting outhouse style humor, have been allowed to fall into public domain. Ditto for some war time Disney cartoons that put Disney characters more into the "adult" domain.

[SpringHeelJack]

CAULDRON is (I think at present) the only hand-drawn Disney film to have a PG rating. HUNCHBACK probably came very close, given some suggested sensuality regarding Esmeralda. Everything else is G which means; no sex, no nudity, no cussing, very limited blood, etc.

"Treasure Planet", "Lilo & Stitch", "Home on the Range" and "Atlantis: The Lost Empire" are all PG rated.

I once printed a pic online of a cel from a a deleted scene of a henchman being dissolved by the green mist. I at some point used it as a bookmark in the book "The Black Cauldron" and misplaced it. If I do stumble upon it, I will scan/upload it here. It was pretty graphic, as I recall. The guy's skin was coming off, he was screaming...would not have worked well in the traditional "family audience" sense.

[disneyfreak90]

why would they need to get rid of the man being dissolved since it wouldn't be graphic at all. the rest i understand but if the partial nudity was just her belly and legs then whats wrong with that? and its been said they're so asshamed of it they don't want it released ever. it would be nice if it got out with real stuff and not that game on the only DVD out.

[SpringHeelJack]

why would they need to get rid of the man being dissolved since it wouldn't be graphic at all.

I'm not really sure what you're asking here. It was a graphic scene, from the cel I saw. He was hunched over, had a lack of skin, some muscles bubbling up, and he was screaming. It was a very graphic depiction of some random dude getting dissolved.

[disneyfreak90]

oh i thought it was like where bosses in early games just got defeated looks and not a horrible looking death like that.

[Elladorine]

why would they need to get rid of the man being dissolved since it wouldn't be graphic at all.

I'm not really sure what you're asking here. It was a graphic scene, from the cel I saw. He was hunched over, had a lack of skin, some muscles bubbling up, and he was screaming. It was a very graphic depiction of some random dude getting dissolved.

I read about that scene several years ago. . . it was supposed to depict the awesome brutality and destructive indifference of the cauldron-born.

It was suggested at another forum that it's possible these deleted scenes don't exist in their entirety anymore, given Katzenberg's attitude at the time. I did try to bid on a supposedly "uncut" VHS work print of the film on ebay years ago but that fell through.

I'd love to see anything deleted from this films that people might be able to post.

[SpringHeelJack]

Aha! I knew if I dug around in my Prydain books long enough I'd fnd the picture I got from the internet years ago, and here it is. This is the one I was describing, of a henchman being dissolved by the cauldron's mist. It's of poor quality, given it's a scan on a picture printed on a fairly lousy printer, but it's better than nothing.



You can probably see why this was axed.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Despite the gore that sequence had, you have to admit it would have been hard to animate.

[blackcauldron85]

SpringHeelJack, thanks for posting that! I had been trying to find that (or a similar picture) online, and I couldn't!

Despite the gore that sequence had, you have to admit it would have been hard to animate.

But it already was completely animated- Katzenberg just edited it out.

I think that Disney could release an Unrated DVD of TBC...for the die-hard collectors. With all the deleted animation put back in. I do admit, though, that it'd be kind of gross to see people getting "dissolved"...but it was originally part of the movie.