Disney Princesses/Heroines Without Mothers: Why?

[Jim's Jewel]

A lot of main characters are orphans or have only one parent because it gives the audience immediate sympathy for them. If you don't care about the character, you don't care what happens to them. That was always Walt's complaint about Alice in Wonderland... he said that no one would care what happened to her because there was nothing sympathetic about her. I actually like the movie because I think the side characters are entertaining, but I agree that I never really cared about Alice herself too much. Separating a child from one or both parents is something we're all familiar with and something we all agree is sad. Strong stories are based on sympathetic characters... taking away the mother is a clear and easy way to achieve that.

You do have a point there, stlewis75, but what about Melody from the Little Mermaid 2? She had a mother (Ariel) and yet she was still a sympathetic character...and anyway, while the heroines who don't have a mother still get sympathy, Disney don't really focus on the fact that the girls are without a mother and they get sympathy for other reasons.

[WickedElphie]

Well there was no way Disney was going to kill off Ariel. Plus in that particular case a main plot point was Melody and Ariel's relationship. Eric, however was just kind of there in the background, as the occasional voice of reason-sort of a reverse on Aurora and Mulan's moms.

[Drawken]

I've always been under the impression that most Disney characters have only one parent because of financial reasons. Why put in the cost to design and animate both parents when all you really need is one?
Personally, I believe them only having one parent makes them stronger people because of it.

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

Aurora and Mulan are the only Disney Princesses with a mother.

Well, Princess Kida has a mother too, in the beginning of the film at least. Although she didn't actually die, it's just that the Queen and the Crystal became one. Kida, while in the Crystal, met her mother who gave her back the bracelet she used to wear as a child.
And we recently got a first view of Ariel's mother and we still don't know what really happened to her.
Also we have no clue about where Esmeralda's and Megara's moms are, what they do, if they're alive etc. So maybe they have moms.

[Ariel'sprince]

Aurora and Mulan are the only Disney Princesses with a mother.

Well, Princess Kida has a mother too, in the beginning of the film at least. Although she didn't actually die, it's just that the Queen and the Crystal became one. Kida, while in the Crystal, met her mother who gave her back the bracelet she used to wear as a child.
And we recently got a first view of Ariel's mother and we still don't know what really happened to her.
Also we have no clue about where Esmeralda's and Megara's moms are, what they do, if they're alive etc. So maybe they have moms.

Yeah but Kida is not a Disney Princess,thought her mother didn't died in the beginning?.
Maybe Ariel's mom (Athena) didn't died,she cheated on Triton with the pirates and left with him .

[Chernabog_Rocks]

^ Actually Ariels_Prince, Kida is a princess regardless of what the merchandise says


I'll come back after I've read over the 2 pages again, but Disney Duster, Siren and Disney's Divinity mentioned good points

[Ariel'sprince]

She's a real princess but not a Disney Princess.

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

Yeah but Kida is not a Disney Princess,thought her mother didn't died in the beginning?.

This topic is not only about the main 6 (or 8 lately) characters who appear in the Disney Princess merchandise. It's about princesses and heroines in general who appear in Disney films.
And I am pretty sure that Kida's mom didn't die, she was just absorbed by the Crystal, and when Kida was in it, the Queen gave her back the bracelet she used to wear as a little girl.

[Ariel'sprince]

Yeah but Kida is not a Disney Princess,thought her mother didn't died in the beginning?.

This topic is not only about the main 6 (or 8 lately) characters who appear in the Disney Princess merchandise. It's about princesses and heroines in general who appear in Disney films.
And I am pretty sure that Kida's mom didn't die, she was just absorbed by the Crystal, and when Kida was in it, the Queen gave her back the bracelet she used to wear as a little girl.

Yeah,but you quoted the line i said that Aurora and Mulan are the only princesses with a mother so i said she's not a Disney Princess.
But Kida didn't turned into a crystal? did her father died? i don't get it .

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

Yeah,but you quoted the line i said that Aurora and Mulan are the only princesses with a mother so i said she's not a Disney Princess.
But Kida didn't turned into a crystal? did her father died? i don't get it .

Sorry, I forgot that when you talk about princesses you only mean those particular heroines.
Yes Kida was also absorbed by the Crystal, just like her mother was many years before. And yes her father died. What is it that you don't get?

[Ariel'sprince]

Yeah,but you quoted the line i said that Aurora and Mulan are the only princesses with a mother so i said she's not a Disney Princess.
But Kida didn't turned into a crystal? did her father died? i don't get it .

Sorry, I forgot that when you talk about princesses you only mean those particular heroines.
Yes Kida was also absorbed by the Crystal, just like her mother was many years before. And yes her father died. What is it that you don't get?

And Giselle (She's official).
I don't get what happend to her mother? she died? she turned into a crystal,too? .

[stlewis75]

You do have a point there, stlewis75, but what about Melody from the Little Mermaid 2? She had a mother (Ariel) and yet she was still a sympathetic character...and anyway, while the heroines who don't have a mother still get sympathy, Disney don't really focus on the fact that the girls are without a mother and they get sympathy for other reasons.

I'm not saying that making a character an orphan is the only way to develop sympathy for them... just that it's an easy, sure-fire way to do it. That's why it's been used so many times, I believe.

[Disney's Divinity]

I'm not saying that making a character an orphan is the only way to develop sympathy for them... just that it's an easy, sure-fire way to do it. That's why it's been used so many times, I believe.

I don't dispute that, but I agree with Jim's Jewel that most of heroes/heroines' mothers are never mentioned and they acquire the audience's sympathy in other ways. Exceptions to this rule are the films that actually take consideration in the fact that the character is missing their mother (such as the death of Quasimodo's and Tod's mothers in the beginning). But most of them make no mention of the missing mother. Which raises the question of why the mother, and not the father, has to be missing--when the missing parent really doesn't have any effect on the audience if they're never mentioned?

[Kida]'s a real princess but not a Disney Princess.

Well, she's a princess. And she's in a Disney movie. Hmm...

Seriously, she's a Disney princess regardless of the fact that Disney can't glamorize her like the others. Also--Giselle? I don't think I've seen anything that shows her along the same level as any of the animated films' princesses/heroines. And, personally, I don't think she belongs anywhere near them.

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

I don't get what happend to her mother? she died? she turned into a crystal,too? .

Well, what the King says in the movie is that Kida's mom was lost in the Crystal. So she didn't die, she became part of the Crystal actually, some kind of energy. The fact that the Queen was alive in the Crystal was made clear in the end of the movie, when Kida, after having left the Crystal, realises that she holds a bracelet her mother took from her when she was chosen by the Crystal. And you have to be alive to give someone something back.

[pap64]

The funny thing is that this is also a common occurrence in many Anime and Manga series. For example, the main character's mother in Card Captor Sakura has passed away. Sakura isn't sad about it, which adds to her character, and adds a sweet sentimentality to the stories whenever the mother is brought up.

Worse case scenario, both of the character's parents are dead, because of an accident (they always say it was a car accident).

So like its been said before, having a character's parents deceased creates sympathy towards the character if he/she feels lonely or respect if the characters has accepted their deaths and has learned to move on.

[Prudence]

It's really just a common story element for the main character(s) to be missing one or both parents. It's nothing new at all.

[Disney Princess Ariellen]

[M]ost of them make no mention of the missing mother. Which raises the question of why the mother, and not the father, has to be missing--when the missing parent really doesn't have any effect on the audience if they're never mentioned?
.

*crawls out of the shadows to join in this discussion*

For the sake of discussing the other side of the story, I'd like to point out how issues of absent mothers and wicked stepmothers were presented by Disney in one of their most recent projects, Enchanted. Giselle and Narissa certainly exemplified some of the 'norms' we've come to expect from a lot of fairy tales, Disney or otherwise...the former was a heroine with no parents present in her life, and the latter was very much the 'wicked stepmother' archetype, though she fit that role in relation to Edward, not Giselle.

On the flipside though, I thought one of the most interesting elements of the film was that absent mothers and potential stepmothers were issues that became relevant when the movie transitioned to New York. The first person to demonstrate caring for Giselle in New York is Morgan...a sweet young girl with no mother. However, we learn that Mom isn't just 'mysteriously absent'...Morgan expresses curiosity about what it would be like to have a mother in her life, though she does express reservations about having Nancy as a stepmother, even though Robert and Giselle both try to convince her (at different moments) that stepmothers are not inherently mean or wicked. I really, really liked how the absence of Morgan's mother was not simply glossed over or presented as 'just because'...the film addresses how that void affects both Morgan and Robert. In this story, the biological mother has left and is apparently not in the life of her child anymore. And even if Morgan seemed uncomfortable around Nancy/unwilling to accept her as a stepmother, we don't see anything in the bit we see of Nancy's character to indicate that there's anything "evil" about her. In a movie that derived a lot of its charm from the familiar conventions we're used to in fairy tales, I thought the hinting at/discussion of the missing mother was a VERY interesting way to create some sort of separation from those conventions. While one movie breaking with the 'trend' is obviously an exception, not a sign of a new rule, I thought it was an exception deserving of some attention.

[Disney Duster]

Well, what the King says in the movie is that Kida's mom was lost in the Crystal. So she didn't die, she became part of the Crystal actually, some kind of energy. The fact that the Queen was alive in the Crystal was made clear in the end of the movie, when Kida, after having left the Crystal, realises that she holds a bracelet her mother took from her when she was chosen by the Crystal. And you have to be alive to give someone something back.

I doubt Kida's mother was still alive, maybe just a spirit or something. Unless you count a spirit as being alive, but I could only think her soul was trapped there. What a sucky existence if that's the case. But couldn't Kida just have pulled the bracelet out of the crystal, without her mother actual "giving" it to her? What if the bracelet stayed in there somehow because it wasn't part of her mother's belongings, it was Kida's, so the crystal didn't crystalize it when it took her mother?

In a movie that derived a lot of its charm from the familiar conventions we're used to in fairy tales, I thought the hinting at/discussion of the missing mother was a VERY interesting way to create some sort of separation from those conventions. While one movie breaking with the 'trend' is obviously an exception, not a sign of a new rule, I thought it was an exception deserving of some attention.

Well, I never thought that maybe the film was purposely taking a look at the missing parents tradition, but since I heard they wanted to take deeper looks at the classic traditions and characters, I'll buy it. Except...it's more about Morgan and her loss of parents, not how Edward or Giselle deal with their losses. Those are the traditional characters, shouldn't they have been the ones to reflect on their missing parents, provoked by the real world? I guess Giselle having to talk about it gets close. So, you made me think. Good for you. But I don't know if they deliberately did that to remark on the missing parent tradition or they just made Morgan lose her mom so Robert could say why he gave up on happily ever after and they could make evil stepmother jokes. I think if it was meant for more, Morgan's talk would have made Giselle say a little on her own missing parents. That was a perfect opportunity if they had a true exploration of the missing parents tradition in mind.

[Disney Princess Ariellen]

Well, I never thought that maybe the film was purposely taking a look at the missing parents tradition, but since I heard they wanted to take deeper looks at the classic traditions and characters, I'll buy it. Except...it's more about Morgan and her loss of parents, not how Edward or Giselle deal with their losses. Those are the traditional characters, shouldn't they have been the ones to reflect on their missing parents, provoked by the real world?
I guess Giselle having to talk about it gets close. So, you made me think. Good for you.

I've been told I've had that effect with regard to this movie. I keep finding new ways to view it, which is why I love it so much!

I see your point about how Giselle and Edward are never really forced to think about their own 'parental issues,' and I think you could be right that the movie could have been more direct in commenting on the absence of parents in fairy tales had they gone into discussions about the subject based on the real world. I think for the purpose of story, though, that commentary works better in the more subtle way it is presented as is. It doesn't ask Giselle or Edward to stop and think, "Gee, why DON'T we have 2 parents?" but it does very nicely acknowledge that life is more complicated than fairy tales. In a fantasy world, absent parents are accepted, even expected, and as far as we can tell, those absences don't have a tremendous impact on who the characters grow up to be. Reality is different, and Giselle seems to notice that difference fairly quickly, asking Robert if Morgan "misses [her mother] terribly" even though we don't see Giselle having a strong sense of missing her parents, beyond seeming a little sorry to have to tell Morgan that she'd never been shopping with her mother, either. I wouldn't be surprised if, being a fairy-tale character, something good came her way to help her move on beyond the loss of her own mother and she never had to deal with that loss on a day-to-day basis, but she sense that in our world, such a loss isn't quite so easy to get over. I thought that addressing the absence of mothers as that issue affects Morgan, not Giselle, helped the movie keep a good balance of having a 'message' and telling a story. It's a subtle commentary that you can find in the movie, but doesn't take you out of enjoying the story to get preachy.

But I don't know if they deliberately did that to remark on the missing parent tradition or they just made Morgan lose her mom so Robert could say why he gave up on happily ever after and they could make evil stepmother jokes.

I definitely agree that the primary function of bringing up Morgan's' mother was to give some insight as to why Robert stopped believing in 'being in love' with someone and 'happily ever after,' not to provide social commentary, and I think the movie is better as a result. Still, it's not very common to see a Disney father discuss how he's been affected when he loses his wife. Also, in this case, the mother/wife didn't die; she left, and based on the 'never been shopping' comment Morgan makes, the ex hasn't remained involved with her daughter's life. So many of the stories Disney tells either don't draw attention to the absent parents, or implies that those parental figures are long dead and that the protagonist is now largely unaffected by the loss. Here, we see a fairy-tale character confront a situation that seems 'familiar' to her (meeting a young girl raised by a single father) and realize that the situation's not as 'simple' as it probably would be back in Andalasia. Robert's ex walked away from him and their daughter, and her departure has left a lasting impression on him...leaving pain he can't bring himself to talk about with his daughter and that keeps him from believing that love could be more than a fantasy. This type of abandonment is in and of itself relatively rare among Disney films...Aladdin and the King of Thieves is the only one off the top of my head that deals with a parent who chooses to leave and the pain left in the wake.

I think if it was meant for more, Morgan's talk would have made Giselle say a little on her own missing parents. That was a perfect opportunity if they had a true exploration of the missing parents tradition in mind.

I do think you are right about that. I'll admit that I don't think the movie was going after a 'true explanation' of the tradition, but I do think they were deliberate in deciding not to gloss-over the tradition altogether and that I was pleasantly surprised to see the matter addressed from a deeper perspective than I would have expected going into the theatre. I loved the dynamic that formed among Robert, Morgan, and Giselle. I hadn't expected I'd feel so emotionally invested in so many of the characters.[/i]

[Disney Duster]

Well, all I can say is it all sounds good, very well thought out. I haven't seen enough Disney live-action or remember enough less popular Disney animated titles to know how much Disney has touched on spouses choosing to leave or children being affected by parents out of the picture. But in the popular films this movie is based on, it's true, not even the renaissance ones really said anything about missing parents. And you are right, the way it's handled in the real world is different from how it would be in Andalasia, and Giselle notices that. So, I suppose they could have been making a comment on the parents thing by saying it would be tougher and sadder in the real world, and Giselle as an anaimated princess never got that so effected. Okay, so now I agree, that could have been some comment on the missing parents tradition, how the heroines and heroes seem unaffected. Very good!