True, but in nearly every version of the Cinderella tale, it was indeed the stepmother who was wicked.Someday... wrote:In most of the original tales of Hansel and Gretal, Snow White, ect. it was the mother who was wicked.
When the Grimm brothers wrote down the original tales, they decided that it was too upsetting that the childrens mothers could be so cruel.
Now by replacing the wicked mother with a wicked stepmother, they not only lost the thought of a mother willing to do horrible things to their children, but also suceeded in winning our characters some of our sympathy.
indeedPrudence wrote:True, but in nearly every version of the Cinderella tale, it was indeed the stepmother who was wicked.Someday... wrote:In most of the original tales of Hansel and Gretal, Snow White, ect. it was the mother who was wicked.
When the Grimm brothers wrote down the original tales, they decided that it was too upsetting that the childrens mothers could be so cruel.
Now by replacing the wicked mother with a wicked stepmother, they not only lost the thought of a mother willing to do horrible things to their children, but also suceeded in winning our characters some of our sympathy.
Yes, I realize this. I am talking about perception and acceptance. Its easier to accept an evil step-mother. A woman who has NO relation to the child and only dotes on their own children. Where as having a biological mother be cruel to their child, tends to turn off audiences. Its psychology and marketting. People would be shocked to know how much those two go together. For instance, remember The Santa Clause, when the one guy pitched the idea of a toy Santa with a tank and how Scott Calvin was totally turned off the idea of Santa using a weapon. Its was a parody of what really goes on in a marketing session. People throw out ideas and then they are psycho-analyzed by the other marketers on how people will perceive them. The same thing goes on with the movie. Sexist or not, its pure psychology that people want to see caring mothers, not abusive/stupid mothers. Our own psychology accepts the ideas of fathers this way, but not mothers.Disney's Divinity wrote:Going by the heroines you mentioned, the only maternal figures from their original stories that I can think were left out was the little mermaid's grandmother (who inspires the mermaid to go to the surface as well as control the king's anger). Of course, since Disney's version focuses on the father-daughter relationship, it's understandable that she was cut.
As for the "mother cures everything syndrome," I don't necessarily think that's true. I've met mothers who are complete idiots (like the Sultan), those that are overly strict (like Triton) and those that are just "out of it" (like Maurice). I think Disney's just afraid that if they depicted a mother that way, they'd be labeled sexist (even though they do the exact same thing to the fathers). Also, Jane's father is the only parent that any of those films could really do without; he doesn't add to the plot at all.
I think the idea that mothers are "perfect" is part of the problem.
Yes, this is acceptable. But I wasn't talking about having "abusive" mothers, the same way I didn't call any of the fathers seen in Disney films "abusive." There are just different types of parenting (some better than others).Yes, I realize this. I am talking about perception and acceptance. Its easier to accept an evil step-mother. A woman who has NO relation to the child and only dotes on their own children. Where as having a biological mother be cruel to their child, tends to turn off audiences.
I know about this as well. I remember reading once that the creators of the CGI TV show Reboot once had to edit a scene of the heroine kissing her younger brother's cheek because the company/station thought it would promote incest. Just an example of how very little perception means to the real world.People throw out ideas and then they are psycho-analyzed by the other marketers on how people will perceive them. The same thing goes on with the movie. Sexist or not, its pure psychology that people want to see caring mothers, not abusive/stupid mothers.
Reverse sexism, maybe?Our own psychology accepts the ideas of fathers this way, but not mothers.
Yes, she new that:Siren wrote:I found this interesting article: http://www.cwluherstory.com/Salon/kristin.html
The thing the feminist is missing is that Disney didn't WRITE those stories. They adapted them from other authors.
Of course, the reason those were chosen were because they were the most popular fairy tales...right? Or did Disney MAKE them popular...?Granted, these ancient stories have been handed down from days when mothers died young, often during childbirth. The stories were meaningful to those who were left with stepmothers who mistreated them; after all, bloodlines establish inheritance, and stepmothers wanted to position their own blood offspring to inherit money or power. But there are hundreds of ancient stories on diverse themes. Why did Disney choose these?
Doesn't matter, she still brought up a valid point about Mothers that are in disney films and that's what the discussion is about.Disney Duster wrote: Nice pointing out some of the mothers in classic Disney films Siren, however none of those are as popular as the fairy tales, especially to children.
