Robin Hood: Most Wanted Edition

[Escapay]

Woohoo! Reason for me to upgrade!

And the best part is, now I can makes mine a 2-disc set, disc 1 with the Anamorphic Widescreen and disc 2 with the full animated frame.

Of course, would rather have disc 2 be chockful of bonus features, but still, yay, anamorphic widescreen!

Reminds me of when Kubric's Full Metal Jacket debuted on HD-DVD in its 1.77:1 AR (at least I think it's 1.77:1...)

Escapay

[goofystitch]

Great find, MichaeLeah. I tried to watch "Robin Hood" on my widescreen TV and zoomd into the picture to pseudo-matte it into widescreen, but sometimes framing looked really off, so it will be nice to have it framed the way it is supposed to be. This makes the upgrade a deffinate must for me... not that I wasn't going to get it before. lol.

[Escapay]

The one thing that bothers me, though, is that Disney is able to offer widescreen for Robin Hood, yet apparently the only edition of Fox and the Hound in their archives is crappy pan & scan.

Hmm...with Robin Hood's widescreen ratio, it's acknowledging that the 60s and 70s films are supposed to be matted...so do you think we'll see The Jungle Book in 1.75:1 anamorphic widescreen come October 2007?

Escapay

[MichaeLeah]

Hmm...with Robin Hood's widescreen ratio, it's acknowledging that the 60s and 70s films are supposed to be matted...so do you think we'll see The Jungle Book in 1.75:1 anamorphic widescreen come October 2007?

Escapay

I think we might. Let's not get too excited though. We don't really know for sure if the new Robin Hood is 1.75:1 until we get Luke's review. The Disney website has been known to be wrong before.

But I think both Jungle Book and 101 Dalmatians might come in widescreen...we will have to wait and see.

[goofystitch]

I really hope that both "The Jungle Book" and "101 Dalmatians" come in both widescreen and fullscreen on their Platinum DVD's. I wish "Robin Hood" did, too. They gave us widescreen and fullscreen versions of "Lady and the Tramp" and "Sleeping Beauty" on their DVD's. My reasoning is that sometimes I like to see everything that was animated, which is what you see on the fullscreen versions of these films. But the widescreen version is the way the films were intended to be seen. So it would really be awesome of Disney to give us restored picture and in both formats.

[BATBfan1]

Ok I don't get this? Was it made in fullscreen or widescreen? It looks like it is a matted widescreen IMO. I could be wrong though. I am still buying though.

[goofystitch]

BATBfan1 wrote:

Ok I don't get this? Was it made in fullscreen or widescreen? It looks like it is a matted widescreen IMO. I could be wrong though. I am still buying though. Smile

It was filmed in fullscreen and matted into widescreen. "Lady and the Tramp" and "Sleeping Beauty" had cost so much extra money to be filmed in widescreen, so from that point on, Disney animated films were filmed in fullscreen with the intentions of being matted into widescreen. "The Rescuers" was the first after SB to actually be filmed in widescreen, then "Fox and the Hound" supposedly was filmed in fullscreen, and everything after that is widescreen. I hope that clarifys things for you.

[BATBfan1]

BATBfan1 wrote:

Ok I don't get this? Was it made in fullscreen or widescreen? It looks like it is a matted widescreen IMO. I could be wrong though. I am still buying though. Smile

It was filmed in fullscreen and matted into widescreen. "Lady and the Tramp" and "Sleeping Beauty" had cost so much extra money to be filmed in widescreen, so from that point on, Disney animated films were filmed in fullscreen with the intentions of being matted into widescreen. "The Rescuers" was the first after SB to actually be filmed in widescreen, then "Fox and the Hound" supposedly was filmed in fullscreen, and everything after that is widescreen. I hope that clarifys things for you.

Some what. So if it was fullscreen then why are the matting it to widescreen? That doesn't make sense if it was filmed in fullscreen to be matted into widescreen.

[Escapay]

BATBfan1 wrote: It was filmed in fullscreen and matted into widescreen. "Lady and the Tramp" and "Sleeping Beauty" had cost so much extra money to be filmed in widescreen, so from that point on, Disney animated films were filmed in fullscreen with the intentions of being matted into widescreen. "The Rescuers" was the first after SB to actually be filmed in widescreen, then "Fox and the Hound" supposedly was filmed in fullscreen, and everything after that is widescreen. I hope that clarifys things for you.

Some what. So if it was fullscreen then why are the matting it to widescreen? That doesn't make sense if it was filmed in fullscreen to be matted into widescreen.

It's like your beloved BATB, BATBFan1.

The film was animated and drawn in full frame (or with BATB, in 1.66:1 CAPS), with the intention of being matted down for theatres (to 1.75 for Robin Hood, 1.85 for BATB). What we're getting in the new DVD is the theatrical aspect ratio. It can be considered the "proper" one, since that's what the directors likely wanted it to be shown at.

At the time, I don't think they quite knew how to animate and film cartoons beyond 1.33:1 unless it was a Cinemascope or Technirama film. Matting likely was easier, so they simply drew the full frame, but knew to keep the action within the part of the frame that would be shown in a certain aspect ratio, and matte out the rest in theatres.

Escapay

[goofystitch]

Easier and cheaper. I've read that after "Sleeping Beauty," Walt kind of felt that he had taken the animated feature to a place where there wasn't much room for improvement (after the xerox process in the early 60's, there wasn't a technical advancement until the CAPS system was tested on certain scenes in "The Black Cauldron" in 1985). He decided to focus his attentions on his Florida project and plans for EPCOT. So cost and time were the main reasons films after SB were filmed in fullscreen. And BATBFan1, I know the concept seems weird to remove animation from the shot. When I first heard of matting, I thought it was the oposite of getting somethin in fullscreen when it was filmed in widescreen. However, I was shown examples of films that were never meant to be seen in fullscreen and how there were errors in those shots. When films like "Robin Hood," "101 Dalmatians," and "The Jungle Book" were made, they were made in fullscreen, but all of the significant action was placed in the center of the screen. The directors planned for the top and bottom to be cut off in theaters. At the time, the only way anybody would have seen all that was animated would have been in a televised version. That is another reason why they may have been made in fullscreen. With LATT and SB, they had to film both films twice: once with the action in cinemascope or technirama, and the other in fullscreen. It just simplified the whole process to film it in fullscreen, but matte it into widescreen. So basically, the widescreen version is the true theatrical aspect ratio, but the fullscreen shows you all of the artwork. That's why I would like for them to include both versions of these films, like they did with SB and LATT.

[Escapay]

That is another reason why they may have been made in fullscreen. With LATT and SB, they had to film both films twice: once with the action in cinemascope or technirama, and the other in fullscreen.

No, they only did that for LATT, SB was only filmed in Technirama, and subsequent fullscreen versions are just P&S.

They did two versions for LATT because at the time, widescreen was still new, so Walt wanted a standard Academy ratio version available for theatres that didn't have widescreen lenses/projectors yet. By 1959 with Sleeping Beauty, widescreen had pretty much become the norm for theatres.

Escapay

[MichaeLeah]

I really hope that both "The Jungle Book" and "101 Dalmatians" come in both widescreen and fullscreen on their Platinum DVD's. I wish "Robin Hood" did, too. They gave us widescreen and fullscreen versions of "Lady and the Tramp" and "Sleeping Beauty" on their DVD's. My reasoning is that sometimes I like to see everything that was animated, which is what you see on the fullscreen versions of these films. But the widescreen version is the way the films were intended to be seen. So it would really be awesome of Disney to give us restored picture and in both formats.

While several of the animated films were matted down. This was not the case with either Lady and the Tramp nor Sleeping Beauty. There is no advantage to have a fullscreen version available for these films because they essentially cut of the sides of the frame (to make the fullscreen version).

Lady and the Tramp was made in CinemaScope. This was achieved by changing out a flat lense with a curved lense when the film (called a Scope lense) when the film was shot. The curved lense make the camera perceive a much wider area. The animators could take a wide photo of a wide picture when they made this movie. They actually use 35 mm film (which is what is used to Academy Ratio) but the curved lense makes the film capture the image in a distorted way. If you hold up the film of a CinemaScope film to the light, everything is very skinny because it is sqeezed together by the curved lense. (Kind of like those funny mirrors at a fair.) When you use the same curved lense on the projector, it "stetches" the image on the film back to normal proportions. This is what I understand after a long talk with a man from a projection both, I hope it made sense. The main point is that to CinemaScope, there is no matting at all.

Technirama is a different bird all together. It actually involved the much wider 70 mm film which is why the image is so wide.

This is a longer explanation of Escapay's answer.

[Dottie]

I think the right way to do it would be putting both version on the DVD, both full-and widescreen, but since it's "only" Robin Hood they're not gonna do this. I hope they're gonna do it with JB and 101Ds, though.

[KubrickFan]

Is it certain that the widescreen will be a matted one? I was biased, at first. But it is the way the director meant it, and it will also benefit from an anamorphic release. So if the restoration doesn't fail, it will be a pretty good release.

[MichaeLeah]

Is it certain that the widescreen will be a matted one? I was biased, at first. But it is the way the director meant it, and it will also benefit from an anamorphic release. So if the restoration doesn't fail, it will be a pretty good release.

If it is released widescreen, then it will be matted. Robin Hood was made with the 1.33:1 ratio. This is known for certain.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

With a handful of titles I'd say both matted and "full-screen" home video versions would be acceptable - as long as it's clear that we're not including P&S...

[goofystitch]

MichaeLeah wrote:

While several of the animated films were matted down. This was not the case with either Lady and the Tramp nor Sleeping Beauty. There is no advantage to have a fullscreen version available for these films because they essentially cut of the sides of the frame (to make the fullscreen version).

I knew that. I didn't word it well, though. I meant that since LATT and SB came with both fullscreen and widescreen (the original theatrical aspect ratio and what a large number of consumers like to see), it would make sense for the films made after these, which were made in fullscreen with intent to be matted into widescreen, to be released with both fullscreen(all that was animated) and widescreen(how it was meant to be seen) on the same disc. They've proven that they can do it, so I don't think we should settle for anything less. I would like a restored version of "Robin Hood" in both fullscreen and widescreen.

[KubrickFan]

I knew that. I didn't word it well, though. I meant that since LATT and SB came with both fullscreen and widescreen (the original theatrical aspect ratio and what a large number of consumers like to see), it would make sense for the films made after these, which were made in fullscreen with intent to be matted into widescreen, to be released with both fullscreen(all that was animated) and widescreen(how it was meant to be seen) on the same disc. They've proven that they can do it, so I don't think we should settle for anything less. I would like a restored version of "Robin Hood" in both fullscreen and widescreen.

I don't think Disney will put two different versions on it. With LatT and SB, since they were in 2.35:1, you had the situation of having two black bars on the top and bottom, on a widescreen television. That's why they gave you the pan&scan version, because Disney thinks we hate these bars. Since Robin Hood will fill a widescreen set (no black bars), Disney thinks the people at home won't complain. So why put an open matted version in it for them?
They could do it for us, but I don't think that will happen.

[Billy Moon]

With LatT and SB, since they were in 2.35:1, you had the situation of having two black bars on the top and bottom, on a widescreen television. That's why they gave you the pan&scan version, because Disney thinks we hate these bars.

But the 4:3 pan&scan version will also have black bars on a 16:9 TV, assuming you watch it in the correct ratio.

[goofystitch]

KubrickFan wrote:

Since Robin Hood will fill a widescreen set (no black bars), Disney thinks the people at home won't complain. So why put an open matted version in it for them?

Actually, more people have your standard full screen TV. I heard that it was somewhere around 35% of the population that has a widescreen tv. So Disney including the full screen version AND widescreen version could boost sales for people with fullscreen TVs who hate the black bars and people with widescreen TVs who hate bars on the sides or stretched images. In my house, out of 7 TVs, two are widescreen. However, I don't mind the bars and prefer widescreen if that's how it was supposed to be. I won't complain if we don't see a full screen version. I'm still in awe that Disney is actually admitting it was supposed to be widescreen and is releasing it that way.