Mickey Mouse In Black & White...

[STASHONE]

This has been bothering me for a while now...

If the shorts compiled on this Treasure set are displayed in an annual chronological context, why are they featured in such a random format and missing so many in-between shorts?



I would expect another volume of this set to eventually emerge but I just don't understand why Disney couldn't have listed every MM short from 1928-35 in proper order, and than have divided the 2 installments of these sets in such a context?

For example, these are the shorts which are not featured in the first set. They range in chronological order, from the year 1928-35, however are listed below in the procedure from which they theatrically debuted...



01 - The Barn Dance

02 - The Opry House

03 - When The Cats Away

04 - The Barnyard Battle

05 - The Plow Boy

06 - Mickey's Choo Choo

07 - The Jazz Fool

08 - The Haunted House

09 - Wild Waves

10 - Jungle Rhythm

11 - The Barnyard Concert

12 - Just Mickey

13 - The Cactus Kid

14 - The Shindig

15 - The Picnic

16 - Traffic Troubles

17 - The Castaway

18 - The Moose Hunt

19 - The Delivery Boy

20 - Fishin Around

21 - The Barnyard Broadcast

22 - The Beach Party

23 - The Grocery Boy

24 - The Mad Dog

25 - Barnyard Olympics

26 - Musical Farmer

27 - Mickey In Arabia

28 - Trader Mickey

29 - Mickey's Good Deed

30 - Mickey's Pal Pluto

31 - Mickey's Mellerdrammer

32 - Mickey's Mechanical Man

33 - The Steeple Chase

34 - Shanghaied

35 - Playful Pluto

36 - Mickey's Steam Roller

37 - Mickey Plays Papa

38 - Mickey's Man Friday

39 - Mickey's Kangaroo



If you look at the format for which the shorts that are featured on the set are displayed, you will see that they are grouped by year, however not in the proper arrangement from which they were originally presented theatrically...

They are randomly assorted, i.e. Steamboat Willie, The Gallopin' Gaucho, Plane Crazy, etc.

Those are the first 3 shorts featured on the Treasury, yet they are in backwards order from their production.



Also, from the above list of "missing" shorts, the dated range from which they were all originally presented is so vast...

Disney could have easily just grouped them together properly beginning with Plane Crazy and continuing in a forward order, ending with Mickey's Kangaroo.

Instead they cut random shorts out of the set entirely, leaving holes in the middle of each annual grouping.



I would imagine that on the next set, the cartoons will also be arranged in a chronological format beginning with the missing 1928 shorts and so on, but it just seems so stupid. Instead of putting in the DVD to watch a Mickey cartoon from 1932, we now have to memorize exactly what's featured on each set and swicth between Treasure collections in order to view the entire anthology of black and white Mickey shorts in proper order.


My question is, why did Disney chose to do this when it would have been so much simpler to arrange the cartoons as they have with all the other Treasure sets, and what motivated their choice or cartoons on this first volume? Does anyone understand the reasoning behind the random selection of shorts, or were they just compiled in such a way due to the order of restoration (doesn't make much sense to me?).

Also, has a MMIB&W Vol. 2 been officially confirmed yet and is it safe to assume it a definite future installment?

[STASHONE]

Btw, I can understand the logic behind the compilation of themed shorts arranged in the Silly Symphonies Treasury... the eclectic range of cartoons with a general connecting theme or concept to categorize them makes sense as it would appeal to more people in such a context, and would also make possible a simple means of compiling the next volume which would finnish the collection but this MM set just annoys me.

[Prince Phillip]

I think you forgot one. I believe there are 40 remaining shorts, not 39.

Well this too is a minor annoyance to me. I guess they wanted to do the cartoons that they thought would be more appealing to the general audience. Also, as I under stand it... many of the remaining cartoons, are very offensive, or have very contraversial content, not that that bothers me... this is just what I heard in another thread.

I just counted and there are 34 cartoons on the first set, so if they include all the rest of the cartoons on the next set, it should be a bit beefier, by six cartoons. I'm pretty sure I heard in another thread that there will indeed be a MMIBW vol. 2 scheduled for next year! and I don't see why there wouldn't be, but I don't understand why they say "Mickey's Service Station" is the last of his BW shorts, when clearly it is Mickey's Kangaroo, unless, they are thinking the "Kangaroo" came out before "Station"

Anyway... about the silly symphonies... I personally think that I would have prefered a chronological set, but that's just me. Although, it may be possible that they don't have an exact time line for them? Well, anyway this is getting off topic, but I hope I helped you some how...

[Porce]

Basically, it was a re-release of a failed laserdisc in 1993. Changes included were deleted scenes for STEAMBOAT WILLIE and YE OLDEN DAYS (I think) being restored and the addition of THE KARNIVAL KID.

Seeing as there are just 39 cartoons left, they will probably all be there on the 2004 Mickey B&W Vol 2 set. (I hope Disney has the guts to release MICKEY'S MELLERDRAMMER and TRADER MICKEY.)

[herman_the_german]

Disney claims they will release everything; if so, then there will be a second set.

Putting everything in chronological order is good from a historian's point of view, but not from an entertainment point of view. It would be like putting on a show and presenting the performers in an order based on their age. It is not good show business.

If in chronological sets, both sets would have very repetitive themes one after another (for example, three barnyard cartoons one after the other). By using good judgement you can create a more varied collection that lets the consumer sample different themes and even different drawing and animation styles. Thus both collections become more complete by themselves in showing a good sampler of what the B&W Mickey was capable of.
Also the cartoons were originally not done with the intention of compiling them and showing them in a 2 or 3 hour marathon, that would be exausting for most people. So you have to create as much diversity whithin each collection so that they remain entertaining and sell well.

[STASHONE]

Thanks everybody, and Prince Philip - there are in fact only 39 shorts left as I believe the 1930 sing-along reel "Minnie's Yoo Hoo", which would have been the extra cartoon you are referring to, was included as an easter egg bonus in the first set. The reason being is that it doesn't "officially" count as a theatrical short since it was produced specifically for The Mickey Mouse Club and not for theatrical release, and the animation segments were rehashed from the 1929 short, "Mickey's Follies".

I hope that MMILC2 does come out next year as I also took note of the fact that many of the shorts which did not make the premiere release, were some of the more controversial Disney cartoons so hopefully that wasn't a factor in them being dismissed from the first set...

[Prince Phillip]

1928

The Barn Dance

1929

The Opry House
When The Cat's Away
The Barnyard Battle
The Plowboy
Mickey's Choo-Choo
The Jazz Fool
Jungle Rhythm
The Haunted House
Wild Waves

1930

Just Mickey
The Barnyard Concert
The Cactus Kid
The Shindig
The Picnic

1931

Traffic Troubles
The Castaway
The Moose Hunt
The Delivery Boy
Fishin' Around
The Barnyard Broadcast
The Beach Party

1932

The Grocery Boy
The Mad Dog
Barnyard Olypics
Musical Farmer
Mickey In Arabia
Trader Mickey
The Wayward Canary
Mickey's Good Deed

1933

Mickey's Pal Pluto
Mickey's Mellerdrammer
Mickey's Mechanical Man
The Steeple Chase

1934

Shanghaied
Playful Pluto
Mickey's Stream Roller
Mickey Plays Papa

1935

Mickey's Man Friday
Mickey's Kangaroo

These are the ones left according to 2099net. He has 40 listed and that doesnt include Minnie's Yo Hoo.

Also, both of you include "The Moose Hunt", but that is a cartoon that is on the Living Color set

I'm very confused now...

[Prince Phillip]

The one that seems to be missing from your list is The Wayward Canary. I don't know if this was misplaced on his list or forgotten on yours...

[STASHONE]

Also, both of you include "The Moose Hunt", but that is a cartoon that is on the Living Color set

The 1937 short, "Moose Hunters" is the one which is featured on the Living Color set.

"The Moose Hunt", which features only Mickey & Pluto, was an earlier black & white short from 1931 and is a different cartoon altogether.

Many of Mickey's earlier black & white shorts were later redone with similair themes and storylines and featuring different characters in starring roles.

[STASHONE]

The one that seems to be missing from your list is The Wayward Canary. I don't know if this was misplaced on his list or forgotten on yours...

Woops... it is on the above list under 1932 where it belongs, I forgot all about that one...

Okay, 40 shorts are missing.

[Sulley]

I don't see why Disney shouldn't release the controversial shorts. Leonard Maltin's warning introductions were very well put and simply stated, and I don't think he would have a problem doing it again.

[Loomis]

I don't see why Disney shouldn't release the controversial shorts. Leonard Maltin's warning introductions were very well put and simply stated, and I don't think he would have a problem doing it again.

I agree totally.

And as I have said before, the suppression of these doesn't make them less controversial, it just adds to it.

[2099net]

I don't see why Disney shouldn't release the controversial shorts. Leonard Maltin's warning introductions were very well put and simply stated, and I don't think he would have a problem doing it again.

Read:
Trader Mickey
http://www.teemings.com/shorts/disney/y ... ickey.html

Mickey's Mellerdrammer
http://www.teemings.com/shorts/disney/y ... ammer.html

Even the title of the last one is potentially offensive!

Considering Disney won't release "Song of the South" I do find it highly doubtful these two shorts will be released. And if they are, they'll need more than a Maltin introduction to place them in context (IMOHO).

[Porce]

Even the title of the last one is potentially offensive!

It is? (I never know that I'm supposed to be offended until I'm told so. Take Speedy Gonzales. I had no idea he was a degrading stereotype until Cartoon Network banned it!)

[2099net]

Even the title of the last one is potentially offensive!

It is? (I never know that I'm supposed to be offended until I'm told so. Take Speedy Gonzales. I had no idea he was a degrading stereotype until Cartoon Network banned it!)

Look DacP, I said "Potentially", it doesn't mean I personally think it is, or you personally have to think it is - if Disney outright refuse to release "Song of the South" a film that many people here consider to be totally unoffensive (an opinion that I agree with), don't you think it's "optimistic" at best to expect Disney to release a short with a title could cause offense to some people (and I guarentee if it was released, some people would complain about that title - maybe for the right reasons, maybe for the wrong reasons). Plus, it's Mickey himself - Disney's greatest 'clean cut' asset performing in blackface for the cartoon. That will not go down well with a lot of people. Trust me.

I'm not saying that it will never be released - but there's a reason it was not included on the original Mickey B/W LD set, and thus the new Treasures set. I do think that if it is released, it will need more than a brief introduction to place the short in dramatic and historic context.

[STASHONE]

Didnt Leonard Maltin make mention of it's title in one of the dialogues pertaining to a racy short subject in the first set? I'm pretty sure I remember hearing a referance to Trader Mickey somewhere in that set...

[Porce]

Didnt Leonard Maltin make mention of it's title in one of the dialogues pertaining to a racy short subject in the first set? I'm pretty sure I remember hearing a referance to Trader Mickey somewhere in that set...

Actually, his introduction was more about smoking and animal abuse. I don't remember him mentioning racial stereotypes, but I haven't watched it in a while.

[STASHONE]

I know he definitely refers to other short subjects of similair context when explaining the theme behind another unconventionally p.c. short in the first Black & White set. He briefly mentions a group of Mickey shorts in relation while putting one of the cartoons into historical context by depicting their signifigance... I think one of the shorts briefly associated was Trader Mickey.

[Sulley]

I see where people would be offended, but I still would like to see them for myself, and I believe Disney could work something polite out without doing unnecessary editing.

[Maerj]

Maltin did make mention of the black face being a parody of Al Jolson singing "Mammy" It is on the B&W Mickey set, but the black face part was brief and I think it was some inanimate objects doing it, but it is late at night and I am really, really tired and can't remember for sure.