Do the blind see...

Yuki · Post by **Yuki** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:07 pm

In their dreams?
I was just thinking about this today, and I was wondering if one is born blind and have never seen colors, animate, or inanimate beings, what do they dream of?
A friend of mine says that maybe they dream what they think things look like, and if that's true, is it in colour? Or is it in black and white? Well, if they don't even know what color is, then how can they dream of black and white not knowing that there are different shades and colours in life?
I'm wondering if maybe they dream of sound. But then again, can they see the movement of sound? And again, if so, is it in black and white?
...so confusing...

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:18 pm

I've wondered something similar - since they don't see at all, does it just look black? Then again, wouldn't they need functional eyes to see blackness? It seems the only answers to questions like these would come from someone who once was blind.

Kram Nebuer · Post by **Kram Nebuer** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:52 pm

I was wondering about this a few days ago too. I mean how do they know what "red" or "green" means if they've never experienced color before. And it would be awesome if somehow they were medically given site again (is there such things as eye transplants), but would they choose to do it and if they do, how would one react to being able to see things. I'd find it quite shocking to see color and shapes after being in darkness. Which brings me to another thing. When babies are in the womb it is pitch black (unless there is a window in the belly button

) so why don't they go blind once they are born? Wouldn't the light hurt their eyes?

AwallaceUNC · Post by **AwallaceUNC** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:06 pm

It really is a fascinating subject. I wonder if there will ever be any way to know. If we can't communicate what we see as blue to a blind person- how can they communicate what they "see" to us? With no common medium to compare them against, I think it would be very difficult.

My roommate (Turdbizzler) is color-blind, and I find it fascinating to hear his descriptions even of that. What he sees as green may not be what we see as green, but he learned at a young age to call "green" (what we see as green) by that name. But it's also fun to sometimes trip him up with similar colors. My favorite is holding up two blue pens and asking him which one is green!

(He doesn't get offended... either that, or he's just used to it after years and years of it, lol. Btw, he wants me to pass along that he eagerly awaits his return to UD.com this fall).

But even the way color-blindness works is so hard to comprehend at times, and actual blindness truly borders on the incomprehensible for me. I wish there was a way to project what they visualize- much like Deana Troy was able to do on an episode of Star Trek: TNG (I think it was Deana's doing- it's been awhile since I've seen it).

-Aaron

deathie mouse · Post by **deathie mouse** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:37 pm

Kram Nebuer the light would shock their eyes (my eyes go into "shock" if i'm watching a movie at noon in a theater and then go out inmediatly after the credits into the sunlight) but eyes are designed so they can withstand full sunlight and more, so the light wont hurt their eyes.

(on the other hand, the ears are not designed for man made industrial volumes so we're all slowly going deaf

)

As for what or how blind people dream, well, we all make our concept of reality from what we perceive from our senses and also the abstract thought processes derived from language and knowledge and our dreams tend to "follow" that but we also dreams weird things not seen or experienced..

Even tho blind people can't see, the brain could produce colors or "lights" in the mind cus it's the brains that really see. I'm not sure, but I think when we say "I saw stars" when we're hit in the head, is from that, don't know if the optic nerves are involved in those flashes of "light" there (Rogger Rabbit sees birds

) the eyes are not what's being hit..

The question might be if even the brain could produce what we recognize as visual sensations by itself especially when dreaming how a blind person might interpret them since he has no point of reference except what people with eyesight might have tried to convey to them with language (and sounds). They probably dream in multichannel stereo with sensational Smellorama and Sensurround Feel-o-Scope . And even maybe cerebral generated visuals whatever those might be, but probably as they get older that part of the brain is used less and less and lies dormant?

Anyway the brain is really an incredible thing so a persons dream might only be limited by their own imagination (The worditself is visual based: "Image', but imagination is boundless, isn't it, even outside visual "boundaries"

This is all talk, the obvious thing to do is talk to them and ask. Or read books about them (maybe medical books?) and even written by them!

Escapay · Post by **Escapay** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:52 pm

awallaceunc wrote: I wish there was a way to project what they visualize- much like Deana Troy was able to do on an episode of Star Trek: TNG (I think it was Deana's doing- it's been awhile since I've seen it).

-Aaron

I think I know which episode you're talking about, but it may be *another* completely unrelated one. Is it the one where Geordi is hooked up to several bits of machines so he can "see" and somehow do a virtual walk-through of a dead spaceship (which his mother commanded)?

Escapay

deathie mouse · Post by **deathie mouse** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:05 pm

In case you're curious, in

http://webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/2.html

you can see an example of how an image looks to different "color blind" eyes. And there's also (very rare) people that only see in grainy black and white only.

I've seen other web sites about color vision theory that give visual examples of how the colors vary too.

If you like to experiment you could play with Photoshop's channels and eliminate red on one case, or merge the blue and green channels into 1 on the other, and see aproximations on your favorite images

AwallaceUNC · Post by **AwallaceUNC** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:53 pm

Thanks. Of all the color-blind demonstrations that I've seen, that's got to be the best.

Escapay- No, I do know that one, but that's not it (well, I guess it could be the same episode, but I don't think so). This one had each of the ship's officers connecting to a machine that projected, sort of like a hologram, whatever they were thinking of. It seems like it was in Troy's office. I wish I could remember.

-Aaron

mvealf · Post by **mvealf** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:56 pm

Yuki wrote:In their dreams?
I was just thinking about this today, and I was wondering if one is born blind and have never seen colors, animate, or inanimate beings, what do they dream of?
A friend of mine says that maybe they dream what they think things look like, and if that's true, is it in colour? Or is it in black and white? Well, if they don't even know what color is, then how can they dream of black and white not knowing that there are different shades and colours in life?
I'm wondering if maybe they dream of sound. But then again, can they see the movement of sound? And again, if so, is it in black and white?
...so confusing...

I have a very good friend who is legally blind, and went to schools for the blind, who has talked about this. She will say that if you were born with any sight at all, and then became blind later, then your brain can comprehend what colors are like, otherwise it can't. Just like a person born deaf cannot comprehend music. Beethoven still created the 9th Symphony when he was totally deaf because his brain was exposed to sound before he became deaf. There are many degrees of blindness. Some people who are 100% blind can still see the difference between light and total darkness, while others cannot. The answers to your questions would be different with each individual.

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:51 am

sometimes i wsh i was blind so it can be easier to tell which people are good and which people are not good. have you ever saw someone that you thought was good just because they looked beautiful or handsome, but found out that he/she was truly a horrible person. thats why most of my friends are people that others dont want to be friends with becxause they dont look beautiful or handsome like others. i hate how poeple in the world only care about looking good on the outside. but people really need to understand that it is the way you are inside is what really matters in life today.

Yuki · Post by **Yuki** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:56 am

Uncle Remus wrote:sometimes i wsh i was blind so it can be easier to tell which people are good and which people are not good. have you ever saw someone that you thought was good just because they looked beautiful or handsome, but found out that he/she was truly a horrible person. thats why most of my friends are people that others dont want to be friends with becxause they dont look beautiful or handsome like others. i hate how poeple in the world only care about looking good on the outside. but people really need to understand that it is the way you are inside is what really matters in life today.

Ever seen Shallow Hal?

I saw this machine on tv a while ago, it was something that helped the blind see!

I've been trying to recall the name of the machine or something, but I just can't. Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or am I just crazy?

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:01 am

Yuki wrote: Ever seen Shallow Hal?

I saw this machine on tv a while ago, it was something that helped the blind see! I've been trying to recall the name of the machine or something, but I just can't. Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or am I just crazy?

No i have never seen Shallow Hal. i have heard of the movie but i have never seen it.

No offense but I do think you are crazy. i dont think i have ever in my life heard of a machine that can make blind people see. i once was taught what it is like to be blind and boy is it hard.

Yuki · Post by **Yuki** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:05 am

Uncle Remus wrote: No offense but I do think you are crazy. i dont think i have ever in my life heard of a machine that can make blind people see. i once was taught what it is like to be blind and boy is it hard.

Yeah...that's what I was thinking.(ah! I'm going insane!

) But I specifically remember seeing a machine that helped the blind see letters and stuff...
Or maybe it was just that, it only improved vision with people who could hardly see...
But now that sounds like I'm talking about glasses...

I just asked my sister if she remembers what I'm talking about, and she faintly remembers seeing that on television as well...maybe our insanity runs in the family?

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:15 am

Yuki wrote:
Yeah...that's what I was thinking.(ah! I'm going insane! ) But I specifically remember seeing a machine that helped the blind see letters and stuff...
Or maybe it was just that, it only improved vision with people who could hardly see...
But now that sounds like I'm talking about glasses...

I just asked my sister if she remembers what I'm talking about, and she faintly remembers seeing that on television as well...maybe our insanity runs in the family?

now you said you and your sister saw this machine on TV. could it have been that this machine you saw was something from the Simpsons since i see your signatures are from the show. (i also like the Simpsons in case you're wondering)

Yuki · Post by **Yuki** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:23 am

Uncle Remus wrote:now you said you and your sister saw this machine on TV. could it have been that this machine you saw was something from the Simpsons since i see your signatures are from the show. (i also like the Simpsons in case you're wondering)

Maybe! But I'm pretty sure that it wasn't animated, in fact, I'm almost positive. Still a good thought, though!

AwallaceUNC · Post by **AwallaceUNC** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:29 am

Uncle Remus wrote:
Yuki wrote: Ever seen Shallow Hal?

I saw this machine on tv a while ago, it was something that helped the blind see! I've been trying to recall the name of the machine or something, but I just can't. Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or am I just crazy?
No i have never seen Shallow Hal. i have heard of the movie but i have never seen it.

No offense but I do think you are crazy. i dont think i have ever in my life heard of a machine that can make blind people see. i once was taught what it is like to be blind and boy is it hard.

I've never heard of the machine, either, but it doesn't sound impossible. If they aren't 100% blind, then I think it's possible that a machine could enhance, or perhaps provide greater focus or light/color contrast, their vision. Who knows, it sounds interesting.

-Aaron

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:40 am

well it could have been a machine created by Professor Frink:

"To operate this machine, you connect these two small cables to each of your eyelids and you stick this big huge wire up your hine-ey-ow-hurts-a-lot.-with the pain and blood and digestive waste rushing out from that end-. then you flip on the switch to this machine and OH-GOD-THE-PAIN-THE-PAIN-OW!!!"

Sekaino Jasmine · Post by **Sekaino Jasmine** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:06 am

Okay, about this machine that helps the blind see...it's actually a camera that's connected to the part of the brain that helps a person see or something like that. The blind person cannot see perfectly. I think that they can just see the outlines of people and objects. Something like that. I don't remember exactly how it works, but it's real, okay? I think they're just experimenting right now with it...

mvealf · Post by **mvealf** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:15 am

Sekaino Jasmine wrote:Okay, about this machine that helps the blind see...it's actually a camera that's connected to the part of the brain that helps a person see or something like that. The blind person cannot see perfectly. I think that they can just see the outlines of people and objects. Something like that. I don't remember exactly how it works, but it's real, okay? I think they're just experimenting right now with it...

Yes, it is a real machine. Supposedly, it can only work with people who had eyesight, then lost it. Because the brain still knows what to do with the information, the camera of they eye is just replaced with a computer, and it looks very digital. The more they refine this, the better the picture quality would be. They had a special on 20/20 about it, with Stevie Wonder. He was wanting to see if it would work on him.

AwallaceUNC · Post by **AwallaceUNC** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:18 am

Very cool! Did he go through with it?

-Aaron

DVDizzy Forum

Latest Movie Reviews

🎬 DVDizzy Top Stories️️

Do the blind see...

Do the blind see...

color perception variations aka "color blindness"

Re: Do the blind see...