Here is an interesting interview I found from the website Watermark. In it, Jodi Benson talks about her new book, The Little Mermaid , and its LGBTQ legacy. She talks about why she thinks the movie has resonated so much with the LGBTQ community. This interview is interesting to me because it's the first time I've ever heard of her addressing the community, and it puts to rest rumors that she was homophobic due to her being so deeply religious. Here is an excerpt.
The film has a number of other ties to the LGBTQ community, from the fairytale’s writer Hans Christian Andersen’s same-sex romances to Ursula’s design being based on Divine, the drag queen.
Yep, absolutely.
Have you long been aware of some of those connections and the film’s LGBTQ fan base?
Absolutely. There’s not a convention, there’s not a meet and greet, there’s not an audio or video podcast or interview that goes by – it happens every time – where someone will share their story. Everyone shares their story with me and I love that. There’s not a day of work that goes by without someone telling me, “I found my voice, I found my identity.”
The film is really special, the character is special and the company is special. I’m just thrilled that I get to be a little bitty part of all of it. It’s Howard’s giftedness and his love and his empathy. His inclusion, his thinking outside of the box in how to connect with all people, with everyone, he just did it so beautifully in the midst of his own personal struggles and suffering. That’s mind blowing, it really is. [After also writing the lyrics for Disney’s “Beauty and the Beast” and many for “Aladdin,” Ashman died of an AIDS-related illness at 40 years old in 1991.]
Your faith is a part of your life, work and book. Do you have a message for LGBTQ fans who may have a complicated relationship with organized religion?
Yeah, I’m gonna say I do too. (Laughs.) I have a complicated relationship with organized religion, too. It’s interesting – first of all, let’s just be really honest, I did not want to write this book. You’ll see that on the very first page, never in a million years did I want to write a book. Tyndale came to me and I said, “No, absolutely not. Hell will have to freeze over. Literally, no way, and I’m definitely not going with a publishing company who publishes Bibles. I’m not doing that. This is not a Christian book.”
“Love the sinner, hate the sin” is what we were always taught. That’s the formula that has worked for me regarding the relationship between myChristianity and my homosexuality... and many other things as well. I don’t know Jodi nor do I plan to read her book, but I know many believers like her and her husband and that’s how many of them reconcile their faith with the reality of the ways of the world. I know this board is majority homosexual (or it SEEMS that way) as am I. I love my boyfriend but we have been celibate by choice for years as we seek to follow Our Lord and His teachings as faithfully as we can. And when we fail (in all matters, not just sexual) we seek forgiveness and start again. I love all of you who have shared my love for Disney over the last 14 years.
The part about praying for forgiveness when you're weak (in sexual matters as much as anything else) is also what I believe and do.
I was glad for these comments from Benson. I never believed any insinuations she hated LGBT even if she could possibly have religious beliefs on the subject, since she worked with Howard Ashman even before TLM, was always a part of remembrances to him, and she has to have known for a very long time that TLM has a heavy LGBT fanbase. No way she hasn't been approached by many a gay fan in her time, I'm sure.
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ "Elizabeth Taylor"
Katy Perry ~ "bandaid"
Meghan Trainor ~ "Still Don't Care"
carolinakid wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:06 am
“Love the sinner, hate the sin” is what we were always taught. That’s the formula that has worked for me regarding the relationship between myChristianity and my homosexuality.
How does that work? I mean, most Christians believe homosexuality itself to be a sin. If you hate the sin in this case, its hating a vital part of who you are.
Wow, thank God Jodi said that! So she doesn't hate homosexuals or think they are burning in Hell! She loved all of Howard and also all her fans! Thank you so much, Cheshire_Cat.
I used to be celibate on purpose because I believed gay sex to be a sin. Now, I have realized going against how my brain, which, yep, wants gay sex, hurts me (mentally, not just emotionally. Like, my brain hurts). It is going against how I was made. No one made me gay except God after all. And you can choose to believe I chose to be gay on purpose or some bullshit, but I never did, it's how my brain works, I was born gay. Anyway, I can't believe God would wanna cause me pain by going against who I am, or want me to lose out on love and, yup, sexual pleasure, whether it be on Earth or even in Heaven. So, I believe God wants me to be gay and have gay sex. The Bible says a lot of stuff I don't believe. I mean, it has four contradicting accounts of Jesus and lists old rules that later Jesus says you don't have to follow anymore (or so I have heard, I never read the whole Bible. Plan to one day). I'm a gay man who wants to enjoy life and still believe in God and the Bible's words that I agree with.
And Kyle, for your information, the Bible only condemns having gay sex, not just being gay.
I personally find it.. astonishing, to say the least, that people lead their life following a more than 2000 year old book to the letter, when even last weeks TV guide feels out dated. While The Bible, or other scriptures, might provide valuable life lessons and things to strive for (which common sense and decency also cover) it was written within the context of a society that was far less "advanced" on certain issues than current times. And what really rubs me the wrong way is when scripture is interpreted and then cherry picked for specific lines as ammo for people to judge, condemn and demand their way off life. Wether others subscribe to set religion or not. Organised religion might operate under the pretext of love and uniting people, but it does the polar opposite in many cases. When two consenting adults love each other and chose to consummate that relationship it is nobody's business but their own. It does not influence or harm anyone and should there be a God who condemns love in the afterlife, then we'll deal with that when the time comes. Condemning love should never be a part of life, in any capacity. But that is my humble opinion. Of course it is up to everyone individually to determine how they chose to live their life, I just hope they do not withhold themselves from a full life of love and all aspects that come with it, to in the end be disappointed and having missed the full living experience when the afterlife turns out to be different than what they bargained for...
Well, robster16, no one follows the Bible to the letter, but if people today follow some of a more than 2,000 year old book, that must be some book, with something in it that will always speak to humanity.
Oh it probably is. But a lot of it is religious doctrine which is not fit for current times and probably not meant for current times. What is also very frustrating is the rather relentless cherry picking by religious conservatives to condemn, judge and control the lives of for instance LGBT people. The fact that you feel, in a sense, limited in your love life shouldn't have to happen. Why should anyone feel they need to limit their love because of centuries old scripture and no evidence from said creator that this is exactly what it wants? If there was a creator and it had problems with same sex relationships, why then create LGBT people. I want to reiterate, you should do whatever you seem fit and feel good with. I just will not be pushed into a corner with feelings of shame, guilt and judgement by anyone because I love someone.
But robster16, religious doctrine is fit for even these times. If it wasn't, no one today would be religious. I'm not saying all of it fits, but some of it does. Also, I do feel the creator I believe in does let me know he wants me to love in any way I want, by how it hurts me when I try to go against how I want to love. I agree with you very much in the way that everyone should be able to have romantic love, as long as it's between consenting people and not incest or pedophilia.
I always felt a lot of conflict between my morality and The Bible, and it really wasn't until I settled that The Bible is a creation of man and therefor can be flawed that I really found peace with it. I now view the book as a tool to help navigate a peaceful life and not exactly a rule book. I think it provides good morals, and lays out how to be a good person overall, but not unlike a fairy tale it's not supposed to be taken literally.
The book itself is like the longest and most famous game of telephone and its stories were told orally for hundreds/thousands of years before ever being written. Beyond that, it's been translated over and over and edited by churches to fit their needs at the time. At that point any literal word is sort of lost and all of you have left are the morals and theme. Anyhow that's my logistic side speaking, but my spiritual side tells me God has made me how I'm supposed to be and I'm at peace with it.
As for Jodi Benson, I'm glad an article like this exists to kind of clear the air. I don't know her personally, but I went to the same college she did and now I live near the area she grew up. So I've made a lot of connections with people who do know her and she's always seemed supportive of the LGBT Community and an ally through them.
I’m glad the interview points to the issue of organized religion. Spirituality and faith are wonderful things. I doubt Jesus, Buddha or Mohammed had intended for their words to be twisted and used against entire groups of people. Yet we’re stuck with institutions like the churches and mosques that don’t pay income tax and push hatred and bigotry into society, while accumulating obscene amounts of money by parasitizing on the working class.
I doubt Jodi is a bad person. I believe the majority of people of faith are good people. But organized religion will have its day in court if we are able to keep our democracies through the story years ahead.
I really like what you said, singerguy04. I agree with a lot, and I'm so glad you are at peace, too. It's also very nice how you relate to Jodi.
PatrickvD, I think Jesus wanted the church (he wanted a community that did God's will by loving, and church can mean religious community), so I don't think all organized religion is evil. I have even been to a church that was absolutely ok with homosexuality. We gotta take organized religion case by case and just get rid of the bad parts, though admittedly it would take a lot to do that with the Catholic church, and that's the one I go to. Who knows, maybe someday even the Catholic church will reform.
carolinakid wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:06 am
“Love the sinner, hate the sin” is what we were always taught. That’s the formula that has worked for me regarding the relationship between myChristianity and my homosexuality.
How does that work? I mean, most Christians believe homosexuality itself to be a sin. If you hate the sin in this case, its hating a vital part of who you are.
I think that previously, homosexuality was considered to be a sin - even in the absence of sex - but not any more.
I was raised Catholic, so I can only speak of what is taught in Roman Catholicism, but I am pretty sure that the last three popes did not consider homosexuality to be sinful in and of itself, and the church has updated itself accordingly.
Of course, gay sex is still considered sinful, and I understand and accept that, even if I do not really agree. I feel a lot like Duster in that regard, but I do not judge the Catholic church for remaining steadfast on the issue of sex.
I admit that while the church's ideas have changed, certain (older) priests may not have changed in synchrony. In my country, sometimes you hear of a priest who preaches something controversial in the Sunday sermon. The curia normally gets to know about it and the issue is dealt with. (I don't really know what happens in these cases.)
I think another thing to keep in mind concerning what I referenced before about churches altering the bible to fit their needs is that the book contradicts itself when considering homosexuality as a sin. I do believe in some iterations it is called a sin, yet it is not addressed as one by Jesus and is not a part of the 10 commandments. In some cases Leviticus was mistranslated in 1946, and was mistaken to mean homosexuality is abominable when scholars now believe the passage was more referring to pedophilia.
Regardless of all that, it makes sense to me that a growing religion would want it's followers to grow and a part of that would be through growing families. You would want your members to have children to feed into the growing population of your religion, and a sure fire way of doing that is to forbid homosexuality. In a competing world where other religions or cultures accepted homosexual relationships (looking at Greek and Roman cultures), it also helped separate and organize them as a different way of living. It also helps your cause to put the fear of damnation behind it to help ensure the people fall in line. I don't necessarily blame organized religion for doing something like this, but I think it's worth the time spent looking into what may be true theologically and what is just simply held onto for tradition's sake.
Great response, Jules. My understanding is that Christianity, orthodox Christianity at least, sees any sexual activity outside of marriage as not in accordance with God's plan. That includes homo as well as hetero sexual activity. In fact, most of the world’s religions have prohibitions against sex outside of marriage. Fortunately, in Christianity at least, any sin sincerely repented can be forgiven.
So it’s true, as Jules says, in Catholicism homosexuality in itself is not sinful. Gay people are to be treated with dignity and respect. This is a topic, however, that should be explored in depth on reliable Catholic websites rather than on a Disney fan site with sincere people who lack a theological background (that I know of).
I'm not Catholic, and so what the Pope thinks or doesn't think is meaningless to me. Most of what the Catholic Church does is innately wrong in my view, praying to saints and to Mary (I believe that started in an attempt to convert pagans who were used to worshiping many gods), believing people can only confess through a human priest when Jesus' sacrifice rent the veil and he became our High Priest who we speak to directly, etc.
Simply speaking for myself here, I am not a teacher--that's why I kept my thoughts brief before, I didn't want to mislead anyone by accident. So I put the disclaimer at the front that these are only my views and everyone has to look into these things for themselves. My personal understanding is that God abhors most sexuality, especially sex where there is only gratification and no love involved. Even for heterosexuals, celibacy and complete devotion to God would be preferable, but marriage / monogamy is the healthiest manner for sexual urges to be expressed by people who aren't strong enough for that. As far as homosexuality specifically, I don't really feel certain on the subject. The reason I don't attach that much weight to Leviticus is because it's one health law in a long list of health laws that include a multitude of impossible-to-do rules (like not wearing two different fabrics, a child who is disobedient should be stoned, etc.). Do you believe you're going to hell because you once ate a sausage or piece of bacon? But it is unhealthy to eat pork even if it won't keep you out of heaven if you repent. And then the story of Sodom & Gomorrah... To me, that story is mostly about not treating strangers well. People not being able to walk in the streets without violence, etc. The example in that story is one where a group of men want to commit rape--which is about cruelty and power--to a traveler who stays at Lot's house (who is an angel in disguise), not simply have sex. *shrug* Really the only other thing is in Romans. One could argue that that example is about people who are heterosexual going against their natural, heterosexual desires to have relations with the same sex. *shrug* Jesus makes no comment on it at all, likely seeing it as no worse or better than any other sin, which sets Him apart from a lot of preachers, pastors, etc. in the present who put 90% of their focus on it in comparison.
And the Law being impossible to live by is sort of the point...God sent it as a stumbling block to prove no man could get to heaven on their own, only through Him; if you break even one rule in the Law, it's the same as if you broke it all. Losing by a millimeter or losing by a mile, you still lose. Repenting sins regularly, renewal of the mind through Jesus, continually seeking Jesus, etc. is the way to heaven, not following the Law. The only "commands" Jesus gives is to love God (with all your heart, soul, mind, strength) and to love one another (treating another person like yourself, the Golden Rule). Those two commands cover the entire spirit of the Law anyway. I forget what part it was, I think it was when the people freed from Egypt were in the wilderness? I could have that wrong, but it's somewhere in the Old Testament I'm thinking of: the people asked (in a way I believe God saw as arrogant) for God to tell them what to do and they will do it, making it sound as if they could stand on their own works rather than be in continual relationship with Him. The Law is purposefully impossible to live by to show that mankind can /not/ live on their own works, only through faith in Jesus. IMO, everyone before Jesus was automatically going to Hell for that reason, that's why there was the Harrowing of Hell.
Still, I do wonder about my sexuality all the time. I just try to treat it the same as anything else, and repent whenever you're weak in sexual matters. *shrug* I don't believe being gay will keep you out of heaven at all. In Christ, even when we're weak, we are clean and not the sins we commit or have committed at any given time. I mean, I could be wrong, but I think a gay person being in a monogamous gay relationship wouldn't keep that person out of heaven as long as they repent for their weakness. But that's just my opinion, some people may disagree with that though, I can't really give a 100% certain answer. My personal beliefs are that the only /unforgivable/ sins have to do with the Antichrist.
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ "Elizabeth Taylor"
Katy Perry ~ "bandaid"
Meghan Trainor ~ "Still Don't Care"
You know Divinity, you wrote a really smart post last time in this thread, but I have some questions about you that have bugged me so much I'm finally writing them here after such a long time.
My first question is, if you think God abhors sexuality, why is it the greatest physical (not mental or emotional) feeling there is? Why would he make it that way?
Next is, if God abhors sexuality and prefers everyone be celibate, why would one of the main desires he has in the Bible be for people to populate the Earth, when that required sex, since there were no other methods back in that time?
Finally, by "repenting for their weakness", what weakness do you think people in a monogamous gay relationship have to repent for? Just gay sex?
I PMed you. By the way, I think it's neat that the link to your profile has the number 1951. Wouldn't it have been funny if it was 1950 like the year Cinderella was released?
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ "Elizabeth Taylor"
Katy Perry ~ "bandaid"
Meghan Trainor ~ "Still Don't Care"
