The Problem With Today's Disney Princesses

[Angeldude98]

Ok, I realize I might be in the minority with this opinion, but here is something to discuss and debate:

Why, oh WHY is Disney making the modern princesses so feminist and untraditional??? Fairytales should be set in their time periods. I hate it how they still set the fairytales in medieval times, yet the personalities (and values) of the princesses and other characters reflect modern thoughts and perceptions! What was so wrong with a more romantic plot for Frozen??? Why does Rapunzel have to be a 2000's teenager that throws tantrums? Why did they have Giselle save the hero when it should be the other way around? Why all the craze to empower women lately??? What's so wrong with making them FEMININE and playing up their femininity? They keep portraying the modern princess (or any other girl in film for that matter) basically as tomboys! Once women complained that they were always being typecast as weak and as damsels in distress uncapable of taking care of themselves. Now they're doing the same thing to us men, and frankly, that's discriminating to us!!! The message nowadays is that women no longer need us (except to have babies if they want) and they can do anything we can. Modern films seem to suggest that traditional male and female roles are outdated and that male chivalry is dead and offensive to today's feminist women (Don't you dare open a door or pull a chair for a woman nowadays! It's offensive to them! Sheesh!!!!)! I for one think that men are and will always be the stronger sex, and while I support women's rights, I value traditional roles. The man is the leader and the head of the family, not the other way around, and I find it highly offensive that we are being relegated to being weaklings and unimportant in films. Take for instance, Tiana and Naveen in "The Princess and The Frog" she was made to be hard-working, strong and decisive, while Naveen was made to be a bufoon who didn't even know how to do anything for himself! That is so offensive to men!!!!! Yeah, they do get married and live happily ever after... after SHE teaches him how to be a man, and they live with HER restaurant business, rather than having HIM take her to be HIS princess in HIS kingdom. I think feminisim has really gotten out of control and I think that Dsiney princesses and film heroines should revert to being sweet FEMININE damsels that must be won over by the charms of the prince (yeah, I do agree that love shouldn't be portrayed at first sight and should come after the prince proves he's worthy... I did like how Hans turned out to be the villain in "Frozen". Good message there), and the princes and men in the films should be the heroes. What do you think?

PS. Let's discuss and debate this amicably. It's just a way to express opinions, not attack each other for our differences in opinion. State your own without attacking others'.

[Lady Cluck]

I find this post very distasteful and regressive. Not every modern princess is a "tomboy" anyway. It's called having agency and personality.

NOTHING about Disney movies has ever been realistic (most involve some sort of magic) so there's no reason why the women have to be oppressed and inert just because they were in real life society

[Disney's Divinity]

I think a female character can be both empowered and feminine, and most of the new characters are that. The only Disney princess I think of as a tomboy is, maybe, Mulan? And possibly a little of Ariel, with the treasure hunting, I guess? I've never thought of Tiana, Anna, or Elsa as tomboys, and they are all very different from one another to me.

I don't know how having empowered female characters is demeaning to men, but okay. And "feminine" doesn't equal weak and submissive to me. I'd rather not have more damsels like the Walt-era, personally.

[Angeldude98]

The problem is that most of us men prefer submissive women that will lean and depend on us, rather than strong-willed women that'll fight us to no end to get their way! Personally, when looking for women to date I avoid the strong feminist type like the plague!!! I prefer feminine, demure and submissive damsels that I can protect and be chivalrous to. That's just my personal preference.

Now, as far as films go, If you find what I said offensive and repressive, I and many other men find it offensive and discriminatory to us that we are now the ones being relegated to being portrayed as weak buffoons that are not needed by today's strong women.

The latest films are all about showing girl power and making them break the molds and the rules (Merida, for instance, Ariel, Jasmine, Mulan, Pocahontas...) and that's just Disney. But most films and TV shows nowadays are big on that. Merida and Ariel are portrayed as defiant and disobedient, but they are hailed for their strong character and strong will to get what they want. Jasmine is a picky b.... that basically says "it's my way or the highway dude!", Mulan is a tomboy that has no feminitiy at all (what does Shang possibly see in her?) and she is the one to destroy the villain. Why have Shang at all then? Pocahontas risks her whole tribe for disobeying her father's orders, and then she nearly has to sacrifice herself in order to fix the mess. But all of them are hailed as progressive and empowered females! Now, I'm not chauvinistic. But as I said before, I value traditional male and female roles in society and find it harmful to teach this kind of rhetoric to our girls. They are basically being taught that femininity and leaning on your man for love and support is wrong! So sad, really.

Oh, and how about that last scene in "Frozen" where Kristoff actually asks Anna for permission to kiss her??? How ridiculous is that? Where is the magic of that first kiss then? That should have been portrayed as happening naturally, both leaning in to kiss eachother at the same time for being in love with each other! That's magical! But asking her for permission??? And that plot point was celebrated and cheered everywhere! So now the guy can't even steal a kiss from the girl he loves? To me this whole thing has gotten way out of control! Really!!!!

[Disney's Divinity]

I'll be honest, I do find most of what your saying offensive. Regardless, I think you're creating a false equivalency be saying men are discriminated against now, which is completely ludicrous. Though characters like Mulan, Tiana, and Anna/Elsa, for example, are given the agency to solve their own problems--as they shoud be, imo--Kristoff, Naveen, and Shang are not disempowered and at the mercy of their society like Cinderella, Snow White, and Aurora (and even Ariel and Jasmine) were. They don't sing about "Someday When My Princess Will Come," need their mother's permission to marry or do what they want, or get put to sleep while waiting for the women to come save them. And you're misusing the word "femininity" to mean weakness and passivity.

Personally, I don't think you speak for most men, although I'm sure there are many out there who do feel the same way you do about relationships. I would never want my child (whether they're a girl or a boy) to be taught that nonsense though. I don't believe in heads of households, but in partnerships. That's just me though.

[disneyprincess11]

You're joking, right?

[Angeldude98]

I'm sorry: The 1950s is *that* way. This is 2015, where we, women, actually know what our worth is and we are more that happy little maids & robots that let men treat us like slaves. That we are *gasp* people who have dreams, motivations, and goals, just like men. Guess I have to give my dream of being a story developer at Walt Disney Animation Studios to marry a 40 year old, so I can cater to his every will and whim and have 19 kids, instead of having a life. And how dare Disney brainwash little girls to go out and have adventures and goals, instead of falling in love with a man and give up herself to him like Snow White & Ariel!

Sexist men like you are the reason why there are feminists in the world and we have to call out men's foolishness. Go back to the 1950s.

See what I mean? That's 2015 feminist thinking already! Well, I excersize my rights to the freedoms of expression and speech. And I'll stand by what I believe. I'd like to hear the opinions of the men who are not too chicken to say how they really feel about this issue. You feminists think that being feminine and submissive is being weak, and that's not true at all. You can have all the dreams and goals you like and pursue them. But that does not include making our lives as your men miserable and lording it over us in every desicion. I have seen guys being berated to no end when they try to assert themselves to their feminist and "progressive" 2015 women who will not accept their authority... ever! To them it's their way or the highway because their dreams, their life, their everything comes first. There is no willing to compromise or work as a team. Now, I'm not generalizing. I know there are exceptions, of course. And to each his own, at that.

[Lady Cluck]

The problem is that most of us men prefer submissive women that will lean and depend on us, rather than strong-willed women that'll fight us to no end to get their way

oh dear sexist mens rights activists are the worst and don't get it

[Lady Cluck]

Oh, and how about that last scene in "Frozen" where Kristoff actually asks Anna for permission to kiss her??? How ridiculous is that?

this is beyond disturbing...

[disneyprincess11]

See what I mean? That's 2015 feminist thinking already! Well, I excersize my rights to the freedoms of expression and speech. And I'll stand by what I believe. I'd like to hear the opinions of the men who are not too chicken to say how they really feel about this issue. You feminists think that being feminine and submissive is being weak, and that's not true at all. You can have all the dreams and goals you like and pursue them. But that does not include making our lives as your men miserable and lording it over us in every desicion. I have seen guys being berated to no end when they try to assert themselves to their feminist and "progressive" 2015 women who will not accept their authority... ever! To them it's their way or the highway because their dreams, their life, their everything comes first. There is no willing to compromise or work as a team. Now, I'm not generalizing. I know there are exceptions, of course. And to each his own, at that.

Ok, first of all:

How DARE:
Rapunzel refusing to get back to the tower to get more abuse after she went outside for the first time to see the world!
Tiana changing Naveen to a better guy and having goals to herself!
Disney introducing an evil Disney prince who used a girl to be a king before killing her sister! I mean, screw the other princes who are more boring than stale bread or saved their women. Hans is the TRUE Disney Prince.
Giselle rescuing a man from getting killed by a psycho-woman! Same with Pochontas.
Ariel for going out and reaching her dreams!
Jasmine and Merida for being evil *you know whats* by knowing they're not objects & prizes to random men and refusing to marry a stranger and finding their own loves.

And most of all:
How dare Kristoff for ASKING a girl's permission to kiss him, instead of doing something I can't say in a message board. Anna should give herself to him ANYTIME he wants with no choices, instead of being respectful to her and give her courtesy!

Second: This is beyond degrading and insulting to women. You make me sick.

[sunhuntin]

im curious to know how many women youve dated who fit your little box of acceptability. forgive what im about to say, and i mean no offence to anyone, but chances are only women who would fit that mould would be amish or from a similar background. females in general just arent like that anymore, thank goodness.

[UmbrellaFish]

I'd like to hear the opinions of the men who are not too chicken to say how they really feel about this issue.

Well, you asked for it. I'm a dude, I see women as my equal and believe feminism is a positive force in our society. I applaud Disney's progressive female heroines, and I hope they continue to move forward in their characterization of females. So there.

[Jay]

Lol Mulan is not a tomboy at all. I feel like nobody really understands Mulan's character. A lot of people like to say she is this tough as nails, badass tomboy when that is the furthest thing from the truth. And the princess line always puts her in her matchmaker dress which is when Mulan felt the least like herself. But it's her most princessy outfit so that is what she gets stuck in. She is a reserved, shy, dutiful young woman who likes honor and tradition. She doesn't even go to war to kickass and take names she does it to protect her father. And she uses her smarts and her own strengths to beat the Huns and it takes her time to do so. She is not some blood thirsty warrior.

Mulan isn't even my favorite character or film but it annoys me how people always call her a tomboy. Merida is way more of a tomboy. I would consider Pocahontas more of a tomboy than Mulan actually.

[Lady Cluck]

I agree. A big chunk of the movie is about Mulan NOT fitting in with the men. She just felt she had to do what she did out of duty, honor, and protecting her father. She wasn't dying to go out and fight, but she wanted to prove her worth.

She didn't do well in the matchmaking ceremony due to klutziness and just not caring about such silly traditions. I'm sure this poster would prefer arranged marriages still exist though

[ProfessorRatigan]

Is this guy even real? I mean, he has to be trolling, right?

The problem is that most of us men prefer submissive women that will lean and depend on us, rather than strong-willed women that'll fight us to no end to get their way! Personally, when looking for women to date I avoid the strong feminist type like the plague!!! I prefer feminine, demure and submissive damsels that I can protect and be chivalrous to. That's just my personal preference.

...I'm so grateful that I was born male sometimes. For no other reason than not having to put up with nonsense like this. Oy.

[Disney Duster]

I thought Kristoff's kiss with Anna should have been more romantic like him starting to move and her showing her interest and then they both kiss as equally both wanting to. When you have already established you love each other, as they did, getting to kiss the other when you want to is usually an unspoken thing.

Anyway, yea, femininity doesn't mean submissiveness and weakness.

However, I am annoyed at how sometimes the "female empowering" of the Disney princesses feels so forced and obvious and unnatural/untrue to how a girl like them would act. And I do prefer it when girls act more "Disney princessy" and thus demure, but I still want them to do what it takes to make themselves happy.

[Lady Cluck]

The only reason being submissive and demure are classic Disney Princess qualities is because those were the expectations of women in general when the early Disney movies were made. Thankfully society has moved on, and the art of our culture reflects that.

[Prince Edward]

I thought Kristoff's kiss with Anna should have been more romantic like him starting to move and her showing her interest and then they both kiss as equally both wanting to. When you have already established you love each other, as they did, getting to kiss the other when you want to is usually an unspoken thing.

Anyway, yea, femininity doesn't mean submissiveness and weakness.

However, I am annoyed at how sometimes the "female empowering" of the Disney princesses feels so forced and obvious and unnatural/untrue to how a girl like them would act. And I do prefer it when girls act more "Disney princessy" and thus demure, but I still want them to do what it takes to make themselves happy.

I agree with you. I hope this forced "female empowering" is not the new style of every (animated) Disney fairytale movie. When Tangled was released, Rapunzel was hailed by Disney's marketing as a "new kind of Disney princess". She was independent, did not need a man etc. And with "Brave", the same thing happened again with that oh so annoying, despicable and ugly Merida. Then Pixar went all "this is a new kind of princess totally unlike all the Disney princesses, blablabla" (typical Lasseter really, "Pixar" invented the wheel", as if Disney animation did not do anything right before Pixar came along). And with "Frozen", we was told the same yet again. "New kind of Disney princess: independent, feminist, don't need a man etc".

What about Ariel? Belle? Jasmine? Pocahontas? Megara? Mulan? Have not people in the media who wrote all those articles about the new feminist Disney princesses seen those movies? Even worse, have Disney themselves forgotten all about them? When "Moana" comes in a few years, will we yet again hear talk of a new kind of Disney princess, a "strong woman" who do not need a man and who do not care for romance?

I actually missed the element of romance in "Frozen", I think it would have been a better storyline if there was more romance in that movie. Also, the male characters got to little attention if you ask me: Disney could have cut the trolls and given more time to develop the characters of Kristoff and Hans (as well as Elsa).

Frozen could have benefitted from a touch of romance: Kristoff should actually have ended up with Elsa if you ask me - they both have grown up lonely and Kristoff loves ice. Or Hans could have been a good guy and ended up with Elsa. Or Kristoff and Anna could at least been a bit more romantic at the end of the movie. It seems to me that Disney was afraid to make romance a part of the tale. This movie was intended as a sister's tale and therefore there was no room for a man or romance there. It seems they could not have both the sisters element and make it a love story at the same time. It's like they was fishing for the approval of the media and the public: "Oh, Disney are so progressive, now they're princesses are feminist and don't have to be saved by a man. Oh, that's so much better then the previous hopeless damsels in distress." (Cue Disney Store: "Disney princesses are all about buying our pretty Disney dresses... eh, all about feminism and "strong women", that is".)

I'm afraid that upcoming Disney fairytales will continue this new trend, where only female characters seems to get the main attention. Sort of: "The princesses sells the dresses and dolls at the Disney store, so why bother to give the male roles much screentime. Also, "feminist, new Disney princesses" that does not need men are what the media/internet wants.", and "Romance is so 1950s or so 1990s, let's make a movie about a "strong woman" instead." I hope upcoming Disney fairytales can move beyond that forced "look, Disney is modern and our leading women are strong women who don't need men", give the male roles more screentime, and don't shy away from adding a bit more of romance to the storytelling.

Beside, one thing about Frozen annoyed me especially: How Anna treats Hans at the ending of the movie. Had Anna been a male character and Hans a female character, it would have caused huge drama and public outcry. And if that is not discrimination based on genders, I don't know what is. But Anna treating Hans the way she did somewhat seemed to "crown" the movie as a movie about "strong, independent women". I think that Anna's behavoir towards Hans was very forced and totally uncalled for, it just made her character less likeable.

[Disney's Divinity]

I have seen guys being berated to no end when they try to assert themselves to their feminist and "progressive" 2015 women who will not accept their authority... ever! To them it's their way or the highway because their dreams, their life, their everything comes first.

Well, how are you any different? You wouldn't submit to a woman's authority, why should a woman want to submit to a man's? If most men would prefer a woman to be submissive (which I don't agree is true, but for argument's sake), it's only because people are innately selfish. All men and women would prefer a spouse who submits to their will and meets all their needs without ever having any desires of their own or difference of opinion.

Or Kristoff and Anna could at least been a bit more romantic at the end of the movie. It seems to me that Disney was afraid to make romance a part of the tale. This movie was intended as a sister's tale and therefore there was no room for a man or romance there. It seems they could not have both the sisters element and make it a love story at the same time.

How is that any different than Brother Bear or Big Hero 6, where there are brothers and no love interests?

The flaw with most of your post is that most of your criticisms are based on media reactions to these films, and not the films themselves. TP&TF, Tangled, and Frozen all feature romance and strong male characters.

[Prince Edward]

Disney's Divinity, I can see your point - but I'll try to explain my point of view: Brother Bear and Big Hero 6 are not fairytales. And I have always associated the Disney fairytales with romance and quite frankly I appreciate romance as a vital part of the storyline in Disney fairytales. Therefore I would not be happy if this is the start of a new trend where romance will no longer play a key part in upcoming fairytales - because of Disney thinking of romance as something that went out of fashion with the old classic movies.

If people can't meet and fall in love "at first sight" in Disney movies any longer (Frozen made fun of the whole concept of "true love at first sight"), then all we will be getting in the future might be endings like those we got in "Mulan" and "Frozen" - where two characters perhaps share a shy/awkward kiss (at most), and then we'll leave them thinking that they might start dating and perhaps end up together. But we'll never know for sure.

When it comes to the part about media writing about Tangled, Brave and Frozen as if each movie was the first that featured "strong women", it's my impression that Disney did nothing to stop that absurd view. In fact, it seems to me that the made it a key point themselves. Especially Lasseter.