Mother Gothel...loved Rapunzel? Discussion.

[DC Fan]

Do you think Gothel ever felt love for Rapunzel?

...obviously we´re talking in her own sick, twisted way.

I believe so.

Why?

-She didn´t have to pretend to be her mother; look how Frollo handled the same situation.

-The way she´s always showing her affection.

-She had her living with everything she ever needed and more; giving her birthday gifts and spending time with her.

To me, she could very well had her mistreated and like a real prisoner. She didn´t need to giver her or show her any kind of soft side.

So, what do you think?

[271286]

I think she loved to control her... And she loved what Rapunzel's powers gave her... As for the loving the person Rapunzel, no probably not.

As for pretending to be her mother, that might just be a way to entice her. Being her mother makes it harder for Rapunzel to hate her. The bonds between parent's and children, no matter how bad the relationship is, is still a stronger bond then the bond between a child and a stranger. It's definaltely harder for Rapunzel to rebel against her mother - just for the reason that she is her mother...

As for giving her gifts it's probably just another way to keep Rapunzel where she is... Treating Rapunzel kindly makes it easier for her to rebel against Gothel.

Treating Rapunzel well, means that Rapunzel has more loving feelings towards her, and it's easier to control her that way... So it's all to her own benefit...

[DC Fan]

That´s kind of what I´m saying.

Let´s see...

When you´re in a good mood because something goes your way or get something you always wanted you feel so overflowing with joy that it spreads. Like you need to show/share that happiness.

And I believe that´s kind of what happened to the point that eventually got to feel something for her.

I´m watching the movie right now after the discussion Rapunzel had with Gothel regarding leaving the tower and:

1. She goes a 3 day trip just to get her paint.

What person would make that effort for someone that doesn´t like?

2. When Gothel is hugging Rapunzel and kisses her.

She truly meant it by the way she closed her eyes and how tender she was.

Rapunzel wasn´t seeing her. She could have made an expression of disgust.

[271286]

That´s kind of what I´m saying.

Let´s see...

When you´re in a good mood because something goes your way or get something you always wanted you feel so overflowing with joy that it spreads. Like you need to show/share that happiness.

And I believe that´s kind of what happened to the point that eventually got to feel something for her.

I´m watching the movie right now after the discussion Rapunzel had with Gothel regarding leaving the tower and:

1. She goes a 3 day trip just to get her paint.

What person would make that effort for someone that doesn´t like?

2. When Gothel is hugging Rapunzel and kisses her.

She truly meant it by the way she closed her eyes and how tender she was.

Rapunzel wasn´t seeing her. She could have made an expression of disgust.

Updated my post, it was a bit of a short answer...

My point is that it's not love... It's all for selfish reasons. That being said I wish she did love her just a little bit... I have only seen Tangled once in the cinema, and Im gonna rewatch it again soon, I really liked it... I hope to see more of human nuances to Gothel as I really liked her character (the character they built for her) but maybe that's just because she has a hot bod'

Maybe Gothel is not as evil as other Disney villains. She's not evil evil. She is just too obsessed with herself to love anyone else.

[frankf3]

I believed Mother Gothel loved Rapunzel is an disturbing way. Gothel loved Rapunzel for her long hair that kept her young for so long. I mean, compare her to Judge Frollo, who is much more cruel when it comes to keeping someone locked up in a tower

At least Rapunzel has things like books, pottery, and paint to occupy her time. Plus, when Rapunzel asked for more paint on her birthday, Gothel actually went out to get some before she got suspicious with the horse and went back to the tower.

[Elladorine]

I seriously believe she has narcissistic personality disorder; well, you know, if a cartoon character could actually possess a real disease. She basically lacks the ability to carry any empathy for others. Every single thing she does, even under the guise being helpful and caring to Rapunzel, is done solely for her own benefit. She needs to be feel pretty and be showered with praise. She's manipulative and puts Rapunzel down in order to inflate her own self-esteem. She gives out back-handed compliments on a whim and cannot handle criticism. She feeds into Rapunzel's insecurities in order to induce her agoraphobia. Her controlling manner dictates that everything within the little world she's created exists only to serve her. Any supposed kindness that she does show Rapunzel (i.e. going to great lengths to get her paint) is only done to make her feel loved in hopes of preventing her from from sneaking out or altogether leaving. The fact Gothel is willing to keep Rapunzel chained (both metaphorically and even literally) shows just how incapable she is of feeling and expressing any appreciation or genuine love for the "daughter" she supposedly devoted her life to. The only person she was ever devoted to was herself.

[DC Fan]

Look at this Donna Murphy interview where she actually believes Gothel loved her; 1:50.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqEyl0msaB0[/youtube]

[Disney Duster]

I agree with those who say she did love her. It was love below the love she had for herself, but it was still love nonetheless.

Why would Mother Gothel give so many things and hugs and kisses to Rapunzel, including a three tray trip to get paint, when she could have made her a prisoner who was gratified with just recieving any kind of paint at all? Yea yea, so Rapunzel doesn't rebel, but she could have chained Rapunzel from the beginning so she never rebelled. She could have given her a chain that made her only able to move around the room and that's it. She didn't have to do the "I love you", "I love you more", "I love you most" bit.

Plus lets not forget in the original fairy tale it was implied the witch loved her.

[271286]

I seriously believe she has narcissistic personality disorder; well, you know, if a cartoon character could actually possess a real disease. She basically lacks the ability to carry any empathy for others. Every single thing she does, even under the guise being helpful and caring to Rapunzel, is done solely for her own benefit. She needs to be feel pretty and be showered with praise. She's manipulative and puts Rapunzel down in order to inflate her own self-esteem. She gives out back-handed compliments on a whim and cannot handle criticism. She feeds into Rapunzel's insecurities in order to induce her agoraphobia. Her controlling manner dictates that everything within the little world she's created exists only to serve her. Any supposed kindness that she does show Rapunzel (i.e. going to great lengths to get her paint) is only done to make her feel loved in hopes of preventing her from from sneaking out or altogether leaving. The fact Gothel is willing to keep Rapunzel chained (both metaphorically and even literally) shows just how incapable she is of feeling and expressing any appreciation or genuine love for the "daughter" she supposedly devoted her life to. The only person she was ever devoted to was herself.

Exactly what I tried to say... Haha I need to seriously brush up my english

Although I do believe she is one of the lesser evil Disney characters, she's not evil per-se she's just a very self obsessed person.

[DC Fan]

I agree with those who say she did love her. It was love below the love she had for herself, but it was still love nonetheless.

Why would Mother Gothel give so many things and hugs and kisses to Rapunzel, including a three tray trip to get paint, when she could have made her a prisoner who was gratified with just recieving any kind of paint at all? Yea yea, so Rapunzel doesn't rebel, but she could have chained Rapunzel from the beginning so she never rebelled. She could have given her a chain that made her only able to move around the room and that's it. She didn't have to do the "I love you", "I love you more", "I love you most" bit.

Plus lets not forget in the original fairy tale it was implied the witch loved her.

Also, she cooked for her. And not just any food. She made the food that Rapunzel had as favorite.

....Frollo contrast:

He brought any kind of food to Quasimodo. On top of that made him place the table and everything.

So, in the end he barely satisfied his needs. To Frollo Quasimodo was a burden.

...and yes, Rapunzel had something Gothel needed/wanted. Still, as said, she could have handled the situation in a Frollo kind of way.

Also, just because Rapunzel had the hair Gothel needed she´s not less of a "burden" to her. After all, she had to raise her since she was a baby and look out for her.

[disneyboy20022]

I seriously believe she has narcissistic personality disorder; well, you know, if a cartoon character could actually possess a real disease. She basically lacks the ability to carry any empathy for others. Every single thing she does, even under the guise being helpful and caring to Rapunzel, is done solely for her own benefit. She needs to be feel pretty and be showered with praise. She's manipulative and puts Rapunzel down in order to inflate her own self-esteem. She gives out back-handed compliments on a whim and cannot handle criticism. She feeds into Rapunzel's insecurities in order to induce her agoraphobia. Her controlling manner dictates that everything within the little world she's created exists only to serve her. Any supposed kindness that she does show Rapunzel (i.e. going to great lengths to get her paint) is only done to make her feel loved in hopes of preventing her from from sneaking out or altogether leaving. The fact Gothel is willing to keep Rapunzel chained (both metaphorically and even literally) shows just how incapable she is of feeling and expressing any appreciation or genuine love for the "daughter" she supposedly devoted her life to. The only person she was ever devoted to was herself.

Where do I deposit my 5 cents for this session?

[271286]

I agree with those who say she did love her. It was love below the love she had for herself, but it was still love nonetheless.

Why would Mother Gothel give so many things and hugs and kisses to Rapunzel, including a three tray trip to get paint, when she could have made her a prisoner who was gratified with just recieving any kind of paint at all? Yea yea, so Rapunzel doesn't rebel, but she could have chained Rapunzel from the beginning so she never rebelled. She could have given her a chain that made her only able to move around the room and that's it. She didn't have to do the "I love you", "I love you more", "I love you most" bit.

Plus lets not forget in the original fairy tale it was implied the witch loved her.

Also, she cooked for her. And not just any food. She made the food that Rapunzel had as favorite.

....Frollo contrast:

He brought any kind of food to Quasimodo. On top of that made him place the table and everything.

So, in the end he barely satisfied his needs. To Frollo Quasimodo was a burden.

...and yes, Rapunzel had something Gothel needed/wanted. Still, as said, she could have handled the situation in a Frollo kind of way.

Also, just because Rapunzel had the hair Gothel needed she´s not less of a "burden" to her. After all, she had to raise her since she was a baby and look out for her.

She's definately no Frollo. Obviously, but that doesn't mean she truly loved Rapunzel. She did treat Rapunzel 100 times better than Frollo treated Quasi. So as a person she's not as evil as say Frollo. But that doesn't mean she loved Rapunzel. Besides the nice gestures you already mentioned I don't see what she did for Rapunzel that should indicate that she truly loved her. If she had loved her, like really loved her; wouldn't she have supported her when she found true love?

You asked if Gothel loved Rapunzel, loving is not the same as liking - I'm sure Gothel liked Rapunzel, but had she loved her she would set her own needs aside for Rapunzel's happiness.

[DC Fan]

As said, she loved her by the standards possible for her. Not like everybody would.

Of course she wouldn´t support her love for Flynn. Because that meant letting her go.

[jazzflower92]

As said, she loved her by the standards possible for her. Not like everybody would.

Of course she wouldn´t support her love for Flynn. Because that meant letting her go.

I have a feeling you are giving Gothel the DILP treatment which means draco in leather pants treatment.

[Semaj]

It's weird. You would think living 18 years in seclusion would've warped Rapunzel in a significant way; on the border of being feral.

But nope, Mama Gothel raised a very smart daughter.

[Jay]

I think she did love Rapunzel . But she loved Rapunzel's hair more. Every time she shows affection to Rapunzel it's to her hair and not Rapunzel. She kisses her hair and runs her fingers through it. She sees Rapunzel herself as more of a pet. She feeds her, buys her things and tries to keep her entertained so she won't want to leave. Of course filling her head with ideas that the world is a terrible place helps that as well.

I think their little exchanges are pretty telling:

Gothel- I love you very much dear.
Rapunzel- I love you more.
Gothel- *running her fingers through her hair* I love you most.

Gothel didn't even want Rapunzel she tried to cut the hair at first but she saw when you cut the hair the magic dies. Gothel goes out of her way to make Rapunzel feel loved so she won't want to leave. She is really doing it for herself in the end. To keep Rapunzel in the tower so she can continue having her own personal fountain of youth.

[Disney's Divinity]

No, I don't think so. Look how quickly she puts Rapunzel in chains at the end. She probably saw Rapunzel like she saw the flower--not as a living thing with its own needs, but something to benefit herself. Perhaps she had an affection for Rapunzel in the same way you have an affection for people you work with/have classes with because you're always around each other, but love? I don't think so. She was a bit kinder than Frollo, but they work in different ways as villains; he believes in getting things done through punishment/cruelty, with the gypsies/the people of Paris, not just Quasi whereas she psychologically manipulates--or, in other words, abuses--Rapunzel to make her believe Gothel's words and never hate or disobey her. Besides, Gothel doesn't seem to have much of a life in the film, so the few things she does to simulate her mother role probably didn't bother her much. (Almost makes you wonder why she wants eternal life except to look in the mirror--she isn't even that pretty...)

I wish she did love Rapunzel though. She'd have been a more interesting character that way.

[Jay]

Yeah I wonder what the hell was she doing all those years before the flower was taken? She seemed to be a bit of a loner. Maybe she just became addicted to the flower in the same way people become addicted to drugs. She would get high off of the youth and extension of her life. Maybe she had a big fear of death? Maybe she would go out and seduce men?

What if it was like The Shining where the man sees her and he thinks she's all hot and sexy and they start making out and then she begins to age and get all haggish. And he realizes and freaks out and she just starts cackling haha.

[DC Fan]

Jay:

Great theory about the hair!

Didn´t stop to think or saw that.

Still, there are the facts of the 3 day trip or cooking Rapunzel her favorite dishes.

[PatrickvD]

According to what we humans interpret as love, no she did not love Rapunzel that way. But I do believe that in her own mind, Gothel was convinced she loved Rapunzel. It would have to be the only way to justify the twisted things she'd done to keep herself young and beautiful.

But in the end, everything she did was for her own benefit. Which is not love.