Where do collectors go from here?

[SWillie!]

Summary of this long post for anyone that doesn't want to read: As digital media rises and the quality of physical releases drops, where do movie collectors fit in? Can you see yourself collecting something in place of actual DVDs? Where do collectors go from here?

There's been a lot of discussion lately regarding Disney's lack of quality in their home entertainment releases. They unfortunately seem to care less and less with every release. Recycled (or awful) cover art, no disc art, lack of bonus features, inserts, etc. All the stuff that collectors love. And as much as I love these films, and as much as I want to own them, it's been making me question whether they are really worth buying. So I thought I'd put some of my thoughts down and hopefully start a conversation among fellow collectors: where do we go from here?

Ask yourself this: when you buy a DVD or blu-ray, is it solely because you want to watch the movie? Or is it because this is your way of showing support for the movie, showing off your tastes and preferences - because you enjoy owning your favorite films? If it's solely to watch the movie, then good news; with the ongoing shift towards digital media, you no longer have to keep buying discs - you can enjoy the movie in many more convenient ways, and this conversation is not for you.

But, as I suspect many here would understand - some of us enjoy the sense of ownership we have when buying our favorite films on blu-ray or DVD, and don't see that going away any time soon.

As we move into the digital age, collectors like ourselves will still enjoy collecting and "owning" these films. But, while I'm sure there will always be some sort of spot for physical media, or at least for a good number of years, it is unquestionable that eventually, physical media will become obsolete. So the question then becomes, where to collectors go from here?

Of course, many will protest, saying 'I always want to have a disc! I will never give up physical media!' And I get that. I, too, enjoy seeing my collection of my favorite films up on the shelf, ready to watch whenever I want. But keep in mind - film collectors have been around far longer than DVDs or VHS have allowed us the option of actually owning a copy of the film itself. Those collectors may have collected memorabilia, film posters, props, artwork, or other merchandise that they enjoyed displaying or owning in the same way we now enjoy owning the actual film.

So, as digital media continues to evolve, and discs themselves become more and more unnecessary to actually watch a film, where do collectors go from here? Well, I think our collector's sense of "ownership" will slowly transfer from the idea of owning a copy of the actual film itself back to the way of thinking before home media took over; that is, collectors will invest more in movie memorabilia rather than the actual movie itself.

Now, bear with me here - I know many of you are probably raging about how you don't care about memorabilia, and how you will always want to have a disc, and owning anything but a disc doesn't give you the sense of ownership you enjoy. But breathe a second, and think about this: let's say in five years, or ten years, or what have you, every last bit of content that you have on all your DVDs and blu-rays is available right on your TV, without having to put a disc in. The film in all it's high definition glory, and all the bonus features that you watch once in a blue moon (but enjoy knowing they're there). They're all there already, and all you have to do is hit play. So, there is literally no reason for the disc.

And if there's literally no reason for the disc, then what are we left with? The case, the artwork, the inserts. And that's about it. Do you keep it there on the shelf? If you do, then it's solely because you like to have some sort of display and physical product in your hands. Like me.

So if we're only collecting to have a physical product that we can display, I think that opens up our world of collecting movies to so many more interesting things. Things with a lot more to offer than a useless disc, a case and a couple inserts. If it's the cover art we like, then maybe movie posters are an option. If it's the spines with all the logos shining up at you, or the inserts with a little paragraph about the making of the movie, then maybe a shelf full of "Art of" books could be satisfactory.

As for me, I've recently found myself more excited to purchase the art book of a film than I have been to purchase the film itself, because it serves the same purpose on my bookshelf, and gives me something much more substantial than a DVD case that sits on my shelf forever and ever while I hop on Netflix and watch the movie.

The problem is, there is still a gap between buying something like an art book and buying a copy of the movie. Even if I buy the art book and then go on iTunes and buy the movie (which includes all the bonus features on the physical version), I still find myself wanting to go out and get the blu-ray. WHY? It doesn't make any sense. There is no need for it.

And so here's what I'm thinking: collectors don't want to give up "owning films" any more than studios want to give up selling them to us. So I think there needs to be a shift in the way we think about "buying a movie", and I think this is the way I'd like to see studios handle this shift (keep in mind this is for collectors, as an average consumer that only cares about watching the film itself will just do so online):

The packaging would be a book. It would be extremely similar to the art-of books published today. Except, the books wouldn't be called "The Art of…", they would simply be titled with the movie title, the way DVDs are. The books would sit on your shelf and serve the same purpose that DVD cases do now - to display their glorious spines and showcase your favorite movies. Inside is a code, used to unlock the film in the digital realm in its best possible presentation (HD, newly restored, etc), along with all the bonus features that have been included for this release. A section of the book would act as DVD inserts do now - with a chapter list and bonus feature explanations. Also included inside are lithographs - a print of the poster, some key scenes from the movie, concept art, etc. The majority of the book will be an art and making of, just like a standard art book, to peruse while watching the film you've unlocked, including notes and essays from the filmmakers and artists. Another section of the book will act as a storybook version of the film.

With a release like this, we get the movie itself - available to watch anywhere, anytime - substantial bonus features that would normally be included on the disc, some great collectible materials to display, an awesome making of book to sit on your shelf in place of your dvd cases, and above all - a sense of "owning" this film. Imagine a release that was the result of the combined efforts of Disney Home Entertainment, the Animation Research Library, and Chronicle Books (the current publisher of Disney's art-of books).

Would you find yourself collecting this sort of release? What aspects of owning a film are you drawn to most? Could you ever see yourself collecting something else in place of DVDs? Where do collectors go from here?

[sunhuntin]

i collect several things, from disney and other dvds to thomas the tank engine and scale model trains. so my collecting side is covered pretty well. the issue i have with sole digital media and having to download instead is that i just dont trust it, unless its going to work like itunes and be stored on your computer instead of a "cloud" or whatever. it would be too easy for a legit website to take your money and decide a year down the track to fold, taking your money and your movie.

however, i think internationally at least, dvds and physical copies will available for many years as not every home has a computer or internet access and i think that will be reality for a while yet. kind of like how many homes dont have dishwashers or spa pools.

[SWillie!]

Well, for the sake of this conversation, lets just fast forward to the day when physical media really is obsolete. I don't want this to be about physical vs digital - we have that going on in enough threads already. I want this to be about collecting and what collecting will look like in the future.

[Sotiris]

I don't think collecting will change that much in the age of digital-only releases. Those who are interested in collecting memorabilia and other paraphernalia around a film already do so and those who are not will probably remain apathetic towards such merchandise.

People will simply keep collecting films in a digital format, with digital covers, booklets etc much like most people already collect music albums. I gather they'll keep releasing a limited number of expensive physical releases targeted to collectors but I doubt they'll be as good as the idea you're proposing.

[dvdjunkie]

Note to SWillie!:

If you are a true collector, you jump on all the first editions of things you want to collect, whether it is books, movies, records, or anything that you, yourself deem collectible.

Look around your area for the latest collector's shows that travel the country and see what they have to offer. That might give you ideas as to whether you want to jump in with both feet or just tread water.

Some types of collecting are strictly in the eyes of the beholder, but a true collector will not let things like a possible digital download of a particular piece deprive him of collecting it.

I know when I started collecting, for profit, it was in vinyl records, well over 50 years ago. When the recording industry was "testing" the waters with their 'new' 45 RPM records, and people like me were still buying 78's. Then when the 45's became the thing, it was the 33 1/3 LP albums that started popping up in the stores.

At one time I had the original 78's and first 45's of every Elvis Presley record that was available in both formats. I owned all the Sun Records 78's, and the matching Sun Records 45's. As his career grew and he was signed to RCA Victor, I did the same thing, collected the first pressings of all the 78's and 45's. This was my start into real earnest collecting of what I thought was going to be valuable one day. Unfortunately, so did a million plus other people, and when I thought I would be able to retire on my fortunes in the first edition pressings of these historical records, I found that they were just 'common' among most collectors'

Walt Disney followed each and every movie release with a recorded version of that particular film on vinyl. "Johnny Appleseed", with Dennis Day providing the voice and songs was releaed on 33 1/2 vinyl form with the abridged version of "Pecos Bill" on the flip side, once again with the original artist Roy Rogers and the Sons of the Pioneers providing the voices and music. I collected every Disney title that was available, thinking that this also might make me rich in the years to come. Sadly, the story was the same. A lot of others were doing the same.

Collecting is now an art, and you need all the information you can get, and most of that information comes from attending Collector's shows as often as you can. There are Collector's Guide Books out for you to read and decide what you truly want to collect, whether it is strictly Disney, or all animated forms of entertainment, or "The Art of ........" books that are quite common at the book store.

Check your local newspaper, or if you live in 'burb, find a Sunday copy of a major newspaper and look in the classified section for "Collections For Sale", and that might give you an idea of where the next collector's Swap Meet may be. I have a traveling Swap Meet and travel to 11 different states with my group of people, and then there are the regulars who are waiting at the door to rent their tables and put up their displays. These shows are usually Friday-Sunday and some of the places I go include Oklahoma City, Dallas, Omaha, Wichita, Kansas City, Springfield, Aurora, and many others. I have found my niche in providing the shows for other people to make money, as well as myself, and have found that collecting is not limited to movies, records, or even books.

Hope this helps you in your decision to collect, or not collect. There is money to be made out there, but it also takes money to make money, and this is something that I have found out about as I travel about with my Collector's Swap Meet shows.

[Elladorine]

I would love to get back into collecting the art books. I have several from the 80's and 90's still (Art of Lion King, Hercules, Tarzan Chronicles, Illusion of Life, The Art of Walt Disney, The Disney Villain, etc.) and want to replace the ones I lost during several moves (Mulan, The Disney Character Encyclopedia, The Art of Animation from Mickey Mouse to Beauty and the Beast, etc.). To be honest, I sort of gave up on collecting these things in favor of DVD's, but would love to go back and get the editions of later films.

As already discussed, physical media is becoming more and more disposable as the convenience and availability of digital films and shows becomes more attractive to consumers. I guess even I am hitting that mindset, but for other reasons I've already become less of an avid collector over time and won't automatically buy anything just because Disney is plastered all over it. I think I'm good as long as the movies are available to view anytime I like, and I'll continue to show monetary support for releases I feel are worth purchasing (which is why I've yet to buy the Cinderella, Pocahontas, and The Lion King Blu-rays, although I might eventually pick up used copies).

[SWillie!]

I'm not sure you're reading my post right dvdjunkie - I'm not trying to make a decision whether or not to collect. I already collect DAC blu-rays. I'm just thinking out loud about what the future of movie collecting might look like.

And I don't think there's any such thing as a "true collector". Collecting should be done for fun, not for profit - because then it's no longer collecting, it's a business. If it doesn't matter to someone that they don't have the first edition or most valuable copy, that doesn't make them any less of a fan. To think so is, in my opinion, very juvenile.

Enigma- I've been trying to get my hands on an affordable copy of the Tarzan Chronicles for a little while now, I'm jealous. I too love the art books, and I think they are my favorite part of collecting Disney films.

[Elladorine]

Enigma- I've been trying to get my hands on an affordable copy of the Tarzan Chronicles for a little while now, I'm jealous. I too love the art books, and I think they are my favorite part of collecting Disney films.

You know what the crazy thing is? I bought my copy for $7 at a discount department store back in 2000! Any clue why this particular one is worth so much, is it extra rare or something? My jaw dropped when I looked it up online a few years back, and the going price is still out there. Makes me wish I'd have picked up the whole stack.

[moviefan2k4]

I'll be sticking with physical media until it dies. I don't like the idea of some faceless organization taking away films you've legally paid for, by twisting copyright and ownership laws.

[SWillie!]

Enigma- I really have no idea why. Tarzan and Mulan seem to go for crazy amounts. I wish you had bought the whole stack too, I'd be happy to take one off your hands

Moviefan- so you say you'll stick with physical until it dies. So my question is, what do you see yourself collecting after that? Like I said, I don't want this thread to derail into yet another physical vs digital debate. We all understand that we as collectors prefer physical media, so that's not what this is about. This is about collecting something physical in a digital world, and how might we see ourselves doing that?

[Elladorine]

Aw . . . if I did have any extras I'd have no problem in making sure they went to a good home.

Now I wish I knew what happened to my copy of Mulan.

[moviefan2k4]

Moviefan- so you say you'll stick with physical until it dies. So my question is, what do you see yourself collecting after that? Like I said, I don't want this thread to derail into yet another physical vs digital debate. We all understand that we as collectors prefer physical media, so that's not what this is about. This is about collecting something physical in a digital world, and how might we see ourselves doing that?

If the day ever comes where physical media is abolished, the only way I'd go digital is if I had a written, notarized document from every studio, for every movie I purchased, preventing them from erasing it.

[Disney Duster]

But there is a reason to own the disc. So that the company and no one can take off the TV what you put on it.

[Elladorine]

SWillie! is not debating on whether or not there are reasons to want to own discs; he's just wondering what's next for those that like to collect physical aspects of home media since digital streaming and downloads are becoming the norm, whether we like it or not.

Adapt or be left behind. In the meantime, vote with your wallet.

[SWillie!]

Okay, again guys - I'm not asking if you'll go digital. This is not about physical vs digital. We've had that discussion several times, and it always derails the thread (I'm guilty of this too). So lets get away from the fear that some of you have that studios will for some reason take your movies away, and instead focus on the idea of collecting.

I'm asking, if there comes a time when discs are no longer being sold - do you see yourself collecting movies in a different way, like memorabilia, books, etc? How will the physical movie collector in you live on after things go digital? What aspects of owning a movie attracts you most?

Edit: thanks Enigma, I'm glad you get it

[Elladorine]

No problem, Swillie!

I simply love being able to watch the movies whenever I'd like. I love being able to own the experience, the memories, and having the chance to create new memories with future viewings, especially when shared with friends and family. That's what it's all about for me. The physical aspect becomes less and less important to me over time; even though I admittedly enjoy looking over the collection sitting on my shelves, I get the same sense of satisfaction these days by scrolling through my MP3's.

But if I really need to have something physical to collect to represent the specific films I want to own, I've already mentioned the art books of course. Some type of collector's book with a hard copy of the film (disc? chip? account code?) is probably a pipe dream, but if done right would satisfy a lot of fans, myself included. Or maybe figures, pins . . . plushies? I don't know. I'm dreaming at this point. There's a lot of animation-related items that I've collected in the past that are tied to the films, but not as directly as what this thread is all about.

And while I'm dreaming, you know what would be cool? A figurine formed over computer chips (similar to a USB stick or memory card) that contains all the information of a film in HD. Imagine pulling a figurine of Belle off your display shelf and placing it on a specially made stand designed to read its information, enabling you to play Beauty and the Beast on your TV or any device of your choice. When finished with the film, put Belle back on your shelf and grab Basil so you can watch The Great Mouse Detective. How feasible would that be? I don't know, but it would be all kinds of awesome.

The future of film collecting is going to be dictated by not only what technology is available, but what the public responds to . . .

[SWillie!]

The figurine idea sounds awesome! Reminds me of course of Disney Infinity- but since I'm much more drawn to films than I am to games, I'd be all over something like that. I could see that going over really well with kids, too. Gahh see this is the kinda stuff I'm thinking. Innovative ways to include movies in a physical product.

I'm also glad to hear the physical aspect is becoming less and less important to you- because that's what happening to me as well. And it's just strange, because... Well, I WANT to care. Collecting these movies is obviously a hobby of mine, so if hate to see it disappear.

[Elladorine]

Oh wow! Of course I'm aware of Disney Infinity but wasn't familiar enough with it to realize it used actual figures to unlock aspects until now (I'm obviously not much of a gamer these days). But yeah, kids would definitely be into it (and would probably want to play with the figures, I know I would ). I could see them creating several character figures made for the same film, some being special-edition, limited time only . . . Look at me! I got my hands on the Chip edition of Beauty and the Beast, they only made 500 of those! That would bring the collect-them-all insanity to a whole new level. Could you imagine the marketing Disney could do? They could create specially-themed display cases to group different films or characters together, with set-like backgrounds. They could create a special display case specifically designed to reserve a spot for the first 50 DAC's (so many spots to fill!). They could even have the figurines be the cases for the actual chips/sticks and sell just the digital media aspect in "regular" cases (like for DVD's or Blu-ray) to appeal to the non-collector that just wants the movie sitting on the shelf next to those dusty old Blu-rays (because to be honest, I don't think physical media is completely going away anytime soon).

Or instead of having the actual movie on the disc, the figure unlocks the film in your Disney digital account, similar to how the DMR currently works with online copies and similar to the aforementioned game. They could make the figures relatively small and give them clips (as long as they were durable enough) so kids could carry them around like Pocket Rockers on a plastic-charm necklace (uh-oh, that last reference really dates me).

I'm in the same boat as you. I want to care about the physical media, and it's kinda strange that I don't regret watching it becoming disposable. Back in the early days of DVD I had the insane and ultimately futile concept of wanting to own the history of animation on disc. As a result, I have an enormous number of titles I've only watched once or are still (gasp!) shrink-wrapped. The mindset has since changed, I think in part thanks to the likes of youtube, for better or for worse. You can now get a taste of that obscure little something that haunted your curiosity ever since reading about it in some old library book rather than risking $30 on it by mail-order. Not that I don't buy discs anymore, I definitely do; I'm just a lot pickier about what I'm willing to spend my money on and what I'm willing to provide shelf space for . . . both are limited, after all.

If I had the space, I would have kept every VHS I ever owned but right now I'm only down to less than a dozen (and even those aren't watchable as I no longer own a VCR). So maybe it's just as well I had to condense all my belongings down? Practically everything I had on those tapes can be found on youtube now, and anything especially important to me is found or saved in another form (discs, downloads), and in a crazy way I think it's helped me let go of my fear of things disappearing, of losing the things I grew up with and carried with me (not just physically, but emotionally). They'll always be here, they'll always be available in some form somewhere. And maybe that's a strange tangent to go on? But it is what it is and I'm totally cool with the direction things are going.

[Disney Duster]

Ok then, in the future when physical media wasn't popular anymore, but as a collector I still wanted something physical, then yes, I would like something like a storybook of the film, with making of info and images as well, but inside that book would be something physical I could really feel I own the movie on, and I think a flat disc, be it round or square to match the book, whatever, is what it should hold.

[moviefan2k4]

For me, the whole point of owning a movie is being able to watch it repeatedly and simply, without a bunch of third or fourth aspects getting in the way. Physical media is the very foundation of home video, so if it ended, I'd be stuck. I like things associated with movies (books, replicas, etc.), but the film itself is tops...and I don't want anyone else controlling what, when, or how I'm able to access them after payment.