Snow White vs. Pinocchio

[Big Disney Fan]

The first two Disney animated features ever made, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Pinocchio, both classics and both superbly made. Which film do you think is the better of the two? I personally like Pinocchio.

[tlc38tlc38]

Pinocchio hands down. Don't get me wrong, I love SW for what it is but her voice just irks me. I've always been a fan of Pinocchio because he wants what we all want but few accomplish....just to be "real".

[NeverLand]

Pinocchio

[Semaj]

Pinocchio, easily. It has always been my top favorite Disney film, for the reason being that it has that rare combination of art, story, and music that works on every single level.

Nothing wrong with Snow White. Another top favorite with great art for its time, fun story, and fun songs. Just that Pinocchio did all that much better.

[thelittleursula]

Snow White.

It was simple, but it was still pretty magical and affective.

[Magic.Mirror]

Snow White.

It was simple, but it was still pretty magical and affective.

+1
and also because of it Pinocchio reached that level of perfection Visually
i love Pinocchio Visually

but Snow White was pure Magic

[Disney_freak]

This is a really hard decision, because I started off not even being able to sit through Snow White I thought it moved too slow. Pinocchio I've always had an appreciation. Slowly I think I've gained more Appreciation for Snow White though. It has a much better score, and I think the story works better. Pinocchio does however have better animation.

[ProfessorRatigan]

Snow White. Easily. Sure, Pinocchio has better animation and is technically the more proficient film. But that's just it... Pinocchio is focused a little TOO much on razzle-dazzle and not enough on fixing the MANY flaws in the story. The numerous Deus Ex Machinas in the film drive the writer in me INSANE. It's such a lazy way to get your characters from one point to another. Without the Blue Fairy's magic, Pinoke is stuck in Stromboli's cage. Without the Blue Fairy's dove from heaven, Pinoke and Jiminy have no idea Geppeto has been swallowed by a whale... Plus, the story itself is just...sort of...all over the place. I don't think it flows well at all, unlike Snow White, which, I think, is perfectly paced and timed. The Apple Scene in Snow White is a testament to perfect editing. That scene is so taut, so chilling and so well executed. Nothing in Pinocchio compares to it, in my opinion. Music is a hard choice, both have excellent soundtracks. So, I'll say it's a tie. Pinocchio, easily, has better animation and effects, but Snow White wins in characters and story. I like ALL the characters in Snow White, most especially the Queen and Grumpy. Pinocchio's cast isn't bad, but it does have one big thing going against it: Jiminy. Fucking. Cricket. Holy hell, do I hate this character. He is easily, to me, one of the most loathsome, vile, abhorrent characters ever, and easily tops my list of least favorite Disney characters. (Just one notch above Tinkerbell...)

I originally posted this on my Tumblr, but since the subject of Jiminy has come up, it behooves me to explain myself, so, I'm posting it here, too. It's a bit long, haha.

"Jiminy Cricket is also pretty evil. What a selfish little asshole. Easily the most unlikeable character in Disney. Let’s take a look at his rap sheet, shall we? First, he’s crumb-bumming it in the streets of a village and just INVITES himself in Geppeto’s house for some shut-eye. Doesn’t offer to pay. Nothing. When Geppeto lays down to sleep, Jiminy decides to cash it in, too. But the noises in the house keep him awake, including Geppeto’s, and I can’t stress this fact enough, the OWNER OF THE HOUSE’S, snoring. What does our ‘loveable’ cricket pal do? HE SCREAMS AT THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE TO ‘BE QUIET.’ Because, ‘Enough’s enough.’ Motherfucker, that ain’t cho house! Motherfucker, you ain’t payin rent!

"So, then the Blue Fairy comes down from, I dunno, heaven or whatever and grants Geppeto’s wish for a son. She gives the wooden puppet Pinocchio life and as she’s talking to him, Jiminy BARGES right into the conversation and berates Pinoke, essentially a NEWBORN CHILD, because he doesn’t know what a conscience is. Hell, half of Wall Street and most of our government doesn’t know what a conscience is, but a freshly anthropomorphized cut of wood with the brain of a child is supposed to? So, the Blue Fairy asks Jiminy if HE’LL be Pinoke’s conscience. And why does Jiminy Cricket agree? Is it because he has the best interests of Pinocchio at heart? Is it because he truly wants to help? Is it because he’s a good, moral person? No. None of that pussy shit. Jiminy Cricket ONLY agrees to help because he’s got a cricket-boner for the Blue Fairy.

"So the Blue bitch appoints Jiminy Pinocchio’s conscience and gives him new duds with the power of her magic and shit, and how does Jiminy Cricket respond? Does he THANK her for this gesture that SHE WASN’T REQUIRED TO DO? No. He gripes she didn’t give him a gold badge. What. A. Fucking. Dick. If you knew someone in real life who, right after you gave them an expensive new outfit complained that you didn’t give them a watch to go with it, you’d punch that person right in the taint. But for some reason the Blue Fairy laughs and then gets the fuck out of there.

"So, Jiminy is now Pinoke’s conscience. Geppeto wakes up and discovers Pinocchio is now alive, blah blah, and decides in the morning that Pinocchio will have to start school and he sends Pinocchio off on his own. Where is Jiminy Cricket, you might ask. Well, he SLEPT IN. His FIRST DAY ON THE FUCKING JOB and he SLEPT IN. Leaving this impressionable kid to the mercy of the two greatest con-men in Disney history: Honest John the Fox and Gideon the Cat. These two low-down motherfuckers convince Pinocchio that school is for squares, he needs to go be an actor! They lead him away to Stromboli the puppet-master’s theater to sell Pinocchio. When Jiminy Cricket catches up and finds out what’s going on, what does he do? Does he go with Pinoke to make sure he’ll be able to handle it? No. He UP AND FUCKING ABANDONS THE KID. “What’s an actor want with a conscience anyhow?”, he asks. Okay. This motherfucking cricket sucks ass. I don’t think I need to go on, really. But I will, because there is more. So much more…

"Later in the film, Pinocchio is once again conned by the Fox and Cat tag-team to going to ‘Pleasure Isle,’ ostensibly a paradise for bratty little boys in need of a good ass-beatin, where they can tear shit up, fight, drink, smoke, gamble and be the best little shits they can be. On the surface, it’s cool and good fun, but unbeknownst to all the boys lured there, the Coachman who owns the isle somehow has a magic spell in place that causes the kids to turn into Donkeys for misbehavin. He then sells the donkeys to the salt mines for a life of hard labor. Dude’s evil as hell. Seriously, that shit puts Maleficent to shame. Keep in mind, he sold TONS of kids. We see at least a dozen donkeys being shipped out in crates. But I digress…

"Anyway, Pinoke is lured to Pleasure Isle. Where was Jiminy during all this? GOOD FUCKING QUESTION. I tell you, as a conscience, Jiminy’s about as reliable as John Wayne Gacy’s must have been. Pinocchio falls into the trap of Pleasure Isle, befriending a soulless ginger named Lampwick. Jiminy comes in to get Pinoke and take him home, but Pinoke says he’s having too much fun. Jiminy throws in the towel, just like that, and ABANDONS PINOCCHIO ONCE AGAIN. “Go ahead! Make a jackass of yourself!” He says. He leaves but does come back this time out of guilt when he discovers what the Coachman is really up to. I’ll give him that.

"So, he and Pinoke escape Pleasure Isle and swim back to shore to find that Geppeto, while trying to row to Pleasure Isle, was swallowed by a whale. You know the rest. No complaints about Jiminy’s character here. He goes with Pinocchio underwater to find the whale (But how the hell does a cricket survive underwater for the 20 minutes it takes them to find that damned beast? Pinocchio’s just a hunk of wood. He doesn’t even need air. But Jiminy? This part annoyed me even as a kid.), yadda yadda, Pinocchio gets killed by the whale protecting his father, the Blue Fairy resurrects him as a real boy for his sacrifice, happy ending.

"At the very end, Jiminy is awarded a gold badge, just like he wanted, by the Blue Fairy. I’m sorry. FOR WHAT? Constantly leaving the kid hanging? Why does this little bastard deserve an award? He was utter shit at his job! If I showed up at a retail place and did as shoddy a job as Jiminy Cricket did protecting Pinocchio and leading him down the straight and narrow path, I’d be fired within a week. Would I get a 24 karat gold star for my piss-poor performance? Hell nah I wouldn’t."

...So, yeah. I hate Jiminy. And I'd be lying if I said his presence in the film didn't hinder my enjoyment of it enormously. (Why does this little PUNK get to be considered one of Disney's most tried and true friends while Timothy Mouse languishes in obscurity!?)

Snow White I've always loved. Easily one of my favorites. The Dwarfs are all so easily defined and well done, the Queen is an absolute terror (Seriously, how many children have been scared out of their wits by this woman over the decades?), and the emotions in the film are, to me anyway, more potent than the ones in Pinocchio. When I watch Pinocchio, I feel...uneasy. It's not an enjoyable film to sit through. I like dark films, so, I don't mean this as a criticism necessarily, but I truly find Pinocchio to be the darkest Disney animated feature. That being said, as a character, Pinocchio himself is much stronger than Snow White, who is a bit of a bore. And I LOVE Honest John and Gideon.

[Dr Frankenollie]

The first two Disney animated features ever made, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Pinocchio, both classics and both superbly made. Which film do you think is the better of the two? I personally like Pinocchio.

1). You don't differentiate whether you want to hear the objective or subjective view on the film. The film I 'personally like' more is not (necessarily) the film I view as 'the better of the two'.

2). Crikey, I feel old. You've done this versus thread before, a year or two ago. I don't think they're the best films for comparison - as Disney's Divinity did, it's better to match Pinocchio with Sleeping Beauty. Snow White, meanwhile, is more comparable to Cinderella.

Anyway, my favourite is Snow White (today ) primarily for the Dwarfs and the Queen - especially the Queen. God, she is good. The first design is superlative, and the equally superlative animation complements it perfectly: she's imperious, regal and somewhat snobbish, looking down at others, and utterly full of herself. Yet her vanity is never something comical or satirical or lighthearted. Her dead eyes reveal her heartlessness - she is eternally cold and aloof. Her love for her beauty has eroded it; her viciousness has made her a monster. The more subdued, controlled emotions of the Queen arguably make her more terrifying than the Hag overall, yet the first shot of the grotesque, hideous and horrific Hag is, for me at least, the most frightful moment in any film. Ever. It should go without saying, but Lucille LaVerne is a fine voice actress, and supplies a truly masterful portrayal. Pinocchio's villains are very good too, but the Queen is transcendent amongst the other scary, enigmatic antagonists (Frollo and Lady Tremaine have a realism that distances them from the kind of antagonist that the Queen is). Characters like Maleficent and Ursula appear to be awfully dull and pedestrian in comparison.

Yes, the animation is of course Pinocchio's strong point. And, if we are objective, so are the songs and score (Snow White has "Heigh Ho" and "Someday My Prince Will Come" as above average songs; Pinocchio has "When You Wish Upon a Star", "An Actor's Life For Me", "I've Got No Strings"...)

The editing and direction of Snow White are far superior, creating unequivocally the most intense sequences of all Disney films: the transformation of the Queen, Snow White's flight through the forest, and that superbly cut climax. Partially due to the strength of the frightful sequences, the happier and more heart-warming moments in Snow White are much more powerful. I'm specifically thinking of the final scene, which has an awful lot adorning it, but none of it feels overdone: the choral reprise of the best song, the delighted cheers of the Dwarfs, the goodbyes, the bright lights, the final, dreamy shot. Snow White's final moments make up the most powerful but emotionally satisfying ending in any Disney film. To be frank, I'm struggling to recall the final moments of Pinocchio.

[Semaj]

LOL, WOW, ProfessorRatigan!

[thelittleursula]

@ProfessorRatigan- Jiminy annoyed me for some reason, but I just couldn't but my nose on it. Something about him bugged me ( no pun ) and yeah, you're pretty right. He's lousy at his job and always bails on Pinocchio when he needs help the most. The part that I disliked about Jiminy the most was that he didn't want to save Pinocchio because he didn't want to look like a looser who tells. What the hell ? Pinocchio's life is in danger, and you don't want to look like a looser who tells ?!

Jiminy sucks at his career.

[Big Disney Fan]

2). Crikey, I feel old. You've done this versus thread before, a year or two ago. I don't think they're the best films for comparison - as Disney's Divinity did, it's better to match Pinocchio with Sleeping Beauty. Snow White, meanwhile, is more comparable to Cinderella.

But "Snow White", "Cinderella" and "Sleeping Beauty" are all so-called princess films. I would hardly find "Pinocchio" comparable to "Sleeping Beauty" and vice-versa.

[Disney Duster]

I thought everyone would say Pinocchio, but I must agree with those who say Snow White is the better film! I just watched the two films recently and even though I find Pinocchio to have better pacing and interesting, story-progressing scenes all the time, I think Snow White wins because of how much I felt during that film. Pinocchio and Snow White are almost equal in the character department. Both are cute, but Pinocchio to me is less annoying and more adorable. Yet Snow White's sweetness I miss badly when she dies, while the same didn't happen for me when Pinocchio died. Since I'm somewhat dead inside, I wonder if I missed the emotions I was supposed to feel for Pinoke. But I think Snow White built it's climaxes and emotional moments greater and more powerfully, so despite Snow White's slowness and padding, it wins. Though yes yes, Pinocchio has more fantastic animation. I was truly stunned by it. But Snow White's every single song I think trumps Pinocchio's almost equally good songs.

ProfessorRatigan, the Blue Fairy came from the star in the sky, not exactly heaven, and I don't think the film said Gepetto was rowing to Pleasure Island. I think he was just looking for Pinocchio at sea. And as for Jiminy Cricket, he got his badge for trying. And he didn't abandon Pinocchio like you and thelittleursula. He thought Pinocchio didn't need him anymore. And he did not say he didn't want to look like a loser who tells, he said he didn't want to snitch, and then he did go after Pinocchio after all!