Silly Symphonies Question

[Prince Phillip]

When Leonard Maltin is talking about the Three Little Pigs, he says in the original cartoon the wolf disguises himself as a Jewish Peddler, giving rise to the FALSE rumor that Walt was an anti-Semite. However, in the version I saw he disguises himself as a college student trying to peddle something. I was under the impression that these were the ‘UN-ALTERED” cartoons. If this is the case why isn’t the Jewish version shown. If this version was not meant to be seen, then why talk about it before hand while advertising this as a DVD of unedited cartoons?

Also does any one know if the remaining symphonies will be released in a future treasures set?

[jabroni76]

unfortunately, I cna't answer your first question, but I'm assuming that they will release the rest of the symphonies. It would make sense. Odd's are next year, since this year Mickey Color 2 is coming out... Just logic though...

[2099net]

Because unlike all of the other alterations made to Disney's shorts, the Three Little Pigs short was altered on Walt's instructions while Walt was alive. So it's sort of like Walt's version still - while all the others were edited/altered much later after Walt's death.

While this may not be the answer you are looking for, this is the logic behind the Set. And most of the original segment can be seen in the introduction.

[Prince Phillip]

Thanks for clearing that up. Does anyone think we will ever get to see the original one, maybe on a future symphonies set? # Pigs is not my fave, but it is the idea of the thing.

[The Lizard King]

Because unlike all of the other alterations made to Disney's shorts, the Three Little Pigs short was altered on Walt's instructions while Walt was alive. So it's sort of like Walt's version still - while all the others were edited/altered much later after Walt's death.

Walt also censored Fantasia's Pastoral Symphony in the 1960s (obviously before he died).

TLK

[Billy Moon]

The uncensored version was included on a European VHS titled "Academy Award Shorts". I think it has also been released on Laserdisc in Japan.

[Anders M Olsson]

The recently released Scandinavian version of the Silly Symphonies DVD set contains the original uncensored version of "The Three Little Pigs", including the Jewish peddler segment (in place, not only in Leonard Maltin's introduction).

[quiden]

I thought this would be a good place to post my question about the silly symphonies, but I think it may have been answered. I was under the impression when I got the Silly Symphonies Treasure, that it was complete, but I noticed that two cartoons, Santa's Workshop and 'Twas the Night Before Christmas weren't there. We have them on an old disney video with about 5 other shorts on them, but I was looking forward to have better quality versions of them.

One of the reasons I thought the second one might have been ommited is that at one point a child looks up the chimney and some soot falls on his face painting him in black face with the white around the lips -- a very american racial stereotype. After seeing some of the things that disney decided to include in the Goofy collection, it made me wonder why the before mentioned cartoon was left out. So maybe it will just be included on a different collection? if so, what else was left out that it would be with?

[STASHONE]

There were many Silly Symphonies which were not included in the first set, it would have been impossible to feature all the Silly Symphonies on 2 discs with extra features as their are something like 75 shorts in the series. There have been rumors of a second installment due out next year which would complete the Silly Symphonies library.

[Chernabog]

No - Silly Symphonies set 2 is not rumored for release next year.
MMC
True Life Adventures
Complete Pluto
MM in BW 2

are the ones for next release (as of latest from Trojan Mouse!)


And Yes there is exactly 75 cartoons in the series of The Silly Symphonies

[jebsdad]

The original animation of Three Little Pigs was released (apparently in error) in the U.S. on the VHS video "Disney Favorite Stories The Three Little Pigs". This version still does not contain the original "Jewish sounding" soundtrack. Although the version of Three Little Pigs shown as part of Milestones In Animation was the censored version, that version did contain the original soundtrack.

I have always disagreed with Disney's "official" list of the 75 Silly Symphonies. Although Mother Pluto is listed as a Silly Symphony, I consider it a Pluto cartoon. I have also always considered Ferdinand the Bull as a Silly Symphony, although it is designated by Disney as a "Special".

I don't know when Disney will get around to it, if ever, but a Walt Disney Treasures DVD set of the 39 "Specials" (1938-1995) is one of my top wants after the On The Front Lines set and the 2nd Silly Symphony set.

Note: My list of 39 Specials is unofficial - especially on the later shorts shown at the theaters.

[Joe Carioca]

The recently released Scandinavian version of the Silly Symphonies DVD set contains the original uncensored version of "The Three Little Pigs", including the Jewish peddler segment (in place, not only in Leonard Maltin's introduction).

This is great news! Can't wait to get the DVD when it is released around here.
Hey, is the original audio intact too?

[canon]

The original animation of Three Little Pigs was released (apparently in error) in the U.S. on the VHS video "Disney Favorite Stories The Three Little Pigs". This version still does not contain the original "Jewish sounding" soundtrack. Although the version of Three Little Pigs shown as part of Milestones In Animation was the censored version, that version did contain the original soundtrack.

I have this VHS and it is really interesting. Although, if I wasn't an animator and didn't know anything about this scene, I probably wouldn't have picked up on the Jewish stereotype here. To me, it would've been just some odd disguise that the Wolf puts on.

[Anders M Olsson]

Hey, is the original audio intact too?

Not sure about that. I don't know what the original audio is supposed to sound like. Perhaps someone can post an audio clip? The R1 and R2 DVD versions sound the same to me.

[Tannerman]

The debate over "censored" or whatnot really depends on your interpretation. For example, would you consider somethign that Walt himself edited to be a good thing or bad thing? It's a decision that really needs to be made by each fan of animation.

[Anders M Olsson]

The debate over "censored" or whatnot really depends on your interpretation. For example, would you consider somethign that Walt himself edited to be a good thing or bad thing? It's a decision that really needs to be made by each fan of animation.

Agreed. However it's interesting from a historical perspective to have seen (and heard) all the different versions, and to know the reasoning behind the changes.

[quiden]

It would be interesting to know when the change was made. Was it after the liberation of Germany in WWII and it was know what hatred of the Jews could do, or if it was earlier just from his own perspective of it being inappropriate.

Another related issue, but with a different movie is when George Lucas edited the Cantina bar sequence in Star Wars to make Greedo shoot first when Han Kills him. This is related because it is the original movie maker making a change to something that didn't sit well with him (Han shooting first). Most fans are upset with Lucas for making this change, mostly for the shotty way it was done but also because Han shooting first is totally in character for a rouge like he was before he found friends and a purpose. If it was done better I would feel fine with this change, but I think it would be totally inappropriate for someone other than the original movie maker to make the change.

Just imagine if someone went back and added CG special effects to the Wizard of Oz! Or made a CG version of Elliot in Pete's Dragon! Blasphemy! But Stephen Speilberg improving the look of ET for an anniversary version and adding scenes? Fine with me, but I like how he also included on the DVD the original theatrical version.

Thoughts?

[canon]

I find it interesting to see what and why changes are made for a particular short, film, documentary, etc. My only beef is when the filmmaker dumps the old version out, never to be seen again. Make the originals available and let the public debate over the differences between the two (or 3 in some cases) versions. I like that Speilberg did that for the ET DVD. I however, felt it was weak of him to make such a change. It was that original version that made over 300 million so there's something to be said of that version.

Look at Terry Gilliam's Brazil. Brilliant film. His version is better than the edited, happier ending studio version. But the 3 disc DVD set gives you both versions and allows you, the viewer, to make the decision of what works and doesn't work for each version of the film. Very nice. And I hope that Lucas gives us the original trilogy, unedited, along with the Special Editions. Again, I reiterate, it was the originals where Lucas made his bucks off of. Not the Special Editions. Give the people the options to own whatever versions we want, or rather, put both versions on the set, a la Beauty and the Beast.

I'm wondering if they had meant to put the original 3 Little Pigs version in the DVD set, but had forgotten to mention it to the DVD people. A mistake, perhaps?

[STASHONE]

No - Silly Symphonies set 2 is not rumored for release next year.
MMC
True Life Adventures
Complete Pluto
MM in BW 2

are the ones for next release (as of latest from Trojan Mouse!)


And Yes there is exactly 75 cartoons in the series of The Silly Symphonies

What's MMC?

[Joe Carioca]

Mickey Mouse Club

♪M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E♪