How do the two films stack up against each other in your eyes? Which protagonist/soundtrack/overall film do you prefer?
Bambi v. Dumbo
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Disney's Divinity
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Bambi v. Dumbo
Two of Walt Disney’s earliest films, both made in the “Golden Age” of Disney films. Both Dumbo and Bambi feature animal protagonists who lose their mothers (although more permanently in Bambi’s case), but take place in much different environments (the circus v. the forest).
How do the two films stack up against each other in your eyes? Which protagonist/soundtrack/overall film do you prefer?
How do the two films stack up against each other in your eyes? Which protagonist/soundtrack/overall film do you prefer?
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
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This is very easy for me. Bambi wins in almost all categories, hands down.
The story is more engaging and the characters are more interesting in Bambi. I can definitely see the appeal in Dumbo as it's quite emotional and a good film overall, but it can't compare to Bambi.
Production wise, they're almost complete opposites. Bambi is a lavish production with some of the most realistic backgrounds and animation in Disney history, whereas Dumbo has a flat look and a more primary color palette.
As for the music, I think it's a tie. I like "Baby Mine" better than any other song in Bambi and the score in both of them is solid, though nothing spectacular.
Overall, Bambi wins as the all around better film.
The story is more engaging and the characters are more interesting in Bambi. I can definitely see the appeal in Dumbo as it's quite emotional and a good film overall, but it can't compare to Bambi.
Production wise, they're almost complete opposites. Bambi is a lavish production with some of the most realistic backgrounds and animation in Disney history, whereas Dumbo has a flat look and a more primary color palette.
As for the music, I think it's a tie. I like "Baby Mine" better than any other song in Bambi and the score in both of them is solid, though nothing spectacular.
Overall, Bambi wins as the all around better film.
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ProfessorRatigan
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These two are both in my top ten DACs, so I love them both. This is hard...
Overall, Bambi is the better film, I think. It's more well-rounded, more artistic and, ultimately, more substantive than Dumbo, which is a very sparse, economical production. Not that that's a flaw. It works very well in Dumbo. I think Dumbo (along with the Great Mouse Detective) makes a strong argument for economy in motion pictures. They are both very tight films.
Dumbo has a triumphant ending. We end on a high after all the dejection and sadness and the underdog soars. (Literally!) Bambi doesn't really have an uplifting ending or anything. It's just...life goes on. The cycle starts anew. But I think, even though the message of Dumbo is amazing and all that, that I like the ending of Bambi MORE, but find it LESS satisfying than Dumbo's, if that makes sense. Holy shit, I feel like I'm rambling.
Anyway...The backgrounds, the animation. I don't see how anyone could argue that they're better in Dumbo. Dumbo was obviously made on the cheap and sticks out like a sore thumb compared to Pinocchio, Fantasia, Bambi and even Snow White. Maybe you can say that makes Dumbo unique (I'd agree), but I cannot deny the artistry in Bambi is breathtaking.
Songs? Dumbo by a mile. I can't remember a single song in Bambi. But I find myself singing When I See a Elephant Fly all the time. I find myself humming the Stork song, the Casey Jr. song, the Roustabouts, Pink Elephants... Interestingly, I like Baby Mine the least. And it never makes me cry. (I am not a hardass. I cry at the drop of a hat. Hell, the Prince Ali song in Aladdin made me cry the other day because I was overwhelmed by the nostalgia of it. So, yeah...)
Characters? Again, Dumbo wins. Timothy Mouse is one of my all-time favorite heroic characters in Disney. Dumbo himself is so much more identifiable than Bambi. Mrs. Jumbo is a better mom than Bambi's Mother. The Crows are awesome (fuck the controversy!) and those Matron Elephants really make the blood boil. In Bambi...I like Flower.
It's weird. In nearly every department, I find Dumbo better, but overall, I think Bambi is the better and more watchable film.
Overall, Bambi is the better film, I think. It's more well-rounded, more artistic and, ultimately, more substantive than Dumbo, which is a very sparse, economical production. Not that that's a flaw. It works very well in Dumbo. I think Dumbo (along with the Great Mouse Detective) makes a strong argument for economy in motion pictures. They are both very tight films.
Dumbo has a triumphant ending. We end on a high after all the dejection and sadness and the underdog soars. (Literally!) Bambi doesn't really have an uplifting ending or anything. It's just...life goes on. The cycle starts anew. But I think, even though the message of Dumbo is amazing and all that, that I like the ending of Bambi MORE, but find it LESS satisfying than Dumbo's, if that makes sense. Holy shit, I feel like I'm rambling.
Anyway...The backgrounds, the animation. I don't see how anyone could argue that they're better in Dumbo. Dumbo was obviously made on the cheap and sticks out like a sore thumb compared to Pinocchio, Fantasia, Bambi and even Snow White. Maybe you can say that makes Dumbo unique (I'd agree), but I cannot deny the artistry in Bambi is breathtaking.
Songs? Dumbo by a mile. I can't remember a single song in Bambi. But I find myself singing When I See a Elephant Fly all the time. I find myself humming the Stork song, the Casey Jr. song, the Roustabouts, Pink Elephants... Interestingly, I like Baby Mine the least. And it never makes me cry. (I am not a hardass. I cry at the drop of a hat. Hell, the Prince Ali song in Aladdin made me cry the other day because I was overwhelmed by the nostalgia of it. So, yeah...)
Characters? Again, Dumbo wins. Timothy Mouse is one of my all-time favorite heroic characters in Disney. Dumbo himself is so much more identifiable than Bambi. Mrs. Jumbo is a better mom than Bambi's Mother. The Crows are awesome (fuck the controversy!) and those Matron Elephants really make the blood boil. In Bambi...I like Flower.
It's weird. In nearly every department, I find Dumbo better, but overall, I think Bambi is the better and more watchable film.
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Dr Frankenollie
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Easy-peasy. Dumbo. Dumbo. Dumbo. Dumbo. Dumbo.
If you want sympathetic and compelling characters, then go for Dumbo. If you want a mixture of catchy and heartbreaking sings, Dumbo is the film for you. You want surrealism? Dumbo has it. Heart? Dumbo. Comedy? Dumbo. A plot with a wonderful message that isn't vague in the slightest can resonate with everyone? Dumbo.
Now, if you prefer forest backgrounds that appear to be melting, or very vague themes about the circle of life which are presented in a very cold, clinical manner, or several incredibly dull and rather forgettable songs, then Bambi is the film for you.
Judging the films on which is more entertaining, Dumbo is the clear winner. Yet it's also the clear winner when it comes to emotion, comedy and characterisation and - although Bambi's backgrounds are doubtlessly quite nice - animation. Yes, you heard me (so to speak) right. Specifically, I mean character animation. Like Mrs Jumbo's face and body language when she doesn't receive a baby from the stork, as well as Dumbo's convincingly child-like and utterly adorable character animation (based by Bill Tytla, I believe, on his infant son).
I'm honestly baffled by people who prefer Bambi, unless they are simply blinded by nostalgia or are the kind of deluded people who think Avatar is one of the greatest films ever made just because it has good visual effects.
If you want sympathetic and compelling characters, then go for Dumbo. If you want a mixture of catchy and heartbreaking sings, Dumbo is the film for you. You want surrealism? Dumbo has it. Heart? Dumbo. Comedy? Dumbo. A plot with a wonderful message that isn't vague in the slightest can resonate with everyone? Dumbo.
Now, if you prefer forest backgrounds that appear to be melting, or very vague themes about the circle of life which are presented in a very cold, clinical manner, or several incredibly dull and rather forgettable songs, then Bambi is the film for you.
Judging the films on which is more entertaining, Dumbo is the clear winner. Yet it's also the clear winner when it comes to emotion, comedy and characterisation and - although Bambi's backgrounds are doubtlessly quite nice - animation. Yes, you heard me (so to speak) right. Specifically, I mean character animation. Like Mrs Jumbo's face and body language when she doesn't receive a baby from the stork, as well as Dumbo's convincingly child-like and utterly adorable character animation (based by Bill Tytla, I believe, on his infant son).
I'm honestly baffled by people who prefer Bambi, unless they are simply blinded by nostalgia or are the kind of deluded people who think Avatar is one of the greatest films ever made just because it has good visual effects.
How do opinions work?Dr Frankenollie wrote:
I'm honestly baffled by people who prefer Bambi, unless they are simply blinded by nostalgia or are the kind of deluded people who think Avatar is one of the greatest films ever made just because it has good visual effects.
I pretty much agree with your post regarding Dumbo being the superior film but the naked condescension is unwarranted.
And no, you aren't special in disliking Avatar. There isn't really much praise for it nowadays, the amount of detractors, on the internet, at least, far exceeds those who praise it.
Walt himself considered Bambi to be one of his best films. I suppose that he is blinded by nostalgia or one of those idiots who only care about visual effects.
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Flanger-Hanger
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Well since I never cared for Bambi that much until recently, and I've never seen Avatar that disproves that point fairly quickly.Dr Frankenollie wrote:I'm honestly baffled by people who prefer Bambi, unless they are simply blinded by nostalgia or are the kind of deluded people who think Avatar is one of the greatest films ever made just because it has good visual effects.
I guess any film or animation critic who has praised the movie is also some nostalgic sap too?
Aesthetically speaking, Bambi is one of the studio's best. The focus on color and character animation used on the film was more realistically done than any of Disney's films to that point, while still containing the styles of its many animators that made their films stand out. It also contains some breathtaking sequences, particularly the death of Bambi's mother and the fire-lead finale, which still stand out.
That said, something alienates me from Bambi on an emotional level. I greatly appreciate the film, and even like it, but I'm never overwhelmed by it. Maybe it's too polished, maybe the characters aren't defined well enough, maybe both are the reasons why I don't like it as much as I should.
With Dumbo, I find that practically everything works. The story is similar in certain ways to Bambi, but I honestly feel more of a connection with Dumbo's perils than I do Bambi's. I also find the music to be vastly superior in Dumbo, with "Baby Mine" arguably being the studio's finest song period, with its sequence making for such a heartbreaking ordeal. I'm not a crier, but if any film scene could make me break down, this is one (the ending to City Lights is another).
I think I find more of a connection to Dumbo is that while most of Disney's highest-revered artists were working on Bambi, a slew of the studio's incredibly talented but less admired workers were tackling this film, and they certainly brought their A-game out. It's a labor of love for the underdogs, in what was expected to be a lesser film, similar to The Lion King, which is among my favorites of the post-Walt films.
That's my take on the films, at least.
That said, something alienates me from Bambi on an emotional level. I greatly appreciate the film, and even like it, but I'm never overwhelmed by it. Maybe it's too polished, maybe the characters aren't defined well enough, maybe both are the reasons why I don't like it as much as I should.
With Dumbo, I find that practically everything works. The story is similar in certain ways to Bambi, but I honestly feel more of a connection with Dumbo's perils than I do Bambi's. I also find the music to be vastly superior in Dumbo, with "Baby Mine" arguably being the studio's finest song period, with its sequence making for such a heartbreaking ordeal. I'm not a crier, but if any film scene could make me break down, this is one (the ending to City Lights is another).
I think I find more of a connection to Dumbo is that while most of Disney's highest-revered artists were working on Bambi, a slew of the studio's incredibly talented but less admired workers were tackling this film, and they certainly brought their A-game out. It's a labor of love for the underdogs, in what was expected to be a lesser film, similar to The Lion King, which is among my favorites of the post-Walt films.
That's my take on the films, at least.
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Joshua Clinard
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Bambi was never one of my favorites, even though I did like it quite a bit, especially in my youth. Not as much now. It was beautifully animated, and it definitely has an emotional story-line. The music is good, but the only memorable song is April Showers. Not typical Disney! Parts of the film are almost boring. It drags along too much. There's not enough comedy or action. It was over-saturated with romance and drama.
Dumbo was much more interesting to me. Lots of action, suspense, comedy, danger, and even emotion. Lots of memorable music. I especially like the song Pink elephants, and When I see an elephant fly. My favorite scenes are the flying scenes and the circus scenes! I think I will have to revisit this one soon.
Dumbo was much more interesting to me. Lots of action, suspense, comedy, danger, and even emotion. Lots of memorable music. I especially like the song Pink elephants, and When I see an elephant fly. My favorite scenes are the flying scenes and the circus scenes! I think I will have to revisit this one soon.
Love both, but Dumbo wins.
Dumbo had long been considered one of the studio's second-tier films, along with Alice in Wonderland, since they were rarely re-released theatrically, and were among the first Disney films to premiere on TV and video. In Dumbo's case, it had to do with the fact that it was not one of Walt's "prestige" films, in fact, made with very little of his involvement, and because it was barely an hour long.
However, Dumbo hits the right notes in terms of storytelling and entertainment. Everytime I went to the circus as a kid, this was always the first thing I thought about. Plus, the "Pink Elephants on Parade" sequence was one of the film's main highlights. Dumbo is much simpler than what Disney intended for his films, but unlike the piece-it-together package features, it works fine as it is.
ALSO, this film can easily be forgiven for the racial stereotypes inserted throughout. Unlike many cartoon stereotypes at the time, the black crows and roustabouts are so underplayed that they fit well enough into the presentation without calling attention to themselves.
Bambi is a fine film, with excellent art, music, and emphasis on limited dialogue. The only thing that keeps me from calling it one of the greatest is the "cutesy" stigma that was unconsciously built around it. Though Disney knowingly nourished their reputation for cutesy animals, this film has been parodied to the point of annoyance because of that.
Despite that, a lot of people still misunderstand that despite the cuteness, Disney did not limit their films to JUST children. In this case, when Bambi's mom was killed, she was not going to cheat death as they did in many of Disney's later films. Part of the intent was showing how cartoons were every bit as capable of capturing emotion as any live-action film, including sadness. So, it kinda bugs me when people miss the point with such responses as, "Why did Disney put this in a childrens' film?"
Dumbo had long been considered one of the studio's second-tier films, along with Alice in Wonderland, since they were rarely re-released theatrically, and were among the first Disney films to premiere on TV and video. In Dumbo's case, it had to do with the fact that it was not one of Walt's "prestige" films, in fact, made with very little of his involvement, and because it was barely an hour long.
However, Dumbo hits the right notes in terms of storytelling and entertainment. Everytime I went to the circus as a kid, this was always the first thing I thought about. Plus, the "Pink Elephants on Parade" sequence was one of the film's main highlights. Dumbo is much simpler than what Disney intended for his films, but unlike the piece-it-together package features, it works fine as it is.
ALSO, this film can easily be forgiven for the racial stereotypes inserted throughout. Unlike many cartoon stereotypes at the time, the black crows and roustabouts are so underplayed that they fit well enough into the presentation without calling attention to themselves.
Bambi is a fine film, with excellent art, music, and emphasis on limited dialogue. The only thing that keeps me from calling it one of the greatest is the "cutesy" stigma that was unconsciously built around it. Though Disney knowingly nourished their reputation for cutesy animals, this film has been parodied to the point of annoyance because of that.
Despite that, a lot of people still misunderstand that despite the cuteness, Disney did not limit their films to JUST children. In this case, when Bambi's mom was killed, she was not going to cheat death as they did in many of Disney's later films. Part of the intent was showing how cartoons were every bit as capable of capturing emotion as any live-action film, including sadness. So, it kinda bugs me when people miss the point with such responses as, "Why did Disney put this in a childrens' film?"
"OH COME ON, REALLY?!?!"
The animator in me definitely prefers Bambi, by a long shot. The film is an artistic high point for the studio. Everything from the visdev to the animation itself is top notch. I love that there are so many moments where they just let the characters live - where they aren't concerned with making sure every second is driving the plot forward. The ice skating scene comes to mind - one of my favorite moments in Disney's history.
That said, I could understand how it can definitely be argued that Dumbo is the better film. It's more concise and tells a clearer story. I just don't find it as entertaining.
Frankenollie, I think your blind hatred of Bambi is a little much, don't you? Forest backgrounds that appear to melting?? That's an aesthetic choice that is seen throughout all the film's concept art as well - meant to provoke a "feeling" rather than capture a photorealistic forest. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't make it "bad". I'm sorry that you assume I'm "deluded", when the truth is we are simply drawn to different aspects of these films.
That said, I could understand how it can definitely be argued that Dumbo is the better film. It's more concise and tells a clearer story. I just don't find it as entertaining.
Frankenollie, I think your blind hatred of Bambi is a little much, don't you? Forest backgrounds that appear to melting?? That's an aesthetic choice that is seen throughout all the film's concept art as well - meant to provoke a "feeling" rather than capture a photorealistic forest. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't make it "bad". I'm sorry that you assume I'm "deluded", when the truth is we are simply drawn to different aspects of these films.
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Pokeholic_Prince
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Both are great movies.
Dumbo has the tighter script with really good music and message. The animation, while not as advanced as other Disney movies it works. Pink Elephants is one of my favorite sequences ever from a movie. The film is a great example of how with a great story a movie can be great regardless off its visual style or choice of animation.
Having said that though I still prefer Bambi. From its animation to its very subtle story about life, this movie succeeds. We basically see the troubles and triumph of life fold in front of us. The story is told with a lot of heavy imagery. While the songs aren't memorable it works in the movie to enhance each scene.
Dumbo has the tighter script with really good music and message. The animation, while not as advanced as other Disney movies it works. Pink Elephants is one of my favorite sequences ever from a movie. The film is a great example of how with a great story a movie can be great regardless off its visual style or choice of animation.
Having said that though I still prefer Bambi. From its animation to its very subtle story about life, this movie succeeds. We basically see the troubles and triumph of life fold in front of us. The story is told with a lot of heavy imagery. While the songs aren't memorable it works in the movie to enhance each scene.
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Sotiris
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None of the two are among my favorites, but I prefer Bambi to Dumbo overall.
The sheer artistry in Bambi is undeniable. The designs, the backgrounds, and the animation are incredibly detailed and sophisticated. The characters are also more developed in Bambi. The songs are rather forgettable though (except for "Looking for Romance") and the plot is somewhat uninteresting.
Dumbo's barely a feature. I think it would have worked better as a 20-minute featurette. The visuals in Dumbo look very cheap, especially in comparison to Disney's previous films. The plot is quite thin and the narrative episodic. I also find the secondary characters like Tim or the crows redundant or annoying. The only thing redeeming about it is the animation of baby Dumbo as well as the "Baby Mine" sequence. The sequence is very heartfelt and the song is beautiful. "The Pink Elephants on Parade" sequence is certainly the film's highlight even though it's an obvious attempt to simply prolong the film's running time. I find it entertaining albeit overrated. It lost some of its uniqueness when it was blatantly copied for the "Heffalumps and Woozles" sequence.
The sheer artistry in Bambi is undeniable. The designs, the backgrounds, and the animation are incredibly detailed and sophisticated. The characters are also more developed in Bambi. The songs are rather forgettable though (except for "Looking for Romance") and the plot is somewhat uninteresting.
Dumbo's barely a feature. I think it would have worked better as a 20-minute featurette. The visuals in Dumbo look very cheap, especially in comparison to Disney's previous films. The plot is quite thin and the narrative episodic. I also find the secondary characters like Tim or the crows redundant or annoying. The only thing redeeming about it is the animation of baby Dumbo as well as the "Baby Mine" sequence. The sequence is very heartfelt and the song is beautiful. "The Pink Elephants on Parade" sequence is certainly the film's highlight even though it's an obvious attempt to simply prolong the film's running time. I find it entertaining albeit overrated. It lost some of its uniqueness when it was blatantly copied for the "Heffalumps and Woozles" sequence.
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thelittleursula
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Dumbo
Bambi is just the circle of life with a Deer was the main lead.
Dumbo however is a movie filled with heart and soul and Timothy the Mouse is one of the best Disney characters ever created and it's depressing how much attention or praise he gets, like none.
I don't like Pink Elephants's creepy animation and song though at least it's interesting, Bambi is a huge yawn.
If you want the circle of life done right, Lion King does it. Bambi however doesn't and just has empty "cuteness " and doesn't really flow storyline wise, because it's all just the circle of life.
Dumbo's story however flows well.
While Dumbo can be cute, it's so much more than just "cute ".
Bambi is just the circle of life with a Deer was the main lead.
Dumbo however is a movie filled with heart and soul and Timothy the Mouse is one of the best Disney characters ever created and it's depressing how much attention or praise he gets, like none.
I don't like Pink Elephants's creepy animation and song though at least it's interesting, Bambi is a huge yawn.
If you want the circle of life done right, Lion King does it. Bambi however doesn't and just has empty "cuteness " and doesn't really flow storyline wise, because it's all just the circle of life.
Dumbo's story however flows well.
This. Bambi is just "cuteness " While Dumbo actually has a decent and solid plot and storyline. Bambi is just " Awwwh, Thumper is so cute " ! And " Awwh, look at baby Bambi and Thumper on the ice, awwwh so cute " !Dr Frankenollie wrote: I'm honestly baffled by people who prefer Bambi, unless they are simply blinded by nostalgia or are the kind of deluded people who think Avatar is one of the greatest films ever made just because it has good visual effects.
While Dumbo can be cute, it's so much more than just "cute ".
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Dr Frankenollie
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And your point is...? I candidly stated that I was confused by the love for Bambi, and considered possible explanations. They can still have their opinions, as nonsensical as they are.qindarka wrote:How do opinions work?
How did I suggest that I was special in disliking Avatar? I was supercilious, yes, but didn't insinuate the majority of people admire Avatar whatsoever.qindarka wrote:And no, you aren't special in disliking Avatar. There isn't really much praise for it nowadays, the amount of detractors, on the internet, at least, far exceeds those who praise it.
Sorry, but I don't allow my views on a film to be dictated by the people behind it.qindarka wrote:Walt himself considered Bambi to be one of his best films. I suppose that he is blinded by nostalgia or one of those idiots who only care about visual effects.
I said "the kind of people who think Avatar..."Flanger-Hanger wrote:Well since I never cared for Bambi that much until recently, and I've never seen Avatar that disproves that point fairly quickly.
Nope.SWillie! wrote:Frankenollie, I think your blind hatred of Bambi is a little much, don't you?
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Dr Frankenollie
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Sotiris
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@Dr Frankenollie: You did come off as condescending and haughty when you basically called people who have a different opinion from yours, "deluded". People who like Bambi also provided reasonable arguments here so their opinions are certainly not "nonsensical". It's silly taking such an arrogant stance when it comes to something as highly subjective as art.
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Dr Frankenollie
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Sotiris wrote:@Dr Frankenollie: You did come off as condescending and haughty when you basically called people who have a different opinion than yours, "deluded". People who like Bambi also provided reasonable arguments here so their opinions are certainly not "nonsensical". It's silly taking such an arrogant stance when it comes to something as highly subjective as art.
DR FRANKENOLLIE enters STAGE LEFT. He sits at his computer and brings up the DVDizzy forum webpage, and looks at the Bambi vs. Dumbo topic.
DR FRANKENOLLIE: Hmm...I wonder what Sotiris has said.
He reads it.
DR FRANKENOLLIE: What's this?! Condescending? Haughty? Arrogant, me? Bah! Let me get the thesaurus to insult him (her?) nice and nasty. How about..."To say your own condescending qualities are far greater than anyone else's on the board would be magnanimous at best...needs a little work, but that's a good starting point...
I was going to reply in a characteristically callous, crude manner. But I have something rather better to say: Sorry.
Y'see, when I start criticising a film, I go into "critic mode", acting pompous, vicious, condescending, et al. And when I get rather good and impassioned about something, I start tossing around particularly nasty words like "deluded", "naïve", "simpler tastes" and "a fine example of why involuntary euthanasia should be universally legal".
But I have to reveal something: I'm not entirely serious. When I call you lot deluded, it's almost in tongue-in-cheek. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a troll (weeeeeeeeeeell... not entirely), I just like to have a bit of fun, and being supercilious is very fun.
If you love Bambi and hate Dumbo, that's fine. I'm exactly the opposite. I'm slightly less likely to listen to your opinions, but I'm not less likely to, well, like you. At least, not necessarily. I can wholly understand possible reasons why you would. I'm not the biggest fan of Bambi's music, yet I would comprehend it if someone adored the score and songs. I understand any fan's liking towards it for the animation alone, and the cutesiness of Thumper is another understandable reason for liking Bambi. And I'd understand it if you disliked Dumbo - maybe for the admittedly archaic caricatures of the Crows, maybe for the minimalist animation, maybe for the sparse plot, maybe because of the surreal Pink Elephants scene. I simply have a differing opinion.[/list][/i]