Is hand-drawn animation dead?

Disneyphile · Post by **Disneyphile** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:11 pm

I know, I know. It's the story, not the medium that's important. That's the mantra everyone's been repeating since Toy Story. But with Disney being the only U.S. studio that's even making entirely 2D animated movies that are widely released in the U.S., and with their last bona fide hit being 2002's Lilo and Stitch, the mantra's starting to wear a little thin. Agree or disagree?

SWillie! · Post by **SWillie!** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:35 pm

I'm sorry... Disney's the only studio doing 2D?

Even among the major studios - Pixar did Day and Night, which, as (very quiet) rumors have it, may have been an experiment to see how a 2D Pixar feature might work. Dreamworks is working on Me and My Shadow, which will be 50/50 2D and CG.

And that's not to mention the mutliple other, great studios that are putting out some awesome 2D features. Sylvain Chomet, with Triplets of Belleville and The Illusionist, and hopefully more to come... Cartoon Saloon with Secret of Kells and their current project, Song of the Sea. Jean-Christopher Lie's gorgeous looking upcoming French film, Zarafa. And then of course there's Miyazaki.

2D isn't dead. More spread out, yes. But not dead.

MJW · Post by **MJW** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:44 pm

Disneyphile wrote:But with Disney being the only studio that's even making 2D animated movies

Disney is the only American studio still making 2D full-length animated films; overseas the medium is still doing very well, take Studio Ghibli for example!

That said, I hope traditional animation is not dead in the US, but until the cheap thrill of *most* CGI movies wears off, it looks like this is the way it is going to be for the foreseeable future. CGI is like a new toy at Christmas - at first it's all the child wants to play with, but then, as time passes, they go back to their old toys, too.

It'd really be great if movie-goers would embrace animation for what it is at the core, whether 2D, CGI, stop motion, etc. CGI doesn't have to replace 2D, just as stop-motion hasn't gone extinct even though most films don't use the medium for special effects anymore. Traditional animation may never be as prominent as it once was, but I'd like to think it will always be around and we'll get a gem or two every once in a while (that is hopeful and sad at the same time

).

DisneyDude2010 · Post by **DisneyDude2010** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:57 pm

I think we all know the industry isn't as strong as it is in the 90's but I have to say even pixar and dreamworks still love 2d animation ..
I would love to see pixar do a 2d project

And yes dreamworks loves 2d aswell .... take Kung Fu Panda 2 - Po's flash backs were in 2d and were absolutely beautiful and I was very surprised that dreamworks choose to do this. I was lovely to see! And the shadow project seems really interesting and i really want to see 2d and 3d characters interact in this movie.

2d tv cartoons are still extremely popular e.g spongebob, phineas and ferb, simpsons, family guy etc...

But i would really like to see some 2d movie competitions from the studious and I do think all studios should consider a 2d movie for development.

(This maybe off topic but I am so shocked by Pooh's performance

i was at least hoping it would make a profit theatrically but this looks like it's not going to happen ... i wish Disney would properly market pooh and release it at a more suitable date [like in the uk, easter] so disney will not use the excuse "nobody wants to see a 2d film...." *sighs*..)

Neal · Post by **Neal** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:38 pm

A) I hadn't read into the details of "Me and My Shadow" before and holy shit - it sounds killer! A great plot, unique concept, and half 2D? I am excited - and that is RARE for a DreamWorks movie - I'm also excited about their "The Guardians" film, as well.

B) As for 2D, in the U.S. there aren't any studios currently making fully hand drawn FEATURES, that I know of (other than Disney.) But segments of hand drawn are featured in various films, like Kung Fu Panda (as it was pointed out.) Also many U.S. TV shows are still hand drawn, and hand drawn shorts are still common.

But the U.S. is only one country out of a current 196 or so. Look overseas and there are many hand drawn projects in development or recently released.

Studio Ghibli:
* Borrower Arrietty (2010)
* From Up on Poppy Hill (2011)

Michael Ocelot:
* Tales of the Night (2011)
* Kirikou and the Men and Women (2012)

Independent:
* Mia and the Migoo (coming to Region 1 DVD/Blu-ray soon, made overseas in 2008)
* My Dog Tulip (coming to Region 1 DVD/Blu-ray next month, came out in 2009)
* Zarafa (2012)
* A Cat in Paris (2010)

Cartoon Saloon:
*Secret of Kells (2009)
* Song of the Sea (TBA)

Headless Productions:
* I'm A Monster (TBA)
* Mr. Collieu (TBA)
* The Strange Case of Dad's Missing Head (TBA)

Plus numerous anime I'm not even aware of, but one that should be noted is Redline - which took 7 years to make and is coming to the U.S. in limited release this year.

milojthatch · Post by **milojthatch** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:42 pm

Not dead, just on life support!

Neal · Post by **Neal** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:13 pm

milojthatch wrote:Not dead, just on life support!

Do you really believe this or were you joking?

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:51 pm

^I think he was referring to 2D animation in America being coupled with CGI.

milojthatch · Post by **milojthatch** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:48 pm

I mean what ever you want it to mean.

There is still 2D animation being made in Hollywood. That art form still exist in the film industry. It's just very scarce, and CG defiantly dominates the land scape.

toplaycool22 · Post by **toplaycool22** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:31 pm

Thumbelina
The Pied Piper
Hansel and Gretal
The Elves and the Shoemaker
Puss in Boots
Tom Thumb
Sinbad
The Nutcracker
Swan Lake
The Princess and the Pea

and they should try to bring back The Snow Queen and Jack and the Beanstalk

SWillie! · Post by **SWillie!** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:26 pm

They obviously will never do Thumbelina, Puss in Boots, Sinbad, or Swan Lake, as they have all already have a feature animation film by other studios.

Disney's Talent Development team of interns did a short film version of Hansel and Gretel just a couple years ago, so they won't be doing that any time soon, and they have that Mickey's Twice Upon a Christmas that is basically The Nutcracker, so chances are that won't happen any time soon either.

That leaves The Pied Piper, the Shoemaker, Tom Thumb, and the Princess and the Pea. We'll have to see I guess. I don't see any of them happening. They're all just very old fashioned stories.

The Snow Queen has been confirmed as back in production/development.

Rose Dome · Post by **Rose Dome** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:03 pm

^ ^ ^

I'm hoping that that The Swan Princess doesn't stop Disney from ever doing Swan Lake. It's an ugly and uninteresting caricature of Disney, and the Ballet deserves better IMO. Even when I was seven it bored me when I saw it at a friend's house, and I was not a child with discriminatiing tastes (I liked Thumbelina

) If I'm going to be absolutely honest, I would love to see Disney do something along the lines of the Barbie version (not to the extent that Mattel would sue of course

) It's character designs are of a videogame standard, and it has some plot problems, but it's characters are interesting, and it's backgrounds are beautiful, plus it doesn't snub the original music for rubbish songs. It's pleasantly surprising

Should I have said all that?

milojthatch · Post by **milojthatch** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:10 pm

toplaycool22 wrote:Thumbelina
The Pied Piper
Hansel and Gretal
The Elves and the Shoemaker
Puss in Boots
Tom Thumb
Sinbad
The Nutcracker
Swan Lake
The Princess and the Pea

and they should try to bring back The Snow Queen and Jack and the Beanstalk

Nice list!

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:55 am

SWillie! wrote:They obviously will never do Thumbelina, Puss in Boots, Sinbad, or Swan Lake, as they have all already have a feature animation film by other studios.

Who's to say there should only be one animated version of those stories? Maybe Disney or someone else could do a less stupid version of Thumbelina.

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:51 am

Actually, I think they can still do all of these, just not right away.

Rose Dome · Post by **Rose Dome** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:41 am

ajmrowland wrote:Actually, I think they can still do all of these, just not right away.

This

The stories are public domain, and noone gets het up about live action remakes (unless they're rabid fans who could never be pleased

) I would love to see Disney's take on some of these stories, which in the cases of Thumbelina and Swan Lake would hopefully be closer to the Barbie versions

SWillie! · Post by **SWillie!** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:52 am

Well, maybe it doesn't eliminate the possibility entirely... but certainly for a good long time. I mean, imagine someone coming into a meeting with Lasseter today and starting a pitch about Thumbelina.

It would be like... ummmmm. No.

Wonderlicious · Post by **Wonderlicious** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:13 pm

Is hand-drawn animation dead? It does have enough backing to keep it going, as we can see. But I agree that it will probably never be the absolute preferred medium again, even if its popularity does climb.

SWillie! wrote:Well, maybe it doesn't eliminate the possibility entirely... but certainly for a good long time. I mean, imagine someone coming into a meeting with Lasseter today and starting a pitch about Thumbelina.

It would be like... ummmmm. No.

To be perfectly honest, the story of Thumbelina is so syrupy that I honestly wouldn't really want to go and see it. I mean, it's a story about a girl who pops out a pretty pink flower and has adventures with talking woodland creatures and flower fairies. As much as I like Hans Christian Andersen, I certainly do have my limits.

As for the other stories mentioned:

The Pied Piper When I was eight, I starred in a community theatre production of the story. The version I starred in was fairly light (the ending was happier, with the children returning once the people of Hamelin realised how hypocritical they are), but I always liked the darkness of the original story. Considering that the story is pretty dark, though, and that the Pied Piper isn't really a villain, I doubt that it'd get picked for feature development. It seems like something that would be done as a short or a half-hour featurette.

Hansel and Gretel It really is one of the last "red-hot fairy tales" (to borrow a phrase from Don Hahn). As long as Disney were prepared not to bowdlerise the story too much like even the classic opera does, then I'd be happy to see it get made.

The Elves and the Shoemaker I would think that this could make a good short film, though it doesn't seem like feature film material.

Puss in Boots Had it not been for Dreamworks, this would have been a perfect choice. It's really a trickster tale, so it could have been made into something quite picaresque and different to the usual Disney fairy tales, which have all focussed on well-behaved damsels. I remember an old Disney website that had this listed as being "rumoured", though I guess it'll never see the light of day unless Shrek becomes forgotten.

Tom Thumb Funnily enough, this has always been a favourite fairy tale of mine (or at least the Grimm's version of the story has), and I wanted Disney to make a version of this when I was younger. There's an old MGM musical version of the tale, which in some ways seems inspired by Disney's Pinocchio (folksy setting, a beautiful fairy, a pair of bumbling conmen being the main villains etc).

Sinbad I think that this would attract criticism, not because of people thinking that Disney would be copying Dreamworks (honestly, do many people who aren't hardcore animation geeks remember that Dreamworks made anything in hand-drawn animation?). Rather, I think that the public would start to make endless comparisons between that film and Aladdin, what with them coming from the same source material. The same might happen if Disney were to make a version of any other story from the Arabian Nights, I have to admit.

The Nutcracker / Swan Lake The pair are so tied to their ballets that I can't imagine them being adapted into animated films at Disney, especially given all the hoo-hah about wanting universal appeal with their films.

The Princess and the Pea It's perhaps the shortest of all the classic fairy tales; the original by Hans Christian Andersen is actually less than 500 words long! Aside from an extremely sensitive princess, there also isn't much that could be considered fantastic, and certainly nothing that couldn't be done in live-action. Unless they embellished the plot with lavish details and fantastic moments, which may upset the farcical tone of the story, then it probably wouldn't be worth it. There are better Andersen stories worth adapting out there (The Snow Queen being one of them).

Elladorine · Post by **Elladorine** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:35 pm

Wonderlicious wrote:Puss in Boots Had it not been for Dreamworks, this would have been a perfect choice. It's really a trickster tale, so it could have been made into something quite picaresque and different to the usual Disney fairy tales, which have all focussed on well-behaved damsels. I remember an old Disney website that had this listed as being "rumoured", though I guess it'll never see the light of day unless Shrek becomes forgotten.

I'm guessing that probably stemmed from Andreas Deja's book:

I used to have a signed copy and would have loved to see it animated. But I doubt Shrek or its spin-off will be forgotten anytime soon.

toplaycool22 · Post by **toplaycool22** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:29 pm

Both the Pied Piper and The Princess and the Pea have been made into animated features in other countries. But yea, I agree. Not enough story material. I would say Thumbelina, Puss in Boots, The Snow Queen, Jack and the Beanstalk, Swan Lake, The Nutcracker, Sinbad, and Tom Thumb have more of a chance of becoming great animated features.

By the way Sleeping Beauty is based from the ballet, so that shouldn't stop Disney from creating Swan Lake or The Nutcracker.

I agree that maybe The Elves and the Shoemaker, Pied Piper, Hansel and Gretel are best as animated shorts. I can't imagine Little Red Riding Hood, Ali Baba, The Three Little Pigs, The Ugly Duckling etc being full length.

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