Republicans start war against working people of America

[Goliath]

But tens of thousands of people have already started to revolt. Tens of thousands have flooded the Wisconsin State Senate and the streets of the capital.

Wisconsin state assembly votes through anti-union bill

The Wisconsin state assembly has voted to approve a plan to strip public-sector unions of most of their collective bargaining rights. Senate Republicans used a procedural move to pass the bill on Wednesday. Republican Governor Scott Walker promised to sign the bill into law as quickly as possible. AFL-CIO union leader Richard Trumka earlier attacked the Republicans' move as a "corruption of democracy". The plan has prompted widespread protest. Police have been ejecting demonstrators from the state capitol building after weeks of mass demonstrations in support of public workers. [...]

The US state's 14 Democratic senators had sought to prevent the bill moving forward by fleeing the state, leaving the chamber short of the number needed for a vote. But Republicans used a procedural move to allow them to vote on the measure in committee instead on Wednesday evening. Crowds of protesters swamped the state capitol in Madison following the vote. The state House - the lower legislative chamber - passed the measure in a 53-43 vote on Thursday afternoon, after police had removed protesters from the building.

The state faces a $3.6bn (£2.23bn) budget deficit in the coming two-year period. The bill on labour unions would affect rubbish collectors, teachers, nurses, prison guards and other public workers. Democrats, labour unions and their supporters, who disparage the bill as an attack on labour unions and on the middle class, spent three weeks protesting at the state capitol building. On Thursday, Mr Trumka, head of one of the largest labour union coalitions in the US, told reporters the Republican move had engendered solidarity among union supporters.

Wisconsin: Walker bill allows for any striking state worker to be fired

On Wednesday night, Republicans in Wisconsin's state senate rammed through a retooled version of Governor Scott Walker's controversial "budget repair bill" with the 14 senate Democrats still in hiding in Illinois. The senate bill eliminates collective bargaining rights for most public-sector unions, a provision that has labor leaders and protesters up in arms. But there's another explosive provision in the bill that's received little attention: The bill authorizes state officials to fire any state employee who joins a strike, walk-out, sit-in, or coordinated effort to call in sick.

Don't forget what Scott Walker said when he thought he was talking to his billionaire benefactor from Kansas, David Koch:

I told my cabinet ... about what we were going to do and how we were going to do it. We'd already kind of built plans up but it was kind of the last hurrah before we dropped the bomb. And i stood up and pulled out a picture of Ronald Reagan and said this may seem a little melodramatic, but 30 years ago, Ronald Reagan ... had one of the most defining moments of his political career, not just his presidency, when he fired the air traffic controllers. And I said, to me that moment was more important than for just labor relations or even the federal budget, that was the first crack in the Berlin Wall and the fall of communism ... in Wisconsin's history, this is our moment, this is our time to change the course of history ... for those who thought I was being melodramatic you now know it was purely putting it in the right context.

Now Walker just needs public employees to go on strike. So he can make history.

[ajmrowland]

Yeah. I'm no union worker, but still outraged! I read that this morning during my breakfast at McDonald's.

You know the worst of it: they only looked for this loophole *after* they started thinking they were gonna lose this bill.

[littlefuzzy]

I had vowed not to respond to any more trollish threads like this, but this just makes my head hurt. I hope people don't consider "trollish" to be a personal attack. Personally, I almost would consider the thread title to be a personal attack against UD members who are Republicans. Edit: I also consider the thread title to be trollish.

Last I checked, Republicans are working people too.

So they fled the state... In my mind, a move like that is harming democracy more than the Republicans using a legal procedural move to counter it.

Were the 14 afraid to have it on their record that they voted against the bill?

Would they have been "forced" to vote for it, due to other provisions that they couldn't pass up (or would harm their political careers if they voted against those provisions)?

A little math - the bill passed 53-43. If you added those 14 cowards to the "against" side, THE BILL WOULD HAVE BEEN DEFEATED!! - Assuming a simple majority is required to pass it, that is. Actually, ignore this part, it looks like the 14 were senate (where the bill passed in committee), while the other vote was in the assembly. However, the bill was duly voted on by (almost) all members of the assembly, so that part has nothing to do with it being forced through in committee in the senate. Blame the thousands of working class people who democratically VOTED for a Republican majority in the Assembly... Don't forget those same thousands of working class people also voted for a Republican majority in the Senate.

I am against EITHER side using delaying and stonewalling tactics like this. If something gets put to a vote and passes (or fails) that is democracy at work. For someone to delay a vote on a bill by fleeing the state, or by talking at random about the town they grew up in, and their family, etc., for hours upon end, or whatever other tactics they use is a PERVERSION of democracy... If the other side uses a legal tactic to force a vote, then that is their right. The side using the delaying tactic would have done the same if their roles were reversed. In fact, it seems like I have read many cases where the Democrats in power in various legislatures have pushed through their own bills in committee, and used other similar procedural tactics as the one used by the Wisconsin Republicans.

[Goliath]

I had vowed not to respond to any more trollish threads like this, but this just makes my head hurt. I hope people don't consider "trollish" to be a personal attack. Personally, I almost would consider the thread title to be a personal attack against UD members who are Republicans. Edit: I also consider the thread title to be trollish.

Last I checked, Republicans are working people too.

Please, quit the drama and respond to the facts. Yes, Republicans are working people too. But how does that negate the fact that the Republican governor Scott Walker and the Republican state Senate have rammed through a bill that destroys working people's right to bargain their working conditions. This bill means they can't do that anymore. They can't stand up for their rights as working people anymore, otherwise they will get fired. This is a giant throwback. This is going back 100 years in time. This is giving back all the power working people have gained through decades of emancipation --giving it back to employers. This means working people in Wisconsin now have nothing left to protect themselves. Why don't you adress that, instead of trying to derail the thread already?

So they fled the state... In my mind, a move like that is harming democracy more than the Republicans using a legal procedural move to counter it.

How is it 'harming democracy'? I think it's more harming to democracy when someone runs for governor on a platform of supporting 'the average American' and then, as soon as he's into office, doing everything he can to work against them. This isn't what people have voted for. That's why none of this ever came up in the gubernatorial elections; because he knew this would be very unpopular. And it's showing in the number of protesters. And these are not 'professional protesters'; these are people from all walks of life. They're already carrying signs saying "Recall Walker".

A little math - the bill passed 53-43. If you added those 14 cowards to the "against" side, THE BILL WOULD HAVE BEEN DEFEATED!! - Assuming a simple majority is required to pass it, that is.

Wow, that is such a gross misrepresentation of the facts, that you have me stunned... These 14 Senators were in fact heroes, for standing up for the working people. Why you are so vehemently opposed to them, is a mystery to me. Unless you are *not* part of the working or middle class, you have no stake in working against these Senators and their objectives. The 14 left the State to prevent a vote taking place. How could they know Republicans would use unforeseen tricks to pass the bill anyway?

Blame the thousands of working class people who democratically VOTED for a Republican majority in the Assembly... Don't forget those same thousands of working class people also voted for a Republican majority in the Senate.

Think for a minute... Had Scott Walker and the Republicans been honest during the campaigns and said they would want to strip working people of their collective bargaining rights, do you think they *still* would have won? They knew this was highly unpopular, and it shows in the protests going on for weeks now, where people of all political leanings are represented. I agree, those people who voted in Republicans should have known better. They should have known Republicans have been trying to destroy organized labor since Ronald Reagan. But it's hard resisting the disinformation of a nation-wide tv channel of lies and deception; and a so-called 'grassroots' Tea Party campaign that was funded by the multimillionaire Koch brothers. I don't blame the victims. You do.

But in a democracy, having cast a vote doesn't mean you have to shut up until the next election. You can go out and protest.

[dvdjunkie]

You don't live in the United States. You live in the Netherlands and I don't think you know what you are talking about. You need to get your facts straight, and look at the reasons things were done.

Please don't start threads about things that don't affect you personally. We have enough going on here in the US without a foreigner trying to make things look worse than they are.

[SpringHeelJack]

Please don't start threads about things that don't affect you personally.

Well, THAT'S a ridiculous request. Half the topics anyone starts don't affect them personally, and that should never be a qualification. I could start a topic discussing unrest in Libya, but that's not affecting me personally.

[Goliath]

Naomi Klein, author of 'The Shock Doctrine: Rise of Disaster Capitalism' on The Rachel Maddow Show explains why the Walker-bill in Wisconsin isn't about the budget or the deficit. It's ideologically motivated, like Walker had already admitted to the fake-David Koch (see article in first post).


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MADDOW: Do you see disaster capitalism at work in these state budget fights? Because I do.

KLEIN: Yes, I definitely do. And—but it‘s important to remember that these guys have been at this for 30 years. I mean, they‘re part of an ideological movement and they believe in a whole bunch of stuff that‘s not very popular.

You know, there are some policies in the ideological Republican playbook that a lot of people like: everyone likes a tax break. But if you talk about you‘re privatizing the local water system, busting unions, privatizing entire towns, things like this, if you run an election and say this is what I plan to do, you—chances are you will lose that election. And this is where crises come in. They are very, very handy, because you can say we have no choice. You don‘t have to win the argument any more. You just have to say the sky is falling in. We have to do this. You can consolidate power.

We remember this from the Bush administration. They did this at the federal level. After 9/11, they said, we have a crisis, and we have to essentially rule by fiat. So, the first stage is to consolidate power. But that‘s not the end goal. It‘s just to hoard the power. It‘s then to auction off the states because these guys really don‘t believe in the governments that they are running. I mean, this is a really old story.

But, you know, if you look at what‘s going on in Wisconsin, why are they so desperate to tie the hands of unions? Why are 16 states facing similar battles? Unions are the final line of defense against privatization of the public sector. Unions are the ones who fight privatization of the school system, of the water system, of the power system. That‘s where the real money is. I mean, you got to keep our eye on the prize, because there‘s a lot of money to be made in the kinds of crony deals that could be rammed through when you have all of that power consolidated in the governor‘s office.

Full transcript here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41993010/ns ... ddow_show/

[Lazario]

These 14 Senators were in fact heroes, for standing up for the working people. Why you are so vehemently opposed to them, is a mystery to me. Unless you are *not* part of the working or middle class, you have no stake in working against these Senators and their objectives. The 14 left the State to prevent a vote taking place. How could they know Republicans would use unforeseen tricks to pass the bill anyway?

They should have known their opponents better than any of us could have guessed- and even I can tell you: Republicans have no honor, no guts, and no shame.

As for the Republicans on this forum... you realize we're talking about politicians here. I doubt anyone has to clarify the topic or news postings, insulting your intelligence in doing so, by emphasizing "Politicians who occupy seats in official voting chambers," etc(.), for you to understand this isn't a personal attack. Unless you think you're the same as these people- just because, if you lived in Wisconsin, you may have voted for them.

For you two guys freaking out about this, you don't seem to have anything to say about this issue at hand. You think the news articles aren't trust-worthy? Facts have been mis-represented? Do you have counter sources that back up your claims?

As for Goliath's postings, I'm not surprised by any of it. Sounds like business as usual in America. But let's listen to 'junkie and 'fuzzy, in case they're right. Let's hope that workers don't need these rights that are being taken away from them. After all- I don't know why this is happening. What reason businesses have to do all this... YET. None of us do. But are you two willing to take that chance? That your trust in Republicans means that they're doing the right thing? And that we can forsee the motivation the right and the businesses union workers are employed by for wanting this bill into law? Why do you guys think this is happening?

And - quit the discrimination techniques, you guys. The Democrats don't have to be "heroes" but they sure as hell aren't cowards. And whether Goliath is a foreigner or not has no bearing on what he's posting.

[Goliath]

Thanks, Lazario, I appreciate that. Maybe some people who have been reacting in a negative way to this thread have been exposed to the 'Republican media' for too long.

I mean, remember how the events in Wisconsin all started with Gov. Walker's attempts to bust the teacher's unions. Ever since, when you turned on mainstream tv news, you'd hear Republicans and conservative pundits mischaracterizing teachers in public schools are some kind of fatcats; as rich people who only have to work half-time. While in fact being a public school teacher is a very hard and demanding job, and teachers don't make that much. Yet, if you only watched Fox News, you would get the impression that teachers were like spoiled brats who didn't want to pay their share to bring back the debt. I've never seen such a coordinated media attack at working people before.

The people on Fox News (and other channels) who were arguing for stripping the teachers unions of all their rights and cutting their salaries, are the very same people who constantly say that we can't return to the 39% income tax rate for people making over $ 250,000 a year (like we had in the Clinton era, when the economy was booming); the very same people, too, who say we can't tax or maximize the bonuses and benefits of the managers of the Wall Streets banks which got bailed out with taxpayers money after they torpedoed the economy!

It's the most absurd doublespeak I've heard in a long time. This is the right-wing these days: cutting teachers salaries, but not taxing those who caused the financial crisis a little more. I find that disgusting.

Jon Stewart rightfully exposed these people's hypocrisy:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-m ... all-street

[Lazario]

I think Republican citizens are of the opinion that jobs and their wages are meant to be suited to people who fit the lifestyles those paychecks can afford them. "You don't like that job, get a better one." Poof! Like magic. And then, everything else just falls into place. Like: gas / heat, electric, water, phone / internet, car / truck, groceries, taxes, etc. I mean, forget how those bills go up and up and paychecks never do. Just get another-another job. And when things start to go bad there, get another-another-another job. It's so easy. The trick? Never get used to a lifestyle. Too much hastle to pack it all up when you have to move or change jobs for the 8th time in half that many years...

[Goliath]

Maybe people got upset at the word 'war' in the thread's title, but I thought it was fitting, since Republicans like to declare war at anything. You know, 'war on drugs', 'war on crime', 'war on terror'.

And now, it's a war on the working people. And not just that. It's a war on democracy itself. You may think I'm a drama queen or an alarmist, but listen to what happened in Michigan (see transcript below) and then tell me if I'm over-reacting.


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NAOMI KLEIN: Well, I just found out about this last night, and like I said, there’s so much going on that these extraordinary measures are just getting lost in the shuffle. But in Michigan, there is a bill that’s already passed the House. It’s on the verge of passing the Senate. And I’ll just read you some excerpts from it. It says that in the case of an economic crisis, that the governor has the authority to authorize the emergency manager—this is somebody who would be appointed—to reject, modify or terminate the terms of an existing contract or collective bargaining agreement, authorize the emergency manager for a municipal government—OK, so we’re not—we’re talking about towns, municipalities across the state—to disincorporate. So, an appointed official with the ability to dissolve an elected body, when they want to.

AMY GOODMAN: A municipal government.

NAOMI KLEIN: A municipal government. And it says specifically, “or dissolve the municipal government.” So we’ve seen this happening with school boards, saying, “OK, this is a failing school board. We’re taking over. We’re dissolving it. We’re canceling the contracts.” You know, what this reminds me of is New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, when the teachers were fired en masse and then it became a laboratory for charter schools. You know, people in New Orleans—and you know this, Amy—warned us. They said, “What’s happening to us is going to happen to you.” And I included in the book a quote saying, “Every city has their Lower Ninth Ward.” And what we’re seeing with the pretext of the flood is going to be used with the pretext of an economic crisis. And this is precisely what’s happening. So it starts with the school boards, and then it’s whole towns, whole cities, that could be subject to just being dissolved because there’s an economic crisis breaking collective bargaining agreements. It also specifies that—this bill specifies that an emergency manager can be an individual or a firm. Or a firm. So, the person who would be put in charge of this so-called failing town or municipality could actually be a corporation.

AMY GOODMAN: Whose government they dissolve, a company takes over.

NAOMI KLEIN: A company takes over. So, they have created, if this passes, the possibility for privatization of a whole town by fiat. And this is actually a trend in the contracting out of public services, where you do now have whole towns, like Sandy Springs in Georgia, run by private companies. It’s very lucrative. Why not? You start with just the water contract or the electricity contract, but eventually, why not privatize the whole town? So—

AMY GOODMAN: And what happens then? Where does democracy fit into that picture?

NAOMI KLEIN: Well, this is an assault on democracy. It’s a frontal assault on democracy. It’s a kind of a corporate coup d’état at the municipal level.

But there IS hope. The people who are protesting in the streets of Wisconsin are not 'the professional left'. They are regular working people. Two days ago, a guy posted a message on Facebook, asking people to come together. 36 hours later, there were 50,000 people. I think people all over the country should protest. Because this is a concern to all citizens. Look at this footage of the protests in Wisconsin. Those people were ANGRY. And, unlike the Tea Party, they were not funded and exploited by multibillionairs. The people can prevail, if they stand together.


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Come Senators, Congressmen, please head the call
Don't stand in the doorway, don't block up the halls
For he that gets hurt, will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside raging
It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times, they are a-changing

- Bob Dylan, 1964

[jpanimation]

http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/l ... government

[ajmrowland]

You don't live in the United States. You live in the Netherlands and I don't think you know what you are talking about. You need to get your facts straight, and look at the reasons things were done.

Please don't start threads about things that don't affect you personally. We have enough going on here in the US without a foreigner trying to make things look worse than they are.

He could still be an American(unless he's not; I dont recall him saying that) and he has an internet connection, obviously. you have an internet connection. If you wanted to, you could learn about current events in Australia and about their government and in a few weeks, you'd be complaining just as much as they possibly might be cuz you chose to learn about them.

Just because Goliath's local news doesnt report it doesnt mean he wont pay attention. I've become so interested in American politics, I could live in Japan and still be able to discuss these things.

Edit: couldnt find a decent capture of the episode. I hope this will do for now.

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[Super Aurora]

Meh, Republicans fighting and continuing their typical routines. What else is new?


Call me when there is news of Giants shark aliens invading the earth using mechzoids and missle shooting dinosaurs. Then it'll catch my attention.

[Semaj]

That's what Wisconsin get for picking a Republican governor.

[Maerj]

I think Republican citizens are of the opinion that jobs and their wages are meant to be suited to people who fit the lifestyles those paychecks can afford them. "You don't like that job, get a better one." Poof! Like magic. And then, everything else just falls into place. Like: gas / heat, electric, water, phone / internet, car / truck, groceries, taxes, etc. I mean, forget how those bills go up and up and paychecks never do. Just get another-another job. And when things start to go bad there, get another-another-another job. It's so easy. The trick? Never get used to a lifestyle. Too much hastle to pack it all up when you have to move or change jobs for the 8th time in half that many years...

This is exactly right and this is what they say. The funny thing is, I know some who say this and I work with them and we make crap pay but they still defend this mindset. I know a guy who takes his wife out to McDonald's for dinner, eats off the dollar menu and shares a soda with her. But still he makes those comments. lol

[milojthatch]

I think this is a great piece.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7001 ... orate.html

Both parties, after surrounding themselves with "Yes" men, end up out of touch with the rest of reality, and the country as a whole. Gov. Walker is only the latest example. No matter who many people from Wisconsin tell him this bill sucks, he keeps saying that Wisconsin wants it. No Governor, they don't. Have fun being re-called next year...

[buffalobill]

That's what Wisconsin get for picking a Republican governor.

I bet they don't make that mistake again. Hopefully they'll recall Walker's ass faster than you can say Gray Davis (without Arnold as the next cheesehead governonr although anyone would be a drastic improvement).

[Goliath]

In fact, ajmrowland, I'm not an American, but I thought that, on an American forum, mostly visited by Americans, it would make sense to talk about American politics, instead of Dutch politics.

My empathy with other people doesn't stop at the borders of my country. I'm interested in everything that goes on all over the world. Because I don't think in nationalities or races, but only in 'people'. And when injustice is done to people, it doesn't matter to me whether or not I'm personally affected. I just want as much people as possible to be aware of said injustice, so they can do something about it.



Meanwhile, the people continue to protest. I hope as many people as possible join them.

Capitol Square overflows in largest Wisconsin labor solidarity demonstration yet

Overall, the rally looked to be the biggest yet, with Madison police estimating a crowd size of 85,000-100,000. […]

Of course, the highlight of the day was unquestionably the return of the 14 Senate Democrats. An overflow crowd that packed the Square and several State Street blocks greeted the returning senators like celebrities, chanting: "Thank you! Thank you!" and "Welcome home!"

After the senators had their turn at the mic and their share of the applause, the Reverend Jesse Jackson took the stage to drive home the message of the day. A chorus of voices ricocheted off the Capitol and down State Street, taking up the reverend's cry: "April 5, come alive!"

In fact, Super Aurora, apathy like that allows people like Gov. Walker and the Republicans to get away with it all. And this *is* new; at least the bill in Michigan is, which Naomi Klein in the video above talked about. That bill actually gives the Governor the power to dissolve elected bodies on the municipal level. Imagine what would happen had president Obama proposed such a thing...! Republicans would scream for his head! (And rightfully, so)

I think this goes further than just Wisconsin and Michigan. I think these bills that were just passed represent the attitude of the business elite which thinks they can get away with everything. Because the very people who wrecked the economy are the same who are behind these bills that would allow them to privatize basically everything at the municipal level, like Klein said. This was emphasized last wednesday by Michael Moore on Maddow's show:



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MOORE: I mean, really, this is really—this is war. This is a class war that‘s been leveled against the working people of this country and at some point, people are going to just have to stand up and say, nonviolently, “This is enough. We are not taking it any more.”

And I think these actions that happened today in Wisconsin and in Michigan where the governor, and the Senate today in Michigan, the House has already passed a version of this bill, they‘re going to get together now hopefully that‘s their plan, and the governor will sign it. And they are stripping the democratic rights of the people of the state of Michigan. They literally, at this point, the governor can dissolve a town, the elected officials of the town.

A month ago if you or I on this show had said, you know, what, we think—Rachel, and I think the government should have the ability to remove the elected mayor and city council of any town it feels like and put in one guy in charge of the town, what do you think would have been written or said about us?

The fact they think they can get away with this—I mean, you said it all in the last segment there. What happened three years ago in 2008, what happened is that they realized that they could get away with murder. They realize that they could loot the treasury. They could play with people‘s pension funds on Wall Street, they could destroy the economy, they could essentially do what they could to eliminate the middle class and there would be no response from the people. There would be no revolt. People would just take it and people took it.

People have been taking this now for about 30 years, ever since Reagan fired the air traffic controllers and we should have stopped them then. We shouldn‘t have those crossed the picket lines. People shouldn‘t have flown those planes. And once they saw they could get away with that 30 years ago, bit by bit by bit, right up until 2008, that was the big enchilada for them, and they got away with it. People didn‘t do anything about it. None of them went to jail. None of them are in jail for this theft.

And so, it comes now 2011 -- hey, why don‘t we just vote to take away people‘s Democratic rights? We can just eliminate the mayor of a town. We can just dissolve a school district. We can—in Wisconsin, we could just take away the right of working people to sit down and talk across the table about things that are a concern to them. They think they can get away with this. They honestly think they can get away with this. And I don‘t think they will get away with it.

Full transcript here: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42031950/ ... ddow_show/

[ajmrowland]

In fact, ajmrowland, I'm not an American, but I thought that, on an American forum, mostly visited by Americans, it would make sense to talk about American politics, instead of Dutch politics.

My empathy with other people doesn't stop at the borders of my country. I'm interested in everything that goes on all over the world. Because I don't think in nationalities or races, but only in 'people'. And when injustice is done to people, it doesn't matter to me whether or not I'm personally affected. I just want as much people as possible to be aware of said injustice, so they can do something about it.



Meanwhile, the people continue to protest. I hope as many people as possible join them.

Capitol Square overflows in largest Wisconsin labor solidarity demonstration yet

Overall, the rally looked to be the biggest yet, with Madison police estimating a crowd size of 85,000-100,000. […]

Of course, the highlight of the day was unquestionably the return of the 14 Senate Democrats. An overflow crowd that packed the Square and several State Street blocks greeted the returning senators like celebrities, chanting: "Thank you! Thank you!" and "Welcome home!"

After the senators had their turn at the mic and their share of the applause, the Reverend Jesse Jackson took the stage to drive home the message of the day. A chorus of voices ricocheted off the Capitol and down State Street, taking up the reverend's cry: "April 5, come alive!"

In fact, Super Aurora, apathy like that allows people like Gov. Walker and the Republicans to get away with it all. And this *is* new; at least the bill in Michigan is, which Naomi Klein in the video above talked about. That bill actually gives the Governor the power to dissolve elected bodies on the municipal level. Imagine what would happen had president Obama proposed such a thing...! Republicans would scream for his head! (And rightfully, so)

I think this goes further than just Wisconsin and Michigan. I think these bills that were just passed represent the attitude of the business elite which thinks they can get away with everything. Because the very people who wrecked the economy are the same who are behind these bills that would allow them to privatize basically everything at the municipal level, like Klein said. This was emphasized last wednesday by Michael Moore on Maddow's show:



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MOORE: I mean, really, this is really—this is war. This is a class war that‘s been leveled against the working people of this country and at some point, people are going to just have to stand up and say, nonviolently, “This is enough. We are not taking it any more.”

And I think these actions that happened today in Wisconsin and in Michigan where the governor, and the Senate today in Michigan, the House has already passed a version of this bill, they‘re going to get together now hopefully that‘s their plan, and the governor will sign it. And they are stripping the democratic rights of the people of the state of Michigan. They literally, at this point, the governor can dissolve a town, the elected officials of the town.

A month ago if you or I on this show had said, you know, what, we think—Rachel, and I think the government should have the ability to remove the elected mayor and city council of any town it feels like and put in one guy in charge of the town, what do you think would have been written or said about us?

The fact they think they can get away with this—I mean, you said it all in the last segment there. What happened three years ago in 2008, what happened is that they realized that they could get away with murder. They realize that they could loot the treasury. They could play with people‘s pension funds on Wall Street, they could destroy the economy, they could essentially do what they could to eliminate the middle class and there would be no response from the people. There would be no revolt. People would just take it and people took it.

People have been taking this now for about 30 years, ever since Reagan fired the air traffic controllers and we should have stopped them then. We shouldn‘t have those crossed the picket lines. People shouldn‘t have flown those planes. And once they saw they could get away with that 30 years ago, bit by bit by bit, right up until 2008, that was the big enchilada for them, and they got away with it. People didn‘t do anything about it. None of them went to jail. None of them are in jail for this theft.

And so, it comes now 2011 -- hey, why don‘t we just vote to take away people‘s Democratic rights? We can just eliminate the mayor of a town. We can just dissolve a school district. We can—in Wisconsin, we could just take away the right of working people to sit down and talk across the table about things that are a concern to them. They think they can get away with this. They honestly think they can get away with this. And I don‘t think they will get away with it.

Full transcript here: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42031950/ ... ddow_show/

Well, thank you for only furthering my point about educating oneself on other countries and a bit of history.

I live in Northeastern Wisconsin, so there's not much in the way of protests in my area, but the sound is ringing like the gunshot heard around the world............er............the state.