Blu-Ray vs. DVD

[MichaeLeah]

I wanted to collect everyone's thoughts on this idea. I am not interested in hearing what you think but I prefer to hear why you think so. Here is what is on my mind: I am trying to determine whether or not to purchase the older animated features on Blu-ray. I do not currently own a Blu-ray player, but I will certainly purchase one when my DVD player dies.

I find Luke's comments on Blu-ray in the context of his Pinocchio review very interesting. I wonder if he still feels that way. I understand that with new movies, especially the Pixar films, Blu-ray would certainly be the medium of choice. But I find myself wondering if Blu-ray is worthwhile for older Disney animated features. Does it preserve the original intent of the artists? Are they making these films overly clear and glossy? For example, I know that when they originally made Snow White, they purposely softened the colors because they were afraid that bright colors would give people a headache.

As we transition mediums, one thing that is very clear to me is that for most vintage Disney live-action films, Blu-ray will never be superior to DVD. They didn't spend money restoring these films for DVD, and they certainly won't seek to restore these films for Blu-ray. The only old Disney live-action feature that will probably look clearer on Blu-ray is Mary Poppins.

When I saw a demonstration of Eight Below on Blu-ray the other day, it looked to me more like a documentary than a movie. It doesn't seem to me movies were meant to be so clear. In fact, I understand some filming processes were intentially designed to give the film a gritty look. I don't see how 1080 can improve such a film. The nature of films is that they aren't supposed to look real. 1080 is perfect for a live football game. I just find myself struggling with the idea on the average film.

Please share your thoughts, but please don't just tell me you think Blu-ray or DVD is better. Please tell me why?

[The_Iceflash]

I have to agree with you on one thing and it's the "documentary feel" of some live-action films in HD. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching the behind the scenes of it being filmed where it feels more like they're a set than in reality. I don't know if that makes any sense. Besides that, I think Blu-ray is great and in most cases the HD quality preserves the original intent of the artists. There are obviously cases where it can be debated.

I definately think it's worthwhile for older Disney animated features. Even the animated films with a more conservative color palate benefit from it. The picture quality is only one-half of it. Audio quality is now improved. Not so much from the original prints and sound track but from compression of it on other formats. Now it can breathe. Most of the older Disney Blu-rays include original audio mixes restored so it's nice for an audiophile as well.


Speaking of Blu-rays, one thing I've seen and was confused about is when I see someone say they'd like an album released on Blu-ray. I mean, I know about DVD-A and all but some seem to be treating Blu-ray like it's an audio medium (i.e. record, cassette, CD, etc) but I view a Blu-ray audio like I do a DVD-A.

[PheR]

I just challenge everyone still on the fence on going blu for older animated classics to watch 'Sleeping Beauty' on Bluray, it is A-MA-Freaking-ZING! and of course, If you still can do it, cause that's already out of print, and it's really a shame you didn't catch it. Other classics on BD like SW, Pinocchio, Fantasia or BATB look beautiful but Sleeping Beauty, oh my, that's still one of the best looking BDs (not just Disney) ever!

And... of course, every Disney BD release has a DVD copy for everyone to watch until you can buy a BD player, so when you finally have one, and some of those titles are back in the vault, you won't need to pay big money on ebay for them.

[Prince Edward]

I just challenge everyone still on the fence on going blu for older animated classics to watch 'Sleeping Beauty' on Bluray, it is A-MA-Freaking-ZING! and of course, If you still can do it, cause that's already out of print, and it's really a shame you didn't catch it. Other classics on BD like SW, Pinocchio, Fantasia or BATB look beautiful but Sleeping Beauty, oh my, that's still one of the best looking BDs (not just Disney) ever!

And... of course, every Disney BD release has a DVD copy for everyone to watch until you can buy a BD player, so when you finally have one, and some of those titles are back in the vault, you won't need to pay big money on ebay for them.

I totally agree, you said everything that's on my mind about the subject. Everyone that's on the fence about Blu-ray should see Sleeping Beauty on Blu-ray. Then you will get off that fence really quick;)

[PheR]

Yeah!

That "documentary feel" you guys are tallking about is a feature most Full HDTVs have, and every company has a name for it (samsung calls it "Auto-Motion Plus"). A normal DVD or BD works at 60 Hz, this feature doubles it at 120 Hz or even 240 Hz so you can watch action and fast moving objects smoothier than normal, it technically adds fake virtual frames between the real ones and minimizes the bluryness of the picture. But that's a feature you can easily switch off while you watch movies on your HDTV, cause I agree, some movies look kind of odd with it.

[The_Iceflash]

I just challenge everyone still on the fence on going blu for older animated classics to watch 'Sleeping Beauty' on Bluray, it is A-MA-Freaking-ZING! and of course, If you still can do it, cause that's already out of print, and it's really a shame you didn't catch it. Other classics on BD like SW, Pinocchio, Fantasia or BATB look beautiful but Sleeping Beauty, oh my, that's still one of the best looking BDs (not just Disney) ever!

And... of course, every Disney BD release has a DVD copy for everyone to watch until you can buy a BD player, so when you finally have one, and some of those titles are back in the vault, you won't need to pay big money on ebay for them.

Since I wasn't purchasing BDs before the Diamond Editions began, I got Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty on DVD-only. After the error on Pinocchio's BD and with both being out of print now anyway I figured I'll just wait for the Diamond Editions of those. (I wish those two weren't Platinum Editions). I must say though that the Diamond Editions look amazing!

[MJW]

When I saw a demonstration of Eight Below on Blu-ray the other day, it looked to me more like a documentary than a movie.

Some HDTV's have a setting along the lines of "smooth motion" or "auto motion plus" that makes movies display on the screen almost as if they were filmed with a "news camera," meaning it has that "documentary" or "behind the scenes" look to it. As far as I know, these settings are to reduce motion blur and have something to do with duplicating frames to display movement better.

My Samsung LCD HDTV has this feature, it is called "Auto Motion Plus," and I turned it off because I didn't like the "documentary" look of live action movies and it also made animation look "jumpy" and wierd.

That being said, I am not sure that your concern over this look is the fault of Blu-ray media, but rather the playback device.

I am by no means an expert on this, but if anyone else can provide more details or correct a mistake I've made, please do so!

EDIT: PheR, I just saw your post, looks like we were thinking the same thing! Didn't want you to think I just copied your response.

[PheR]

EDIT: PheR, I just saw your post, looks like we were thinking the same thing! Didn't want you to think I just copied your response.

Nah, no problem you´re actually proving my point

[Flanger-Hanger]

The line art for animation never looked pixalated when drawn/painted and certianly never when projected. Even unrestored 35mm films don't have that look when put through a projector and viwed on the big screen. When SD content is viewd on HD displays (especially up close) it suffers from the minimal resolituion of older formats like DVDs and ends up lacking in sharpness.

Blu-ray is designed with HD displays in mind and all content shot on film (including animation) will look closer to the quality of theatrical presentations as a result.

As others have said, look at Sleeping Beauty on Blu-ray. If there's one DAC to convince anyone of the potential for hand drawn art on that format it's that designed-for-70mm production.

If you have an HD computer monitor feel free to look at screencaps on DVDbeaver on the Blu-ray released DACs, that should give you a good idea of the difference.

[BK]

No wonder. I knew there had to be something off with the clarity of HD screens that make everything look fake.

Then again, I just realized, I've been watching Blu-Rays on a HD screen but haven't noticed it. Maybe it's not switched on.

[Maerj]

Snow White on Bluray is the best home video presentation of that movie ever. That's worth an upgrade, IMHO.

[Escapay]

As we transition mediums, one thing that is very clear to me is that for most vintage Disney live-action films, Blu-ray will never be superior to DVD. They didn't spend money restoring these films for DVD, and they certainly won't seek to restore these films for Blu-ray. The only old Disney live-action feature that will probably look clearer on Blu-ray is Mary Poppins.

One can only hope that Disney treats live-action on Blu better than on DVD. Disney's live-action catalogue sucked on DVD because for the most part, Disney opted to use the old laserdisc (or even VHS!) master, as that was still considered "good enough." And in some cases, it was. The Story of Robin Hood and His Merrie Men is sourced from the laserdisc and looks fine...on my 13-inch TV in my bedroom. Watching it on the HDTV in the family room is jarring and it makes me cry.

And many studios have also been aware of this, which is why they're not quick to release catalog titles to Blu-Ray unless it's got a new HD master. The Sapphire Series release of Gladiator even had to be recalled and remastered because the scenes re-inserted for the Extended Edition was from a HD transfer made in 2000 and meant for SD viewing. Thus, it looked noticeably different to scenes in the Theatrical Release, for which a new high-quality HD master was made.

With Disney, I'm fairly certain that Mary Poppins has already been undergoing a massive HD restoration from the ground up (as opposed to just taking a print and HD-ing that). And another thread makes note that 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is getting similar treatment. Also, we can expect TRON on Blu-Ray with the sequel's home media release.

But there is still the possibility that Disney will actually "get it right" on Blu-Ray releases for catalogue titles, unlike their cock-ups on DVD (e.g. Blackbeard's Ghost being a pan-and-scan hackjob of the matted widescreen print). I know I'll probably wait a long time for The Rocketeer on Blu-Ray (but if Disney were to reboot the franchise with a remake and release the original to promote it, then I won't have to wait long!), but I know that when it eventually comes, Disney will NOT be that stupid to use the old LD transfer upconverted to HD. At the very least, it'll be a new HD scan of the master print with only marginal digital clean up (which is what I expect Disney will do when they reach the point that they have to release catalogue titles on Blu-Ray), but it'll still look miles ahead of the sorry DVD.

albert

[DarthPrime]

I think the current Animated Classics look great on DVD upconverted, but the Blu-rays do look better.

I'm still on the fence about a few of the 2011 Disney Blu-rays because I feel the DVD version I have is good enough. The way I'm buying right now is I'm only buying titles I don't have on Blu-ray unless there is a great deal for the Blu-ray version (and its a title I feel is worth the upgrade). Although with Disney's coupons and store deals its been hard not to upgrade a few titles that I hadn't plan too.

As far as the 120Hz etc... I have noticed what people are talking about on some sets. I'm glad it is a feature that you can turn on and off with the TVs though. However at home I only have 60Hz HDTVs right now.

[BellesPrince]

I've been blown away by every single Disney animated release so far in terms of the restoration. Less so with the extra's on Fantasia - if only they'd included the Vault stuff on the discs, I'd have been more than satisfied.

Sleeping Beauty and Beauty and the Beast are my favourite animated classics, so I'm very pleased that they've made it to Blu Ray early on. Sleeping Beauty because I think it's just one of the most beautiful films ever made, and the Blu Ray really shows it off. Beauty and the Beast, I just feel that everything comes together in that movie, the characterisation, the music, the perfomances, the animation, the story. I was amazed at how clear the animation was after being so used to the Platinum DVD for so many years, and it was a revelation, noticing things in the background which I'd never really seen before.

And of course, there's the huge improvement on the extra's over the DVD editions - the Snow White Hyperion Tour, Beyond Beauty, the Sleeping Beauty Cine-explore. And while we're on Sleeping Beauty, also the chance to see things like Grand Canyon in HD.

[Mr. Yagoobian]

The so-called average film is still shot on 35mm motion picture film. The process of placing motion picture film content onto DVD is one of subtraction, no matter the genre or style. 35mm release prints, 2k digital cinema presentation formats, & BD all share one thing in common: exponentially greater resolution and visual information than DVD. Not everything is the NFL or Pixar, not everything is meant to look bright & shiny. Toy Story 3: yes. The Godfather or The Good, the Bad & the Ugly---not so much. On BD they look an awful lot like *film.* On DVD, they look like movies on TV.

[PheR]

I think it also has to do with how much you like a certain movie, I own every WDAS Animated feature on DVD from Snow White to Home on the Range, but I'll only upgrade a few of those on bluray (If they ever release all of them of course).

I do not have Pinocchio on BD cause that's not one of my favorites and I think the DVD looks pretty good upconverted (I have the 2003 International SE DVD edition), so I can live with just the DVD version, even though I've seen the BD and it practically seems you have the original cells on your hands.

The same goes for movies like Three Caballeros, Make mine Music or even Peter Pan, but I will definitely buy my favorites on BD!! can you imagine 101 Dalmatians' xerox pencil marks in HD? or Hunchback's crowded scenes like the festival or when Quasi saves Esmeralda from the fire? Oh my!!

On the other hand... I must say, I will definitely buy Dumbo, even thought it's not one of my favorites either, it looks GORGEOUS!!!

[Wonderlicious]

I have yet to buy a Blu-Ray player, basically due to moving around a lot, but I have every intention to eventually go Blu, especially now DVDs are getting worse in terms of extras. The problem I have with a lot of Disney titles though is that the main reason for buying them is ultimately for the extras (since I already have them on DVD), and I wouldn't even get to experience the ones that would appear on the second disc (say we're talking about Platinums/Diamonds). Needless to say, I already got Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio for a really good price (Amazon UK had a Buy-one-get-one-free offer on Disney titles, so they ended up costing around £7-8 each!). Of the other catalogue Disney films that have been released, or we know that are coming, I intend on getting Dumbo, Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland, Beauty and the Beast, Toy Story and The Lion King. New Disney titles I intend on getting on Blu-Ray (and haven't already got on DVD) would include The Princess and the Frog, Up, Toy Story 3, Tangled and Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland, and non-Disney stuff (old or new) is another matter entirely.

Either way, I don't think I'll go crazy with buying Blu-Rays like I used to do with buying DVDs. I equally don't intend to re-buy things unless there seems a huge reason to upgrade. For example, I don't think I'll bother with Snow White, as the Diamond seems ultimately weaker than the Platinum, despite a good new restoration. I also don't think I'll get Bambi again (or a number of post-2004 Platinum/Diamond Editions, which from Bambi look to basically only slightly improve on their DVD counterparts), though I may rent it. Needless to say, if any film was reported to look absolutely stunning and had the potential of piercing eyeballs in its amazingness (much like with Sleeping Beauty), then I would probably succumb.

Either way, though, I have no intention on going 3D with Blu.

[BellesPrince]

The problem I have with a lot of Disney titles though is that the main reason for buying them is ultimately for the extras (since I already have them on DVD)...


...Needless to say, if any film was reported to look absolutely stunning and had the potential of piercing eyeballs in its amazingness (much like with Sleeping Beauty), then I would probably succumb.

But the point is that the main reason for buying them is not just the extra's, it's also the improved picture and sound quality.

And all the films do look absolutely stunning.

[milojthatch]

I had hoped this discussion was dead, as to me it seemed like the horse was beating to death enough, but I'm game for another round.

There are three things I'd point out. The first is cost and the reality, how many times do you REALLY want to buy "The Lion King" or "Snow White?" If you already bought many of these classics on VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD, are willing to once again spend hard earned money on the newest version of these films? Are you willing to say a decade from now re-re-buy them AGAIN on whatever is next in physical home entertainment after Blu Ray? Will there ever be a release that in not "The greatest version on this film ever released?"

Next, is extra features. Most Blu Ray's have really sucked at carrying over extras from the DVD's, even the Laserdiscs. The "Fantasia" films may be the best example of this.

Lastly is the debate when it comes to films made before HD, does HD really make them "better?" Cleaning film up is one thing, but were these old film MEANT for HD? Do they loose something not tied to technology along the way that makes them special? I'm reminded of an episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond" to illustrate my pint better. In the episode, Ray feels the need to make up for his father's old jazz records that he believes he ruined as a child. He buys the same albums but this time as CD's. His father hates them, he wants jazz RECORDS. Ray tries to tell them that the CD are better, that they restore and just sound better. His dad isn't buying it. He prefers the sound of music on vinyl, as this particular music was originally made for.

If none of these things matter to you, then I say, enjoy your new Blu Rays. But, if even one of these points make sense, you may want to enjoy what you have already. I for one have gotten in to Blu Ray, but I'm VERY particular about what I buy. First rule is I don't buy films I already own, I only buy new films on Blu Ray. I'm totally ok with my old DVD's (and even buy new ones still) and feel both can sit together just fine. But I understand that not everyone feels this way, so to each his own.

[BellesPrince]

Lastly is the debate when it comes to films made before HD, does HD really make them "better?" Cleaning film up is one thing, but were these old film MEANT for HD?

I think you're missing a major point here - film IS a HD medium, it has ALWAYS been a HD medium, films were not made before HD, we just haven't had the opportunity to see them in HD at home before.

They are not being converted into HD, they already were HD and we're now being given the opportunity to see them as they ARE MEAN'T to be seen.