Thumbelina vs. The Swan Princess vs. Anastasia

[Jay]

All three films are very obvious knock off's trying to cash in off of Disney's success. Which one is your favorite and why? I really like Anastasia the most. I love the songs "Journey to the Past", "Once Upon a December" and "In the Dark of the Night". The characters are all fun and the animation is great! Overall it is well done and feels the most Disneyesque imo. The others are ok as well but I like Anastaia the best.

I also really like "The Princess and the Goblin" but I believe it was made in the UK? So I don't know would that be considered a Disney knock off as well? Idk haha.

[blackcauldron85]

Anastasia is my favorite non-Disney animated film. I'm not a fan of Rasputin- he just seems so different from the other characters, it bugs me- but I like the Disney-ness of it. I like Anya. I like Puka. I like Dimitri (and he's hot!). I like the grandmother and Dimitri's partner. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I have always enjoyed it. I like "Journey to the Past", "Once Upon a December" (I sing that song all the time ), and the Donna Lewis/Richard Marx song. I don't even remember Rasputin's song (I didn't remember that he had one until I looked up "In the Dark of the Night" on Google), but I like the other songs as well. I haven't seen Thumbelina, except for a few clips online a few weeks ago. I saw The Swan Princess when it came to video (my uncle let me borrow it), but I don't remember anything besides Jean Bob and there was a bird.

[Jay]

Haha I love the Donna Lewis and Richard Marx song as well!!! I can't believe I forgot about it!!!!! I sang it in elementary school far music class and I knew it was familar but I couldn't remeber!

[SpringHeelJack]

"Anastasia" no doubt. It has the strongest story and the songs by Broadway composers Stephen Flaherty and Lynn Ahrens represent some generally strong work (though that Paris song never did much for me). Also, with the exception of Meg Ryan (IMO, who always sounds detached and over-the-top), it has a very good cast. Sometimes the animation is a little... much (characters have a tendency to use excessive hand motions for some reason) and Rasputin is probably a little too vague to be an effective villain (the part where he sells his soul for evil powers should have been implied or actually shown, not done in a quick clip with Mrs. Potts doing v/o work), but of the three it's easily the best.

I've never seen "Swan Princess" so I can't really comment, but I watched "Thumbelina" a few months back and I loathed it. It likewise has a pretty good cast (though the use of Jodi Benson will always feel like a way to capitalize on "TLM" to me) but they're stuck with a lousy formulaic script lacking in any charm and some of the most God-awful songs I've ever heard ("Marry the Mole" is perhaps the nadir of the score).

[Cordy_Biddle]

If you put a gun to my head I'd say "Anastasia". It was the truly movie I got most excited about (having also been fascinated by the true story AND the earlier Ingrid Bergman film on which it's heavily based).

I distinctly remember seeing the trailer (and later of course the film itself) in cinemas and going orgasmic over it... Everything about the film is perfect - the characters, the score, the plot... It's the most perfect non-Disney animated film IMO... Not to mention I still have tonnes of the merchandise (including the "Once Upon a December" music box, Burger King figurines, Anya and Anastasia dolls, etc).

The other two films I also really love...and came during special parts of my later childhood so I'll always have a place for them, but it's always going to be "Anastasia" for me.

[blackcauldron85]

I had read that other people don't like "Marry the Mole" in another thread, and now that it was brought up again, I had to YouTube it. It's not so bad...I mean, I don't know how it fits in the context of the film...and obviously it's not a good message, haha...

...and I pressed the wrong key and everything I just typed got erased from this point on.

Um, I don't remember what I wrote after that directly, but then I wrote that it's funny, and someone mentioned on YouTube, too, that it's funny that when the mole (?) is singing about Romeo & Juliet being dead, Thumbelina looks happy.

Then I said that I just can't stand the animal designs in Thumbelina from the clips I've seen. The mama and child ladybugs (?) in "Let Me Be Your Wings" aren't too too bad, but all the other animal designs make me cringe...I really do like the designs of Thumbelina and the Fairy Prince, and the animals are just not in the same league- it's such a discrepancy in style, IMO.

I think if it weren't for the animals (and obviously the storyline would have to be changed), I would like Thumbelina...and I should give it a chance before saying that I don't like it...

Are these 3 the most Disney of the non-Disney films? Or at least as far as princess films, go, I guess?

*edit* Listening to "Soon" now, which I haven't heard before. Um I don't even like the design of the dog. A mustache, really? Very pretty song, though. And I do like "Let Me Be Your Wings".

[Cordy_Biddle]

Manilow's score for "Thumbelina" is probably it's biggest strength. And the voice cast is fantastic - Jodi Benson as Thumbelina, Gary Imhoff as Cornelius (WHAT A SINGING VOICE!), Barbara Cook as Mother, Carol Channing as Mrs Field Mouse, and Charo as Mama Toad.

Too bad the soundtrack went OOP years ago...

[Flanger-Hanger]

Anastasia > Swan Princess > Thumbelina

Both mine, and would appear to be, popular opinion based on IMDB ratings.

[TheSequelOfDisney]

I've never seen Anastasia or The Swan Princess, so my vote goes to Thumbelina. It may not be the best animated film in the world, but it does have some merits: The voice cast is pretty wonderful and the most of the songs are enjoyable as well (with my favorite being Let Me Be Your Wings). It has some flaws, but overall it's a nice little film.

[Siren]

I personally get tired of the idea that if its not Disney its automatically ripping Disney off. If they made a movie about a destructive alien befriending a destructive little girl and they both become better people, I'd say, that was a rip off of Disney. I find it a bit narrow minded to accuse other animation studios of being Disney. Shall we accuse Warner Brothers Looney Tunes of being rip offs of Mickey and Friends?

On the idea of which three movies is the best....

Thumbalina, though not my favorite, actually stayed the closest to the original story. Judi Benson's voice was perfect for her. And I felt only a few times did she sounded a lot like Ariel. I think what really ruined the movie for me was the obnoxious frogs. In the original tale they were pretty obnoxious but the addition of the heavy accents and Latin feel just detracted very much from a fairytale. It modernized it too much at that moment. But other than the frogs, I felt the music and animation was great.

Swan Princess, I think this was a great movie. I love watching Odette and Derek grow up. How Odette was an ugly duckling for a little while and then Derek sees how beautiful she became. The music was well done. But like Thumbalina, the frog I found annoying. And the other sidekicks felt pretty pointless. But other than that, the music, animation, and story all nice.

As others say here, out of the three Anastasia was the best. The music was amazing. The animation very nice. The sidekicks for good guys and bad both didn't take the spotlight away as much as the two other movies did. The Once Upon a December song was one of the most haunting and beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard and seen.

I just again said, it would be nice if people could get out of the mindset that Disney is the ONLY animation company out there and all others are just wanna-bes. That isn't fair to the people who dedicated themselves to those pictures, especially considering 2D seems to be a fast dying art. I only hope Don Bluth keeps on working as he is a great supporter of 2D animation.

[blackcauldron85]

I was at Sears yesterday, and they had the Thumbelina DVD for $7.50. I don't have even that to spend right now, but I wonder if I would've bought it had I had the money.

I had sold some DVDs a few months ago, and while I don't miss some of them, some I do, and I even rebought some. I never, until a few days ago, and it was because...it must've been UmbrellaFish, he wrote that he owns The Tooth Fairy and will just fast-forward to Julie's parts. And then it hit me a few days ago (or maybe right when I read it a few weeks ago, I don't know), that even if you don't like a movie as a whole, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't watch the movie. Fast-forwarding a movie to only parts that I like was never a concept at all for me (except when watching Aladdin as a kid, and I'd fast-forward to and rewind A Whole New World a lot)...so for a movie like Thumbelina, even though maybe I wouldn't like all of the film, since the animals bother me, surely I'd at least like the love story, since from the little I've seen, I do like Thumbelina and Cornelius. Same with The Return of Jafar- it's one of the DVDs I've sold, unfortunately, because, frankly, it puts me to sleep, but I do love Jasmine and "Forget About Love", so if for nothing else, I could just fast-forward to the parts that I do like...

But Anastasia is in my Wish List on Amazon.

[Escapay]

I personally get tired of the idea that if its not Disney its automatically ripping Disney off. If they made a movie about a destructive alien befriending a destructive little girl and they both become better people, I'd say, that was a rip off of Disney. I find it a bit narrow minded to accuse other animation studios of being Disney. Shall we accuse Warner Brothers Looney Tunes of being rip offs of Mickey and Friends?

...

I just again said, it would be nice if people could get out of the mindset that Disney is the ONLY animation company out there and all others are just wanna-bes. That isn't fair to the people who dedicated themselves to those pictures, especially considering 2D seems to be a fast dying art. I only hope Don Bluth keeps on working as he is a great supporter of 2D animation.

Bless you, Siren.



Anyway, I'd rank the movies like this:

Anastasia > The Other Two. I don't care enough for Thumbelina or The Swan Princess to try to figure out which one I dislike less.

albert

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Anastasia > Swan Princess > Thumbelina.

Nostaligiachicks review of Thumbelina pretty much sums up how I often feel about the movie. Seriously. She has a bird friend and doesn't even think to ask him for a ride until near the end, and instead whines about how impossible everything is in what feels like every scene....


*headdesk*headdesk*headdesk*

At least Odette only became that passive in the sequels from what I can recall.

[Siren]

Anastasia > Swan Princess > Thumbelina.

Nostaligiachicks review of Thumbelina pretty much sums up how I often feel about the movie. Seriously. She has a bird friend and doesn't even think to ask him for a ride until near the end, and instead whines about how impossible everything is in what feels like every scene....


*headdesk*headdesk*headdesk*

At least Odette only became that passive in the sequels from what I can recall.

Like I said, they kept with the original. That is how the fairytale went. I totally agree with you about the common sense aspect, but when it was first written, few fairytales had strong female roles. As much as I enjoy feisty and independent female characters, many of the characters we see in Disney movies were not like that at all in the original story.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

^ Oh, I know they stayed close to the original in that way, but I think that was (part of) the downfall of Thumbelina. It's just really hard for me to be sympathetic towards her when she's so passive and not working to get things done.

If Disney had stayed closer to the originals for their fairy tales, I might have totally different opinions of the movies, either for better or worse depending on the movie and just how close they stayed.

While I do love Don Bluth's work at least Thumbelina is a lot better than Troll in Central Park. Little Einsteins is less demeaning towards a childs intelligence than that movie. (Apologies for the slight veer off-topic at the end.)

[Disney's Divinity]

While I think Anastasia is technically the best of the three (better animation than Swan Princess, though too over-rotoscoped to be better than Thumbelina for me; better cast; better songs, though Thumbelina isn't too bad; and more of a structured storyline), it's personally my least favorite. It's just a combination of many factors: Anastasia is a fairly annoying heroine (although I've started to wonder if that's true, or if it's just Meg Ryan that's bugged me all along) and Rasputin is a weak villain that kind of derides the rest of the movie. The film would've been much better if there were no real villain (tbh). Still, the film's not bad.

Thumbelina's only real detractor is the cutesy-cutesiness of the whole thing. But I love the heroine (which may also be biased because of Benson being her actross, I know) and the hero. I always loved the finale, which is very climactic for me personally. There's also a sense of the film being a little scatter-brained with the constant to-and-fro from the frogs, to the beetles, to the mole, etc (part of the original tale, I know, but still). But I think it still works very well overall.

I think The Swan Princess has a very strong story (and heroine, who trumps the other two, imo). The characters of that film are collectively stronger than the other two (again, my opinion), Uberta being my personal favorite. Like with Anastasia, the villain is the only real weak point, but he does what he needs to for this film (whereas Rasputin seems a little out of place in Anastasia). The animation is, of course, also somewhat weak (though I'm wondering if it's more the design than the animation that's bad). And the music is undeniably the weakest of the three. Still, I really have a lot of love for this film, though not for its sequels (but let's be fair, most animated sequels--Disney or otherwise--suck).

Overall, Anastasia has the most going for it, as far as checklists go. But, for me personally, Thumbelina and The Swan Princess have much more charm. All three could very well sit along some of Disney's own films (as far as success goes), although I don't think any of them goes far enough to be on the same level as something like Bambi or Beauty and the Beast (or even something like Spirited Away or The Prince of Egypt). Still, they are far from bad films and, at the very least, they're all entertaining.

[blackcauldron85]

Rasputin is a weak villain that kind of derides the rest of the movie. The film would've been much better if there were no real villain (tbh).

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one! And, while I've never thought about the film not having a villain, as much as I dislike Rasputin, that's not a bad idea...

[pinkrenata]

I haven't seen Thumbelina or The Swan Princess recently enough to give a valid opinion. However, I can pretty confidently say that Anastasia is and always will be where it's at.

[blackcauldron85]

^ Oh no! I bet you posted a great picture, but Angelfire doesn't want us to see it!

[Mooky]

"Anastasia" all the way. It has everything going for it (strong leads, exciting story, lush, fluid animation, impressive voice-cast, fantastic songs and an amazing, chills-inducing score). The only thing that drags it down is - like many have already said – the lack of a strong villain. Though to be fair, Rasputin's actually okay... when he doesn't indulge in self-pity and becomes a comic relief. Seriously, if you have seen real Rasputin's photos, you know the man was scary beyond all reason. Why Bluth and Goldman didn't opt for a more menacing and terryfing version of the character is beyond me. It's still a brilliant film and, for me, it pretty much trumps every post-"Aladdin"-pre-"Mulan" Disney feature.

(On a semi-related note: a thought just occurred to me... Angela Lansbury is in three of my Top 5 animated films. Guess which three )

"Thumbelina", on the other hand... Tedious, insipid and just plain boring. I guess it just goes to show how dull and uninspiring a movie can become if you stick to the source material too close. It's not without its merits though: most of the songs are good, character designs are surprisingly appealing (save for critters' – those are awful), and animation is as great as in every Bluth movie, and... yeah, that's pretty much it. Everything else is just too sugary sweet and juvenile for my taste.

As for "The Swan Princess"... I place it below "Anastasia" but I can't actually think of anything that really bothers me about it. It's just a matter of preference, I guess. Oh, wait, there is something: whose bright idea was to name the prince 'Derek'? Nothing says medieval Europe like a 20th century name. Other than that, the movie's quite good – a bit childish at times, but still miles above the likes of "Thumbelina". The songs are great, as well as accompanying visuals (especially "Princesses on Parade"), the score is quite solid, the story is good, and some of the artwork is breathtaking. And I'm sorry Naveen, but Jean-Bob is still my favorite amphibian. Also, I always wondered how different the movie would have been if they had used Tchaikovsky's original music, à la "Sleeping Beauty". The sequels I didn't mind: they're nothing but rehashes of the original, but they're kind of charming in a guilty pleasure sort of way. I even ordered "The Complete Adventures of The Swan Princess" off Amazon just because I wanted them in my collection. Yeah... But hey, at least they're better than Richard Rich's swan picture that followed them. That movie was just horrid.

^ Oh no! I bet you posted a great picture, but Angelfire doesn't want us to see it!

Try this: copy (don't click it!) the location of the image pinkrenata posted (it's below) and paste it into your browser's address bar and then press 'enter'.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/anya782/ima ... mitri2.gif