OAR for Disney films?

[tlc38tlc38]

I looked and I couldn't find a thread that listed all of the OARs for DACs. Can someone help me out with this?

Thanks!

[goofystitch]

From Snow White to Peter Pan, they were all filmed and released in fullscreen (1.37:1, also referred to as 1.33:1). Lady and the Tramp was filmed and released in Cinemascope (2.55:1). Sleeping Beauty was filmed in Cinemascope (2.55:1), but was released in Technirama70 (2.35:1). Due to the large expense of filming in widescreen, the rest of the animated films were filmed in fullscreen, but matted in to widescreen (1.75:1) for their theatrical release. However, there is some confusion for some films. One Hundred and One Dalmatians, The Sword in the Stone, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, and The Fox and the Hound were all released on DVD in fullscreen (original animated ratio), but The Jungle Book, The Aristocats, Robin Hood, and The Rescuers were all released in widescreen (matted theatrical ratio) for their DVD release. The Black Cauldron was filmed and released in widescreen (2.35:1). The Great Mouse Detective and Oliver and Company were filmed in fullscreen and matted into widescreen (1.75:1). Starting with The Little Mermaid, DACs were filmed in widescreen (1.66:1), but were matted into 1.85:1 in theaters. The two exceptions are Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Brother Bear, which were released in a wider aspect ratio (2.35:1). The recent CG films (Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons, Bolt) were all filmed and released in 1.78:1.

[tlc38tlc38]

I know the films made in fullscreen 1:33:1 will have the black bars on the side in Blu-ray. I guess my real question is will The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, The Lion King, The Hunchback, Hercules...have the black bars on the side. What will they look like in Blu-ray?

[goofystitch]

I know the films made in fullscreen 1:33:1 will have the black bars on the side in Blu-ray. I guess my real question is will The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, The Lion King, The Hunchback, Hercules...have the black bars on the side. What will they look like in Blu-ray?

As I said above, they were filmed in widescreen (1.66:1) and were matted into a slightly wider ratio in theaters (1.85:1), which is how they should be presented on Blu-Ray. There should be no pillarboxing (black bars on the sides) or letterboxing (black bars on the top and bottom) with those ratios.

[DisneyJedi]

Oliver & Company's original negative was 1.33:1? Weird. IMDB said it was 1.66:1.

[goofystitch]

Oliver & Company's original negative was 1.33:1? Weird. IMDB said it was 1.66:1.

I could be wrong on that one. I assumed 1.33:1 since that is what they used a year earlier on The Great Mouse Detective, but the following film was 1.66:1. Either way, OTR was 1.75:1.

[KubrickFan]

I know the films made in fullscreen 1:33:1 will have the black bars on the side in Blu-ray. I guess my real question is will The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, The Lion King, The Hunchback, Hercules...have the black bars on the side. What will they look like in Blu-ray?

As I said above, they were filmed in widescreen (1.66:1) and were matted into a slightly wider ratio in theaters (1.85:1), which is how they should be presented on Blu-Ray. There should be no pillarboxing (black bars on the sides) or letterboxing (black bars on the top and bottom) with those ratios.

I think they're going for 1.75:1 for the new editions. That way you will have no black bars at all. With 1.85:1 and 1.66:1 you still have small black bars, if you turn off the overscan option on your television (if it's available). But since it was animated for 1.85:1 anyway, I think they will opt for filling the entire screen.

[tlc38tlc38]

Why does my Hercules have black bars at the top and bottom of the screen? It says it's ratio is 1.66:1 on the back of the case.

[estefan]

The reason being is that the Hercules DVD wasn't adjusted for widescreen sets, for some odd reason.

[Escapay]

The reason being is that the Hercules DVD wasn't adjusted for widescreen sets, for some odd reason.

Yeah, it unfortunately came during Disney's early years of DVDs when they didn't believe in 16:9 enhancing a majority of their catalogue releases.

albert

[tlc38tlc38]

But if Hercules is released on Blu-ray which will they use? I would think they'd use the OAR for Blu-ray, which would include the black bars at the top and bottom, if this is the case that's gonna really blow.

[KubrickFan]

But if Hercules is released on Blu-ray which will they use? I would think they'd use the OAR for Blu-ray, which would include the black bars at the top and bottom, if this is the case that's gonna really blow.

It depends on what aspect ratio they'll use. If they use the AR the movie was produced in, you'll get black bars on the sides. If they use the theatrical ratio, you'll get them on the top and bottom. Both are legitimate. Of course Disney could also compromise and use the 1.78:1 ratio, which would fill the screen. They did the same with The Little Mermaid.

[DisneyJedi]

Well, it has been said that the will show their BD releases in their original negative.

[goofystitch]

Well, it has been said that the will show their BD releases in their original negative.

By original negative, you mean that all CAPs films will be 1.66:1? When and where did Disney say they would do this?

[disneyfella]

I thought I'd clarify a few things. Goofystitch is almost spot on with the aspect ratios, but after my digging through and research there are several films that I cannot verify an aspect ratio for.

By 1937, all "Academy Ratio" prints were 1.33:1. The camera would shoot the animated frame at 1.37:1, and then it would film the optical sound track to the side and overlay that over the animated image, thus making a 1.33:1 ratio for the film. The film-makers knew about this optical soundtrack, and so the film was framed with it in mind, knowing that the soundtrack would cover up part of the animated image in the original film negative.

In the early 1950s, a widescreen ratio was used in theatres in order to attract more audiences to the movies rather than watching a small television screen. Walt was keen to make the jump to widescreen in animated films as well and produced Lady and the Tramp (1955) in Cinemascope; a widescreen process that used an anamorphic lense both to film the picture and to project it. Since not many theatres were equipped to show an anamorphic image upon its release, Walt had the film completely reframed and refilmed for a seperate "Academy Ratio" film negative with which theatres could choose to exhibit.

By the mid to late 1950s, the Cinemascope process had been perfected and the soundtrack was also optically printed onto the widescreen negative, thus the 2.55:1 ratio had an optical soundtrack overlayed on it, bringing the aspect ratio down to 2.35:1. For Sleeping Beauty's (1959) Blu Ray release, the restoration team found a negative of the film before this optical soundtrack was overlayed on it. Thus while the original theatrical aspect ratio was 2.35:1, the fully animated frame was presented on the Blu Ray (a trend that I'm not keen on....but I'll save my opinions for another thread).

Sleeping Beauty was not a financial success, however, and Walt decided to cut the costs on his next animated feature. By employing a Xerox process and animating the film with his usual, and much cheaper camera, 101 Dalmatians (1961) had a much smaller budget and therefore higher profits than Sleeping Beauty. There are several reason why Disney may have decided to frame and exhibit 101 Dalmatians in "Academy Ratio", but all are speculation. What is known is that the film was instructed to be shown at 1.33:1.

Sometime between 1961 and 1970, Disney began the business of animating the film in "Academy Ratio" with instructions to matte the film upon theatrical release. By then the common ratio was 1.75:1. In fact, since Disney was the studio that utilized this ratio the most, it became known among projectionists as 'the Disney ratio'. Again, there are several reasons why Disney may have animated more than was intended to be shown, but they are also speculation.

In the 1980s, Disney was experimenting with several new processes in an attempt to invigorate the animation department. The Black Cauldron (1985) was produced in 70mm widescreen and again held the ratio of 2.35:1 in theatres. Sometime between the next year, however, and 1991 Disney changed the 'normal' ratio for their animated films. It could be because of a change in leadership in the company and a need to distance itself from past movie-making, it could be because of new animation techniques such as the CAPS system....but again this is all speculation.

What is known is that by the 1990s, Disney was matting their CAPS animated films to 1.85:1 ratio for theatrical release. With the advent of widescreen televisions and digital projection, though, I've lost track of how the latest Disney films are being presented in theatres. To summarize everything that GoofyStitch said in an earlier post, I'm making a list here for easy use to see what the verified aspect ratios are for the Disney Animated Features.


1. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs - 1.33:1
2. Pinocchio - 1.33:1
3. Fantasia - 1.33:1
4. Dumbo - 1.33:1
5. Bambi - 1.33:1
6. Saludos Amigos - 1.33:1
7. The Three Caballeros - 1.33:1
8. Make Mine Music - 1.33:1
9. Fun and Fancy Free - 1.33:1
10. Melody Time - 1.33:1
11. The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad - 1.33:1
12. Cinderella - 1.33:1
13. Peter Pan - 1.33:1
14. Lady and the Tramp - 2.55:1 (and) 1.33:1
15. Sleeping Beauty - 2.35:1
16. 101 Dalmatians - 1.33:1
17. The Sword in the Stone - ????
18. The Jungle Book - ????
19. The Aristocats - 1.75:1
20. Robin Hood - ????
21. The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh - ????
22. The Rescuers - 1.75:1
23. The Fox and the Hound - 1.75:1
24. The Black Cauldron - 2.35:1
25. The Great Mouse Detective - ????
26. Oliver & Company - ????
27. The Little Mermaid - ????
28. The Rescuers Down Under - ????
29. Beauty and the Beast - 1.85:1
30. Aladdin - 1.85:1
31. The Lion King - 1.85:1
32. Pocahontas - 1.85:1
33. The Hunchback of Notre Dame - 1.85:1
34. Hercules - 1.85:1
35. Mulan - 1.85:1
36. Tarzan - 1.85:1



As you can see, when it comes to anything other than fullscreen, Disney doesn't have a great track record for presenting their films on DVD or Blu Ray with the original theatrical aspect ratio. But that is for another thread

I hope this helps!!

[KubrickFan]

Wasn't Sleeping Beauty's problem that they started with an CinemaScope production (which would be in 2.55:1 at the beginning) but ended up shooting it in Technirama, which was a 70mm format with the ratio of 2.20:1? So they would cut quite a bit from the sides to get it to 2.20:1, and for standard CinemaScope showings (or perhaps only just for the home video releases) they would cut a bit from the top and bottom to make it a 2.35:1 release. Since it started out as a CinemaScope film, I think the full 2.55:1 ratio is correct. The same thing happened with Ben-Hur, actually.
And since The Rescuers Down Under is the first fully CAPS film, I think that has to be animated in 1.66:1 and shown in theaters in 1.85:1 too, like the rest of them.

[disneyfella]

Sleeping Beauty (1959) had several options for exhibiting theatres to choose from. This would allow more theatres to be able to show the film. It was not uncommon for studios those days, let alone the Walt Disney Studios, to create these options for theatres. Whichever option was chosen, the film was instructed to be shown at a ratio of 2.35:1...be it Cinemascope, or Technirama 70.

Technirama 70, was a 70mm process that literally doubled the size of the 35mm frame and thereby sharpened the image. It was basically Technicolor's version of the Cinemascope process because it also used an anamorphic lense to both film and project the picture. This process, however, created an image that was similar to the modified Cinemascope ratio of 2.35:1. Remember, the optical soundtrack has to be overlayed on the film.

The size of the film negative is irrelevant...that simply can enhance the clarity of the picture on exhibition as it is increased. It is how the film is put on that negative or matted for projection that can alter the aspect ratio.

I'm not as familiar with Ben Hur (1959), but as I understand it, that film also had several different options available for exhibition including a Super Technirama 70 process which allowed for a wide screen image at the ratio of 2.76:1.

When the Sleeping Beauty Blu Ray was released, there were a few Disney media outlets that tried to sell the public on the newly framed widescreen image as "never before seen". Disney was literally touting an invalid aspect ratio as a selling point! The 2.55:1 rato that they are so proud of is against Walt's aggressive instructions that the film must be projected at a ratio of 2.35:1.

But the Walt Disney Company has long left the mantra of "what would Walt do", and has apparently taken the slogan...how can we sell something to the public?

::steps down from the soap box::

Whoops. There I go again

[Disney Duster]

From what I had understood, Sleeping Beauty was animated in a ratio they thought it was going to be in.

Then, the new format for widescreen made them decide that they would have to cut the sides off, matte it, for most theaters.

So even though Walt originally intended it to be the ratio we got on Blu-ray, he had to change it to serve the theater standard, so he instructed them to matte it, even though originally he wanted it to be seen wider in theaters.

Also, isn't the original aspect ratio of Sleeping Beauty, that we got on the Blu-ray, the same as Lady and the Tramp's? Because Lady and the Tramp was made before the standard changed, as Sleeping Beauty was started before the standard changed?

[Wonderlicious]

Also, isn't the original aspect ratio of Sleeping Beauty, that we got on the Blu-ray, the same as Lady and the Tramp's? Because Lady and the Tramp was made before the standard changed, as Sleeping Beauty was started before the standard changed?

Yes. From what I recall, the Lady and the Tramp platinum edition was in 2:55:1, as was the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea DVD (also made in Cinemascope around the time when the wider aspect ratio was commonplace).

[KubrickFan]

I'm not as familiar with Ben Hur (1959), but as I understand it, that film also had several different options available for exhibition including a Super Technirama 70 process which allowed for a wide screen image at the ratio of 2.76:1.

Actually, the 2.76:1 ratio was never seen at the movie theaters (probably too wide). So it's kind of the same situation as with Sleeping Beauty

When the Sleeping Beauty Blu Ray was released, there were a few Disney media outlets that tried to sell the public on the newly framed widescreen image as "never before seen". Disney was literally touting an invalid aspect ratio as a selling point! The 2.55:1 rato that they are so proud of is against Walt's aggressive instructions that the film must be projected at a ratio of 2.35:1.

The CinemaScope ratio changed from 2.55:1 to 2.35:1 in 1955 because they added an optical mono track. So it's not really an 'intended' ratio versus another, but merely the changes that the industry made to make projecting a film easier and cheaper. So neither is right or wrong.