the fox and the hound ratio

[akhenaten]

i found some more proof that this film is actually wider on the sides. but as evident in the first few clips..the cels of the bear arent fully painted to the edges. the fullscreen version however provides more visual information top and bottom...ala jungle book. bonus clip includes behind the scenes of the black cauldron.

here's the link.hopefully someone will be diligent enuff to post comparison pics. the sample starts at 4:50 or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwq7iByU ... re=related

[REINIER]

Very interesting...

As always thanx for your findings akhenaten :wink

[drfsupercenter]

Has that movie ever been released in widescreen?

I thought it was open matte... but until we see an actual widescreen release, it's hard to tell. AFAIK, VHS, laserdisc, and DVD are all 4:3.

[Neal]

Well, it hasn't ever made sense how FatH was bookended by wide screen films but always released as fullscreen.

I hope some day we get the full picture, as it's one of my favorite DACs. *runs from angry mob soon to come tear me apart for liking this film*

[akhenaten]

i like FATH too neal.besides the fact that both me and the film r of the same age, its one of the more heartfelt disney films and a testament to the time n culture it was made. and since john lasseter worked on this film, i hope he'd champion a thorough restoration on it. and when it does come out on blu-ray...disney will market the EXPANDED NEVER BEFORE SEEN RATIO

[Escapay]

here's the link.hopefully someone will be diligent enuff to post comparison pics. the sample starts at 4:50 or so.

I tried as best to get approximate frames, which is hard to do given the source is a fuzzy image...





Also, I had these lying around...




Top is from "The Making of The Great Mouse Detective" and bottom is from the theatrically-matted DVD. Surprised no one's ever cried foul about it (AFAIK) before.

albert

[akhenaten]

Also, I had these lying around...




Top is from "The Making of The Great Mouse Detective" and bottom is from the theatrically-matted DVD. Surprised no one's ever cried foul about it (AFAIK) before.

albert

dangit escapay! u gave me another burden to fuss about in my life.

[disneyfella]

This further supports the notion that most of the "unknown" ratio animated classics from the 1960s thru the 1980s were probably animated in full frame ratio (1.33:1) and then matted when exhibited.

This means that, yes Virginia, Disney DID matte their animated films to create a widescreen presentation.

My guess is, given the recent Sleeping Beauty treatment, that we will be subjected to inferior open matte transfers on everything possible (with a cheap marketing ploy stating 'with expanded never before seen animation'), and no respect for framing or theatrical presentation will be given. These films will NOT be preserved, but rather defiled!

::sigh::

[blackcauldron85]

This further supports the notion that most of the "unknown" ratio animated classics from the 1960s thru the 1980s were probably animated in full frame ratio (1.33:1) and then matted when exhibited.

I kind of wish that I had kept my Gold Collection DVDs of Robin Hood and The Aristocats for this reason...

Thanks so much for posting the video link, akhenaten!!! That was really neat! I especially liked seeing the concept art for TBC!!!!!

[Jules]

Scaps, wait. Could this mean the current TFatH DVD is open-matte rather than pan and scan? Though I'd still prefer a widescreen version, open-matte is still eons better than pan and scan.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Scaps, wait. Could this mean the current TFatH DVD is open-matte rather than pan and scan? Though I'd still prefer a widescreen version, open-matte is still eons better than pan and scan.

Looks like that to me. I always thought it was stupid that 1 out of 44 would be released in the wrong ratio and now I see it wasn't.

As for Great Mouse Detective, I'm glad it's matted. I do think the 1992 VHS is actually pan and scan because I see more image on the DVD than I did the VHS. And if GMD is, then maybe Oliver and Company is too?

[akhenaten]

maybe all up to little mermaid is matted! bwahahaha amy did u watch the whole program? i mean the other parts of it?

[blackcauldron85]

amy did u watch the whole program? i mean the other parts of it?

I watched all of Part 5, and I think I have seen other parts of it a while ago, but today I only had time to watch for the 10 minutes...

[drfsupercenter]

I kind of wish that I had kept my Gold Collection DVDs of Robin Hood and The Aristocats for this reason...

That's exactly why I don't buy the new releases if they're tilt-and-scanned

It sure looks open matte to me... from those 3 pictures anyway. The good quality one on the bottom... isn't that from The Great Mouse Detective? (And it would make sense that that one was pan-and-scan because it was made in CAPS, and AFAIK all CAPS movies were 1.66:1 OAR)

--EDIT--

Woah. Now I get it. I was thinking the bottom picture had more on the sides because it was wider... when it's really the same on the sides. I wonder how many other CAPS films were open matte? I know movies like The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc. were 1.66:1 as their VHS releases were pan-and-scanned from that.

But that's weird.

[Mollyzkoubou]

Great Mouse Detective wasn't CAPS. Not until Rescuers Down Under 4 years later were they using CAPS, apart from a couple shots in Mermaid.

[AlwaysOAR]

This further supports the notion that most of the "unknown" ratio animated classics from the 1960s thru the 1980s were probably animated in full frame ratio (1.33:1) and then matted when exhibited.

This means that, yes Virginia, Disney DID matte their animated films to create a widescreen presentation.

My guess is, given the recent Sleeping Beauty treatment, that we will be subjected to inferior open matte transfers on everything possible (with a cheap marketing ploy stating 'with expanded never before seen animation'), and no respect for framing or theatrical presentation will be given. These films will NOT be preserved, but rather defiled!

::sigh::

I feel your pain, disneyfella. Let's hope on future Disney releases, we'll get the original theatrical ratio, along with the animated ratio, at the very least.

[David S.]

I kind of wish that I had kept my Gold Collection DVDs of Robin Hood and The Aristocats for this reason...

Yes, that's why I tracked down those OOP Gold discs, and the LE of Jungle Book as well. There is still hope if you want to get those back, though - I've seen them used in FYEs in the Orlando area. I haven't been to any in Orlando lately, but all 3 of these, especially the GCs, show up in FYEs used from time to time. I travel a lot, and try to look for used DVD stores when I'm on the road. I found the Aristocats Gold at an Orlando FYE (I think in Altamonte), Robin Hood GC in Cleveland, and Jungle Book LE in Kansas City. I have since seen all three in other FYEs.

I've had good luck finding OOP DACs; unfortunately the early wave OOP Treasures sets are another story, even without the tins.

[Neal]

Some of this is confusing to me. What does 'open matte' mean?

[David S.]

Some of this is confusing to me. What does 'open matte' mean?

In a nutshell, the ratio of standard film is about 1.37:1, or "fullscreen". This is also known as academy ratio and "open matte". Most of the 60's and 70's DACs are known to have been filmed in "open matte" "fullscreen". (Jungle Book, Dalmatians, Sword, Robin Hood, Aristocats, Pooh, etc)

Yet, they were often shown in widescreen in cinemas. The widescreen effect was created by "matting" the picture, which simply means the top and bottom is chopped off to create a widescreen effect.

Thus, the controversy, and longtime debates over how these films should be presented on DVD. Theatrical purists like Disneyfella and Always OAR prefer the matted versions, and people like myself and Drfsupercenter prefer the "open matte" fullscreen versions, because they actually show MORE of the picture.

BTW, does anyone know if there is any proof that The Rescuers was actually filmed in 1.66:1, or could that DVD have been matted, too?

[Neal]

To me, the OAR is the ratio it was animated in. Not what was in theaters. Whatever ratio it was on the drawing board when the original animators drew it is correct. NOTHING ELSE!