Meaningful content in the forums and more!

[2099net]

I saw K-Trek's "Has UD Lost its way" post, and I assumed it would be about the state of the forum, rather than the inclusion of Non-Disney discs.

However, being as it wasn't, I have decided to raise the issue here instead.

What has happening to the UD forum lately?

It is saddening when the forum seems to be filled with so much inane drivel about nothing. Various posters have attempted to start meaningful threads, but almost all quickly loose momentum and die. Ichabod has valiantly continued with his "Disney live action discussions" despite nothing by general apathy towards his posts from the vast majority of forum users, and both 'Bod and myself have attempted to stir up some reactions with our "Disney Debates" threads.

I could single out perhaps just over half a dozen other posters who constantly or regularly post meaningful, lengthy and thought out posts. I won't do so, because if I do I know I will forget somebody and that may result in offense.

From a purely personal point of view this poll both disappoints and angers me greatly:

Has Disney all but given up on DVD? a topic which should be close to the heart of everyone who visits a site which focuses on Disney DVDs. Yet it only gets 45 votes. 45. All you have to do is select an option and hit 'vote'. Only 45 people bothered to actually do this.

And yet threads about Princesses get upwards of 500 posts. We all know Disney employees read this site and its forums. There's a BVHE-Rep who occasionally posts. What message is this sending to Disney as a company. A thread about the increasinly poor quality of their DVD releases can't get more than 50 people to click their mouse button 3 times (one to open the thread, one to select their vote and the final to cast the vote) while a thread about The Little Mermaid III gets 855 individual posts.

Considering the a vocal opinion of posters on this forum is "Cheapquels Suck", is it any wonder Disney is making them when even on a discussion board where a significant number of posters detest all animated sequels, the thread-bare information we have on a sequel to a sequel generates so much excitement? While a thread about Disney's general disinterest in the DVD format isn't even a blimp on the radar? Of course they're going to continue to release sub-standard, dumbed down DVDs. Because a Disney DVD site has basically given them permission - its certainly done nothing to make them even think for just a single second about changing their policy. Even the 2 disc PotC: World's End release was half-filled with fluff (and most likely had content pulled without explaination).

Recently it was revealed that the 101 Dalmatians Platinum release is likely to include a game that includes over 1 hour of video footage. 1 hour. That's almost as long as the film. They could have put both matted and full-frame transfers on the 101 Dalmations release, but instead they opted to put that space to use on a game!

And if you ask me, we only have ourselves to blame, because the general disinterest in mature debate and opinions on this forum for the past year or so has done nothing but confirm Disney's low opinons on their target audience.

[BelleGirl]

Well, you have some good points there. But how are we supposed to fix the forum debates? I generally agree with you on the "cheapquels" (my policy is not to buy or watch them) but there are members that seem to be interested in and exited about such titles as "The Little mermaid 3" or "The Lion King 2 1/2". You can hardly stop them from feeling so.
I think there still is lot of intelligent debate going on.
Maybe you could start some new ones, apart from this? I'm willing to participate!

[2099net]

Well, you have some good points there. But how are we supposed to fix the forum debates? I generally agree with you on the "cheapquels" (my policy is not to buy or watch them) but there are members that seem to be interested in and exited about such titles as "The Little mermaid 3" or "The Lion King 2 1/2". You can hardly stop them from feeling so.

No I can't. I agree. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I constantly post silly little rumblings in my Doctor Who thread, which for the most part are ignored. It's because I'm a fan. And people are quite rightly fans of sequels, Disney Princesses etc. All are important properties, and its OK to discuss (and even obsess over) them. But the people who do so, should also look at the wider picture.

I think there still is lot of intelligent debate going on.
Maybe you could start some new ones, apart from this? I'm willing to participate!

Like I stated, I and a few others have tried to start up threads that would create more thoughtful responses. There comes a time where you have to question if it is worth it, when thread after thread falls flat.

How a slipcovers, or small differences on various pre-release disc cover artwork releases can generate more posts than a poll about the future of Disney DVDs, and how people feel about them I find amazing. Again, there's nothing wrong with wanting a slipcover, or pointing out covers use exisiting clip-art etc. but I'm pretty sure Disney noted there's over a hundred more times the interest in the packaging of their discs than the content on their discs.

How will the lack of interest of Ichabod's Live Action discussions ON A DISNEY FORUM convince Disney it may be worth releasing more catalog titles on DVD? Can you even name the last pre-1990 Live Action film released by Disney apart from in their Disney Movie Club?

BVHE-Rep who reads and occasionally posts on this forum is just going to report back to his superiors "there's almost no interest in old live action films" should he be asked.

Yes, I know Disney surveys far more than internet forums, but we're supposed to be Disney's biggest fans, and we seem to do nothing by confirm their pre-existing research and assumptions.

I know you weren't around when this PHP forum was first set-up, but so many of the previous posters have been driven away, or are in the process of being driven away (Loomis pretty much admitted to me he only considers the theme park forum worth reading anymore) is huge.

I am of course generalising, and I am not speaking about everybody or indeed even about you. But if you're willing to debate, look through Ichabod's Live Action discussions, our Disney debates (and I know you have posted on some of them) or even some of the press release threads, and talk about the actual contents announced, rather than simply the artwork and who should/should not be on the spine.

Or start your own threads.

[BrandonH]

Part of the problem, at least in my case, comes from Disney itself. I usually only visit the board when an anticipated new movie or DVD comes out. If Disney would release more catalog material, then there would be more to discuss than Princess products and direct-to-DVD movies.

That does stink about the hour of video footage in the 101D game. Let's hope Pinocchio is treated with more respect.

[Luke]

I heartily agree with the sentiments lamenting the quality of Disney DVDs. To quote a very recent post of mine, I think we'd all be happier "if Disney saw the DVD format as more than a way to promote Blu-ray, milk parents of young tots and tweens on overpriced compilations, and play hide-and-seek with DTV sequels."

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I've tried twice to make threads that I had hoped would last for a while but as usual they disappeared and whats weird is one is Princess thread, thought for sure that one would have stuck around

I avoid making threads for two reasons mainly

1) Scaps might pull a "You should have searched better" on me and I hate using search since it never works for me. Plus there's probably already a topic about what my thread would be about so there's no point making a copy

2) I just don't know what to make a thread about, considering the history of my threads being low on posts plus my taste in what to make a thread about may differ from other peoples.

I think thats one problem, some people here, Netty, Ichabod etc. you guys want big threads that last for a while and are meangingful and are worthwhile but yet there are people here who don't care as much and enjoy small talk type threads. I don't know for sure but thats what it looks like from where I am right now. I'll try making new threads but I hate posting every second time just to keep it alive

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

Part of the problem, at least in my case, comes from Disney itself. I usually only visit the board when an anticipated new movie or DVD comes out. If Disney would release more catalog material, then there would be more to discuss than Princess products and direct-to-DVD movies.

But Mr. Net was asking why exactly is Disney releasing complete trash like the Princess movie, DTV sequels and lousy Disney Channel sitcoms. And he believe the answer is that Disney executives visits this site and see freaks, fags and idiots' posts and see they'd rather posts entire posts that say nothing except say the top 10 ways they'd sleep with a Disney princess or discuss their favortie wedding dress. And they get an idea these people are in a majority all because the people who have interesting stuff to say aren't saying anything.

I must admit, I'm guilty of not posting anything interesting. I REALLY wanted to post something worthwild, in fact, Friday, I actually started to post something in the "Bring Back Eisner" thread that would look at him at both a possitive and negative. But I stoped as I got sidetracked, and since the discussion was pretty much dead anyway, I didn't see a point.

That's pretty much my UD experience of 2007. I've moved on. For every wonderful and through-out post/thread(and there have been several) there's always a freak, dumby, bore or democrat who posts worthless trash that isn't worth reading so a lot of times I don't read it. Thus even threads where I've really wanted to post opinions, I feel, "why bother?" All I ever do more is occasionally post a joke or post info on a movie I'm really looking forward too(Sweeney Todd, Natioanl Treasure: Book of Secrets, Indiana Jones: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull) You know, I can tell if this forums were as good as it was in 2003, these threads would be the most posted threads in its history, but clearly discussing these movies aren't as interesting as Ariel humpers posting the same one-liners about a Broadway show or DTV. I really have moved on. I've hung out at other forums which are currently a billion times better than this one(let alone living my, you know, personal life).

Why do I keep hanging around here? Well, I love Disney, I love DVDs. This site has great reviews, even non-Disney releated reviews are great and the main page is worth going to every day. And there are some great guys working on this site, I just wish their efforts were appreciated by smarter people who know how to talk good conversations.

IMO, I think for 2008, this forums needs to change or just close altogether and keep this site a main page. It just has gotten tired and pointless. Maybe if we close it for 2-3 months, and open it back up, people will find worthwild things to say and people will actually realize how stupid they're being and change, and start a new. Or maybe completely redesign the forum. Either way, something to make it worhwild again. I just hope this isn't how UD ends.

It's not too unlike Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End.

"The world(UD) use to be a bigger place."

"The world's the same mate, there's just less(Disney fans) in it."

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

Part of the problem, at least in my case, comes from Disney itself. I usually only visit the board when an anticipated new movie or DVD comes out. If Disney would release more catalog material, then there would be more to discuss than Princess products and direct-to-DVD movies.

But Mr. Net was asking why exactly is Disney releasing complete trash like the Princess movie, DTV sequels and lousy Disney Channel sitcoms. And he believe the answer is that Disney executives visits this site and see freaks, fags and idiots' posts and see they'd rather posts entire posts that say nothing except say the top 10 ways they'd sleep with a Disney princess or discuss their favortie wedding dress. And they get an idea these people are in a majority all because the people who have interesting stuff to say aren't saying anything.

I must admit, I'm guilty of not posting anything interesting. I REALLY wanted to post something worthwild, in fact, Friday, I actually started to post something in the "Bring Back Eisner" thread that would look at him at both a possitive and negative. But I stoped as I got sidetracked, and since the discussion was pretty much dead anyway, I didn't see a point.

That's pretty much my UD experience of 2007. I've moved on. For every wonderful and through-out post/thread(and there have been several) there's always a freak, dumby, bore or democrat who posts worthless trash that isn't worth reading so a lot of times I don't read it. Thus even threads where I've really wanted to post opinions, I feel, "why bother?" All I ever do more is occasionally post a joke or post info on a movie I'm really looking forward too(Sweeney Todd, Natioanl Treasure: Book of Secrets, Indiana Jones: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull) You know, I can tell if this forums were as good as it was in 2003, these threads would be the most posted threads in its history, but clearly discussing these movies aren't as interesting as Ariel humpers posting the same one-liners about a Broadway show or DTV. I really have moved on. I've hung out at other forums which are currently a billion times better than this one(let alone living my, you know, personal life).

Why do I keep hanging around here? Well, I love Disney, I love DVDs. This site has great reviews, even non-Disney releated reviews are great and the main page is worth going to every day. And there are some great guys working on this site, I just wish their efforts were appreciated by smarter people who know how to talk good conversations.

IMO, I think for 2008, this forums needs to change or just close altogether and keep this site a main page. It just has gotten tired and pointless. Maybe if we close it for 2-3 months, and open it back up, people will find worthwild things to say and people will actually realize how stupid they're being and change, and start a new. Or maybe completely redesign the forum. Either way, something to make it worhwild again. I just hope this isn't how UD ends.

It's not too unlike Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End.

"The world(UD) use to be a bigger place."

"The world's the same mate, there's just less(Disney fans) in it."

[Luke]

And he believe the answer is that Disney executives visits this site and see freaks, f*** and idiots' posts and see they'd rather posts entire posts that say nothing except say the top 10 ways they'd sleep with a Disney princess or discuss their favortie wedding dress.

While I can sympathize with your views, there's absolutely no reason to reduce to name-calling, especially using the highly offensive slur. That word was recently edited out of one of your posts, but I guess the message needs to be relayed to you: do not use hate speech. Though you're not singling out any of your fellow forum members, this is a small enough place for such attacks to be considered personal, not to mention harsh and unnecessary. Your arguments will be taken more seriously if you avoid such attacks. Consider this a warning; if you continue to make posts like this, I'll be forced to suspend you, which may not sound like much a punishment in your reduced state, but is something you and I can probably agree that we'd both like to avoid.

Thank you for your attention to this matter and for your appreciated praise towards the site's content.

[Mushu]

I’ll start off by saying that I have been coming to this forum for almost three years now and have become very attached to it. I don’t post much. Not because of the quality of the threads, but because I’m naturally a shy person (or at least I used to be). With that said, the current posting quality is what this post is about.

Ultimate Disney was the first real internet forum that I got an account for. It used to be the first site that I would go to when I turned on my computer. I would spend a long time (Like hours long…ya, I had no life…I no) on this website every day because of the atmosphere here. Well, that and all of the things that I learned here. I learned things not by posting, but by reading…reading the quality posts. Now, I still visit UD almost every day, but not right when I turn on my computer, and definitely not for hours. I’d love to make this my favorite place to visit on the web again. But now, like other people have stated, the quality of posting has taken a serious dive lately. I miss being able to come home from school, turn on my computer, and read threads like Great Mouse Detective 2: The Hilarious Adventures of Teede* Now that’s what I call quality.

Today, I’m still always exited to read threads like, http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... sc&start=2. Unfortunately after the first or second post, I start seeing things like:

Poster 1: “Wait, is Eisner the one with the blue shirt and no pants?”
Poster 2: “No, you are talking about Donald Duck. Eisner is the bear that loves honey.”
Poster 1: “That’s Pooh!”
Poster 2: “Don’t call me names!”
Poster 1: “I didn’t. I meant that you just described Winnie the Pooh! lol”
Poster 2: “Oh, lolz”**

And that’ll be the last post before the thread hits page two in the forum 24 hours later. I guess that wouldn’t be too bad. You know, if it was getting bumped off the page so other worthy threads could be brought up. But when threads like http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=21655 come up instead, well it sort of hurts.

I don’t mean to pick on the thread starter or the rest of the people in the thread, but this is what I’m talking about. The thread starter went to Wikipedia, highlighted a list, clicked copy, and then clicked paste in a brand new thread here. Now, besides the fact that it would be pretty hard to get a good discussion going about 23 movies in one thread, unless I haven’t done sufficient research, at least three of the movies don’t exist. I know that he put a disclaimer on the bottom of the page, but he isn’t the first person to do something like this. Most of the posts following the original don’t help much either (Although I did love the post about the Search for Mickey Mouse). I know that a bunch of the people posting in this thread have 2007 join dates so I’m not really going to blame them for not knowing about many of the movies posted.

But this is another reason why the quality of many threads have declined. Lately whenever I look at posts, I mostly see Join Date: *Insert month here*, 2007. As I just said, since most new posters don’t really no the ropes, it’s not there fault. But when the old quality posters stop posting, and all we get are mostly new posters, the quality is bound to drop. I guess I might be able to start posting more to try and help out (At least over the next couple of weeks), but if I don’t have anything worthy to say, then I don’t really see a point in posting. I’m not going to make any promises, but I’ll try to do my best to add to the community as much as I can.

Sorry for ranting so much. I just needed to write an essay for my English class and I decided to share it with all of you. Thanks for reading!

*Not an actual thread title, but if you have been around here for awhile, you probably understand what I mean.
**Not actually how the thread went, and for the most part, the thread did have one of the better discussions recently, at least in my opinion.

[Prudence]

Poster 1: “Wait, is Eisner the one with the blue shirt and no pants?”
Poster 2: “No, you are talking about Donald Duck. Eisner is the bear that loves honey.”
Poster 1: “That’s Pooh!”
Poster 2: “Don’t call me names!”
Poster 1: “I didn’t. I meant that you just described Winnie the Pooh! lol”
Poster 2: “Oh, lolz”

I know you don't want a useless reply like this, but you are so hilariously right. If I knew of a miracle cure for Forumitis, I would send it to every member here.

[Jules]

Everything seems to be spinning into a vicious circle. One thing leads to another, after all. Think of it as dominoes. The problem is certainly not easy to solve. In fact, I 'm not even sure what the hell I'm going to say; type. So how do you solve our forum problem!? You can't stop people from registering and posting. You can't take a look at their qualifications beforehand and determine whether they at least occassionally use their brain cells. Timon/Pumbaa fan suggested closing the forum down. It feels like both a good and bad idea. Depriving oneself of the thing loved does increase appreciation. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, as they say. And I think a lot of us do take the forums for granted. However, shuttering down the forums for a brief period is unthinkable. The solution, thus, rests on us alone. Perhaps we must start a new culture and try to spread it and "teach" it to newcomers.

I personally feel rather guilty myself at the quality of my posts. I'm not posting much (has anyone noticed?), and when I do, the post normally consists of just a line or two. I am highly interested in discussion, yet I've found myself to lurk in the best threads. Talk about a paradox. I've read through most of the Disney Debates threads and re-enter them every time I log in. Strangely, however, I never find anything to say. I feel lazy. I'm interested in the the subject, but I no longer seem interested in participating.

I don't know what it could be. I like to call it forum nausea.

[Disney Duster]

I'd say this whole topic is all based on opinion. I suppose the measure of words per post could be some kind of indication whether something is "quality" or not, but what if a lot of words are used just to describe whether or not Sebastian's eyes are white or yellow? Like I said, it really comes down to opinion.

For instance, Timon/Pumbaa fan thinks threads about new movies are more important than threads about a movie turned into a broadway show and direct-to-video sequels. However, two of the movies he mentioned wanting threads for are sequels, and one is a movie adaptation of a broadway show. Who's to judge whether the DTV's are less worthy than the film sequels if some people love the DTV's and most movie sequels are generally thought to suck anyway? Who's to judge if making an accalimed horror stage musical into a film is better than making an acclaimed animated film into a stage musical? And then there's the fact, not opinion, that the Disney DTV's and Disney broadway shows fit more into a forum for all things Disney.

It goes further. Yes, I'm going to say that I still think it's opinion as to whether or not a thread about a new movie trailer or a thread about your favorite character is worth more than the other. And I even think it's opinion to think a post that says, "The reason this film will revitalize Disney is because it harks back to the traditions and favored techniques of the most revered classics while trying new ideas and exploring new ways to move the audience" is any better than a post that says, "The reason I like this dress better is because the colors don't clash!" Really, who is to judge which one is better, who can says who's interest matters more? Or even who's way of talking matters more (as long as they try to say more than one-word answers or provide reasons for what they say)?

And if all you try to say that you are more "right" and we should do something because so many on here think something needs to be done, it's not even the majority opinion that UD's forum is losing quality. Most people on here don't have a problem with the creation of threads, they just leave them alone if they don't like them.

Also remember, there are a lot of people on here with completely different educations, liks, dislikes, and, yes, intelligences, than you. Some people might not be capable of expressing themselves or getting out their thoughts, or understanding thoughts other people express. Their limited attention spans, grammar, vocabulary, and sheer knowledge may prevent them from being able to have long or in-depth discussions. But should they be kept from this forum? NO. Remember that Disney is often considered kid's stuff, perhaps there are a lot of kids on here or people who think like kids that wonder what is beyond talking about how beautiful Ariel is?

One other thing is, if so many of you smartypants are complaining there isn't enough to talk about, fine, but instead of letting the forum be dormant and only get a new thread for a new film someone's interested in once in a while, why not let us who love talking about what we're interested in, old classics or new DTVs, keep the forum alive and kicking with our excited posts in these lagging times for Disney's quality output?

Luke, I'm a little disapointed you didn't think "freaks" was bad either, and that goes for "idiot" and "dumby" (I'm guessing he meant dummy?), unless you said all his negative names were unwelcome here and I didn't catch that. In which case, I'm sorry.

[blackcauldron85]

As for me, I've been on UD a little less lately, just because I've been tired & busy. I'm still in the process of reading new posts in certain threads and getting caught up.

My two cents is that a few threads that I'm interested in have had some continual posts in them that make me not want to bother going through those posts to get to the posts I'm more interested in reading. What I'm trying to say is that there has been some arguing/fighting/disagreeing (all of which is fine) bombarding big chunks of or whole pages in a thread, and the people making those posts absolutely have a right to, but sometimes it makes me lose patience and just give up reading the thread.

But, we all do have a right to post here and share our opinions, even if those opinions are the minority.

Also, sometimes I just don't have anything too intelligent to say, so I just don't. For example, in the Ashlee Simpson thread- I just watched a new music video- I liked it, but the only thing I can think of to write is, "I liked the video." That's not adding to the discussion at all (I mean, it *could*), so I probably just won't post anything until someone writes something that inspires me to write an intelligent response.

[Escapay]

What I am more concerned about is the conversational chitchat that takes place in some of the same 10 threads on GD, that they're almost always on the first page, and have reached a point where I don't bother checking them anymore. And this comes at the expense of new topics being bumped down and down until they reach second-or-third-page oblivion.

I mean, I started a thread about the UD interview with Tony Baxter, and aside from 11 votes and 3 other people posting, it's already fallen to the second page. I thought that a thread about the interview would garner a larger amount of replies and even lead wayward posters to the mythical main page. Alas, it's been forgotten about as quickly as last week's wardrobe selection.

Now, I'm not saying that I expected a lot of people to read it and turn it into a 5-page discussion about how interesting the interview was and what they thought of Baxter's answers. But with such a high amount of posts for stuff about the Treasures, and the interview being about one of the Treasures sets (in a way), I was surprised at how little replies it got.
Also, I'm not really enjoying some of the general attitudes among UDers. There's several which I'll point out, but not name names:

The "I Don't Have Much To Offer, But I Wanna Say Something" Mentality - I can't fault people for this because it's true, sometimes we don't have anything to offer, but we want our opinion to be known. It's just that this eventually turns into conversational chitchat that re-iterates the same weak original statement, and we'll end up with multi-page discussions that is probably 45% relevant discussion and 55% chitchat that doesn't really forward the discussion. I guess what I really want is for people to explain why they offer what they offer. Just saying, "I don't like (insert a Disney subject, any subject)" really does nothing beyond saying "I don't like (insert a Disney subject, any subject)". Where are your reasons? Where are your reactions to other people's thoughts on the subject? I can understand if people feel they really don't want to or can't provide more beyond one-line posts, but we're really seeing far too much of it than UD is accustomed to, and it's making forum reading less enjoyable. I waded through about two pages of the 101 Dalmatians PE thread and aside from a few posts regarding the cover art or thoughts on the bonuses, it was all essentially fluff repeated over and over again.

The "You're Either With Us Or Against Us" Mentality - all too often I stumble across a thread filled with praisers and glazed-faced worshipers of (insert a Disney subject, any subject). But when one or two people post an opinion that doesn't agree or follow the majority's opinion, they're immediately attacked and ostracized for even thinking of saying something that deviates from "I love (this or that)".

The "I'll Post Against The Grain To Annoy Others" Mentality - in short, people who purposely go out of their way to make it known that they're against or highly critical of (insert a Disney subject, any subject), that it can be sometimes very nasty to read what they have to say about the subject. Whether or not their opinion is actually what they believe, or if they're posting it to rile people up, it doesn't matter to me. It creates a more hostile atmosphere that I've never enjoyed on UD.

The "I Think I Know More Than You So Shut Up" Mentality - not quite common, and thankfully not a big problem, but on occasion, I'll read a topic and a poster will attempt to sound like they're a walking Disney encyclopedia, and preach misinformation as if it were fact. At times, there is a degree of superiority in their posts, as if the dribble they have to respond to is the simple thoughts of a casual Disney fan. The truth is, it is far more likely that nobody on the forums knows more about Disney than Dave Smith, and as far as I know, he's never had this attitude towards anyone, so nobody should ever even try and act like they're some all-encompassing Disney encyclopedia. It's fine if they offer correct and accurate information for the benefit of a misinformed poster, but not if it has to come in a patronizing "I know this, you didn't, haha!" way.

The "My Opinion Is Right, Anyone Else's Is Wrong" Mentality - 'nuff said. It's just annoying when I read posts by people who think their thoughts on such-and-such are the only ones that matter, and anything else is just mindless ramblings of love or hate by the not-so-well-informed.

Of course, there are several more that come to mind, and I'm guilty of always trying to shill my "The Lion King is horrible!" and "Slipcovers are tree-killer condoms!" opinions, but to my knowledge, I never go to the depths and lows that some posters do to get a strong reaction to their posts. And if I do, then I'm heartily sorry.

It's just reached the point where coming to UD is fun, but not as fun as it used to be. At least for me.

There will always be threads that I find worthwhile (as Duster said, it's all based on opinion), but they're getting to be fewer and far between. And on most occasions, it starts off interesting before degenerating into the conversational chitchat that I try and avoid. We all have the capacity to share our thoughts and opinions in more "refined" ways than conversational chitchat. It's just that some of us don't seen the point to it, while others strongly advocate it.

Also, I'm upset that people still don't understand the fairly-easy search option. Or that they're not willing to experiment with it. Or that they know fully well how to search, but they choose to start a new thread anyway because they're too impatient to bump up an old thread. And I'm upset that some people choose to cite me as the reason they don't start new threads (because they don't want me to chime in with "you should have searched better!" and links for old threads). Also, I really really hate it when people will start a new thread with "I did a search, but couldn't find a similar topic, don't hurt me, Escapay!". I'm not gonna give them a slap on the wrist or a spank on their bottom! (unless you want your bottom spanked...) It really hurts when I do tracking for older threads and the original poster either doesn't acknowledge it, or they do so in an "OH MY GOD, I DIDN'T KNOW! FORGIVE ME, SEARCH NAZI, FORGIVE ME!" kind of tone. I do my tracking for the benefit of bring up older discussions that can be of use to newer posters. But it seems people take my tracking as a subtle way of saying, "Geez, you guys still don't know how to search? You're pathetic!" If it bothers them so much, maybe I shouldn't track anymore. Let someone else worry about finding the past ten threads about "Doctor Gulley and the Dalmatians of Doom" to merge with the new one.

Scapsta

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

For instance, Timon/Pumbaa fan thinks threads about new movies are more important than threads about a movie turned into a broadway show and direct-to-video sequels. However, two of the movies he mentioned wanting threads for are sequels, and one is a movie adaptation of a broadway show. Who's to judge whether the DTV's are less worthy than the film sequels if some people love the DTV's and most movie sequels are generally thought to suck anyway? Who's to judge if making an accalimed horror stage musical into a film is better than making an acclaimed animated film into a stage musical? And then there's the fact, not opinion, that the Disney DTV's and Disney broadway shows fit more into a forum for all things Disney.

Well, I never said that completely. I wasn't talking about threads about DTVs and Broadway shows generally, I was talking about these threads specifically. Even you have to admit, people post in these threads as if they're the only film/Broadway show that exists it's quite sad. It's one thing if people had worthy discussions, but the reason threads get anywhere near the amount of attention is that fools post one-liners that aren't funny/helpful/interesting/worth wasting bandwidth.

Now as for the threads I suggested, well, compare my NEW National Treasure trailer thread to this Enchanted thread. Mine couldn't get anywhere near a 2nd page while Enchanted got a flappin' 61 pages. That is just sad, not just because I believe National Treasure is really deserves the 61 pages and Enchanted deserves the National Treasure thread's fate(although I certainly do believe that), but because a bunch of crazy freaks posted in the Enchanted who offered nothing worth reading. I believe it was in this thread there were like what 6 pages discussing which Disney characters were gay. And half of the posts are nothing more but, "OMG 1 more waek til 2D ANIMTIAN BAKCS! !"

And of course, National Treasure is VERY worthy of discussing. I can understand Sweeney Todd not being a very discussable subject as it's a love it or hate it show, and yeah Indy 4 isn't Disney(but it's presence IS at the Disney parks, and I believe ABC has rights to show the films and other Lucasfilm productions proving Disney and Lucasfilm share most of the same fanbase) but National Treasure is one of Disney's biggest successes in the decade so far which deserves every bit(and imo, much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much more deserving) of attention and posts as Enchanted. Sure, perhaps Enchanted has dolls which people can discuss or has award buzz which films like National Treasure usually get completely shafted, but that in no way makes Enchanted more worthy of discussion. But National Treasure, in addition to the teaser shown with Pirates III and the trailer in the thread I made, had a third trailer released and a whole scene released, not ONE member here has made notice of. Also, Disney.com has a HUGE giveaway contest which you can win $100,000 and a Merchadise, Disney claiming to be the "World's Biggest Treasure Hunt"(which it could very well be). NO DISCUSSION FOR THAT. Even despite the fact National Treasure is clearly the more anticipated film than Enchanted for the general public who aren't Disney fans, as proven by the fact Disney took out the short that was going to be shown in front of Enchanted and put in front of NT, it's still not enough to make people discuss NT. Instead, people go, "I didn't sse teh Goofy short, butte OMG!!!! DiZNEY IS BACK! FINALLY MAKKING PRINCESS FILMS !"

So even though the general public and every other forum out there is anticipating National Treasure more than Enchanted, the freaks here(which are sadly currently a majority on this forum) are still Enchanted as if it's their fiancee. I know your a fan of the princess films, as don't worry, my insulting posts aren't targeted against you as you're one of the few here who actually provide interesting discussion, but even you have to admit, the IQ numbers on this site here aren't exactly showing to be very high, especially compared to other forums.

It goes further. Yes, I'm going to say that I still think it's opinion as to whether or not a thread about a new movie trailer or a thread about your favorite character is worth more than the other.

Well, as I somewhat said above, I wouldn't have that big a problem had people actually has intelligent conversations about various Princess related items, like discuss the quality of Enchanted, provide WHY they liked/didn't like it, same for the TLM show and DTV, but obviously freaks here care more about being extremely (unintentionally)scary than actually discussing Disney with the world.

Also, I'm not really enjoying some of the general attitudes among UDers. There's several which I'll point out, but not name names:

The "I Don't Have Much To Offer, But I Wanna Say Something" Mentality

As I've stated before, I find myself in that category, because anytime I feel I put effort in a post(probably this one included) people won't read it and just ignore it, thus my absence.

The "You're Either With Us Or Against Us" Mentality

Agreed. I've always wished people could discuss opinions respectively here, which recently is being too much. But I find it mostly with the non-Disney threads. One word: Madonna.

The "I'll Post Against The Grain To Annoy Others" Mentality

I have a nasty feeling I fall in this category, and it's true. But for the most part, I try to do it in a wise-ass personal instead of a mocking tone(at least that's my goal).

But still, if people here provided worthy discussions. I know this isn't a perfect world, but this forum DOES need help.

The "I Think I Know More Than You So Shut Up" Mentality

C'mon Escapay, you have to admit you can't help but wonder how much you know when you read the posts of the Ariel humpers!

The "My Opinion Is Right, Anyone Else's Is Wrong" Mentality

Agreed. One word: Lazario.

It's just reached the point where coming to UD is fun, but not as fun as it used to be. At least for me.

Pretty much sums up what I feel. Although, fun is such a small portion of the site currently, that it's almost non-existant. If things don't change in 2008, I will never come to this site ever again(except the main page of course).

Life's too short and significant to waste time on this site and repeating your upset tone. Especially with all the other forums out there.

[Prudence]

I feel good now, although I know my replies to this specific thread are putting me in category one.

[blackcauldron85]

I was thinking, in regards to this topic, that making the site a paid site might be the only way to reduce the lack of quality posts...at least they probably wouldn't get any worse. But then some people who would make quality posts may never sign up, since they'd have to pay.

It's not just the newer members who make less-than-satisfying posts. Sometimes we just roll our eyes to certain members' posts, just knowing that they always post that way, but sometimes certain members' posts are irrelevant. But, I think that all of us occassionally will post a comment that doesn't necessarily help the conversation out. I'm torn, since I know that everyone does have a right to be here, but a lot of us are frustrated right now...

Yeah, I'm probably just ranting now, but hopefully there was at least a little quality in this post....

[Disney Duster]

Here we go, another long post from me!

Also, sometimes I just don't have anything too intelligent to say, so I just don't. For example, in the Ashlee Simpson thread- I just watched a new music video- I liked it, but the only thing I can think of to write is, "I liked the video." That's not adding to the discussion at all (I mean, it *could*), so I probably just won't post anything until someone writes something that inspires me to write an intelligent response.

Don't cut yourself short, really, even just giving an opinion on something is intelligent. I'd say giving your opinion alone helps a topic because it shows how many people like or don't like something, or how much you like or don't like something, which reflects the appeal of whatever people are discussing and could lead to someone counting you among the list of fans to help them prove some argument like, "It must be good if so many people like it!" Anyway, yea, don't worry, your posts are intelligent, in my opinion, because even that is opinion.

Escapay NO QUOTE FOR YOU! Because once again your post is too long and shows just how great a poster you are. I admittedly didn't read the whole James Baxter review because there were questions asked about things that interested me, and questions asked about things that didn't. Perhaps that's an indication of the real "problem" at UD, (THIS GOES TO EVERYONE) there's so many fans of one thing and hardly any fans of something else. For instance, the fans of Disney animation to fans of Disney live-action ratio is certainly off balance, and I'm glad for it because my love for Disney lies with how great their animation is over how entertaining their movies are in general (though I could say their animation is what entertains me). That's just one example. Anyway, sorry about the review, maybe I should've read the whole thing and then made a reply, but I have limited time on the computer, so I only want to do things that really interest me. It's also hard to have an opinion or anything good to say about things you don't have a passion for. When you're apathetic, you're apathetic. And I'm sure other people, if they don't have limited computer time, just don't have enough time in the day to pay attention to things they don't care the most about.

Even you have to admit, people post in these threads as if they're the only film/Broadway show that exists it's quite sad. It's one thing if people had worthy discussions, but the reason threads get anywhere near the amount of attention is that fools post one-liners that aren't funny/helpful/interesting/worth wasting bandwidth.

Well, SpringHeelJack and a few others mention other Broadway shows, but I could see how,on a Disney forum, maybe there are fans of Disney movies that don't know about other shows because they don't have an avid interest in theater, but they would love to see a show based on their favorite Disney movie. I won't look through the whole thread to decide which one-liners don't contribute anything, but when someone posts a new picture of a costume it would certainly matter if someone said, "He doesn't even look like a crab!" because, well, you can see how that's very important, especially since it indicates how well the whole show will do (the NYC critics love to rip shows apart and will use every flaw to bring it down).

That is just sad, not just because I believe National Treasure is really deserves the 61 pages and Enchanted deserves the National Treasure thread's fate(although I certainly do believe that), but because a bunch of crazy freaks posted in the Enchanted who offered nothing worth reading. I believe it was in this thread there were like what 6 pages discussing which Disney characters were gay. And half of the posts are nothing more but, "OMG 1 more waek til 2D ANIMTIAN BAKCS! !"

Well, once again, I think the problem here is that more people have an interest in one thing and less of an interest in another, and unless you honestly think people should post about something they don't care about, it just sucks for you and is too bad. I'm sorry and I think it should be more balanced than that, but it is what it is and maybe you need to recruit people you know to UD or ask people from other forums who like what you like to join. Anyway, I believe that "gay Disney character discussion" was only 2 or 3 pages, but that's what my memory says (I'm not looking through that whole thread). As for 2D animation coming back, I think that alone is more important than a sequel to a movie that made it big, because I think the Disney company is more about animation. And of course, an attempt to bring back 2D in a world that favors CGI (and is cheaper, and they actually wanted to use CGI at first) is more of a bold, brave step than cashing in on a movie that did well with a sequel (even though their's talk of an Enchanted sequel, but I'm talking about the original first film, here).

National Treasure is one of Disney's biggest successes in the decade so far which deserves every bit(and imo, much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much much more deserving) of attention and posts as Enchanted. Sure, perhaps Enchanted has dolls which people can discuss or has award buzz which films like National Treasure usually get completely shafted, but that in no way makes Enchanted more worthy of discussion.

Well, the dolls don't make it more worthy of discussion, but I'd say award buzz, the return of 2D animation, and the fact that the film is successful when it uses Disney staples and archetypes (meaning people love traditional Disney and the company can make successful movies in the Disney tradition and in the vein of what Walt made) does make it more worthy, or if worthy is too strong, important, than just a movie that was successful, because Enchanted was successful but had all those other plusses, so Enchanted has more worth and importance. Of couse, National Treasure is still important, and should have gotten more discussion (if not for actually liking the first film or wanting another one, at least for the fact it's a successful Disney film's sequel).

Even despite the fact National Treasure is clearly the more anticipated film than Enchanted for the general public who aren't Disney fans, as proven by the fact Disney took out the short that was going to be shown in front of Enchanted and put in front of NT, it's still not enough to make people discuss NT. Instead, people go, "I didn't sse teh Goofy short, butte OMG!!!! DiZNEY IS BACK! FINALLY MAKKING PRINCESS FILMS !"

Um, the short could have been postponed because it's 2D animation and it takes a long time, especially when you have to start 2D all over again because you got rid of all the 2D stuff, like animation desks. It is rather strange that Goofy, which is so much traditional Disney, was not paired with a film that had so much to do with Disney princesses, which is also traditional Disney (especially since it had traditional animation). Do you see how it doesn't make sense to put something so appealing for Disney fans in front of something that is only appealing enough for the general public, and by the looks of this site, less appealing to Disney fans than the general public? I think a traditional Disney character in traditional animation makes more sense when paired with a film featuring characters based on past traditional Disney characters in traditional animation. So I would reason the decision to put it in front of Treasure was because it wasn't finished in time for Enchanted or Disney wants to slowy cull traditional animation and traditional Disney into the movies. After all, Enchanted wasn't completely animated, and so it's the perfect test to see if audiences will embrace 2D animation again. And they did. But now Goofy's short is in front of a live-action movie that is less Disneylike and appeals more to action/adventure/mystery lovers than just Disney lovers, as further testing.

As for the "finally making princess films" bit, I know me and a lot of other princess fans are actually not enthused at Disney having 3 princess films in the pipeline (well, Enchanted's done, only 2 left now), because it is too much and suggests Disney thinks princess films will always be a hit and will bring them "back". I can't speak for everyone, but the big reasons I don't want it to happen are because the films could have poor quality if they just rely on what they "know" works, and I don't really want so much of the same thing.

I know your a fan of the princess films, as don't worry, my insulting posts aren't targeted against you as you're one of the few here who actually provide interesting discussion, but even you have to admit, the IQ numbers on this site here aren't exactly showing to be very high, especially compared to other forums.

Thank you! Obviously the same goes for you. But I wish you would stop insulting and calling people freaks unless it's out of fun or against someone who has equal disdain for you and you know they can take the insults.

Well, as I somewhat said above, I wouldn't have that big a problem had people actually has intelligent conversations about various Princess related items, like discuss the quality of Enchanted, provide WHY they liked/didn't like it, same for the TLM show and DTV, but obviously freaks here care more about being extremely (unintentionally)scary than actually discussing Disney with the world.

Well, then if you would have so much less of a problem you wouldn't complain that people like something more than you do, great. I still don't think something needs to be done about the way people are posting unless we had a rule about one line posts, but even that is extreme because sometimes we need one line posts, like this one:

C'mon Escapay, you have to admit you can't help but wonder how much you know when you read the posts of the Ariel humpers!

See, you said something funny and you were trying to have some fun with a friend. It has intelligence (well I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but I'm sure Escapay will), worth, and importance. There really does need to be room for chit-chat and an ability to say something even if we don't have that much to say!

That's also brings me to something else (THIS GOES TO EVERYONE): Remember that the length of a post doesn't equate with the quality or substance of a post. I would rather read short, concise posts that can get across all the points and ideas in as few words as possible, because I honestly don't like reading long things even when it's about something I'm very interested in, though it depends on what is being written.

Blackcauldron85, I know you're just trying to give ideas and help, but I hope we never have to resort to that. I honestly don't want this forum to become elitist or have some kind of "no ____ allowed" clubhouse mentality. And THANK YOU for pointing out we all are quilty of what we're complaining about at times, which is why i think it should be allowed, even if people do it more often than others.

I suppose we could just do some warning, some emphasis in guidelines, and some administrators (or people who help them like Escapay) could advise people on it here and there. I remember Luke encouraging people to speak more on movies they just watched in one thread.

Yeah, I'm probably just ranting now, but hopefully there was at least a little quality in this post....

Aw! Oh, of course it hadlots of quality! I think this is evidence that some people just won't know how to make a "quality post" or have thoughts that could make one. Like I said, it's a Disne forum, and Disney is entertainment for everyone, young and old, and perhaps simpler people (or perhaps, though I don't know if the term is fair, simple-minded) will not understand why their posts are too simple.

Oh, and Amy, if you think I'm calling you simple OMG NO, that is not the case at all.

[Escapay]

Well, I never said that completely. I wasn't talking about threads about DTVs and Broadway shows generally, I was talking about these threads specifically. Even you have to admit, people post in these threads as if they're the only film/Broadway show that exists it's quite sad.

That's one of my main gripes with fandom in general. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I hate that if someone discovers a show/movie/artist/whatever, and really only sticks to that one snow/movie/artist/whatever, that they suddenly think they're the foremost authority on the entire medium/genre. You have no idea how many people I've met who say, "I'm a Broadway fan, I saw Wicked!" As if the past 80+ years of Broadway plays and musicals are suddenly old hat to them and they know every little facet, every little detail, but they don't need to actually talk about anything except for Wicked.

I hardly think of myself as a Broadway "fan". I don't mean I hate it, just that I haven't been exposed to enough of it to consider myself a fan of the medium. But I do try and make myself aware of more than just the flavor-of-the-week musical that happens to be "in". However, sometimes I read posts by people who think Broadway began and ended with Phantom of the Opera, Rent, and Wicked. It's almost insulting that they have no idea what Porgy & Bess is, or how big it was in its heydey.

The "You're Either With Us Or Against Us" Mentality

Agreed. I've always wished people could discuss opinions respectively here, which recently is being too much. But I find it mostly with the non-Disney threads. One word: Madonna.

The "My Opinion Is Right, Anyone Else's Is Wrong" Mentality

Agreed. One word: Lazario.

I was hoping to avoid naming names. I won't acknowledge that the ones you alluded to were right or wrong, everything in life really falls into a gray area, even in "you're with us or against us" mentalities.

C'mon Escapay, you have to admit you can't help but wonder how much you know when you read the posts of the Ariel humpers!

See, you said something funny and you were trying to have some fun with a friend. It has intelligence (well I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but I'm sure Escapay will), worth, and importance. There really does need to be room for chit-chat and an ability to say something even if we don't have that much to say!

I'm not really sure what Justin was alluding to aside from our mutual disinterest in a certain tiny fishgirl and the rabid fanaticism that follows it. But yeah, we joke about it all the time, or at least we would if Justin posted more often.

Escapay NO QUOTE FOR YOU! Because once again your post is too long and shows just how great a poster you are. I admittedly didn't read the whole James Baxter review because there were questions asked about things that interested me, and questions asked about things that didn't.

Tony Baxter, actually, but what's in a name?

Perhaps that's an indication of the real "problem" at UD, (THIS GOES TO EVERYONE) there's so many fans of one thing and hardly any fans of something else. For instance, the fans of Disney animation to fans of Disney live-action ratio is certainly off balance, and I'm glad for it because my love for Disney lies with how great their animation is over how entertaining their movies are in general (though I could say their animation is what entertains me). That's just one example.

What I'd give for UD to be a huge consortium of soap opera fans...

I think that UD's "balance", so to speak, is really indicative of Disney fandom as a whole. More people are apt to know about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs than they would Johnny Tremain. But it's all more about the Disney name than a fan devotion. Casual fans aren't really well-informed of what's Disney unless it's animated, and in recent years, Disney live-action films for the most part were forgettable films with a few standout and "timeless" hits. More people would know about Mary Poppins than they would The Watcher in the Woods, because Disney's live-action arm, however great they may be, has to compete with a LOT more than Disney's animation arm. Up until the 1980s, Disney really was the only major player of animated feature films in the US, whereas everyone's been making live-action features for years upon years.

Anyway, sorry about the review, maybe I should've read the whole thing and then made a reply, but I have limited time on the computer, so I only want to do things that really interest me. It's also hard to have an opinion or anything good to say about things you don't have a passion for. When you're apathetic, you're apathetic. And I'm sure other people, if they don't have limited computer time, just don't have enough time in the day to pay attention to things they don't care the most about.

Tell me about it. I find myself interested in less and less that even if I do have time to post about it, I wouldn't really want to.

when someone posts a new picture of a costume it would certainly matter if someone said, "He doesn't even look like a crab!" because, well, you can see how that's very important, especially since it indicates how well the whole show will do.

But does a crab need to look like a crab? Some of the best productions ever put to stage or screen does so without making its setting and characters look too literal. Think Our Town or any minimalist production that doesn't have traditional "sets". Also, there are films like The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and the ballet sequence in An American in Paris, which provides abstract designs that have a degree of realism to them. Of course, I'm guessing with The Little Mermaid musical they're striving to provide a colorful interpretation that is closer to animated realism than it is to a literal one. So maybe a crab should look like a crab. But still, who are we to dictate what a crab will look like to anyone?

remember that the length of a post doesn't equate with the quality or substance of a post. I would rather read short, concise posts that can get across all the points and ideas in as few words as possible, because I honestly don't like reading long things even when it's about something I'm very interested in, though it depends on what is being written.

*wonders if I should write a long drawn out post saying "I agree"*

*starts writing, but feels thirsty so goes to refrigerator to get a glass of lemonade*

*finds that the lemonade is gone, having finished it this morning. Feels rather dejected for awhile. Contemplates crying over lost lemonade*

*instead, sits down and watches an episode of "Friends". The one where Rachel does laundry for the first time and Ross gets that macho-sounding detergent because Snuggle is too...snuggly*

*remembers that he has to go back and finish the post*

*goes back and finishes post*

Also, I agree, a pay-site would not be a good idea. When a soap opera board I used to frequent went to pay-only, I left them. It wasn't that I didn't have the money, it's the principle of the thing. Sure, we may bicker and argue that some people should be allowed to post and others shouldn't, but really no one should really have to go so far as to say, "Okay, if you feel your posts are worth making, a small fee is required." I am against any board that has its members have to pay for their voice to be heard.

And Ames, I think everything you say has quality to it. Don't ever think otherwise!

Scapsta