The Secret of NIMH and The Black Cauldron

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Before Don Bluth made The Scret of Nimh himself, he had suggested this movie to Disney when he worked there, but they tought it was too dark to be made into an animated feature.

But the first movie Disney released after Bluth had released Nimh, was The Black Cauldron, one of the darkest movies Disney have made. So why did they change their mind? Was it just a coincidence, or was it because of what they saw Bluth's results?

I know The Black Cauldron had been in pre-production for many years, but could it be that Nimh caused them to make it a little darker, or would it happened anyway? It says the movie was five years in actual production, and was released in 1985, while Nimh was released in 1982. But Bluth had in early 1980 showed some footage of the movie, the sequence where Mrs. Brisby visits the Great Owl.

I'm asking because I have heard there were rumors back then that there was a risk that the Disney studio might was about to close their doors. And then suddenly they makes a very expensive and dark movie. If that's not the reason, why did they put so much resources into the film? Because it was number 25 in the canon perhaps? One can't deny that the movie was special in many ways; 70mm, ATP-process, first use of CGI in the canon, the return of the multiplane camera and PG rating, and was not a typical Disney feature. Which of course makes me curious what we have in wait for movie number 50 in the canon, which can't be many years away (2011 maybe?).


Also, "Shortly before the film's release to theaters, newly appointed Disney chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg ordered several scenes from The Black Cauldron be cut, due to the fear that the graphic nature of them would alienate children and family audiences."
Is there any hope that there will ever be released a director's cut?

[Barbossa]

I'd welcome any new edition to replace the Gold Collection.

[EricMontreal22]

This is getting really anal but actually it was Ken Anderson, as Bluth says in the short docu on Nimh's new disc, that brouhgt the novel to Disney. The high ups didn't like it for a few reasons but it alwasy stuck with Bluth.

Anyway it's an interesting idea but I'm nearly certain that Black Cauldron's look and feel had virtually nothing to do with NIMH (especially as NIMH wasn't a commercial success and, like you say, Cauldron had already been in preproduction, and if anything was originally even darker).

Remember at that time fantasy films aimed at a teen (ie older than kid) audience were becoming standard for cinemas--ever since Star Wars (with films like Ladyhawk, etc) and if anything Disney ws a bit slow to try to grasp onto that, particularly with their animated films. But I see far more similarities between Cauldron and some of those live action fantasy films of the early 80s than NIMH.

The reason Cauldron was so grand and expensive was because it was made to showcase "the new guard". Fox and the Hound had been largely the work of the new youngr animators but still had input from some of the old guys--Cauldron was meant to be "the Snow White" for the new team--to really show the world what they could do (they even spent a lot of money working on creating the first moving hollogram, so that one of the Cauldron Born would walk over the audience, before discovering it was impossible).

I believe it's been confirmed that the cut scenes from Cauldron are completely lost (I don't think all of them were completely coloured either) much like some of the violence from Bluith's Landbefore Time was cut (10 mins apparantly) by Spielberg and is now lost.

I started a thread on off topic about the new DVD of NIMH--I'm thankful we have it but I find the picture often flickers--anyone else find this? Is this just cuz the restoration wasn't as full as could be done? (I know the old prints flickered quite badly)

[Rumpelstiltskin]

OK, thanks for the info.

Yes, The Black Cauldron would probably have been made anyway, I was just curious if it would have been more targeted against children than teenagers if it was not for Bluth. Even if Nimh wasn't a commercial success, this was in 1982, when the Black Cauldron was already in production. But the first test screenings were shown in early 1980, so it could have had some impact (if not on Disney, then on others) long before release.
If Disney as you say was just following the the current trend in the entertaiment industry at that time, which focused on a little more adult movies with fantasic content, like Star Wars and others, then the movie would probably have ended up as it did anyway.

For me it looks like the Black Cauldron have much in common with Sleeping Beuaty. Both were expensive, long production times, contained a lot of ambitions and so on, but failures when released. Since then, Sleeping Beauty ha become a movie that Disney today is proud of. What the status of the Black Cauldron is today, I'm not sure. At least technically, it is a very interesting movie. And the same goes of course for Nimh.

So the cut scenes are lost forever? I really hate it when that happens. I'm sure Disney regrets today. Imagine if a director's cut was released on DVD, how many wouldn't have bought it. Or simply add them as bonus material. Hopefully it is a more common practise these says not to throw away deleted scenes. Especially since it should be easy to store them in computers.

I don't know about the Nimh DVD, I have only seen the VHS a long time ago. But I should probably buy it soon.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Disney was just trying to stay true to the books. In fact they made certain stuff more Disney like than the original book.

[blackcauldron85]

I don't even know if anyone besides the workers in the Disney Archives knows if the edited footage still exists. I've read yes, and I've read no. I guess we'll never know unless they come out with a Director's Cut...!!!

[REINIER]

the first new edition will probably be the blue ray one and i dare say that it will contain ''some'' new material, but since disney has also left out some vital interviews (tv-specials) with the release of their socalled platinum edition of the lion king (i still feel royally f***d )
i suppose it would be very unlikely to wish for any kind of serious upgrade.
Love Disney, hate their dvd-releases