How many animators got fired after Sleeping Beauty?

[Rumpelstiltskin]

One link says:

"The animation staff had swollen to it's largest to finish the production. Sleeping Beauty's disappointing box office soured Walt Disney on feature animation. After the film was finished the studio had a massive layoff, dropping from 551 to 75. Artists employed since "Bambi" and earlier found pink dismissal slips on their drawing disks when they came to work. One inker committed suicide."

http://grimsociety.com/wayback/janwb.html

Another one says:

"Walt had chopped his animation staff from 1200 down to 200 after "Sleeping Beauty" was completed."

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... -2006.html


Is one or any of them correct?

[lord-of-sith]

I don't know of a specific number, all I can say is "too many"

If only Walt knew what a classic the film would become after its release (as so happens oh too often with many great films).

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Even more frustrating is the fact that many animated movies that was supposed to be made in the early days (and I'm not just talking about Disney), never went into productuon. One has to wonder what the results would have been if the right people had dared to take the risk.

[Mr. Toad]

I can tell you what the results would have been - chaos and probably bankruptcy.

During Sleeping Beauty there were far too many animators. They had slews of them sitting around literally doing nothing according to several people. I can remember seeing a Chuck Jones interview specifically among others I cant recall.

The staffing levels became unweildy and unmanageable.

It would be interesting to have a citation for the comment that Walt Disney soured on feature animation. Not really something I have ever seen attributed to him before. All he did was retrench, hardly gave up although the pace certainly slowed down. However, the reasons may well have been financial given one film financed the next. If Sleeping Beauty failed then there was less money available for the next one.

The comment about Walt not taking risks is absolutely bizarre. It is all he ever did. Look at the risk of Snow White, the studio would have failed if it had failed. Walt could have stayed comfortable and pumped out shorts but did not. He risked it all again on Disneyland. Mortgaged everything, sold the rights to the concessions. I think you need to do some non-internet reading on Disney before making such bizarre statements.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I said "the right people", not "Walt Disney". I think Walt had planned some more features before and during WW2 that never were made for obvious reasons, even if some of them, like Peter Pan, was made later, but that's about all I remember. Maybe I will try to find out more about it some day, but not tonight.

About not dare to take risks, other countries could have made a feature much earlier if they had done just that:

"Anson Dyer's The Story of the Flag (1927) would have been Britain's first feature-length animated film, about an hour long, but producer Archibald Nettlefold lost confidence, and it was finally issued as six short films. The use of colour processes in British animation was constrained by the fact that Disney had a monopoly on the use of three-colour Technicolor until 1934. Thus, although systems such as Dunning Colour were employed in the early part of the decade, the first three-colour British animated film, Fox Hunt (running time?), by Anthony Gross and Hector Hoppin, didn't appear until 1935."

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/445505/

"Walt could have stayed comfortable and pumped out shorts but did not."

From what I have heard, the reason why he decided to make Snow White was because the production of the shorts wouldn't pay off in the long run due to different changes in the industry at that time. If he hadn't made a whole feature, it is not unlikely the studio would have disappeared.
When he was in Europe, he had visited some cinemas where Disney shorts had been fused together to package films, resulting in movies over an hour long, and people loved it. This is one of the reasons why he knew for sure that the audience would be sitting in front of the big screen through a whole feature, even if it was animated and in Technicolor (yes, the bright colors was used as an argument why it probably would fail).

[MagicMirror]

Sleeping Beauty's budget was $6 million in comparison to 101 Dalmatians' $3.7 million budget. In my opinion, that just goes to show that a huge budget and a mammoth team of artists do not a great picture make. For Sleeping Beauty Walt wasn't around very much to help; he was focused mainly on Disneyland and on other TV projects. As I understand it those who worked on the film didn't get on very well as a team. This shows in the film, which doesn't seem to me to hold together very well.

I think by the time they got to 101 Dalmatians they must have learnt how to cope without Walt, because, in my opinion, it's superior to Sleeping Beauty in design, animation, story and characters, and really does hold together better. Ken Anderson developed a style much better suited to animation and Bill Peet wrote and drew the storyboards, designed the characters, cast the film and directed voice sessions, as well as becoming the 'substitute Walt' of the film. You've also got animators like Marc Davis embracing the style and giving among their best 'animation acting' performances. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that 101 Dalmatians is the best postwar Disney film. But I've wandered off topic somewhat!

[kurtadisneyite]

Whenever Walt got particularly interested in something new, such as shorts, then feature animation, then animation-live action, then theme parks, then TV shows promoting Disney, then EPCOT-style projects, he would focus most of his talents, enthusasim and attention towards the newest challanges.

For each area he moved beyond (shorts, live action , etc.) he relied on other managers, and generally expected those areas to be profitable and complementary towards the Disney brand name. If an area did not perform well, he would reorganize, or curtail, those activities.

One example of this is Disney Publications. Some of the earlier work, up through PINOCCHIO, were very well illustrated for its time period. As animation progressed, the publications became more neglected and their artwork quality diminished. In fact, many publications were farmed out to outside contractors which, in some cases, produced abysmal results (one collection of well known childrens stories dissed a 50's Disney "Cinderella" book as being "cake decoration" art).

To Disney Productions' credit, most of the artwork made a huge turnaround in the '80s. Today, some of it is exceptionally fine, such as that in the "Cinderella III" book.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Who knows what he would have moved onto if he had still been alive a couple of more decades. It is said he was a lover of junkfood, so perhaps he would have started the production of snacks and candy with the Disney logo? In some ways he reminds me about Richard Branson.

One of the reasons for the diagreements with those involved in Sleeping Beauty was that the animators meant Disney had given Eivind Earl too much dominance over the artists. At least that's what the rumors says.
No matter how the movie turned out when it comes to story, no one can argue that visually it is some of the most amazing movies made by Disney.

[Mr. Toad]

Who knows what he would have moved onto if he had still been alive a couple of more decades. It is said he was a lover of junkfood, so perhaps he would have started the production of snacks and candy with the Disney logo? In some ways he reminds me about Richard Branson.

.

I am sure the love of junk foods really did not help him extend his lifespan. Neither did the cigarettes.

[MagicMirror]

One of the reasons for the diagreements with those involved in Sleeping Beauty was that the animators meant Disney had given Eivind Earl too much dominance over the artists. At least that's what the rumors says.
No matter how the movie turned out when it comes to story, no one can argue that visually it is some of the most amazing movies made by Disney.

Eyvind Earle, when he worked on Sleeping Beauty, was not as experienced in animation as most of the other artists but insisted that everything be done his way. Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston complained to Walt Disney about this, and he sided with Earle. It is said that he was frustrated with not being able to get Mary Blair's art on the screen for much of the 50s, and was determined to get Earle's exact style in the film. Thomas even became so stressed working on the film that he developed a nasty rash. However, Thomas and Johnston later agreed that the film's style created an epic feel not equalled in many other films.

Most animation critics consider it a mistake that Sleeping Beauty wasn't made as a team effort. It was essentially one man's way or the highway (animation is at its best when it's a 'give and take' process between the team, and 101 Dalmatians is an example of this).

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Interesting info, and makes one think what the movie could have been if everything had gone smoothly. But the style is still something of the most impressive I have seen in an animated movie. Especially the scenes in the forest, where it really looks like the characters are walking through a painting. And imaging that everything was done by hand. Bambi is still used by animators for inspiration, and that probably goes for this movie as well.
101 Dalmatians is great too, but some of the pre-xerography features from Disney has never been repeated since. Again, I'm not talking about the stories in this case, no matter how important that his, but the animation and the backgrounds.



(Maybe a little off-topic, but I would say the cigarettes caused a far worse damage than the food.)

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

Walt was a bussinesman, he did only what he thought was good for his business' future. No Disney's not only about childrens' dreams, happines, faith, trust and pixie dust. Even back then, and now even more, it was all about money, money, MONEY. Unfortunately. We have to feel happy that we sit here and watch all this on our TV screens. The people who worked in there did feel nothing of that so-called "Disney's Magic". Which is sad because they create it.

[MagicMirror]

I think style is an area where 101 Dalmatians once again succeeds over Sleeping Beauty, though I know I'm in a minority in this respect. The xerox process in general meant a decline in design style for the Disney features (you can really see it in The Rescuers); however, the only films that really take advantage of the look produced in the xerox process are, in my opinion, The Sword in the Stone, and, without a doubt, 101 Dalmatians. It's a film that takes full advantage of the characteristics that could be considered weaknesses of most other xerox films.

Ken Anderson knew that lines would play a bigger part in the look of 101 Dalmatians than any previous film the studio made, so it was a stroke of genius that he chose, as a stylistic influence, caricaturist Ronald Searle (who worked in pen and ink). Not only does this style work extremely well with the big black lines produced in the xerox process, but Searle's element of caricature used in the design perfectly compliments the character types in the film. Even disregarding story and focusing purely on design, I would definitely say that the more extreme character designs in 101 Dalmatians make for more appealing, certainly more memorable characters, than those of Sleeping Beauty, most of whom are rather bland and uninteresting. The use of lines in the backgrounds meant that the animation is fully integrated with the backgrounds (as though it's all one big moving drawing) without the backgrounds distracting from the characters (as in Sleeping Beauty, where many of the characters move rather awkwardly). I agree that there is a great, epic feel to Sleeping Beauty, but that is really only taken advantage of in the finale.

But I definitely agree that most of the films after 101 Dalmatians suffered as a result of not being handmade. I would have loved to see The Little Mermaid in Kay Nielsen's style (as opposed to the fairly generic design style it ended up with), and The Hunchback of Notre Dame suffered because of it's clean digital style (a more atmospheric, expressionistic style ala Pinocchio would have been more appropriate). There are a few exceptions (Aladdin and Hercules spring to mind) that take more advantage of their medium.

[jwa1107]

Who knows what he would have moved onto if he had still been alive a couple of more decades. It is said he was a lover of junkfood, so perhaps he would have started the production of snacks and candy with the Disney logo? In some ways he reminds me about Richard Branson.

sort of a tangent, but Disney does have its own food brand at our local grocery stores (some of it 'junk', some not so much)

you can even get Mickey-shaped cheese slices and hamburger patties...

https://licensing.disney.com/Login/disp ... lth_beauty

we bought some of the cheese as a one-time novelty and it tasted like cheese; and I do in fact like the Monsters, Inc. cereal on occasion...

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Sleeping Beauty and 101 Dalmatians are very different - and I think it's fair to say that they're hard to compare... It can easily be argued that 101 Dalmatians is "better" (or at least more successful) than Sleeping Beauty in some respects. Ultimately a matter of taste and opinion. But it's also quite obvious that an era of cost-cutting in Disney animation started with 101 Dalmatians.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

jwa1107:

Well, I was thinking more like Nestlé, Häagen-Dazs or McDonald's and such. But if there already is a Disney food brand in USA (and other countries), just forget I mentioned it. Like I said, I was only speculating which new areas he might would have moved into if he had lived a couple of decades more or so.


Aladdin from Agrabah:

I don't know how the older Walt was thinking, but at least in his early days he said "I'm not making movies to make money, I'm making money to make movies". Or it could have been on his older days, I just assumed it was in the first golden age era when he still had a major personal involvement in the movies.


MagicMirror:

I'm not saying that one style it better than another, or which one is the best. I don't compare them like that. My point is that the design in Sleeping Beauty is unique in the canon, and movies like Bambi and Pinocchio are also unique in their own ways, and represents something that can never be repeated again, most of all because actualy cel animation is as good as extinct today.
From then on, the animation was of course still being handmade, but one step in the process had been taken over by machines, for good and for worse.

101 Dalmatians seems to be unique in the way they turned the trademarks of xerography into their own advantage, and made a movie with a new style never seen before in an animated feature.

Yes, it would have been something special if Disney had made The Hunchback of Notre Dame instead of Pinocchio or Fantasia. I remember the use of the multiplane camera in the 1940 movies, and it would have been very impressive to see it used on the Notre Dame. It's not too long ago since I saw Pinocchio, and included was some bonus material where we got to see some seconds from the film before it got digitally restaured. I don't know if it's just the nostalgia in me talking, but I actually preferred how it looked before the clean up.

Didn't The Rescuers represent a new step in the xerox process? This was the first movie where other toners than black was used when transferring the animation to cels. Either way, both The Rescuers and The Jungle Book are among my favorites, maybe because these were the first Disney movies I saw in the theatre when I was still in kindergarten.

[MagicMirror]

Though I do have a preference for 101 Dalmatians' style, I was really trying to say that I feel that 101 Dalmatians is more successful at a complete unity in design than Sleeping Beauty, regardless of style, and that this is a reflection of the team working better in Dalmatians than Beauty. I also feel that, as far as style is concerned, 101 Dalmatians is vastly underrated, as it tends to get unfairly lumped with the other xerox films, most of which seem to have struggled design-wise.

In comparison Sleeping Beauty is a teensy bit overrated in this respect . I don't feel that the enormous amount of work put into it paid off too well; it does not feel like a single entity, and there are slight inconsistencies here and there that reveal a team at war with each other. I agree with Michael Barrier who (I think!) said that, had Walt been around, a better unity probably would have been achieved. As it was, there was no single guiding force for the film. But I agree that the style is completely unique. The style, in itself, is great, and the animation (particularly from Marc Davis) keeps it interesting, but I don't think it holds together as well as that of the film that followed it.

But I agree with you; 101 Dalmatians is a rare exception, and nearly all the xerox films do not seem to take full advantage of the xerox process. I think there's a little bit of artistic flair creeping into the Jungle Book, which I found to be visually satisfying and atmospheric (the backgrounds even look a little Dore-influenced). You're probably right about The Rescuers, because the lines seem a little softer. However, The Rescuers gives me the feeling that the artists were trying as hard as possible to get a more atmospheric look, but didn't quite manage to because the xerox process didn't allow it.

It's not too long ago since I saw Pinocchio, and included was some bonus material where we got to see some seconds from the film before it got digitally restaured. I don't know if it's just the nostalgia in me talking, but I actually preferred how it looked before the clean up.

I think you're right. The restored version I have certainly has less warmth than the version I have on tape. This was the look I would have loved to see on Hunchback, but it seems digital technology wasn't quite up to it (and probably still isn't). The handmade quality is one of Pinocchio's charms, and that film is probably still the best (perhaps tied with Bambi) at suggesting a living, breathing world.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Seems like we mostly are agreed about the subjects.

Up till now, Disney have used the CAPS technique in the digital stage of the production. So it will be exiting to see how The Princess and the Frog will turn out since they will use more modern tools than CAPS in this film.

[Big Disney Fan]

I don't know of a specific number, all I can say is "too many"

If only Walt knew what a classic the film would become after its release (as so happens oh too often with many great films).

Like Fantasia, eh? I also know that although neither Pinocchio nor Bambi turned a profit right off the bat, their respective first re-releases, both of which came five years after their respective initial releases (Pinocchio's was in '45 and Bambi's in '47, respectively) helped both films into the black at last. And they've been favorites ever since. I myself find Pinocchio as one of my all-time favorite Disney films ever (along with Alice In Wonderland).

Fantasia, though, that was another story altogether. It took much longer for it to recover its costs. It wasn't until around 1969, one of the years that film was released, during the psychidelia era no less, that the film finally got in the black.

Okay, I'm getting off-topic. I never knew that so many people were fired after Sleeping Beauty. I do know about the dismissals occurring during the early 1940s, during the infamous strike of '41. I know of several animators fired, including two immortals of the day, Art Babbitt and Bill Tytla (known for his more powerful creations, like Stromboli, from Pinocchio, or Chernabog, from Fantasia).

[MagicMirror]

As far as I know, Art Babbit and Bill Tytla were the only 'top animators' to participate in the strike. I think Babbit actually headed the strike, while Tytla seems to have joined out of faith to Babbit (who I believe was his best friend at the studio at the time). Afterwards, though Tytla kept writing to the studio asking for his old job back. Dsepite his role in the strike, Babbit, in my opinion, was one of the best animators at the studio. He animated the Queen in her 'fair' form (which he didn't rotoscope), Gepetto, and the mushrooms in Fantasia, which is one of the most memorable moments in any Disney film. He also defined the character of Goofy. He did hold something of a grudge against Walt for much of his life, though.

I'm not sure if I would compare Sleeping Beauty's initial failure to that of Pinocchio and Fantasia since (as I've rather pompously made clear ) I really don't think Sleeping Beauty is that good a film, while Pinocchio is pretty much unequalled. From my point of view, Sleeping Beauty's failure seemed to jolt the animators back into form, while Pinocchio's failure prevented them from continuing to shine quite so brilliantly.