Woman dies after ride on Mission:Space

[Karushifa]

I just read this rather unfortunate story on CNN's website:

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Florida (AP) -- A woman died Wednesday after going on a ride at Walt Disney World so intense that it has motion sickness bags.

The 49-year-old woman became ill after riding "Mission: Space" on Tuesday. She was taken to a hospital, and died a day later, park spokeswoman Kim Prunty said in a statement.

No more information on the woman was available Wednesday, Prunty said. Nor was the cause of death immediately known.

Meanwhile, the ride has been closed, and a state agency will monitor an inspection, Prunty said.

Disney officials told state inspectors Wednesday that the woman felt dizzy and nauseated after the ride and may have had high blood pressure and other health problems, said Terence McElroy, a spokesman for the department that oversees the ride-monitoring agency.

You can read the rest of the story at: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/13/disney ... index.html

Although I'm sure that Disney goes to great lengths to make sure that people with fragile health conditions don't go on rides like this, this story, along with the news of the four-year-old boy's death previously, still concerns me. Normally, injuries and deaths on park rides are mostly due to passenger error, such as deliberately undoing safety restraints and whatnot, so two deaths on the same ride in such a short period of time that cannot be directly attributed to direct disobeying of ride regulations, I think, is cause to worry. My question is, if the ride is really so intense as to cause a health risk to riders, even those who believe themselves to be physically sound enough to ride it, should Disney look into toning down the ride a bit?

[Loomis]

The problem is finding the right balance between thrill ride and 'non-lethal'. If you have a condition that you are aware of - or possibly NOT aware of - then anything could set it off. Disney could tone down their rides, or they could warn people.

The whole point of these rides is to give the body a scare. As a result, Disney adequately warns people not to ride if they have certain health conditions. If neither Disney nor the rider knows of underlying health conditions, then there is do definite blame to be had. Unless you take the "egg shell skull" principle of torts, and say that Disney must take its riders as they are, and assume that even if that person had a weaker consitution, it was ultimately the ride that sent it over the edge.

What does this mean? Less thrilling rides? Stricter signs? Blood pressure tests before boarding? It's hard to tell at the moment. However, as I understand it, Floridian law is different to the one in California. I believe it is up to Disney at the moment to make all the necessary changes to the ride if it seems there is a problem.

Just a follow up story:

Space Ride at Disney World Reopens After Death

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/13/us/13cnd-disney.html

A statement today by a representative of the park said Disney engineers, monitored by state regulators, "completed a thorough inspection of the attraction overnight and found it to be operating properly."

It was not known whether the woman had some underlying medical condition that was aggravated by the operation of the ride, which spins passengers at twice the force of gravity. An autopsy is scheduled for Friday, the medical examiner's office said.

Disney said in a statement that the family had not authorized the company to release any further information.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

Disney could tone down their rides, or they could warn people.

When you wait in line for this ride, they warn you MANY times that if you have any slight fear of motion sickness or spinning, you shouldn't ride this ride. In fact my Mom did a test to see how many times they warn you as they wait in line, she count around 8 or 9!

Anyway, this is sad news! I pray for the family of the woman.

Personally, I don't find anything too bad about this ride. I mean I personally didn't find it any worse than your typical simulator or "Gravatron" carnival ride. But I guess all bodies are built different. Maybe she had medical problems like that 4-year old boy.

But I can see why this ride can be a bit hard to stomach for some. My Mom can tell you a different story when I forced her to go on MS! Sad to say, it wasn't a pretty story.

[Escapay]

My question is, if the ride is really so intense as to cause a health risk to riders, even those who believe themselves to be physically sound enough to ride it, should Disney look into toning down the ride a bit?

But the thing is, it's *already* been toned down. During castmember guinea pig testings, the ride was MUCH more intense than it is now. A vet CM told me about it, and how one of his friends was a guinea pig, that when she got off the ride, she had vertigo for several days, not to mention that she couldn't feel G-forces. One night when she was driving home, she couldn't feel how fast the car was, and thought she was doing 50, but looked at the speedometer and saw it was around 95 or so.

So as intense as the ride is now, it's actually pretty low-key compared to its original speeds.

Escapay

[Karushifa]

But the thing is, it's *already* been toned down. During castmember guinea pig testings, the ride was MUCH more intense than it is now. A vet CM told me about it, and how one of his friends was a guinea pig, that when she got off the ride, she had vertigo for several days, not to mention that she couldn't feel G-forces. One night when she was driving home, she couldn't feel how fast the car was, and thought she was doing 50, but looked at the speedometer and saw it was around 95 or so.

So as intense as the ride is now, it's actually pretty low-key compared to its original speeds.

Whoa...I feel for that poor "test subject"...

Now, I'm all for thrilling rides, Out-Of-This-World Adventures, etc., but I think there is a certain level they can keep things at where the majority of the people have FUN instead of thrills and spills of the unpleasant kind.

For example: Body Wars and Star Tours use approximately the same type of simulator technology. But - and I have heard other Disney World goers attest to this - Body Wars is a more "intense" ride than Star Tours, not in a life-threatening way, but Body Wars is just violent enough to make people who can stand Star Tours come out a lilttle queasy. I think Star Tours is a perfectly enjoyable ride, and most of the people I have ridden it with came through without feeling green. So "toning down" while keeping the ride fun for most people is possible, I think.

Now, while the simulator rides just shake you around a bit, with Mission : Space, the ante is upped in terms of actual pressures on the body. I'd say if people are not only getting sick to the point where they need to use the supplied barf bags, but are actually being transported to the hospital with chest pains on a semi-regular basis, then the ride's intensity needs to be re-evaulated. Either that, or Disney needs to seriously change its wording on the pre-ride signs that tell people whether or not they should go on it. They need to not only emphasize the potential for motion sickness (which in itself usually not a big health risk in the long run), but for other ailments as well, especially with the growing number of cardiovascular problems that may need a jarring event such as an enhanced G-force ride to manifest themselves.

[Escapay]

For example: Body Wars and Star Tours use approximately the same type of simulator technology. But - and I have heard other Disney World goers attest to this - Body Wars is a more "intense" ride than Star Tours, not in a life-threatening way, but Body Wars is just violent enough to make people who can stand Star Tours come out a lilttle queasy. I think Star Tours is a perfectly enjoyable ride, and most of the people I have ridden it with came through without feeling green. So "toning down" while keeping the ride fun for most people is possible, I think.

It's been quite a few years since I rode Body Wars (and I doubt I ever will again since WoL is closed), but IIRC, the reason many thought it was more intense was not only because it was within a human body (even seeing enlarged fake blood cells makes me a bit queasy), but also because it was much more bumpy than Star Tours. There were more shakes and crashes in Body Wars than in Star Tours, which seemed to glide around smoothly with a few shakes thrown in during the battle and landing scenes.

Escapay

[Karushifa]

It's been quite a few years since I rode Body Wars (and I doubt I ever will again since WoL is closed), but IIRC, the reason many thought it was more intense was not only because it was within a human body (even seeing enlarged fake blood cells makes me a bit queasy), but also because it was much more bumpy than Star Tours. There were more shakes and crashes in Body Wars than in Star Tours, which seemed to glide around smoothly with a few shakes thrown in during the battle and landing scenes.

In his "Only Travel Guide You'll Ever Need", Dave Barry describes a trip he took with his family to Epcot where they partook of some regional delicacies in the German pavilion right before going on Body Wars. "'Never go through the aorta after eating German food,' is our new travel motto."

On the other hand, I've also heard people complain that Star Tours is TOO tame. There's probably a happy medium between there and the Body Wars sequence, if they wanted to re-vamp the former.

[Loomis]

Disney could tone down their rides, or they could warn people.

When you wait in line for this ride, they warn you MANY times that if you have any slight fear of motion sickness or spinning, you shouldn't ride this ride. In fact my Mom did a test to see how many times they warn you as they wait in line, she count around 8 or 9!

Dude, that's like totally my point.

Disney has warned these people countless times. If they choose to get on anyway, ye be fairly warned says I.

[Karushifa]

Dude, that's like totally my point.

Disney has warned these people countless times. If they choose to get on anyway, ye be fairly warned says I.

The problem I have is not that people ignore the warnings and end up barfing on the ride anyway. If you are prone to motion sickness and end up going on the ride in spite of that, then the ball is definitely in your court. My concern is with people who have potentially dangerous health conditions that either: a) they don't know about at all (this may have been the case with the 4-year-old who died); or b) don't seriously think would be exacerbated by this kind of ride.

The thing is, this sort of ride is rare enough that most people don't have a frame of reference for what it's really like. Roller coasters, even ones that imploy "slingshot" technology like Rockin' Roller Coaster, expose you to increased G-forces for about a second at a time, if that (at the start and at the tops of loops). Simulators like Body Wars jerk you around, but don't really involve unusual pressures on the body. But Mission: Space is an unknown quantity to a lot of folks. From the commercials, it may look to some as if you just sit back and watch a video, sort of like in the Soarin' ride, when in reality it's far from being that gentle.

To have a lot of people end up dizzy after the ride...okay, maybe they asked for it. To have people transported to the hospital with chest pains...okay, that's potentially worse, and something that doesn't happen on a lot of other rides. But to have two deaths within a year of one another, neither of which were due to intentional rider misuse (unlike a lot of other amusement park deaths)...that may just be something for Disney to worry about.

[Escapay]

Another thing to consider is just how seriously people take the warning signs. After all, they may think it's part of the attraction. Warning signs that make the ride sound more dangerous than it is. I always laugh whenever I see "Last Chance Exit" at Splash Mountain, even though it functions as that. But people may simply see it as Disney being cocky. Almost as if they post the warning signs with the intention that people who DON'T follow it are proving (if only to themselves) that a person with back problems can do Rock'n'Roller Coaster and feel fine afterwards, or a person prone to motion sickness can take on Mission Space and walk away without having to visit the restroom. It's an ego thing for guests, essentially. Which is why warning signs should be taken more seriously. Disney should continually stress just how dangerous some rides can be for some guests, and guest simply should stop thinking they're invincible when they enter the park.

Escapay

[Loomis]

Well, short of everybody signing waivers as they go into the park, I'm not sure how much emphasis Disney needs to put on the body stresses created by the rides.

Take something like the Tower of Terror, for example. People KNOW that it is a falling sensation. People know they are going in to feel something the body doesn't typically like, but that is half the fun. Now as rational as you can be about it, the body really doesn't like the sensation of dropping really quickly. Some people are fine with that, others are really not. Now how, exactly, does Disney - or any theme park for that matter - tell every person going in that?

"This is your body...This is Frank's body...see that guy behind you? That's how he is going to react". It is impossible to predict every eventuality here, and that's why they call it a "thrill ride". So what are the alternative? Put up more signs? Make people sign waivers for each ride? Blood pressure tests in the queuing area? Individually tailored warning? Worse still - get rid of all the thrill rides, and just have the safe ones, where nobody could possibly get hurt.

It is a tragedy that somebody got killed on the ride, but the truth is, if they had a pre-existing condition they were unaware of, ANYTHING could have set it off. It is like someone getting hit by a bus and suddenly rethinking the whole concept of public transport.

[GhostHost]

warning signs mean nothing, most amusement parks give warnings on every ride no matter the intensity(Universal). My dad has several health problems but can ride Splash Mountain, Star Tours, Big Thunder, Indiana Jones, Rapids Rides, even the jerky Back to the Future at universal parks. Warnings mean nothing on most rides and hence people do not take them seriously on rides like Mission: Space.
Does anybody else here ponder the fate of Mission: Space? Will it be toned down even more or taken out completely? I don't think Walt would want a ride headlining the news because of deaths.

[JiminyCrick91]

Does anybody else here ponder the fate of Mission: Space? Will it be toned down even more or taken out completely? I don't think Walt would want a ride headlining the news because of deaths.

I DO! I hope that they don't take it out or tone it down because its one of my favorite rides! And yes I felt fine each and every time!

[Fidget1234]

people who refuse to listen/read the warnings go on at their own risk. they are very well aware of what they are putting themselves into w/ their health condittions.

If u dont read the warnings on the signs outside the attraction/in the quene line, or in the guidemap.

Or listen to the CMs tell u as u walk in, before u go into pre-show or listen to the pre-recorded warning in the quene line that is played like every 2 minutes & on the tvs during BOTH pre-shows...then im sorry- i dont really feel any pity-they know what postion they are putting themselves in. There are plenty of warnings for those w/ any sort of condition.

One of the best attractions on property. What a thrill.

They wont get rid of it. it's had less foot traffic since Soarin opened- but it is still a fav among many many many guests.

[Karushifa]

Well, short of everybody signing waivers as they go into the park, I'm not sure how much emphasis Disney needs to put on the body stresses created by the rides.

Take something like the Tower of Terror, for example. People KNOW that it is a falling sensation. People know they are going in to feel something the body doesn't typically like, but that is half the fun. Now as rational as you can be about it, the body really doesn't like the sensation of dropping really quickly. Some people are fine with that, others are really not. Now how, exactly, does Disney - or any theme park for that matter - tell every person going in that?

"This is your body...This is Frank's body...see that guy behind you? That's how he is going to react". It is impossible to predict every eventuality here, and that's why they call it a "thrill ride". So what are the alternative? Put up more signs? Make people sign waivers for each ride? Blood pressure tests in the queuing area? Individually tailored warning? Worse still - get rid of all the thrill rides, and just have the safe ones, where nobody could possibly get hurt.

It is a tragedy that somebody got killed on the ride, but the truth is, if they had a pre-existing condition they were unaware of, ANYTHING could have set it off. It is like someone getting hit by a bus and suddenly rethinking the whole concept of public transport.

Well, like I mentioned before, the distinction between Mission: Space and other rides (Tower of Terror, the countless steel tube coasters, etc.) is that this is a ride that people will more likely have no frame of reference for. Tower of Terror has many knock-offs now that simulate free-fall (even one at DCA, the Mali-Boomer), and Disney actually jumped on the fast steel coaster bandwagon pretty late considering how long theme parks like Busch Gardens and Six Flags have been pushing their tall, fast rides. There just aren't that many rides out there right now that feature extended periods of increased G-forces combined with potentially disorienting sensation of motion, and the people who elect to go on it may go in thinking it will be something like Test Track (the "fast" part) meets an average simulator ride.

Should Disney shut down the ride completely? Of course not, considering how many people have come out not only not sick, but having enjoyed it. But at the very least, I think, the incidents on Mission: Space merit taking a closer look at the health effects of enhanced G-forces on Joe or Jane Average. According to a story I saw on CNN today, the woman who died recently may have suffered bleeding in the brain due to a combination of the effects of the ride and high blood pressure; the question is, would she have suffered the same effects on a different type of ride? And, are ALL parties (Disney, the doctors of people with delicate medical conditions, the patients themselves) doing enough to make it clear that each ride involves a different set of sensations and/or risks? Would a person who could go on Body Wars safely just assume that Mission: Space will affect them the same, or do they really know what they're in for?

[Loomis]

people who refuse to listen/read the warnings go on at their own risk. they are very well aware of what they are putting themselves into w/ their health condittions.

If u dont read the warnings on the signs outside the attraction/in the quene line, or in the guidemap.

That's the crux of it, really. People who don't read signs won't heed warnings. However, as is mentioned above, it is the people who DON'T know they have a condition that are cause for concern?

I think this issue can be broken down into several key questions:

1) Can Disney make signs any clearer? Will this make a difference?

I believe no on both counts. If signs aren't going to be read, they are going to be heeded. Simply having them up covers Disney for some liability. By having the sign in a visible location, it is essentially a contract (in terms of offer and acceptance) between the guest and the park. The park lets you know the conditions of entry, and you accept them implicitly by entering. Of course, people who don't know they have a condition are another matter. (See below)

2) Some people don't know they have pre-existing conditions. Should all rides be toned down to accomodate for them?

Once again, this is impossible. If you don't know you have the condition, neither does Disney. Of course, there is a certain argument in both criminal and civil law that you must take your "victim" as you find them. It is commonly known as the 'egg shell skull' principle. If you hit someone that has an 'egg shell skull' and kill them, it doesn't matter that your hit wouldn't have killed a normal person. It did kill this person, so the liability is still (at least partly on you). By extension, it MAY have been the ride that set off this condition in the guest, so Disney may share some liability.

However, like I said before, Disney can't start second guessing themselves. Sure they could tone down the rides. But because a person gets hit by a bus, you don't get rid of the concept of public transport. These are THRILL RIDES, and they are meant to thrill. As sad as this case is, especially in the Happiest Place on Earth, it could not be predicted. Sure, if you apply the reasonable person test, then it is arguable that a person could conceivably be afflicted in such a manner. But millions of people are year aren't, in the same way that not everybody who gets in a car is killed by it.

3) So is there a practical solution?

Beyond the signage or removing anything more thrilling than the monorail? That I'm not sure about. People are adequately warned, but you can't predict everything. It may sound cruel and heartless, but life sometimes throws up variables that result in tragedy. Disney can't officially takes the "S**t happens" stance, of course, but the reality is that it does and it will. Disney can do everything within their power to ensure their rides are safe, and their record is pretty good. 10 fatalities out of how many hundreds of millions? Billions? I honestly don't know what can be done, but I don't think toning down/removing the rides is necessarily the answer.

[Karushifa]

Here are some possible solutions I can think of:

1) putting up MORE of the same signage won't help obviously, because they have tons already. But since this is a type of ride that many people, even theme park enthusiasts, may not know what entails, then the usual signage for other Disney rides isn't going to work. Is there a pre-ride safety video for this one, such as with the Dinosaur ride? That would be a good place to go in and make sure that the language is tailored specifically to address the difference between Mission: Space and other rides.

Outside of specific warnings at the rides, an interesting suggestion that I saw on a coaster enthusiast board was implementing a rating system for rides based on relative intensity. Apparently, the Paramout parks (or whoever owns them now) do this, using a scale of 1 to 5 with only a couple of rides in each park getting the top 5 rating and most of the other "e-ticket" type coasters earning a 4 or below. This, in my opinion, is actually not a bad idea: while Disney used to pride itself on having rides that the entire family could enjoy, they have had to catch up with other parks in the past few decades by installing rides intense enough that they might not be appropriate for some riders. Unfortunately, part of this conception of "Disney=family rides" conception still may linger in the public, which is why getting across to people that not all Disney rides are created equal anymore is important.

2) I don't think it would hurt to test different settings on the ride to see if a less intense but equally enjoyable sequence is possible. This is not only for more foolish people who ignore the signs but for people who would enjoy the ride much more if it were less intense: see the Body Wars-Star Tours example I mentioned earlier. Toning down a ride a bit doesn't have to be perceived as a cop-out if a suitable compromise can be reached, and "thrill" does not have to equate with pushing the very limit of good well-being. I go to amusement parks to have fun, not to see how far I can be driven by a ride before I need to actually use the little white bag in the seat-back pocket.

3) The biggest reason I would advocate more research into the health effects of centrifuge-type rides such as this is because they (the rides) are so uncommon. Yes, spontaneous deaths have occurred on other types of normally-operating rides (although none at Disney parks recently, as far as I know), but rides like steel tube coasters and state fair type rides have been operating for decades in large numbers, so their physics and effects on the human body I think are pretty well understood by now. This is not to say that no more centrifuge rides should be built or operated, but this might be something for the medical community to keep an eye on. It is entirely possible that the two deaths on Mission: Space were completely unrelated and could have happened anywhere else, but the fact is they DIDN'T happen on some other ride. It could be two cases of very bad luck, or there might be some unknown factor we just don't know about. Freaking out about it and shutting down the ride wholesale won't help a bit, but looking a little deeper into the death (and injury) circumstances might.

[Lucylover1986]

She did indeed have high blood pressure problems prior to being on the ride:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G4C7267FC

[Escapay]

She did indeed have high blood pressure problems prior to being on the ride:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G4C7267FC

Then it's her fault. She *knew* she had blood pressure problems. The ride, and many others, continually *enforce* that those with blood pressure problems should *not* ride the attraction. And she *willingly* went on the ride.

I'm not saying that it's her fault she's dead. I feel bad for her, I really do. But if she has blood pressure problems and the ride is continually warning that people with blood pressure problems, back problems, heart problems, etc. should *NOT* go on the ride, then she blatantly ignored the warnings. It's the invincibility ego thing again. People think it simply won't happen to them just because it could have happened to someone else.

However, the article does say that the woman was from Germany, so perhaps she didn't read the signs, which were in English, and maybe she doesn't read English.

Escapay

[Karushifa]

However, the article does say that the woman was from Germany, so perhaps she didn't read the signs, which were in English, and maybe she doesn't read English.

Hmmm, that's a possibility. I know that they produce park guides in several different languages, but as far as I know, the ride signage is primarily English (is it even also in Spanish?).

So perhaps if park guides are the primary way of communicating directly with international visitors, then they could expand them to include additional safety information...it would at least be easier to do than make individual ride signs in a lot of different languages. 'Cause, how do you decide which languages to put on the signs and which to leave off? There's only so much space to work with.