The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Criticisms, thoughts?

[streetsofgold]

This is easily disneys darkest film since black couldron. And easily their darkest cartoon post hunchback. Still the songs do let the film down. The animation is gorgeous beyong belief (it really is a work of art) and the score is fine, but some of those songs


I wish disney woulda learned from the naff songs in pocahontus, and "out there" is fine, but still...... also those 3 literally "wooden" characters spoil it. I know they are the comic relief, but they are unfunny most the time.


Anyway, not a major criticism. And this movie is by far one of disney's most interesting films to date. To pick up the story in the first place was quite a daring thing to do. And not a happy ending?

This film is the closest post lion king, that disney have come to creating art, as just opposed to enetertaining young and old audiences.

I just wish it was marketed more to arty film fans as despite the comic relief (which is mainly a unfunny letdown), this as i already said, is a true work of art.

[Disney Princess Ariellen]

I really enjoyed this film. As a kid, I didn't mind the gargoyles, now, I definitely agree that they detract from the film as a whole.

I LOVE the SCORE to this movie; breathtaking. I love the beautiful artwork and the darkness of it. Song-wise, I really like "Bells of Notre Dame," "God Help the Outcasts" and "Hellfire" and think that "A Guy Like You" is horrendously out of place...sorry, Mr. Menken...I'm one of your biggest fans, but no. I also really like the characters of Esmeralda and Frollo.

I know this movie gets a lot of flack from people who feel that it desecrates the book. While I do agree that they are very different and that a kid who sees the movie and then claims to know the story of the Hunchback because they've seen it doesn't REALLY know THE story, I think that in terms of being faithful to the THEMES of the book, they did a wonderful job. The HoND film came out when I was 11 and had just finished 5th grade...it got me VERY curious about the original story, and so I bought the book, though it was a little above my reading level. However, I did eventually read it and was blown away by it (I LOVE Victor Hugo...) and will say that yes, I can see why many are bothered that Disney has altered the story of a literary work that, unlike a faerie tale or folk tale, wasn't created to be retold and changed and so on and so forth, I personally am impressed with how faithful they were to the SPIRIT of Hugo's book. Again...just...what's with the gargoyles?

Oh, and HoND2? Does not exist. One of the worst films I have ever seen.

[Jeremy]

And not a happy ending?

But the ending IS happy! Quasimodo gets his freedom (look his happy face in the closing shot) and gets acceptance which was all he wanted in the beginning of the movie. Okay, he didn't got the girl, but that doesn't make the end unhappy!

[Escapay]

[snip]"A Guy Like You" is horrendously out of place...

[snip]

I think that in terms of being faithful to the THEMES of the book, they did a wonderful job.

[snip]

I personally am impressed with how faithful they were to the SPIRIT of Hugo's book. Again...just...what's with the gargoyles?

ITA. The music of HoND is perhaps some of Disney's best, right up there with Mary Poppins, BATB, Aladdin, and Pocahontas. Also, the themes of the book is a great way to describe the movie.

And aren't the gargoyles supposed to represent different parts of Quasi's personality? So while they were extremely unnecessary, they were part of the story. Perhaps it would have worked better if Quasi had imagined himself as "normal", and that "imaginary self" would function as the inner thoughts of Quasimodo rather than some gargoyles that come to life.

Escapay

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

Didn't we have a thread VERY similar to this?

As for the movie, I think I've mentioned it the weakest film of the 44 animated classics, with the exceptions of The Black Cauldron and Oliver and Company.

The songs stunk and the movie was too dark and boring for kids.

[ichabod]

Well I think that Hunchback is an absolute masterpiece. The songs, the drama, the characters are stunning rich and deep. I don't really feel the need to go into a rant, as I have done on soooooooooo many occasions before in many places, including this thread <a href="http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... 0">here</a>

One thing I will whine about again though, is the way some people criticise this film for pathetic reasons. Yes it is different, yes it is dark and not your typical nice, happy, sweet Disney film. But so what? Just because some kids may get frightened, why does that mean it is a bad film? Also just because the songs are not as memorable as "Aladdin" or "Beuaty and the Beast", does that mean they are bad?

The range of emotion, drama the sublety of the music in places is a work of magnificence. The character themes that accompany the action is magical. This is without a doubt Alan Menken's crowning glory. Unlike other films he wrote music for like "Batb", Aladdin" etc, where th songs are more an incidental story break measure, in Hond the music never stops, one song flows into another with perfection, a characters dialogue will slowly lead into a song. In fact a lo t of the dialogue which would ordinarilly be spoken, is put to music The music is the film, the drama of the story and the creative underlying strength of the score are woven into such a rich tapestry that the product is in my minds leagues ahead of other Disney musicals.

Yes, the may not be toe tapping, finger clicking tunes that kids can sing along to, but does that necessarilly mean they are bad? Not all songs exist to be a pop song to learn the words and sing along to. Music can exist solely for itself, to heighten films and lend themselves to a single moment of the film.

However "A Guy Like You", is the most God awful song ever and does take away from the integrity of the film and should have been left out. However why write off a masterpiece because of one blemish? If Da Vinci had painting a cartoon frog on the Mona Lisa, does that deminish the talent and creativity that created the rest of the painting?

[2099net]

As for the movie, I think I've mentioned it the weakest film of the 44 animated classics, with the exceptions of The Black Cauldron and Oliver and Company.

The songs stunk and the movie was too dark and boring for kids.

So, you think it was too dark for children. Here's a radical idea. Don't have young children watch it.

I disagree anyway. I think children should be exposed to darkness. I don't see Hunchback as being any darker than Snow White and people aren't living with grandparents who've been wetting the bed for 70+ years since seeing Snow White.

The songs (with the exception of "A Guy Like You") are great. More than any other Disney film, Hunchback has a soundtrack as opposed to a 'songtrack'.

Hunchback shows children that villains aren't Witches, Kings, Pirates or Stepmothers (incidently, isn't the portrayal of a step-parent more traumatic and dark for children these days with so many broken marriages and re-marriages?).

Hunchback shows that the villains are real people. Either the crowd, or Judge Frollo. Personally, I feel a lot of it's bad press comes down to the fact that Frollo is the villain, but also a religious man. Not something that I imagine would go down well in middle America. But it also shows that real people can be heroes too, being kind and compassionate.

It also shows that looks can be deceptive (Not just Quazi, but Frollo 'looks' like the moral centre of the city, but isn't. And even Chopin isn't the fool he dresses and pretends to be).

I don't mind the gargoyles. I actually wouldn't take them out even if the film was repositioned as an 'adult only' version. I would however make sure that they only came alive when Quazi was alone and didn't influence anything physically. Even in the original book, there's paragraphs were Quazimodo imagines the gargoyles are alive, and his only friends.

I do object to the "A Guy Like You" sequence though. Its totally inapproprite for the film. Or at least, for the film at that point in the narrative. It's a major faux pas.

I don't object to "Hellfire" because little children wouldn't get the lyrics and symbolism at all.

The film does have a happy ending. And its a more realistic ending too than if Quazimodo "got" the girl. I know it sounds off to talk of realism in such a film, but Hunchback isn't a trite moral like the ones found in most 'Princess' movies. It's an appropriate message and conclusion which, hopefully, will make the child think differently about prejudice later in their lives.

But ignoring all that, Hunchback has stunning animation; makes perhaps the best use of lighting and colour tints to express mood than any other Disney animated film; has a literate script with almost stage-like dialogue, but still has enough laughs for the kids; opens with the most dramatic sequence in a Disney animated film ever, and retains the drama and excitement many times throughout and finally has the best backgrounds since Sleeping Beauty.

How can this be a failure?

[streetsofgold]

Ha, thank god u guys hate that "a guy like you" song, it is hurrendous. The "hellfire" sequence is definately disney's darkest animated moment bar none. I also heard it was edited unfortunately? I do like the seriousness of it.


I caught the hunchback 2, it was god awful I agree. Not even jennifer love hewitt could save it

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

So, you think it was too dark for children. Here's a radical idea. Don't have young children watch it.

I disagree anyway. I think children should be exposed to darkness. I don't see Hunchback as being any darker than Snow White and people aren't living with grandparents who've been wetting the bed for 70+ years since seeing Snow White.

The songs (with the exception of "A Guy Like You") are great. More than any other Disney film, Hunchback has a soundtrack as opposed to a 'songtrack'.

Hunchback shows children that villains aren't Witches, Kings, Pirates or Stepmothers (incidently, isn't the portrayal of a step-parent more traumatic and dark for children these days with so many broken marriages and re-marriages?).

Hunchback shows that the villains are real people. Either the crowd, or Judge Frollo. Personally, I feel a lot of it's bad press comes down to the fact that Frollo is the villain, but also a religious man. Not something that I imagine would go down well in middle America. But it also shows that real people can be heroes too, being kind and compassionate.

It also shows that looks can be deceptive (Not just Quazi, but Frollo 'looks' like the moral centre of the city, but isn't. And even Chopin isn't the fool he dresses and pretends to be).

I don't mind the gargoyles. I actually wouldn't take them out even if the film was repositioned as an 'adult only' version. I would however make sure that they only came alive when Quazi was alone and didn't influence anything physically. Even in the original book, there's paragraphs were Quazimodo imagines the gargoyles are alive, and his only friends.

I do object to the "A Guy Like You" sequence though. Its totally inapproprite for the film. Or at least, for the film at that point in the narrative. It's a major faux pas.

I don't object to "Hellfire" because little children wouldn't get the lyrics and symbolism at all.

The film does have a happy ending. And its a more realistic ending too than if Quazimodo "got" the girl. I know it sounds off to talk of realism in such a film, but Hunchback isn't a trite moral like the ones found in most 'Princess' movies. It's an appropriate message and conclusion which, hopefully, will make the child think differently about prejudice later in their lives.

But ignoring all that, Hunchback has stunning animation; makes perhaps the best use of lighting and colour tints to express mood than any other Disney animated film; has a literate script with almost stage-like dialogue, but still has enough laughs for the kids; opens with the most dramatic sequence in a Disney animated film ever, and retains the drama and excitement many times throughout and finally has the best backgrounds since Sleeping Beauty.

How can this be a failure?

Okay I guess kids don't have to watch it!

But still it really wouldn't be that entertaining for kids you have to admit that.

Hunchback has the "best" Disney soundtrack? Wow! I really have to disagree with that. Of all of Alan Menkan's scores, this is the only one that I felt repeated itself over and over again. In fact it got rather annoying. As for the songs, aside from the brilliant "Hellfire" they were all pretty bad IMO. Especially "God Help the Outcast"! I guess I just don't like gospel music.

The animation was brilliant? Yup, totally agree with you, but then again the package films had brilliant animation, "The Black Cauldron had brilliant animation, even "Home on the Range" had really good animation, so saying a film has brilliant animation isn't saying that much.

The pacing was awful. First it was too serious, then it was too light, then back to being dark so it didn't have a specific target in which in wanted to go.

None of the characters were really that likeable. To quote what UD member, Raydwaggie once said about Quasi, "We get it! Your ugly! Stop your whinning!" Not to mention Esmeralda was really not likeable at all. In fact during the whole movie, I was rooting for Frollo since he was the only character that was interesting, and sung a brilliant song.

Finally to answer the question, "How can this be a failure". To answer your question, I think Disney was in trouble the moment they thought of adapting Vigtor Hugo's story. I mean the whole style of the play was so dark, there was almost no way to make it targeted to kids without keeping it true to the story. While the end result isn't a complete bore, the film disappoints music wise and story wise.

[castleinthesky]

I propose we merge this thread with this one: http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

[Jeremy]

THOND is in my top 3 of Disney classics. It's nearly perfect. And could be little darker and longer if you ask me. Songs are great exept for "A Guy Like You" but I can stand it, too.
When I read the book I was disappointed how different the movie was. But I have said earlier somewhere that this version is as perfect as it can be for a Disney film because it is clear that Disney had to do a LOT of compromises with the story to squeeze it to 1,5 hours AND to be suitable for kids.
There isn't lot of things I would change in it if I was to decide what kind of movie I want to made of this subject to suit for kids and be 1,5 hours long. They did brilliant job!

[PatrickvD]

I don't mind the gargoyles. I actually wouldn't take them out even if the film was repositioned as an 'adult only' version. I would however make sure that they only came alive when Quazi was alone and didn't influence anything physically. Even in the original book, there's paragraphs were Quazimodo imagines the gargoyles are alive, and his only friends.

that's exactly how I feel. The Gargoyles should have been part of Quasimodo's imagination. Having them interact with other characters made it weak. it would have been a lot more interesting if they weren't real, only in Quasi's world. And that song was indeed over the top, out of place and just plain stupid. Other than that, it's a fantastic film.

I hate how some people find Hunchback too dark for children. The darkest thing Disney's ever done is like what, Pirates? and even that film is in my opinion great for kids. And each kid is different, if you know your child is easily scared, don't let 'm see the movie. Hunchback is not dark and kids understand a LOT more than we think, they're not stupid.

[Prince Eric]

Well, I really don't understand Timon/Pumba's arguement, even though I dislike the film myself. A movie doesn't have to have "likeable" characters and an animated film doesn't alway have to be "happy" to be good. If children don't like it, who cares? That's really not saying anything.

I don't like the movie because I think the script is absolutely horrible. The dialogue between the gargoyals is pretty inane and the three characters are unidentifiable. I liked that clown gypy guy the best. That tells you something: when a perifory characters steals the show from ALL three leads, you know you have a problem. If you want to dark, you have to be consistent. You can't just have comic relief for the sake of having comic relief. It's detract from the drama, yes, but for the WRONG reasons.

The score is pretty good, but the songs are way over-the-top. I think Alan Menken pretty much hit his peak in 1989-1995. That's OK. All artists have their peak years. No one can hit it out of the park every single time. I think it would help if he just retired for about ten years and THEN come back with another hit score.

[Disney-Fan]

That's OK. All artists have their peak years. No one can hit it out of the park every single time.

Except if you recieve an invitation to Pixar Studios, there no wrong can be done!

[Prince Eric]

That's OK. All artists have their peak years. No one can hit it out of the park every single time.

Except if you recieve an invitation to Pixar Studios, there no wrong can be done!

Pixar is a creative team. No single person is responsible for their success. Each film has a different director.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

Well, I really don't understand Timon/Pumba's arguement, even though I dislike the film myself. A movie doesn't have to have "likeable" characters and an animated film doesn't alway have to be "happy" to be good. If children don't like it, who cares? That's really not saying anything.

I guess your right, we just need to add a few more unlikeable characters, since who watches the movie to watch characters WE LIKE!?!

I never said the film had to be more happy, but it is a family film, and while some adults may love it, it really wasn't a good kids film!

I hate how some people find Hunchback too dark for children. The darkest thing Disney's ever done is like what, Pirates? and even that film is in my opinion great for kids. And each kid is different, if you know your child is easily scared, don't let 'm see the movie. Hunchback is not dark and kids understand a LOT more than we think, they're not stupid.

I agree! All kids are different. However what I said was "it was too dark or too boring for kids". I mean there was not enough action to keep a kid entertain IMO!

I've been to alot of schools and overheard many kids say great things about, "The Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast", "Aladdin", "The Lion King" and GET THIS! "Pocahontas"! Yup that same movie most of the world hates because of it's inaccuracy, is actually admired by several kids of different age groups(including some my own age). Yet I have yet to hear someone even mention "The Hunchback". Now does a bunch of bratty kid's opinions proove this film is bad? No! But it prooves my point that it wasn't a good family film, and since alot of kids don't like it, Disney just failed it's target with this one which is just one of the many flaws I find with the Hunchback!

I actually find "Pirates" to be a better kids movie than "Hunchback" because at least it had enough action to keep them entertained!

[GhostHost]

disney needs to make another serious and powerful animated film such as HOND, BATB, and the Lion King. Unfortenately, it looks like it will not come anytime soon .

[Chris]

While I agree that it's kind of off balance in the way they put comical characters like the Gargoyles in the same film that had some dark adult moments like "Hell Fire", it's still one of the most touching and beautiful films in the recent past of Disney. The score is beyond gorgeous and it still brings me to tears.

I wish that the song "Someday" would have been included within and not just used in the end credits. I know there were good reasons for not including another somber ballad, but it's just too beautiful to be left out.

Chris

[creid]

I guess your right, we just need to add a few more unlikeable characters, since who watches the movie to watch characters WE LIKE!?!

I would tend disagree that we have to like the characters we see on the screen. The audience has to identify the characters but not necessarily like them. However, with family entertainment, in which the HOND is, it does certainly help to like the characters.

I remember seeing HOND in the theaters with my now wife, and we left saying "HUH?" It mixes some mature themes of burning sexual desire with talking gargoyles. (I don't care if they are in his dreams or not, I thought they were stupid.) So I never could accept the tone of the movie and thought it was a complete misfire.

[bunnieeprincess]

its definitely disneys darkest movie. it seems that children (for whom most disney movies are made) wouldnt really understand the REAL meaning. I thought the soundtrack was fantastic, with the exception of "a guy like you" the score was awesome and the singing voice of frollo is excellent