The Little Mermaid III Discussion Vol. 2

[jeremy88]

What really seems odd to me though, is that in the first movie it doesn't even seem like Ariel cares that much about music. She forgets her own musical concerto debut! So much for loving music lol. Not to say she doesn't appeciate music, but it seems like in this movie her one and only passion is music, and I think thats where it kind of strikes a bad chord with fans of the first film.

[Atlantis]

^I don't he's so much as giving us reasons to hate the film, but rather questioning Peggy's philosophy behind her film and her portrayal of Ariel's love for music.)

(Though I could be totally wrong, if so, sorry Disney Duster )

Exactly. Sure Ariel likes to sing but it was never that important to her. Adventures and the world above is what interested Ariel and what she spent most of her time doing. In the first 2 movies and even the series, music was never the main driving force for any of the charecters. To say that it is so important to Ariel in the prequel that roughly takes place a year before the film is not that great of a scenario.

[Disney's Divinity]

From what little I've read about this movie, the focus seems to be much moreso on Triton's unreasonable standards. Ariel seems to love music, but it's not simply about her love for music. It's about showing her father that it's wrong to restrict the entire sea because of his unpleasant past. Which is the same as in the first. Her not being at the original's concert does not take away from the importance of this at all. This is about Ariel's love for freedom and the right to be and do what you want without someone else (her father) saying it's wrong just because they think it is. From my point of view, Ariel's simply doing what noone in the rest of the sea has the guts to do.

I think being different is fine, but the very idea of music being banned is just so preposterous that its just too lame to base a whole movie on. the suggested story line is at least easier to grasp.

It's not that preposterous. Didn't the Puritans once ban music? Haven't certain governments banned particular types of music at one time or another (Newsies)? Like I said before, the idiocy of the idea is all traced back to Triton's unreasonable expectations for everyone around him.

[Princess Forever]

Just a quick note on the wholte giving up her voice for love thing--it seems that ppl see it as somewhat positive on Ariel's part, sacrificing for love, but in the original story, the Prince couldn't love the mermaid turned human as an equal because she had no "voice", whereas his future bride did (voice not just being the ability to talk, but to reason, argue, debate, etc).
As for TLM3, I hope Athena's death isn't gruesome ><; I always hate how the mothers are killed off, either onscreen or beforehand. Why not have parents that have seperated but then get back together?

[xxhplinkxx]

As for TLM3, I hope Athena's death isn't gruesome ><; I always hate how the mothers are killed off, either onscreen or beforehand. Why not have parents that have seperated but then get back together?

"So, uh, your mother and I are getting divorced so I'm gonna outlaw music in the entire ocean...."


Hmm.... doesn't seem to have as much of an impact, don't ya think?

[Atlantis]

As for TLM3, I hope Athena's death isn't gruesome ><; I always hate how the mothers are killed off, either onscreen or beforehand. Why not have parents that have seperated but then get back together?

Its Disney, how many grusome deaths do you see in disney movies? How many deaths do you see in general?

[Siren]

As for TLM3, I hope Athena's death isn't gruesome ><; I always hate how the mothers are killed off, either onscreen or beforehand. Why not have parents that have seperated but then get back together?

Its Disney, how many grusome deaths do you see in disney movies? How many deaths do you see in general?

You mean to tell me you never saw the deleted scene from Bambi? After his mother got shot, the hunters gutted her, mounted her head and had her for dinner. Not to mention the vultures' short work of Mufasa.

[Vermin Friends]

This may sound stupid, but maybe, MAYBE there's a scene with Ursula or whatever in the deleted scenes.
We know there are some deleted scenes, so maybe Ursula is in them, because the creators of the movie didn't want the new and young audience to be distracted from AB by bringing in Ursula for like two minutes.

Maybe.

Oh, and maybe the mermaid who's jumping out of the water (which is Ariel, I'm sure) is also a deleted scene

Or maybe these two scenes are after the credits.

Man, I wish. But, the official list of deleted scenes has been posted a while back, and unless they somehow find a way to include Ursula into "Sebastian Waking The Girls" or "Ariel Follows Flounder", it seems highly unlikely.

[Old Fish Tale]

Vermin Friends, have you seen this and that?

[Vermin Friends]

Oh yeah, I forgot to reply to them. First of all, thanks so much for sharing them! It's always great to see some HQ stills. Although I've seen some of them, they're still great. I'm really confused with the "Shake Senora" scene. Are they using the original scene that was featured on the Platinum Edition, or are they using the newer version, featured in the 5 minute preview, the trailer, etc.

They seem to be promoting the older version a lot more, though. They used it on the website before the new version of the website was created (remember when it was just Ariel looking at the music box, with two of the sisters in the background?), as the thumbnail for the sneak peek (on the new version of the website), and now one of the HQ stills. Hmm...

edit: I have one more question for Poody, that is if he or she doesn't mind answering it. Is the opening to TLM3 accurate to the storyboard that was released here a while ago?

[Princess Forever]

I didn't mean Ariel's parents should have been seperated, I just meant that almost every set of parents has a mother that has died, seems a little much after awhile.
And as for what I meant by gruesome, I didn't mean it had to be shown for me to still consider it that. I thougt Bambi's mom's death was such, even though it didn't show it, because I have seen real deer hunts on TV. I also found Clayton's death to be disturbing, even though he was a villian.
So, if Athena is killed by a pirate, or harpooned, or anything like that, it will probably make me wince a bit :/

[Ariel'sprince]

I agree with you.
Maybe she should have gone to land and didn't came back or got hurt by humans insted of killing her?,can Ariel forgive humans even if they killed her mother?.
Anyway,I only read the beginning of the coloring book and I noticed it's very much like Finding Nemo (Spoilers?):


















The parents goes to a open place and they"re with their children and the father gives the mother a gift (Marlin gives Coral a new home,Triton gives Athena a music box),they get attacked by something evil (Baracuda in Finding Nemo,pirates in Ariel's Beginning),the mothers goes to defened something importent to her from the evil thing (Coral goes to defened her children from the Baracuda,Athena goes to rescue her music box from the pirates),they both fail and dies,the father stays away/bans something (Marlin stay away from the ocean,Triton bans music in Atlantica),years later their child runs away because of their fathers (Nemo runs away to toch a boat,Ariel runs away to bring music back to Atlantica) but it goes different from here (Nemo gets kidnapped by a diver and Marlin goes to save him,Ariel bring music to Atlantica and save the day).

[Siren]

Can Ariel forgive the humans for killing her mother? Yes. Eric didn't kill her. Neither did Grimsby, or any of the humans in the castle. One group of humans took Athena away from them. Its like saying if someone of a different race, religion, culture, etc killed your family member, would you then hate all of them?

Mind you, some people feel that way. You still hear of stories today of for instance, animal attacks, and that person hating ALL the animals of that particular species. Some people would rather blame an entire species/race for the actions of one or a few than to see the truth, that the other humans had nothing to do with it.

Gargoyles explored that very idea. Goliath had no problem with other humans. He didn't trust many of them, but he didn't hate them either. Where as Demona blamed all of humanity for the death of her clan. She was blinded by her own denial.

I find it totally believable that humans killed Athena and Ariel still likes human things and Triton hates them. Everyone grieves differently. Perhaps if Ariel was older when her mother died, she would be more fearful of them. The movies aren't this deep, but perhaps her fascination with humans stems from trying to get an answer on WHY they killed her mother.

[Ariel'sprince]

But... her mother.
I know that neither Eric or anyone at his castle killed Athena but shouldn't she be still mad at them? or she can just hate pirates insted of all humans?.
Still,it's her mother.

[PeterPanfan]

From watching the first film, it appears that only Triton is angered, and I guess, frightened of humans. Ariel makes no mention about being scared or angry at/of them.

[Ariel'sprince]

Maybe because she didn't knew her mother enough she doesn't hate humans? and maybe she later understand that some humans are bad but some are good like Eric?.

[PeterPanfan]

I think she's always understood that, considering the fact that she was never scared of humans in any of the films.

[Atlantis]

Its Disney, how many grusome deaths do you see in disney movies? How many deaths do you see in general?

You mean to tell me you never saw the deleted scene from Bambi? After his mother got shot, the hunters gutted her, mounted her head and had her for dinner. Not to mention the vultures' short work of Mufasa.

nope never heard or seen about the deleted scene. But I doubt Disney would ever show someone who looks human to be killed.

I think Ariel was to young to know everything that was going on around the time of her mothers death. Plus with her father forbidding her to ever go to the surface only peaked her curosity even more. Though this would never happen, since I assume we dont see a body or a grave or anything, Athena could still be alive. Maybe the pirates sold her to a traveling circus/freak show. Its far fetched I know but just a thought.

[Disney Duster]

Thanks for defending me, yukitora!

Anyway, Disney's Divinity, first off, it's arguable Eric loved Ariel for her voice. It does seem he could have loved her for rescuing him, and her voice. But, the idea was that Ariel could get the prince to love her without her voice, somehow her personality, her true self to be loved, would shine through. Whether Eric's kiss would be of true love in that lagoon is a mystery, Ursula probably just didn't want any chance of it so she stopped it. But when Eric is enchanted when he hears the voice in Vanessa, an disenchanted when he hears the voice in Ariel, it's evidence he will only love the combination of the girl who rescued him and the voice, and perhaps the girl he's been with and been happy with for three days. Or, it's just Ariel!

Also, I want movies' plots to touch on the original films' plots. You see, more people were complaining that a lot of movies just repeated the same exact plot in reverse, or flip-flopped, or just with different characters. That's what The Little Mermaid II did. What I, and I think a lot of people want is a plot that deals with the same things that happened in the first film, and is close to as powerful as the first film, but the same exact events don't happen. Or maybe I wouldn't even mind something that has events similar to the original, but are still different. Ursula made who knows how many similar deals with other merpeople before Ariel. What if Athena wanted to see the human world, and Ursula decides to grant her wish if she signs a contract trading her right to the throne. EDIT: Well, she wouldn't give up being queen, maybe just trade the ability to use the trident, whatever power Athena has to use the trident, read on, you'll see why. So Ursula takes Athena to the surface when a ship comes by, and in a spell full of magical light flashes that looks like a lightning storm to the humans, Athena is transformed into a rare fish. The humans capture it, and it is so rare they intend to keep it alive in a bowl, and Athena gets to see the human world in a way she never wanted. Ursula goes back to tell the kingdom Athena was captured by the humans, skipping the turning into a fish part, and they don't know what the humans would do with a mermaid, so they believe it. Ursula can't just take the throne, but the trident, which is needed to control the sea, can't work without a king and a queen. She convinces Triton to let her be queen, perhaps by demonstrating only she is able to work the trident with him (as in Triton chose Athena partly because she had some ability to work the trident...sort of like fitting the glass slipper. Let's call it "her love of the sea", which makes sense, since she would give up love of the sea to be with humans). She casts spells on Triton to let her use the trident and rule the kingdom however she wants. The kingdom is unhappy under her rule, but then Ariel sets out to prove her father doesn't have to keep Ursula, and should remember her mother, and not be emotionless, and eventually Triton learns to remember and let his emotions out over his wife, and keeping his wife in his heart lets him control the trident from then on, 'cause it's like the queen's still with him, and Ursula is banished, especially since they discover she used spells on him (and she was mostly only able to because he was vulnerable).

And of course Ariel could spend a good deal remembering her mother, then discovering more about her and what happened to her, before she tries to get her father to do the same. Maybe she finds out her mother secretly loved human things, which makes her think that's how she got to the surface to get killed, but her mother writes in a secret diary (I know, I know...) that one time a child fishing caught her tail with a hook, and she realized humans aren't bad, they're just like us, but they could accidentally harm merpeople (maybe she tries to tell Triton, but once he hears she got "snared by a fish-eaters hook", he starts getting too emotional, angry or sad or both). So Ariel realizes her mother could have accidentally gotten killed by humans, and starts liking and getting interested in humans. She tries to tell her dad, but he refuses to talk about how Athena died, just how she lived, the happy memories. So that's why they don't talk about it afterward.

If Athena being a fish in a bowl or tank until she dies doesn't sit well, consider Ursula turns her into a wooden mermaid on the prow of the ship, so she can "see" the human world. It's like the sleeping death, dead but still alive. The movie flashes forward to after Ariel and Eric are married (and after Melody I guess), and Triton recognizes the mermaid on the bow of one of Eric's ships. With a wave of his trident, she's Athena again. Everyone rejoices at her return. It's a very tearful reunion for Triton, Ariel, and her sisters. The movie is a prequel with a little sequel, and comes full circle. It could even be the mermaid on the bow of the ship in the original movie, fitting in even more with the original classic.

Maybe you still don't get what I mean, but anyway, I liked The Little Mermaid II and will most likely like it better than this prequel, because at least it actually talked of Ursula and the seperation and joining of the land and the sea. Yes it was very much like the original film in many ways. Well...yea, I liked the original, so I'd like something like the original.

[Atlantis]

Thats a good idea and would have made an ineresting movie. If you are a writer you should definatly do a fanfic about it.

And who knows, maybe Athena escaped the pirates, was very weak, ran into Ursula who added her to her garden of lost souls. But I guess that wouldnt work since she would have been released after Ursula died.

The thing is, the Little Mermaid movie gave itself a good mythology to further explore. There are so many stories to still be told to help give us more insight and help add to the original.