X-Men Origins: Wolverine

Mooky · Post by **Mooky** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:30 am

Wolverine 2 is on the way:

http://www.moviehole.net/200918879-wolv ... -confirmed

I like what Fox is doing with these movies... X-Men series is going to be huge:
- X-Men Origins: Wolverine
- X-Men Origins: Wolverine 2
- X-Men Origins: Magneto
- X-Men Origins: First Class
- X-Men Origins: First Class 2
- X-Men Origins: First Class 3
- X-Men
- X2: X-Men United
- X-Men: The Last Stand
- and possible Deadpool and Gambit spin-offs

Hopefully they won't lack in quality... And I hope they give us X4, X5 & X6 after they're done with prequels.

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:38 am

I'll think you'll find the abundance of Origins films - especially "First Class" is basically an acknowledgement that they screwed-over/up the "franchise" with X3.

Good lord. How X3 ever got approved is beyond me.

The fact that they have to in effect ignore it for the next decade or so of films just confirms that to me. X3 killed the "ongoing" X-Men franchise.

Mooky · Post by **Mooky** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:59 am

I don't think that's the problem... It's just that the budget for X4 would have to be enormous, and there'd be scheduling conflicts for the main cast. Not to mention it's easier to cast five unknowns for the prequels than pay $ 20 million each to Jackman, Berry and Co. for an X4. Fox is probably waiting to see how well prequels do before they start working on the sequels.

And X3 left it open for future movies... There are countless possibilities they could explore now... Professor X is very much alive, Cyclops most likely isn't dead, Jean is well, Phoenix, the Cure is only temporary...

Most of the folks who hated/were disappointed with X3 were comic-book fans... You'll find that it has a very solid rating of 7/10 on IMDb, so general audiences really liked it (for comparison, X1 has a 7.4 rating and X2 has a 7.8 rating).

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:19 am

Yeah, well, I'm a comic fan.

X3 is a total disaster. It's reeks of something being put out simply because Fox wanted something out, rather than Fox wanting to tell a story. It's a prime example of why "franchise" film series are bad. All that mattered was getting a product out for the time Fox execs wanted. So loose Singer, loose Vaughn, pull in Ratner (who is not a good director), fiddle about with the plot, introduce more new characters (while "killing off" some existing characters without even letting them do anything in this film - gotta shift those action figures).

Lots of people liked Transformers, but that was one of the worst films I've seen in years. Some people just can't get past the effects.

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:27 am

As long as Halle "What's an ensemble cast?" Berry has no involvement whatsoever, anything the franchise does from this point on will be okay by me.

Mooky · Post by **Mooky** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:40 am

2099net wrote:Yeah, well, I'm a comic fan.

X3 is a total disaster. It's reeks of something being put out simply because Fox wanted something out, rather than Fox wanting to tell a story. It's a prime example of why "franchise" film series are bad. All that mattered was getting a product out for the time Fox execs wanted. So loose Singer, loose Vaughn, pull in Ratner (who is not a good director), fiddle about with the plot, introduce more new characters (while "killing off" some existing characters without even letting them do anything in this film - gotta shift those action figures).

Lots of people liked Transformers, but that was one of the worst films I've seen in years. Some people just can't get past the effects.

Yeah, well, so am I, but I loved it

!

I loved the story, the character dynamics, the score... Even though he was barely in the movie, James Marsden was Cyclops in this movie, not some wimp who's following Jean around (no offense, Chris!), Halle Berry was finally Storm (both in actions and dialogue), Famke Janssen got all the best scenes in the movie, they pulled off the Phoenix persona amazingly well without resorting to fantasy elements (keeping it in line with the realism of previous movies)... I could go on and on... The only thing I'd agree with haters is the lack of Cyclops in the final Phoenix/Logan confrontation, it would have made the story much deeper. Still, to me, the pluses outweigh the minuses and I give it a 8.5-9/10. X2 is by far the best movie in the series, but X3 will always be my favorite.

But I agree with you on Transformers, that was a pure waste of film stock... And it crapped on the source material even more than X3 did...

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:45 am

mooky_7_sa wrote:Even though he was barely in the movie, James Marsden was Cyclops in this movie, not some wimp who's following Jean around.

...He wasn't some wimp just following Jean around, yeah, he was some wimp moping about Jean for ten minutes, then dying / not dying / not to appear ever again. I'm not sure how his emo 'tude made him more Cyclopsian than either of the previous movies.

mooky_7_sa wrote:But I agree with you on Transformers, that was a pure waste of film stock... And it crapped on the source material even more than X3 did...

...The source material being toys? Most fans I know of Transformers were pretty okay with the movie, myself included. Sure, there were stupid moments ("Optimus, Jazz was killed!" "...Meh"), but it's a big explosive movie based on toys. It's kind of hard to desecrate too much of the source.

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:01 am

I suspect he means the cartoon series, and the animated Transformers movie, which (believe it or not) was an awesome, high-concept 'proper' sci-fi movie - which happened to be animated and based on toys. I cannot express how much imagination, thought and general all-around pride and care went into the animated Transformers movie. There's more creativity in 5 minutes of the animated movie than the whole, drawn out "live action" movie.

And as for a movie being based on toys, do you think that makes the piss and masturbation jokes okay in the Transformers movie?

Going back to X3, it was bound to fail, just as Spider-Man 3 was bound to fail (although to a lesser extent). If you want "realism" then don't have a Phoenix storyline. There's literally hundreds of storylines from hundreds of X-Men comics without resorting to the Phoenix story. Just like Venom had no place in a Spider-Man movie. It's because the filmmakers (and no doubt Marvel itself) in more concerned about pushing their brands and trademarks than telling stories consistent with the universe the movies create.

Just like Venom was put into Spider-Man 3 (remember talk of a Venom spin-off movie? Good gravy, the character has no character - Venom is a non-entity and they wanted to "seed" Venom in Spider-Man 3 so they could make a Venom movie?), X3 is basically going through the motions, waving a flag for the trademarks, but doing NOTHING remotely intelligent or interesting with them.

Mooky · Post by **Mooky** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:06 am

SpringHeelJack wrote:...He wasn't some wimp just following Jean around, yeah, he was some wimp moping about Jean for ten minutes, then dying / not dying / not to appear ever again. I'm not sure how his emo 'tude made him more Cyclopsian than either of the previous movies.

"We don't all heal as fast as you Logan"... That line was more Cyclopsian than anything he said in X2. The guy who was okay with being called a dick by a newcomer in X1 was not Cyclops.

SpringHeelJack wrote:...The source material being toys? Most fans I know of Transformers were pretty okay with the movie, myself included. Sure, there were stupid moments ("Optimus, Jazz was killed!" "...Meh"), but it's a big explosive movie based on toys. It's kind of hard to desecrate too much of the source.

Like 2099net said, the source material being the '80s show... Yes, I know, it's not much more intellectual than few action figures, but still... And I'm not most fans so I wasn't okay with it... It had no story whatsoever, unless *Boom! Bang! Boom!* is considered a story. It was a 2.5 hours commercial for GM (why even call Bumblebee Bumblebee when he's a Camarro and not a VW beetle in the movie?). Robots were barely in the movie AND they looked like crap. It had Megan Fox in it. It was a propaganda piece for the US army ("You're a soldier now, boy!")... The list goes on and on... This commercial is a better Transformers movie than what we got in 2007.

2099net wrote:If you want "realism" then don't have a Phoenix storyline

There was no way to continue the Phoenix story (started in X2, btw) and use the cosmic force/Shi'ar empire without it looking ridiculous. It would have been the equivalent of Batman Forever following Batman Returns.

xxhplinkxx · Post by **xxhplinkxx** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:43 pm

SpringHeelJack wrote:As long as Halle "What's an ensemble cast?" Berry has no involvement whatsoever, anything the franchise does from this point on will be okay by me.

And not to mention, I hope the realize the films are called X-Men, not "The Many Adventures of Wolverine"

And, hello! There would have been nothing wrong with the Shi'ar Empire! We accepted it in the comics, why wouldn't we accept it in the film? It's no more ridiculous than genetically enhanced mutants, or guys fighting crime in tights and a cape! Did that stop people from watching the film? No!

As for Spidey 3, I wouldn't say that Venom didn't belong, they just should have done it the right way. And whoever had the idea to cast Topher Grace as Eddie Brock... I really hope they got fired. If a moron like that has a position in this industry... *shudders*

2099net · Post by **2099net** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:24 pm

But how would you do Venom in the right way? He literally has no character. He's a nothing. I've never understood why he was so popular in the comics - and even changing Venom into some form of warped vigilante (as in his many mini-series) didn't help the character. Now it appears Venom's just lost in the crowd as Marvel introduces more and more symbiotes, and neglects the original.

Combine that with the fact it would be almost impossible to do an origin story for Venom which does make sense - no non-comic Venom origin has really had any credibility (and I'll include Ultimate Venom in that) you can see why the whole thing was doomed to failure. I hear Sam Rami had/has no interest in Venom, and I don't blame him.

As for Phoenix, I repeat again - don't do the story.

Would it have really have been a disaster to have no Jean Grey for a film or two? It's not as if they were short of characters. They introduced the Beast in X3, and criminally underused him. They could introduce other characters. They could still have the odd Phoenix hint and pick it up later, when more ground work could have been made, and they could easily do a Phoenix story without the Phoenix force.

Of course the main problem is Fox simply couldn't wait, and allow Singer to do his Superman movie and then come back to the X-men. And that's sad - that's everything that's wrong with film franchises; the opening date, pushing for and attaining that opening week slot where hopefully you have little or no competition, even if only for 1 week, so you can boast about record openings. I see nobody at Fox or Marvel boasted about the actual quality of the film they spent millions upon millions of dollars making.

Mooky · Post by **Mooky** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm

xxhplinkxx wrote:And, hello! There would have been nothing wrong with the Shi'ar Empire! We accepted it in the comics, why wouldn't we accept it in the film? It's no more ridiculous than genetically enhanced mutants, or guys fighting crime in tights and a cape! Did that stop people from watching the film? No!

I'd normally agree with you and I would personally like to see a different take on the X-Men, but X3 only followed the "realistic" route set by X1 and X2 - there were no colorful costumes, no mention of any alien species, no magic/fantasy stuff in either of those. If anyone should be blamed it's Bryan Singer for setting that kind of tone for his X-movies in the first place. But I won't blame him, because I think it worked extremely well for the X-Men.

It's like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight - these movies have built a style of their own (one I don't particularly like), they're too grounded in realism and no one can confuse them with neither Burton's nor Schumacher's films. Imagine what would happen if Nolan opted for a more comic-booky feel for Batman 3 (by comic-booky, I mean green girls who can talk to plants or guys changing their bodies into clay)... Everyone would tear it apart for not fitting with the existing BB/TDK universe.

And speaking of Batman 3, I wonder will it be the movie to finally break the Third Movie Curse and get to be better than previous installments and loved by fans and critics alike.

PeterPanfan · Post by **PeterPanfan** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:26 pm

xxhplinkxx wrote:
And not to mention, I hope the realize the films are called X-Men, not "The Many Adventures of Wolverine[/b]"

THANK YOU! Seriously. Wolverine is in the running for my LEAST favorite character!

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:55 pm

Hmm, so here's one question that came to mind then.

So you know how you can actually see Wraith being murdered by Victor?

Well how come in the end, you see that Weapon XI has that same power, the teleporting from place to place? How come that would be possible if all the other mutants had to be alive on the island in order for their powers to be stolen?

That didn't make sense to me... hopefully it does to someone else?

xxhplinkxx · Post by **xxhplinkxx** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:02 pm

Did you not see when Sabretooth had the needle and took a sample from Wraith?

Do you just not pay attention when you watch movies?

drfsupercenter · Post by **drfsupercenter** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:19 pm

Oh, I didn't catch that.

And I pay attention... the thing is, there's always tons of stuff to pay attention to... usually I get drawn in on the action and not focus on the little stuff - like what's in someone's hand.

xxhplinkxx · Post by **xxhplinkxx** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:50 pm

drfsupercenter wrote:not focus on the little stuff - like what's in someone's hand.

Little stuff? LITTLE STUFF?!

THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE F****** SHOT! TO SEE EXACTLY THAT!

xxhplinkxx · Post by **xxhplinkxx** » Wed May 06, 2009 2:10 pm

So, not only is Wolverine getting a sequel, but it's been confirmed that Deadpool is getting his own spin-off as well!

Good, cause we didn't get to see nearly enough of Ryan's Wade. (I'm not being sarcastic)

PeterPanfan · Post by **PeterPanfan** » Wed May 06, 2009 2:13 pm

Is the Magneto and X-Men "Teenage Years" movies still in the works?

xxhplinkxx · Post by **xxhplinkxx** » Wed May 06, 2009 3:14 pm

It's called X-Men: First Class, and yes, they're still happening as far as we know.

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