Miscellaneous Film/TV Discussion

[Escapay]

Flower Drum Song has not aged very well in a variety of respects - the storyline, the characterizations, the third wheeling of Helen Chao - but I always enjoyed it for its multi-generational depiction of the Asian-American experience. I'm first-generation Filipino, born and raised here, so I identify a lot with the younger brother (Wang San), who's fully assimilated into American culture because it's the only one he knows. And even as I got older, I recognized more of how Wang Ta represented that slightly older generation, those born in Asia and moved abroad as children - essentially between two worlds. And it's more or less influenced me to learn more about my heritage as a result. Of course, my parents were not as fresh off the boat as the elders of Flower Drum Song, but I can recognize their desire to keep their homeland culture alive within the New World. The way the film captures those three generations is really what keeps the film watchable for me. It's like holding the mirror up to my past, decades before I existed, and recognizing that these kind of struggles still happen today.

As for the ending, I always thought it fit perfectly for what the characters go through. Mei Li, who began the film as a culture-shocked illegal immigrant, plays the ace card of a very usable legal loophole that she learned from a frickin' television. She's gone from the passive, subdued bride-to-be that does what's expected into someone who eventually learns how to take control of her life and get what she wants. The deportation issue seems less severe then than it does now, and it would benefit Mei Li more to marry Wang Ta since his aunt would know the ins-and-outs of gaining citizenship. So the marriages working out with the right partners (Mei Li/Wang, Linda/Sammy) for the romantic aspect of the ending, but also for the practical, pragmatic purpose of what would happen to these characters afterwards.

Finally, the film holds a special place in my heart since it's the first Hollywood studio production (Universal) with a majority of Asian/Asian-American performers, which unfortunately has only been repeated twice since: 1993's The Joy Luck Club (Hollywood Pictures/Disney) and 2018's Crazy Rich Asians (Warner Bros.). Although we've seen Asian-centered films made in America (Better Luck Tomorrow, The Debut, White Frog), they're almost always indie projects that get picked up, so they never have the same widespread coverage as a Hollywood studio film. For historical purposes, Flower Drum Song should be viewed within that context of Hollywood 1961: nobody saw Asians on the screen unless it was a supporting role, or a solitary role among white actors. One of the biggest film successes of 1937 was The Good Earth, which starred two European actors - Paul Muni and Luise Rainer - in yellowface as the very Chinese characters Wang Lung and O-Lan. While their performances are great (Rainer won her second Oscar for it), it's still very uncomfortable to watch in the years that followed, especially given that MGM refused to cast Anna Mae Wong (then the States' biggest Chinese American star) as O-Lan. To go from yellowfaced actors to an entire film made up entirely of Asian/Asian-American actors shows a remarkable leap forward. Unfortunately, the fact that it took 24 years between The Good Earth and Flower Drum Song, and then 32 years between Flower Drum Song and The Joy Luck Club, and yet another 25 years between The Joy Luck Club and Crazy Rich Asians shows we still have a long way to go.

Albert

[UmbrellaFish]

Thank you for sharing your personal relationship with Flower Drum Song and the way you connect to the Wang sons— I was actually really interested by the contrast in these two brothers who are both Americanized, but to different extents. And thank you for speaking to the historical significance of Flower Drum Song in regards to its casting of Asian actors in a majority of the roles. I glossed over that in my review, but I agree it is important to remember the historical context when watching this film— it is especially strange to realize Flower Drum Song, which treats its Asian characters with such respect and humanity and not as alien “others,” was released the same year as Breakfast at Tiffany’s.

To me, the deportation plot sours a musical which until that point in the story was just a lesser entry in the R&H canon (there’s a distinct feeling throughout of R&H trying to keep their finger on the pulse of modern society, the slang, the rock and roll dancing, all the television stuff, and it’s a bit like watching your grandpa fumble with his iPhone). I don’t know what I would have thought about that plot before 2016 (it’s entirely possible I would not have thought as severely of it! Rewatching many classic movies now which I saw as a preteen or teenager, I can’t believe how much racism, sexism and general injustice/inequality in those movies I sort of just... didn’t recognize), or if I’d been around to see the movie in the 60’s (although I can’t help but think the threat of deportation should never have been treated in such a blasé way). But today I feel like it’s definitely another botched job in a movie that isn’t aging gracefully.

It was sad to me when I realized that I recognized Jack Soo’s face only because he played a nameless Chinatown henchman in Thoroughly Modern Millie. I was sad because this man had a lot of talent, and yet the only other movie I know him from came out 6 years after his star turn in Flower Drum Song and there he was cast as a wordless sidekick. I wish he could have been in more films (and better ones) but I’m glad his fine performance was recorded for posterity in Flower Drum Song.

It’s a complicated legacy, for sure.

[Disney's Divinity]

For some reason I thought Dark Phoenix had its own thread in Disney Discussion, but apparently it didn't.

I'm really surprised and saddened this film didn't really do well especially now that I've seen and mostly enjoyed it. I don't think it was any worse than the average superhero film. I still think audiences simply have PTSD from The Last Stand having been so awful and they didn't want anything to do with a new version of the Phoenix storyline. Maybe it's because I was comparing it to The Last Stand the whole time that I could enjoy it? This was eons better than that film. I particularly loved Jean's last shot with Chastain's character holding her by the neck as they're flying upwards into space. And it felt like an end to the X-Men films even though it probably won't be (I know there's the new The New Mutants movie, although that sounds more like an offshoot than a direct sequel?). Even the ending with Magneto and Xavier with the chess set made me think of the first X-Men when Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart are playing chess in Magneto's padded cell.

I've liked the reset version with the new actors more than the older one, personally... Superhero films have changed so much from when I was growing up with X2 and Spider-Man 2, which were the "peaks" for me back then. They have much more comedy (the biggest improvement) and the CGI has improved astronomically. McAvoy and Fassbender were definitely my favorite of the changes, to see those characters as something besides old men. I've liked Jennifer Lawrence, Sophie Turner, Hoult, Evan Peters, and Smit-McPhee as Nightcrawler, too. Dark Phoenix was probably my second favorite of the reset after Days of Future Past, then First Class and Apocalypse in fourth. I already own X-Men and X2; I need to pick up these four + Logan to complete my "collection" someday. They haven't been perfect, and yet I've enjoyed them, warts and all.

EDIT: Flower Drum Song just aired yesterday, but I didn't see it until it was already a half hour in and decided I should wait another time when I could get it from the beginning. And The Good Earth had aired a few weeks ago, too, actually; I only tuned in for a moment and it didn't seem quite like the book I'd read and I wasn't even sure if it was an adaptation of the book at the time? I had used The Good Earth as part of my student teaching years ago. So I didn't finish that either. Maybe next time then.

Anyway, I was really just editing to say that I saw previews for The King of Staten Island the other day during The Masked Singer (Jesse McCartney <3). I really like Pete Davidson, so I hope I enjoy it and this ends up being a big break for his career. I know he's probably not popular with everyone out there, but I've always liked him, personally. It's just a shame it got shafted of a theatrical release the same way Onward did.

Also, I just wanted to comment on a special I watched the other day, The Story of Soaps, which aired on ABC. Definitely an interesting watch! And yet also depressing somewhat to think of all the shows I've watched that are no more (Desperate Housewives, As the World Turns, Ugly Betty, etc. They showed a picture of Silvio Horta and didn't comment at all that he'd passed. ). I used to watch Days of Our Lives for a while until they re-cast Will with a, imo, pretty bad replacement... I heard the original actor returned a while back, but I never did fully pick it back up. I was thinking this morning when I was watching Supernatural that if Desperate Housewives had continued all this time, it would also be in its 15th season. I think it would've at least went 10 years if the four leads didn't become so expensive by the end, since it was making the same ratings as some shows that are considered "big hits" right now... *side eye* I still hope for a revival of that show, even if it's only for one season. Anyway, I did find it worth thinking about the direct line the special decided to draw between soaps -> O.J. -> reality TV in general as well as news channels like CNN's "breaking news" nonstop -> the current state of politics / news that's become a big show that's one crazy thing after another.... I think it's a good point really. As much as I do enjoy soap operas, I utterly detest the vast majority of reality TV, especially the Real Housewives. They really have putrefied our culture.

[UmbrellaFish]

The Good Earth

I read The Good Earth for a high school English elective... 8 years ago now, I think? That’s probably the last time I saw the movie version, too, since the teacher screened the movie after we finished the book. I can’t really remember how the book and the film differed but I’m sure it was significant— I remember the book felt very epic in scope, whereas the film felt much “smaller.” I enjoyed the book and back then I wondered if The Good Earth could be filmed for the screen again? I wonder if it’s even possible nowadays, I’m not sure the Chinese government would be interested in a depiction of their nation from a hundred year old Western perspective. There’s been a lot of discourse surrounding “The Good Earth” lately due to Ryan Murphy’s new Netflix show “Hollywood” which features Anna May Wong retelling the story of how she lost the role of O-Lan to Luise Rainer.

Hollywood

Speaking of Hollywood, I tried the first few episodes but I just couldn’t get into it! I was really excited for the show, Ryan Murphy combined with a diverse and inclusive revisionist take on Old Hollywood history *and* Patti LuPone sounded like a recipe for success in my book. But there’s something... so deeply unsettling about watching real life figures like Rock Hudson be subjected onscreen to the casting couch. It’s too icky to watch, even though I know in the show “it gets better.” I don’t know if I really have interest in revisiting this show, which makes me very sad.

I haven’t watched so many movies or TV shows lately. A friend is making me watch Looking from HBO (but I’m not a huge fan so far! It’s not bad but it’s kind of blah). What follows is some stuff from earlier in the month which I had meant to but forgot to share.

The King and I

This movie has even more problematic depictions of Asian people than does Flower Drum Song and it also has an uncomfortable attitude towards Western imperialism. But the movie and the musical it is based on are saved by two things: 1) the truly scintillating romance between Anna and the King, and 2) perhaps the finest score Rodgers and Hammerstein ever wrote. These two elements combine in the “Shall We Dance?” segment which is one of my all time favorite moments in musical theatre.

I know the production filmed in London with Kelli O’Hara and Ken Watanabe is available for streaming— I watched their “Shall We Dance?” number on YouTube but it isn’t quite as good as Deborah Kerr (the body through which Marni Nixon gave her best dubbing performances) and Yul Brynner.

My favorite “Shall We Dance?” is the recording of Julie Andrews and Ben Kingsley from the 90’s and I really don’t believe I’m biased in that accord. In their hands, the number is dripping in unspoken passion and the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra which accompanies them performs Rodgers’ music better than it ever had been and has yet to be.


I Love Lucy

I bought the new I Love Lucy: Colorized Collection out of curiosity since the colorization process has gotten a lot of praise online. Well, I think the shows look better in B&W as intended but the colorization process certainly has improved in the past 30 years. It’s so well done that sometimes you forget that what you’re watching was originally shot in B&W.

Lucy’s hair is inconsistent, going from bright orange to a deeper red— I’m not sure if this entirely the fault of the colorization process, or perhaps Lucy’s hair was dyed slightly different shades of red throughout the show. That said, I thought Lucy would be uncanny, but actually I’m more weirded out by Ethel! I guess I’ve seen Lucy in color plenty of times before (her color movies and later TV shows), but it’s strange to watch the show and realize frumpy Ethel Mertz had beautiful, beach blonde hair!

They’ve colorized 16 episodes already, a grab bag from different seasons, most (all?) of which have aired on CBS in prime time to apparently rave ratings. I wonder if the plan is to colorize 65 episodes and sell them into syndication? I grew up on Lucy in the 90’s and 2000’s but if these versions encourage new audiences to check out the classic redhead, then I guess it’s worth it.

All in all, a fun novelty/comfort food in the midst of the pandemic.

[Disney's Divinity]

^ I didn't care for Looking either. I wanted to enjoy it because of Groff, I just couldn't get into it. Russell Tovey is gorgeous though! I've liked him in nearly everything I've seen of him, too. I was just looking at Wikipedia and I've seen even more of him than I realized. I don't even remember him in The Lady in the Van right off. I loved Little Dorrit even if he had a minor role in that. Judy Parfitt was really great in that one.

I always loved the romance in The King and I, too. Sorry, I know my comments aren't always that complex "x is great, x is so amazing, I love x"

[UmbrellaFish]

I feel kind of bad because my friend likes Looking so much but yeah it’s very “meh” so far. Last night I was looking at the credits and I realized the show runner was the director of “Weekend” which I didn’t really like either.

I had such a crush on JGroff growing up when he was on “Glee,” but he’s really doing nothing for me here. I keep wishing he’ll grow his hair out and get mean and bitchy. I’m only on episode 4 so far which is the first time it’s hinted that Tovey has a thing for Groff. I think this is the first thing I’ve ever seen Tovey in, though.

I liked seeing Scott Bakula make an appearance. His character seems kinda adorable so far.

[Escapay]

Old Hollywood Racism & Sexism
Seeing the casual racism and sexism in old movies is half the fun for me, haha. They have this rose-colored tint to Americana that we recognize now was never the norm, just the acceptable fiction treated as truth. There's a scene in Christmas in Connecticut where a black delivery girl is bringing a package to Barbara Stanwyck, which turns out to be a mink coat. And Stanwyck is so gaga for the coat, even when Uncle Felix tells her later that the only one who needs a mink coat is a mink. Everything about that scene would be completely frowned upon today - a token black performer who disappears after one scene, fur as fashion and status, the truly abysmal backwards femininity about women and fur - but because it's 1945 we kind of just roll with it as "Their values were kind of weird back then."


Dark Phoenix and the X-Men Version 2.0
I didn't think it'd be possible to make a movie that was worse than X-Men Origins: Wolverine, but Simon Kinberg decided "Challenge Accepted" and gave us Dark Phoenix.

This is gonna probably be the wrong thing to say post #MeToo, but Bryan Singer's X-Men films at least knew what they wanted to say about being an outcast in the world, and that's why they were better. (Even if X-Men: Apocalypse doesn't really say it well.) The non-Singer films (The Last Stand, First Class, and Dark Phoenix) kind of still keep the general idea of X-Men as outsiders, but don't really delve into it beyond a bland approach of "We have superpowers, the world hates us, but we'll save it anyway." I love First Class, it's probably the only non-Singer X-Men to get it mostly right. I'm not considering the Wolverine movies into this equation because as a spin-off series with its own set of rules, it also had wonky vision for what it wants to say about the character, but at least Logan was good. And Deadpool is also its own thing. I never know if I love or hate his two-and-a-half films.

It'll be interesting to see how Disney/Marvel approaches X-Men now. They're not even calling them X-Men as of late, just coyly hinting that movies about mutants are coming.


Flower Drum Song
It's available to stream for free on Vudu, but with ads (usually one every 20 minutes or so, but they're weirdly placed.)

I have the DVD and am always thisclose to buying it digitally online for the better HD transfer, but I always hold out hope that Universal might release it as a catalogue title. When Twilight Time was still releasing titles, they announced they made a deal with Universal, which I hoped meant they'd get Flower Drum Song since Nick Redman made a documentary about Nancy Kwan. When I asked about it, they said it wasn't among the titles they were able to acquire even though they wanted it. So either Universal still plans on releasing it themselves, or maybe they licenced it to someone else (Arrow Video? Shout Select?).


The Story of Soaps
Not much to say beyond that I loved the documentary. It was so thorough and well-researched, hitting all the hot-button issues of both daytime serials and television as a whole. Not enough documentaries exist about soaps so this was a welcome addition to go on the proverbial shelf with things like 1982's Media Probes: Soap Operas, 2005's A&E Biography episode about "All My Children," and 2013's Soap Life.


The King and I
The Kelli O'Hara version was streaming for free on BroadwayHD a couple weeks back, but I missed out on the window to watch it. Might succomb to a BroadwayHD subscription just to watch what they have in their catalog.

I listened to the Julie Andrews album a couple years back and really enjoyed it. The Peabo Bryson & Lea Salonga duet for "I Have Dreamed" is my favorite track, although my favorite cover of the song overall is probably the mellow, slow ballad version by Kyle Riabko. Honestly, the entire album Richard Rodgers Reimagined is a delight to listen to, it's in the same style as his previous Close to You: Burt Bacharach Reimagined.

Speaking of Riabko, who replaced Jonathan Groff in Spring Awakening...


Looking
I hated this show. I was convinced to watch it by a former friend of mine, and so I trudged through the first season, but honestly, I only watched it to try and figure out why my friend liked it. When our friendship ended last year, I saw no reason to keep the show on my Hulu watchlist (I still had to watch the second season and the movie), so deleted it.


Hollywood
I watched the first three episodes, but alternated between each episode and a few episodes of 1999-2001's "The Lot," which I watched in its original run on AMC but haven't seen since. After more than enough of each, I kind of stopped midway through because fictional television shows about Hollywood are never really as interesting as they should be. It's the usual stories we expect, just fictionalized with different characters and then filtered through whatever the woke culture wants to try and apologize for with each subsequent generation. At least "The Lot" was transparent in showing us a slightly tongue-in-cheek take on Hollywood's Golden Age. The Ryan Murphy series is a bit Tarantino-esque in its approach to rewriting history to address the shortcomings of its past. Maybe the last four episodes changes this, but I'm fine waiting around before I get back into it.

Alby

[UmbrellaFish]

Okay, I will come back to respond to what Escapay wrote but HBO MAX!!

Turner Classic Movies has a pretty prominent “Hub” on HBO Max (formerly HBO Now) and they have soooooo many more classic movies than I was expecting. Chaplin is featured on the hub with a bunch of his movies from the 20’s on. You have the usual suspects like Casablanca, The Wizard of Oz, and Gone With the Wind. You have lesser titles like The Singing Nun. And then you have a ton of Criterion titles (the Godzilla collection)... I’ve barely scratched the surface because I just get so excited looking at them...

Pickings have been so paltry for the classic movie fan on Netflix and Hulu and I haven’t had TCM on cable in years. I was going through the list of movies here and I kept thinking “oh my god, I’ve always wanted to see that (so many of the international Criterion titles I’ve never watched) or “I’ve been dying to see this again (Doctor Zhivago, Mildred Pierce)”

So excited to dig into this catalogue!!!! I just don’t know where to begin!!!

[Disney Duster]

For seeing old classic films and great new films, or any films I have interest in, I use Amazon Prime. It's like my new Blockbuster. You can rent almost any film out there. Not every film is available. For instance, I had to buy Hitchcock's Rebecca to own phsyically, I couldn't rent it from Amazon. But seriously, if you want to be able to rent almost any film, I recommend Amazon Prime. It can also link up to your Movies Anywhere account, so movies you buy that are part of that show up to watch on Amazon Prime.

[JeanGreyForever]

@Escapay: I refuse to watch Dark Phoenix because reading the hate directed towards it from people who were first to endure it are funny enough lol.

Thanks for confirming what I guessed about Hollywood. I watch most of Ryan Murphy's shows but this one didn't interest me very much especially after mixed reviews. I thought it would be more like Feud: Bette and Joan and be about real life people rather than fictionalized characters with the real life ones on the periphery of their lives.

@UmbrellaFish: I don't have HBO anymore but I would like to get it again for TCM because my TV provider lost TCM a few months back and I was devastated by that. I loved watching old films with some of my fav actresses like Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Debbie Reynolds, Tallulah Bankhead, and Judy Garland to name a few.

@Disney Duster: I've always wanted to see Hitchcock's Rebecca so it's a shame that you had to get it physically. I'm guessing for the price that you could probably pick up a cheap DVD copy for it at the same amount. I'm very excited for the Rebecca remake starring Lily James and Armie Hammer!

[Disney Duster]

JeanGreyForever, I didn't understand what you meant by get a DVD copy for the same price? You mean get a DVD copy of Rebecca for the same price as the Criterion Blu-ray I got? Anyway, yes, I am excited they are making it! I hope Lily James turns in an Oscar-worthy performance this time! I think she's good, just, she could be better, in my opinion.

[DVDBuff1]

Does anyone watch Black Lightning? I finished Season 2 recently, and Jefferson Pierce has become one of my favorite superheroes for his consistent satisfying character arcs of faith being challenged. I have privileges where I can’t 100% identify to a divorced father of 2, and a school teacher in a Black community with heavy gang violence. But I do emotionally relate to passionate individuals who give their all for their loved ones, yet feel life regularly takes away from them. The struggle of living these days is unbearable, but let’s not give up on what makes it worth living for us. Who we love, matter most.

[JeanGreyForever]

JeanGreyForever, I didn't understand what you meant by get a DVD copy for the same price? You mean get a DVD copy of Rebecca for the same price as the Criterion Blu-ray I got? Anyway, yes, I am excited they are making it! I hope Lily James turns in an Oscar-worthy performance this time! I think she's good, just, she could be better, in my opinion.

Yes, that's what I meant because it sounds like Rebecca was a blind buy for you and you only did that because you wanted to watch it and couldn't find it available to rent digitally. So it would have been a shame if you purchased it for full price, like you did, and ended up not liking it. At least with a DVD copy that would likely be much cheaper.

That would be so neat if Lily James was Oscar nominated for the film. I haven't seen her in much else besides Cinderella to be honest.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, I get you. I have yet to watch Rebecca, but I bet I will like it anyway.

Yes, I only saw Lily James in Cinderella and Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. She did not really shine in P&P&Z.

So, on Amazon Prime I rented Amadeus. I think the first time I was ever exposed to it, really, other than seeing small clips when it was talked about on TV, was a joke on Family Guy of Stewie being Mozart and Peter being Salieri, who, while wearing a mask, asks Stewie to "Play Peter Griffin" on a harpsicord, and he does so mockingly, and Peter says, '"But it wasn't Stewie who was laughing at me. It was GOD!" *cue choral voices singing a funeral durge of Mozart or something* Anyway, I heard the film was famous for having awful costumes and wigs, but on the other hand I saw a lot of people seem to think the film is a masterpiece, from mentionings of it as part of their favorite films, or using it in their avatars. So I finally watched it. I saw an old guy play song songs and I thought, "Oh, so this must be Mozart, who's going to sadly recount how his life used to be so great, and his whole story", but no, it was Salieri, Mozart's rival, talking about how much he hated, and finally felt he indirectly killed, Mozart. And boy was Mozart himself a surprise! I knew he was a bit of a...crude guy when he was very young to his fellow classmates, and I heard he was wild in this film, but I must have forgotten that, or not imagined just how vulgar, obscene, playful, and child-like he would be. And he was freaking adorable. Inside and out. And I thought...is he...is he gay? Seems like he could be. So I looked him up. I learned Tom Hulce, who played Mozart, was also Quasimodo in Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame! He played my favorite male Disney character! And then, yup, Wikipedia revealed he is gay! Looking at him now, he's rather old, and rather fat lol but I am too, and he still has such a cute face. So, I would love to be his. But God would never allow that. He laughs at me! *cue choral voices singing a funeral durge of Mozart or something* Anyway, freaking amazing movie. A masterpiece.

[JeanGreyForever]

Let us know what you think about Rebecca. If you like it, I might go ahead and buy the Criterion Blu-Ray as a blind buy myself!

I didn't hear good things about Pride and Prejudice and Zombies so I never watched it.

I have never seen Amadeus either but I was aware of this film precisely because Tom Hulce was in the film. I could be wrong but I think I heard once that Tom Hulce got the role of Quasimodo because of his performance in Amadeus. It was either that or Disney became alerted to who he was because of Amadeus so that made him a contendor for Quasimodo. I'm glad you liked the film and I honestly don't know much about Mozart so everything you shared is news to me. I didn't know Tom Hulce was gay or if I did, I certainly didn't remember. He does look quite different now that I've google searched him and to be honest, I've never seen him in anything that wasn't Hunchback and I technically didn't see him in that lol.

[Disney Duster]

I'll let you know about Rebecca!

Yes, P&P&Z was a rather dull film I hardly remember anything about.

I have learned from many places Amadeus is not very historically accurate, and actually tonight I'll be looking at videos that explain what is fact and what is fiction, but it is not quite fiction, I have heard. Just mabe very embellished or not known to be true for sure. I have not seen Tom Hulce in anything besides Amadeus or Hunchback, either.

[Avaitor]

*just noticed this thread after browsing the non-Disney boards for the first time in a while*

For as gorgeous as I find Lily James, I haven't seen her in much either. Besides Cinderella, I've seen her in Baby Driver and Darkest Hour. I much prefer the former to the latter- Edgar Wright's a lot of fun, and he kept the momentum going epically fast. But I think she was better in the latter. Her role in Baby Driver is kind of thankless, your average two-dimensional love interest for the more developed male lead, while I thought she was actually quite good as Churchill's secretary in Darkest Hour. Frankly, I liked her better than Gary Oldman's Churchill, who I thought was actually more weird than impressive. Churchill also being a massive racist didn't improve my thoughts on the film...

Amadeus is one of my favorite movies, and possibly my favorite biopic, even if it's not accurate. Frankly, that's not too much of a turn-off either, as I feel that an excessive need for realism and accuracy is what has been making a lot of recent biopics come off as bland. But what I love about the film is the setting and aesthetic that Milos Forman brings us into. It looks and feels gorgeous, while the film itself is the right balance between epic and farcical. i also just cannot praise the acting enough between F. Murray Abraham and Tom Hulce, who are both excellent as Saliari and Mozart.

As for Hulce, the only other movie of his that I can recall seeing is Animal House, which is funny, but also pretty problematic. Especially the arc his character goes through, which there's no way would be repeated today.

Rebecca is pretty excellent, btw. I'd rank it mid-to-high Hitchcock, which is a compliment in my book. It's a shame that he never really went for its gothic aesthetic that often after this film, instead focusing on more modern, suburban settings. In a way, it really feels like Hitchcock getting his British roots out of his system with his first Hollywood picture, as this aesthetic has more in common with those films. The cast is pretty close to perfect, primarily the three leads. I hope you enjoy it!

And I actually have The Flower Drum Song recorded from TCM, and was probably going to watch it after this post. I've always wanted to see it, but I am a little wary about its supposedly racist content. I also feel that Rodgers and Hammerstein's works never translate as well being directed for the big screen. It feels like their directors could seldom decide between keeping the tightness of stage or going for the scope of screen, and fall in an awkward middle. The Sound of Music probably translates the best imo by going fully cinematic, but it's also not one of their best otherwise imo.

[JeanGreyForever]

I'll let you know about Rebecca!

Yes, P&P&Z was a rather dull film I hardly remember anything about.

I have learned from many places Amadeus is not very historically accurate, and actually tonight I'll be looking at videos that explain what is fact and what is fiction, but it is not quite fiction, I have heard. Just mabe very embellished or not known to be true for sure. I have not seen Tom Hulce in anything besides Amadeus or Hunchback, either.

Can't wait!

Lol, they show it on TV for free a lot but I'm glad that I haven't missed out on it then.

Thank you for explaining that Amadeus isn't the most historically accurate. Sounds like just about every Hollywood film then lol. I've realized the same thing applies to The Favourite which I just rewatched and while I love the movie, I was a bit disappointed to hear that most of it is embellished and wasn't like that in real life.

[JeanGreyForever]

*just noticed this thread after browsing the non-Disney boards for the first time in a while*

For as gorgeous as I find Lily James, I haven't seen her in much either. Besides Cinderella, I've seen her in Baby Driver and Darkest Hour. I much prefer the former to the latter- Edgar Wright's a lot of fun, and he kept the momentum going epically fast. But I think she was better in the latter. Her role in Baby Driver is kind of thankless, your average two-dimensional love interest for the more developed male lead, while I thought she was actually quite good as Churchill's secretary in Darkest Hour. Frankly, I liked her better than Gary Oldman's Churchill, who I thought was actually more weird than impressive. Churchill also being a massive racist didn't improve my thoughts on the film...

Amadeus is one of my favorite movies, and possibly my favorite biopic, even if it's not accurate. Frankly, that's not too much of a turn-off either, as I feel that an excessive need for realism and accuracy is what has been making a lot of recent biopics come off as bland. But what I love about the film is the setting and aesthetic that Milos Forman brings us into. It looks and feels gorgeous, while the film itself is the right balance between epic and farcical. i also just cannot praise the acting enough between F. Murray Abraham and Tom Hulce, who are both excellent as Saliari and Mozart.

As for Hulce, the only other movie of his that I can recall seeing is Animal House, which is funny, but also pretty problematic. Especially the arc his character goes through, which there's no way would be repeated today.

Rebecca is pretty excellent, btw. I'd rank it mid-to-high Hitchcock, which is a compliment in my book. It's a shame that he never really went for its gothic aesthetic that often after this film, instead focusing on more modern, suburban settings. In a way, it really feels like Hitchcock getting his British roots out of his system with his first Hollywood picture, as this aesthetic has more in common with those films. The cast is pretty close to perfect, primarily the three leads. I hope you enjoy it!

And I actually have The Flower Drum Song recorded from TCM, and was probably going to watch it after this post. I've always wanted to see it, but I am a little wary about its supposedly racist content. I also feel that Rodgers and Hammerstein's works never translate as well being directed for the big screen. It feels like their directors could seldom decide between keeping the tightness of stage or going for the scope of screen, and fall in an awkward middle. The Sound of Music probably translates the best imo by going fully cinematic, but it's also not one of their best otherwise imo.

I barely ever browse the non-Disney boards either so I miss a lot of great threads like these.

I haven't seen Baby Driver yet although I was interested in doing so because Lily James was in it. I might think otherwise now that I've heard her role wasn't particularly unique. In Darkest Hour, to be honest, I thought she'd have a bigger role as the secretary since they introduce her early on but it always felt like she was just there and didn't have much more to do. I hope Rebecca puts her back on the map. And yes, Churchill gets touted as this paragon of brilliance all the time but he's really quite problematic.

I'm glad to hear you praise Amadeus so I should definitely check it out then since you and Duster liked it so much. I agree that sticking too close to historical accuracy can often be at the detriment of a film but sometimes it is a bit disappointing when you like the movie's version of events so much and realize it probably wasn't anything that interesting in real life. I'm interested in Animal House now to see what's so problematic about it.

I love gothic pictures and gothic romance books in general so it's a surprise I haven't seen Rebecca as of yet. I honestly haven't seen too many Hitchcock films but my personal favorite is Lifeboat. It's a really enjoyable movie and one of the few film credits that Tallulah Bankhead had (she's the inspiration for Cruella De Vil and Bette Davis' Margo Channing in All About Eve).

I hope you enjoy The Flower Drum Song. I wish I still had TCM because I haven't been able to watch many old movies ever since our TV service lost it as a channel.

[Avaitor]

I haven't seen Baby Driver yet although I was interested in doing so because Lily James was in it. I might think otherwise now that I've heard her role wasn't particularly unique. In Darkest Hour, to be honest, I thought she'd have a bigger role as the secretary since they introduce her early on but it always felt like she was just there and didn't have much more to do. I hope Rebecca puts her back on the map. And yes, Churchill gets touted as this paragon of brilliance all the time but he's really quite problematic.

Baby Driver's still a fun movie, and the rest of the cast is pretty good (including, unfortunately, Kevin Spacey), but Lily's role isn't the best.

I do agree that her role in Darkest Hour was less substantial than I hoped for, but I thought that she did quite well with her material. I probably would've liked it better if the film was more upfront with Churchill's problematic tendencies, but that doesn't really happen.

I'm glad to hear you praise Amadeus so I should definitely check it out then since you and Duster liked it so much. I agree that sticking too close to historical accuracy can often be at the detriment of a film but sometimes it is a bit disappointing when you like the movie's version of events so much and realize it probably wasn't anything that interesting in real life. I'm interested in Animal House now to see what's so problematic about it.

That's a fair point. I do often believe that fact is more interesting than fiction, but I like a good story and character, even if you twist things. The writing is strong enough in Amadeus that I give it the benefit of the doubt.

As for Animal House

Tom Hulce's character has a subplot where a girl he meets at a party blacks out naked, and he has a literal angel and devil moment where he tries to decide if he should rape her... He doesn't, and drops her off still naked at her father's place. They later meet up and do have sex, only to find out that she's 13... yeah...

I love gothic pictures and gothic romance books in general so it's a surprise I haven't seen Rebecca as of yet. I honestly haven't seen too many Hitchcock films but my personal favorite is Lifeboat. It's a really enjoyable movie and one of the few film credits that Tallulah Bankhead had (she's the inspiration for Cruella De Vil and Bette Davis' Margo Channing in All About Eve).

That's a pretty good one, and I recall her being quite good. That also has one of my favorite Hitchcock cameos, where he appears photographed in the newspaper.

I hope you enjoy The Flower Drum Song. I wish I still had TCM because I haven't been able to watch many old movies ever since our TV service lost it as a channel.

Thanks, it was alright. I wasn't a big fan of the extended dance numbers, nor is it my favorite score by Rodgers and Hammerstein, but I had some fun with it, primarily in the first half.

I haven't written about it yet, but I usually write about what I watch on my letterboxd, if you wanna check it out. I hope to write a little more about it tomorrow.