Pixar ends talks with Disney

[PatrickvD]

I really believe this is another nail in Eisners coffin, think about it, he let go of Pixar... he failed... their own divsions sucks now..disney is screwed and HE did it, so he will either resign very shortly, or there will be a big NO to the re-election... his time is up...

and 20 animated films in production??? YEAH RIGHT, that would mean one movie for every artist... because what do they have left? a bunch of computer nerds... its over eisner, your out!

[SNERWW22785]

The selling point of Pixar's films is always the quality. It's not the brand-name or the voice talent, it's the kick-butt storytelling.

Having said that, Disney & Pixar have become synonymous and plenty of people I know reference Toy Story, Finding Nemo, etc as "Disney movies". In USA Today, every thursday they have a DVD page and ask top stars what's in their DVD player - a couple weeks ago Emily Proctor, from CSI:Miami, said "Finding Nemo - it's so great to have a Disney movie just as entertaining to adults as it is to kids."

So yeah, a certain element of Pixar's success comes from the attachment to Disney. That Disney name was probably worhth an extra $25-50 million just on name alone. Even the very average Disney movies of late - "Brother Bear", "Atlantis", "Dinosaur" - haul in about $80 million. Not enough to recoup their enormous production costs, but the Disney name is what seperates them from being unmitigated flops. As far as "Treasure Planet" is concerned...we won't go there. Was that Disney's animations biggest belly-up ever, financially?

My guess is Pixar will end up dealing with 20th Century Fox - Fox would love to have some certified hits in their animation division, and they already have experience structuring the sort of deal which Pixar wants because of their relationship with George Lucas.

And who knows, Pixar won't be able to deal until 2006...by then, Eisner will definitely be out, either by choice or by force, and a new Disney deal could still be in place.

[Udvarnoky]

You have to be realistic. Finding Nemo was not all that and I think if it didnt have the Disney logo and the Disney marketing behind it's back It wouldnt have gotten much money when it first opened so that's that.

I'd have to disagree with that.

[Athena]

That's just my position. I do not care about animated films in general. I would not consider myself an animation fan at all. I like Disney movies animated or not. That's probably why it's so easy to just turn my back on Pixar now that the partnership has ended.

My first thought when reading that... and of course it is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it... is that what is it about Disney movies that you enjoy? I mean, I'm assuming there is more to it than simply seeing a Disney logo at the start of the film... there must be qualities to these movies that you identify as being "Disney" and therefore I wonder is it possible for Pixar to continue having these 'Disney-esque' qualities that made you enjoy their work in the past now that they have split with the actual Disney company itself? Is it possible for another studio--aside from Disney--to have those qualities that you associate with Disney?

For myself, I find I enjoy Pixar films far more than the most recent round of Disney animated films... they have a warmth and quality of storytelling that I associate with the kind of Disney films that I watched and fell in love with growing up.


At any rate, artists and writers make these films far more than corporate suits and I think that being the case, Pixar will do just fine wherever they may land.

The deal with Pixar may or may not be dead. This could be posturing on both sides. The real deal is who is going to get John Lassiter. A deal between Disney and Pixar does not necessarily include Mr. Lassiter. The pixar movies have had excellent stories that have been lucid and clever for young and old kids. Mr. Lassiter is a big part of that success with the Toy Stories and Bug's Life. In my humble opinion he is the important piece.

I don't think the Lasseter variable will be much of an issue... my understanding was that he signed a 10 year exclusive contract with Pixar so that should keep him with Pixar long after the last of the Disney-Pixar films.

[dizfan]

That's just my position. I do not care about animated films in general. I would not consider myself an animation fan at all. I like Disney movies animated or not. That's probably why it's so easy to just turn my back on Pixar now that the partnership has ended.

My first thought when reading that... and of course it is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it... is that what is it about Disney movies that you enjoy? I mean, I'm assuming there is more to it than simply seeing a Disney logo at the start of the film... there must be qualities to these movies that you identify as being "Disney" and therefore I wonder is it possible for Pixar to continue having these 'Disney-esque' qualities that made you enjoy their work in the past now that they have split with the actual Disney company itself? Is it possible for another studio--aside from Disney--to have those qualities that you associate with Disney?

That I grew up watching Disney films since as long as I can remember. I don't have the same admiration for Pixar, even if Disney hasn't made their films as good as they used to. Who knows? Maybe it just is Sleeping Beauty Castle at tje beginning pf the movies that makes me bias.

Pixar can be as Disney-esque as they want to be, they still won't be Disney. Pixar's movies are a different kind of good movies, I wouldn't compare them to Bambi, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty or any of Walt's other classics. Those are in a class of their own, I think, and I would not put Pixar's stuff in the same catagory as those. They are something seperate...and frankly, I don't like 3-D animation as much as 2-D.

[Disney Guru]

Pixar should leave Disney, they are milking them good, every Pixar film is like GOLD.. but then I would miss the Disney Pixar name though, FOX Pixar would not be the same

YHeah subzero you are absolutely right.

[Panchito]

I agree that you can't really compare the Pixar movies to the 'Disney Classics' Snow White, Bambi, Pinnochio etc.

I would compare them to the contempory Disney product. Say from The Hunchback of Notre Dame to Brother Bear.

The Pixar movies seem to have an edge that the Disney movies of this era have lacked. I really don't know why.

On to the Topic : I fear for Pixar only because the average Joe Sixpack, Wanda Nailpolish only associates animated movies with Disney.

Disney will be able to use from the Makers of Toy Story and Finding Nemo etc. The 'average' citizen will forget about the Pixar name altogether and only associate Disney with the wonderful Pixar movies.

[Joe Carioca]

Just take a look at this article!!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ST0360.DTL

My very favorite part:
"We feel sick about Disney doing sequels," Jobs said. "If you look at the quality of their sequels, such as 'Lion King 11/2' and (the Peter Pan sequel 'Return to Neverland'), it's pretty embarrassing."



But I don't agree with this:
Jobs criticized Disney's last two animated efforts, this year's "Brother Bear" and last year's "Treasure Planet," as "flops." "No amount of marketing will turn a dud into a hit," Jobs said.


As much as I love Disney, I want all the world to know the problems that are going inside the house of mouse.

Jobs disparages Disney as Pixar earnings soar from 'Finding Nemo'

(02-04) 17:23 PST LOS ANGELES (AP) --

Boosted by a record quarterly and full-year performance, Pixar Animation Studios chief Steve Jobs on Wednesday explained his company's decision to split with The Walt Disney Co., blasting Disney as weak creatively and unwilling to compromise on a new agreement.

In a conference call with analysts to discuss Pixar's earnings, Jobs took a slap at Disney's recent animated films.

"The truth is there has been little creative collaboration with Disney for years," Jobs said. "You can compare the creative quality (of Pixar films) with the creative quality of Disney's last three films and judge each company's creative ability yourselves."

Pixar announced last week it was ending 10 months of exclusive talks to renew its deal with Disney to produce and distribute films. The company has two more films to deliver on its contract, including "The Incredibles," due out in November, and "Cars," to be released in 2005.

Pixar has been in business with Disney since 1991. The two companies released their first film, "Toy Story," in 1995. The two companies co-finance each film and split the profits evenly, with Disney claiming an additional 12.5 percent distribution fee.

Pixar's latest film, "Finding Nemo," has earned more than $800 million at the international box office to date, surpassing the record previously held by Disney's 1994 film, "The Lion King."

Jobs said he offered Disney better terms than he knew he could get from a rival studio during their negotiations, but said Disney balked at allowing Pixar to fold the last two movies due under the current deal into a new agreement with more favorable terms for Pixar.

Jobs also said the Pixar brand has become more powerful in animation than the Disney brand and expressed confidence about Pixar's chances with a new studio.

Jobs said every major studio has expressed interest in working with Pixar. Negotiations with at least four of them will begin in March and Pixar hopes to have a new deal in place by the fall.

Any new deal would begin with a Pixar film due to be released in 2006.

"Honestly, we're sad about it," Jobs said about the breakdown of talks with Disney. "I'm confident ... Pixar's golden age will continue to evolve without missing a beat."

Jobs criticized Disney's last two animated efforts, this year's "Brother Bear" and last year's "Treasure Planet," as "flops."

"No amount of marketing will turn a dud into a hit," Jobs said.

Jobs said it is unlikely Pixar would ever agree to make a sequel of the five films co-produced by Disney and said he would not want to see Disney exercise its right to make sequels on its own.

"We feel sick about Disney doing sequels," Jobs said. "If you look at the quality of their sequels, such as 'Lion King 11/2' and (the Peter Pan sequel 'Return to Neverland'), it's pretty embarrassing."

Disney called Jobs' remarks "unfortunate."

"It is unfortunate that Steve Jobs has grossly mischaracterized good faith negotiations to reach agreement on an extension of the present, successful partnership that has been beneficial to shareholders of both Pixar and Disney," Zenia Mucha, a Disney spokeswoman, said in a statement. "It's also sad and unfortunate that he has resorted to insults and name-calling in the wake of the disagreement. We expected better of him."

Earlier Wednesday, Pixar said its earnings more than quadrupled in the fourth quarter on the strength of its animated fish tale "Finding Nemo."

Pixar, based in Emeryville, Calif., reported net income Wednesday of $84 million, or $1.44 per share, in the quarter ended Jan. 3, compared to $17 million, or 31 cents per share in the same quarter last year.

Analysts surveyed by Thomson First Call had expected earnings of $1.26 per share.

Revenue rose sharply during the quarter to $165 million compared with $39.4 million in the same period last year on the better-than-expected performance of "Finding Nemo."

The film has also sold more than 24 million home video units.

For the full year, Pixar reported net income of $125 million, or $2.17 per share, compared to $90 million, or $1.68 in 2002.

Revenue for 2003 rose to $262 million, compared to $202 million in 2002.

Shares of Pixar fell 66 cents to close at $63.54 on the Nasdaq Stock Market before the results were released. The shares gained 99 cents in the extended session.

[Choco Bear]

Joe you beat me to it...
But my opinion of the article is slightly differnt...

Wow I have just lost a little respect for Pixar. Im not saying that Disney isn't stupid for letting them go financialy speaking but I would think they deserve more respect than that, they are the ones who made the Pixar label famous and if it wasnt for Disney Im gonna take a wild guess here and say that people would be saying today "What's Pixar?". Also he makes a shot at Disney's marketing abd saying they should have done a better job marketing their own feature animtion when Pixar themselves depended on Disney to market their films. He also goes on and criticizes the fine job of the animtors and story team of Disney and says his movies are way better than Disney's. I think Pixar has gotten to big of an ego and I really hope their next film flops so then they will maybe just maybe their heads will deflait and come back from under the clouds. Actually
i made a mistake when reading this article he made a shot at the animtors and writters and the creative team behind Disney critisizing their movies saying they were "duds" or in other words..crap! Im just amazed that they would steep so low. It just makes me so mad! Im liking Eisner a little bit more right now than I do Jobs.

Oh well the small version of my rant is that im pissed at Pixar for their overinflated heads and disrespect towards the company that made Pixar a household name, and that they would steep so low and take shots and fellow animators and their stories.

[Jack]

I'm not saying Pixar is better than Disney, but at this point, I think it's pretty obvious that Pixar is the more creative studio. While their films do bear a certain resemblence to each other, they take more risks I think, whereas Disney is sort of staying in the "safe zone" in sticking to familiar storylines and continually producing follow-ups to already existing films (L&S being an exception). Again, I'm not knocking Disney: Brother Bear was great. But I can't argue that Pixar is more creative at the moment.

It does dissapoint me that they referred to TLK1.5 as one of the examples of non-quality, since its one of the most creative DTVs to come along in a while. Plus, as mentioned, that's also putting down the artists behind it, who have done a great job with what they have to work with.

[Joe Carioca]

Joe you beat me to it...
But my opinion of the article is slightly differnt...

Wow I have just lost a little respect for Pixar. Im not saying that Disney isn't stupid for letting them go financialy speaking but I would think they deserve more respect than that, they are the ones who made the Pixar label famous and if it wasnt for Disney Im gonna take a wild guess here and say that people would be saying today "What's Pixar?". Also he makes a shot at Disney's marketing abd saying they should have done a better job marketing their own feature animtion when Pixar themselves depended on Disney to market their films. He also goes on and criticizes the fine job of the animtors and story team of Disney and says his movies are way better than Disney's. I think Pixar has gotten to big of an ego and I really hope their next film flops so then they will maybe just maybe their heads will deflait and come back from under the clouds. Actually
i made a mistake when reading this article he made a shot at the animtors and writters and the creative team behind Disney critisizing their movies saying they were "duds" or in other words..crap! Im just amazed that they would steep so low. It just makes me so mad! Im liking Eisner a little bit more right now than I do Jobs.

Oh well the small version of my rant is that im pissed at Pixar for their overinflated heads and disrespect towards the company that made Pixar a household name, and that they would steep so low and take shots and fellow animators and their stories.

Yeah, I agree with what you said, Choco Bear. Even after I read the article again, I went back and edited my post saying that I disagree when he treats the REAL Disney movies as crap... I mean, talk about respect with the artists.

But what I really liked was his comments about the sequels... Yes, some talented people work on them and bla... But their only purpose is to make money!! They don't deliver what people expect when they watch a Disney movie - quality! I don't say this is the only reason, but it is one of the of the reasons that the Disney name is far from being what it used to be.

Repeating what I said, I love Disney, but I don't like the Disney Company the way it is now. No more Eisner, no more cheapquels...

Oh, as I've always said, if a Pixar movie flops, I won't be said at all... this will proove that CGI isn't the only reason an animated movie can make money.

[MickeyMouseboy]

I really don't care what happens to Pixar once they leave Disney. They will be like Dreamworks and other animation studios for me. But I know that they will not make the money they did with Disney and we might see their first theatrical bomb soon.

[Maerj]

Well I think it's time I chime in here....


Now I like Pixar as much as the next guy, but calling Disney's animated films 'uncreative'? Okay, they seem to want to pick on Brother Bear and Treasure Planet here, two films that were fun, visually stunning and creative. Pixar's films are great, but as others on this board have already stated, they are doing buddy films. Same formula for each movie except for A Bug's Life. And again as another forum member once stated Finding Nemo is basically the story of two fish asking directions for an hour and a half. In fact, when I saw it at a sneak preview last year, I thought that people may not like it as much as the other Pixar films due to the lack of plot and it seemed to only make people like it even more!

Now for Disney's last few pictures we have Brother Bear, Treasure Planet, Lilo & Stitch... each a very different picture from the other. Even if you didn't overly care for any one of them, you have to admit that they are always trying different things. If they wanted a big hit each time out they could just keep doing the "Princess thing."

Now this isn't a slam against Pixar or anything, but since they decided to take a swing, I decided to take one back at them here. Maybe one possible key to Pixar's success is the fact that they have a very consistent product. They deliver visually appealing and fun stories with visuals that appeal to children and voice actors and dialogue that appeal to adults.

With Disney it's more of a mixed bag, but when you have been making animated films for as long as they have, you want to do something different. Even when Walt was around, they did different types of animated films. The guy who brought us Snow White and Bambi then created Fantasia. He also made Saludos Amigos and Make Mine Music. Now out of the classics Walt made, I am sure there are some you like more than others. Maybe even in this tiny list I made here there may be one or two films you don't like. Well, that's going to happen if you try to do something different each time out. Sometimes people will love them, sometimes they won't.

[Rebel]

I really don't care what happens to Pixar once they leave Disney. They will be like Dreamworks and other animation studios for me. But I know that they will not make the money they did with Disney and we might see their first theatrical bomb soon.

Why would a Pixar movie bomb due to the break from Disney? Disney has had virtually no creative input into the Pixar movies.

[Jens]

Argh, those things that Steve Jobs just said aren really wrong! I think Peter Pan Return to Neverland and especially TLK 1 1/2 are one of the best sequels by quality. They really can't say that! Let them take examples like Hunchback 2 and Tarzan & Jane, but not those 2!

Brother Bear is also a great movie, they have no right to offend that one because it really fits the Disney magic. Treasure Planet is one of my favorite movies and the only reason it "flopped" is that because altough they got a lot of people to watch it they never could pay back the production costs of it. And also because people thought it would be exactly the same as Treasure Island, which most people have seen before.

Steve Jobs can say bad things about Disney for my sake, but why is he picking the movies from the better time of Disney? I mean, at least they tried on those movies. You can't say that any movies Jobs named are bad quality!

[2099net]

Well, whichever way you look at it, and whichever side of the fence you stand on, it seems pretty clear that that Pixar aren't fishing for a deal with Disney anymore.

I wish them well. It will be interesting to see if, should Pixar experience financial difficulties, they eventually resort to making sequels, a tv series or approving tacky merchandise. Much as I love Marvel Comics, a series of Marvel films don't seem to match Job's "commitment" to quality...

Oh, and I seem to remember a Buzz Lightyear DTV and animated series? While Disney may co-own the characters and made the animations, I'm sure Pixar could have stopped this is they really, really wanted to. After all, it was done at the peak of the Disney-Pixar relationship. Pixar obviously benefited from the money.

[Rebel]

Check out this New York Post article, DISSIDENTS WANT JOBS TO RUN MAGIC KINGDOM.

February 5, 2004 -- STANLEY Gold and Roy Disney think Steven Jobs, the renowned boss of Apple Computer and Pixar, would be just dandy as the head of Walt Disney Cos.

It's not that either Messrs. Gold or Disney at this point actually have anything to say about who runs Disney, the company whose contract renegotiations with Job's Pixar animation outfit recently went blooey.

A few weeks back, both Stanley and Roy left the Disney board of directors in a huff, despite the fact that Roy, nephew of founder Walt, is a large shareholder.

Now, Stanley and Roy are out to make trouble, and we in the journalism business, of course, like it when company namesakes create a ruckus. The two dissidents are meeting these days with institutional investors in hopes of getting Disney's CEO Michael Eisner, once their friend but lately their mortal enemy, shown the door.

OK, so I figure if Stanley and Roy want Eisner out, whom do they want in? I tracked Stanley Gold down yesterday to see what he has in mind.

"There are five or six guys I believe can run this company," said Gold in a phone interview. "Steve Jobs would absolutely be one of them," he said truthfully, only after I brought up the name.

Gold wouldn't name the others, but he did offer that one of his choices was a woman. (OK, Hilary Duff? Melissa Gilbert?)

The dissident said he hasn't approached Jobs, nor has Jobs asked him for the job. (Did you notice how Steve's last name causes awkward sentences?)

But this much is clear: Steve Jobs and Michael Eisner weren't the best of buddies even before the negotiations between Disney and Pixar broke down.

Insiders say that while Roy Disney and Gold were on the board and talking up the importance of Disney's Pixar connection, Eisner never seemed so sure.

The attempt by Stanley and Roy to overthrow Eisner has about as much chance right now as Howard Dean's run for the presidency.

But that could change if Jobs is persuaded by the dissidents to join the anti-Eisner movement. The key date: the March 3rd Disney shareholders meeting in Philly.

Count on the dissidents to do a good job (see, there's that word again) to make trouble beforehand.

[Rebel]

Pixar Takes Aim at Disney, another article about the comments that Steve Jobs made :

Pixar Animation Studios CEO Steve Jobs ripped into Disney CEO Michael Eisner on Wednesday evening with all the intensity of an unrepentant shark.

Although professing some regret over Pixar's decision to end the company's distribution deal with Disney, Jobs made clear his disdain for Eisner and much of the rest of the Disney organization, and made it clear there was minimal chance of extending Pixar's current deal with Disney, under which Disney will distribute two more films over the next two years.

Jobs' comments, which came on a conference call with analysts, made it all but official that Pixar will have as little as possible to do with Disney over the coming years, and that one of the other four major studios in Hollywood will be distributing Pixar's future movies.

Thus, in coming years, Disney will have to look inward or elsewhere to duplicate the success it has enjoyed with Pixar, whose releases have been a major boost to Disney's bottom line.

Jobs' comments, which came as the company reported earnings for the fourth quarter ended Jan. 3, also add fuel to the fire already tended by disgruntled former Disney director Roy Disney, who is loudly complaining that Eisner has fallen down on the job of preserving the legacy of Roy's Uncle Walt.

Indicating his low regard for Disney's current creative output, Jobs told analysts, "We feel sick about Disney doing sequels" of Pixar-produced movies that the companies co-own, given Disney's recent sequels of The Lion King and Peter Pan. "It's pretty embarrassing."

Pixar's shares fell 66 cents Tuesday to close at $63.64, while Disney's shares fell 7 cents to $23.19.

Driven by the success of Finding Nemo, Pixar reported revenue of $164.8 million, ahead of the Thomson First Call consensus of $161 million. Diluted net income per share amounted to $1.44, ahead of the $1.26 expectation.
On the call, Jobs said that representatives of the other major studios had all called Pixar within the past five days regarding deals to distribute Pixar's movies. The company hopes to negotiate a successor agreement to the Disney relationship by the end of this year, Jobs said.

Jobs spoke highly of "the original spirit of Disney" and the company's marketing organization headed by Disney movie executive Dick Cook. But he discounted the company's creative efforts. "There has been little creative collaboration with Disney for years," Jobs said.

Indeed, Jobs opened up his comments about Disney by quoting a Los Angeles Times story reporting that, before Finding Nemo had been released, Eisner had told Disney's board he was not impressed with the movie. "We've been told the same story by several folks at Disney," Jobs said.

[2099net]

Indeed, Jobs opened up his comments about Disney by quoting a Los Angeles Times story reporting that, before Finding Nemo had been released, Eisner had told Disney's board he was not impressed with the movie. "We've been told the same story by several folks at Disney," Jobs said.

Oh dear. Perhaps I am Eisner after all. Because I hold the same opinion. Still.

Does anyone see Job's comments as being arrogant? Pixar seem to be filled with self-importance recently. Pride often comes before a fall.

[Rebel]

Does anyone see Job's comments as being arrogant? Pixar seem to be filled with self-importance recently. Pride often comes before a fall.

If you know anything about Steve Jobs, you should know that saying that his comments are arrogant is somewhat redundant.

I agree with other posts on here that the Peter Pan sequel is much better than some of the other sequels and thus Steve Jobs should have picked a different example. However, he may not have ever seen the really bad direct to video sequels. Can you actually imagine Steve Jobs sitting down to watch Cinderella 2?

The articles do not seem to agree about the comments on the Lion King sequels. Was Steve Jobs commenting on the Lion King II : Simba's Pride rather than the upcoming Lion King 1 1/2 sequel or both?

Also, in regards to Eisner's comments about Nemo, although Finding Nemo is probably at the bottom of my ranking of Pixar feature films, I would still rank it above many of the Disney productions from the past decade.