Miscellaneous Film/TV Discussion

[UmbrellaFish]

I haven’t listened to all of La Cage Aux Folles so I can’t provide my thoughts on the whole score. A few years back (actually, maybe closer to 10 years now) the show was revived and they performed “The Best of Times” on the Tonys and it still gets stuck in my head now and then. Herman’s musicals are so much fun. When critics called Sondheim atonal and cerebral, Herman was making old-fashioned, hummable showtunes with lots of “feeling.” “Put on Your Sunday Clothes” is so shiny and optimistic, the chorus in that song makes me cry. Even his flops have great songs, like Mack and Mabel and Dear World which starred Angela Lansbury in a musical adaptation of The Madwoman of Chaillot— if you haven’t listened to her sing, “I Don’t Want to Know” from that musical, you should, it’s really lovely.

John Adams
I finished the John Adams mini-series starring Paul Giamatti. It was a turning point in the career of director Tom Hooper. It was very good, I liked it better than his other work I’ve seen. It was really engrossing to see such a gritty take on the American Revolution— my perceptions of these men and that time has been painted by, well, paintings and mythologies so it’s interesting to see some of the sheen taken off.

One drawback— the teeth! We know oral hygiene then was very bad, but I’ve never seen a show chart its characters’ tooth decay quite like this. Mr and Mrs Adams go from middle to old age and their teeth turn from white to quite horribly black with yellow phases inbetween. I thought this was such a distracting choice! It may have been historically accurate, but it’s not like the Adamses are remembered for having bad teeth like Washington (who in this show did have that characteristic swollen mouth and complained of discomfort) or say, Elizabeth I are— where their bad teeth is a component of their iconography in popular memory. So why? It didn’t make the rest of their old age makeup look more convincing, in fact, it took me out of it if anything.

[Disney's Divinity]

Yes, Lansbury sounds absolutely gorgeous on that one. “Kiss Her Now” and “Each Tomorrow Morning” are wonderful, too, with such an ornate, sumptuous sound to them. Dear World’s one of those by him I own, along with Mame. I also have Hello Dolly!, too, but not the original—only the Streisand film’s soundtrack and the Bette Midler revival’s recording.

Btw, I’m happy you got a job, hopefully it’ll be a good experience, and I’m wishing the best for your grandmother/family.

[Disney Duster]

OMG. OMG. I just finished watching Sophie's Choice. I had been watching it over the past three or four days, because I was doing and watching other things at night and I couldn't fit it in with all the other stuff, but I was...shocked by this movie. My former drama teacher and play director recommened it to me, touting how good Meryl Streep was, how she learned I think two or three other languages and became fluent in them for the film. Then on The King of Queens which is my favorite sitcom, they mentioned how Sophie's choice was to give one of her children to the Nazis. I decided that was a good reason to go ahead and see the whole film, but I thought Sophie was choosing for one of her children to go to the camps or something, or get raised by Nazi's or something, not to die!!!! It was a horrifying scene. Meryl was amazing and a completely other person as Sophie, so she totally deserved the Oscar. The movie was very good, and I expected it had won Best Picture, but a search shows it wasn't even nominated and it only has a 78% on Rotten Tamatoes! It just goes to show even brilliant, best picture-worthy films can get only so-so reviews, I guess. Jeez this movie was astounding! And horrifying! Maybe that's why it didn't get a Best Picture nom?

[Disney Duster]

Finally, there's her voice, by Irene Cara, who I was so surprised to learn was black! I don't know if it makes me racist to be ok with voice actors voicing people who are not their same race, like the Dumbo crows and this movie's Snow White, but here we are. She was such a dear, lovable Snow White.

It turns out I was wrong. Irene Cara is Latino, not Black.

[UmbrellaFish]

Hmm... trying to post a review of Torch Song Trilogy but for some reason I keep getting an error message.

[UmbrellaFish]

I watched Torch Song Trilogy the other day. It was a really sweet movie— it’s so strange to see a LGBT movie from that era where AIDS is not even mentioned! I’m not familiar with the original play(s?), but you can tell that they’ve been condensed to fit into a two hour movie which is a shame. Sometimes it feels like they’re just going from Point A to Point B and you can tell you’re missing the bits inbetween— someone should buy up the rights and do a complete production as a miniseries or something.

Harvey Fierstein wrote the script and played the main character. He was so svelte! And Matthew Broderick plays one of Fierstein’s love interests. The great Anne Bancroft plays Harvey Fierstein’s mother in this— so who can complain? Okay, I will. Estelle Getty (Sophia from The Golden Girls) originated the role and she did relatively little work outside of The Golden Girls. How wonderful it would have been to have preserved her performance on film? I mean, again, with Anne Bancroft who can complain, but... still. I’ll say, after seeing this movie, you can see why they gave Sophia so many LGBT-centered storylines on The Golden Girls, particularly the episode where her son Phil dies. You can imagine this character delivering a similar monologue.

Anyway, it’s an imperfect but charming movie. One of the sweetest LGBT movies I’ve ever seen (although not without it’s share of significant heartache).


THIS IS SO WEIRD— it appears I can say gay but not “gay movie” without the quotation marks??? What’s going on???

[Disney Duster]

Thanks for the review of what sounds like a great movie to check out, UmbrellaFish!

Sucks about the forum's weird no-gay-language-allowed business which is rather curious because I think Luke has no problem with gays.

[Disney's Divinity]

I saw Torch Song Trilogy for the first time last year I believe. I enjoyed it for Harvey Fierstein although it’s not something I’d buy / badly want to own. The humor was my favorite part about it, and it was interesting to have a LGBT film with someone who wasn’t necessarily a stock pretty boy type. Open relationships and/or cheating is something I don’t really enjoy watching.

My favorite part of the film is later on when Fierstein’s character is raising a son. For me, it was sort of a drag to have all the heavy, disapproving family drama with Fierstein’s mother. It’s not that it was badly done or anything—and it’s a part of a great deal of many LGBT people’s stories. I think at some point in the past five-seven years, I just got sort of tired of watching those kinds of dreary LGBT films… I know this film was made a long time ago and not recently, lol. I’ll still watch those types of films one time just to know I’ve watched them, but then I file them away into my mind and never watch them again. Boy Erased was a recent one in that same category. I guess I’ve moved to a point in my life that I've divorced myself emotionally so much so from my own family because of that (and Trump), that I have no interest of even watching something of a similar vein play out onscreen anymore unless the main character is going to end it all by cursing them out and cutting them out immediately. I get its purpose for representing the reality of the world and for exposing non-LGBT viewers to that side of it though. I just no longer have time for it and find it boring to watch now; that’s not at all a criticism of Torch Song Trilogy, which was well-worth seeing. It just is what it is.

[Avaitor]

#50- The Searchers

We haven't done a movie night in a while. Between the cruelness of Chinatown, and the uncomfortable Steiner subplot from La Dolce Vita, I felt that we needed a break. I also had some stuff go on in the past week or so, but this looked like a good time to pick things up. We talked about finally doing Lawrence of Arabia, mapped out to two nights... then we found out that it's not streaming at all anymore, and no one particularly felt up to pay for the rental. So we'll put a pin on that.

I had seen The Searchers long before, when I was first getting into classic movies. However, it had been so long, that the details were mostly fuzzy, but I did remember the unfortunate details implicated by one of the character's deaths, which did not go over well with my friends. Nor did the inconsistent command of tone throughout, as we couldn't tell if the script condoned or stood against John Wayne's racism. It honestly seemed to flip-flop throughout.

And it's a shame, since it's aesthetically an incredible film. The wide shots are consistently gorgeous, and it does a great job of capturing natural scenery. We also appreciated its sense of humor, which allowed for the right amount of levity. Apparently, not everyone agrees about its use of comic relief, but it worked for us.

I also want to take the chance to talk about Friends, which I'm still watching on and off. I just finished season 7, which I didn't think was all that strong. It worked best when it focused on Chandler and Monica. I was expecting their relationship to fizzle out and become dull, but they had some of the strongest moments throughout here. I think my favorite storyline with the two involved when Monica met an ex of Chandler's that he dumped for gaining weight, which brought up past insecurities of her weight. I'm generally not a fan of how the show writes about Monica's heavier past, but her concerns were honest, and both the writers and Matthew Perry did a good job of making Chandler sound sincere when he said that he'd never do the same with her. I also liked the wedding dress episode, which had fun physical comedy in it, but also had a good moment where Monica throws Chandler a bone for the wedding. Although Carcass were no longer active in 2001, but that's my metalhead logic peaking out.

Besides that, eh. The other characters are becoming increasingly Flanderized, and their stories are becoming less fun or clever. The show was never great with character development, so I can forgive it. What I find harder to forget is the show's homophobia and transphobia. It's always been there, especially with how Chandler talks about his dad, but it's especially appalling when we meet... her? We meet them at a drag bar, but they still present feminine whenever we see them. Confusing drag queens and trans women is already a red flag, but they're also played by Kathleen Turner, which... okay? I'm used to seeing cis men playing trans women, but seeing a cis woman playing a trans woman is a little new to me, and all the more uncomfortable. The way the rest of the characters talk about them is especially galling. There's one line from Chandler's mom that made me gasp. How could anyone find this funny?

The episode where we meet Chandler's dad has another gross subplot, where Joey tries on women's underwear to "prove his masculinity" or whatever. First of all, it's twenty levels of uncomfortable that he literally steals Rachel's panties. It's one thing that Phoebe and her partner switched their underwear around- that was clearly consensual. But Joey just lifted his roommate's underwear without asking, and that's never brought up to shame him in any conceivable way, despite the amount of distrust. That'd be bad enough on its own, but the story resolves with Joey realizing that wearing panties makes him act "too feminine" and excited to try new things, and that's bad, and he should take them off. It punishes escaping from gender norms, and is just all-around dumb.

There's also the time where Ross tries to hook up with his cousin, which is just gross. Even Ted Mosby isn't that awful.

This show frustrates me. I'll concede that it's not the only series to have highly questionable content, particularly in LGBT representation. But the fact that I'm already not so hot on it tends to make its problematic material all the worse for me.

[blackcauldron85]

John Wayne was a racist? I don't know much at all about him, but my grandfather had liked his movies. I only know The Searchers from The Great Movie Ride. Would you say it's the best introductory film to watch John Wayne? (And HIMYM > Friends)

[Disney Duster]

I don't know jack about The Searchers, so I really can't comment on that. I don't know much about Friends either aside that it has a very huge and devoted fanbase, and was a very heavily 90's cultural thing and that, I don't know, it's supposed to be really great! Every episode I've watched has been fun. In fact the only stuff I ever disliked was how Phoebe seems insane and sings about a freaking smelly cat which is just disgusting to me. You bring up a lot of problems Avaitor, but I think the fun and what's good about the show just is too good, and overcomes that stuff. Maybe they really hate anything not hetersexual and not what's gender normal to them, but I dunno.

I watched Midnight Cowboy. I wanted to watch it because it was a Best Picture winner, and about a male prostitute. Both those things were of interest. It was really, really good. As I watched it I was like "Damn, this is a good movie" many times. Joe was so cute, so loving and mostly a good guy, but he has this danger to him which we see glimpses of. All the acting was so, so good. Pretty much perfect. There's this time when Rizzo gets nearly run over by a car and this scene was improvised and in an interview Dustin Hoffman says his brain told him not to break character but he sounds like he yelled at the car in his real voice there so...I think he broke character, lol. Anyway, this was a movie that had haunting backstory and great character and relationship development. Great music, too, and the music was so haunting during Joe's flashbacks and dreams. The writing was so phenomenal. So I highly recommend it. But watch out, it's very adult!

[Avaitor]

This article details some of the gross things John Wayne said during his lifetime. There's some pretty uncomfortable stuff in here, ngl.

The Searchers is iconic and tends to be well-received, but my favorite John Wayne movie is probably The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. I do remember also really enjoying Stagecoach, his star-making turn.

As for Friends, I'll admit that my particular dislike for the show's problematic material is probably expedited due to my own indifference towards the show. It has elements that I do like and I'm seeing the appeal of, but I also feel like I've got everything I need to out of the show by watching it once. It doesn't really reward repeated viewings the same way a Seinfeld or HIMYM do, even though those also have some questionable content. When I finish the show, I'll probably never come back to it again by choice, the way I do the other shows I've mentioned.

[blackcauldron85]

This article details some of the gross things John Wayne said during his lifetime. There's some pretty uncomfortable stuff in here, ngl.

The Searchers is iconic and tends to be well-received, but my favorite John Wayne movie is probably The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. I do remember also really enjoying Stagecoach, his star-making turn.

Ugh, that's gross. Thanks for sharing that... I've heard of both of the other films you mentioned...now that I know he's gross, that may make me not want to seek out those films, but maybe eventually I'll want to watch one of his westerns, to see what my grandfather liked...

[UmbrellaFish]

The Golden Palace

I’ve never watched the one season spin-off of my beloved Golden Girls, so I thought I’d give the show a try. And... it’s not bad? Some episodes at the beginning are pretty bad, and they wisely wrote out the child character half way through— but Don Cheadle and Cheech Marin are funny in their own right, and it’s kind of amazing to see Rose, Blanche and Sophia in “new” material like this. I’m so glad I watched this show! Yes, Dorothy is sorely missed and it’s not the same without her... but I can’t say, based on the quality of this season, that the show didn’t deserve a second season (supposedly, it was meant to have another season and then they pulled the plug last minute).

Honestly, the show deserves better treatment than it’s gotten. I watched it on YouTube, but Hulu should add it to their service and Disney should release it on DVD— maybe as an Exclusive through the Disney Movie Club. They’re really digging their heels into GG nostalgia right now— they could make a couple extra bucks by making Golden Palace more accessible to fans who’d like to see it!

[Disney's Divinity]

Thankfully I was able to see the new Emma the other day. Definitely a worthy adaptation, although I don't pretend that I loved it or that it passed the Garai mini-series which is my "ultimate" version of Emma (for now--the great thing about these books is they'll be getting adapted again and again forevermore). I love the look of the film, no question. I think it was just a lot of little things that is really just the fault of everyone who reads a book and comes away with a set image in their head. The actor for the father looked the part, but was far more spry than I think of the character. I picture him more sitting around mostly, except when he's chasing after someone to prevent them eating something "dangerous" like sweets , but I guess he did take regular walks throughout the novel. The actors for Knightley and Harriet especially were just not my image of those characters... Knightley's actor reminded me of James Woods in the face and that's not something I want to think about when watching a romance. That's not to be cruel to him, he did the part as well as he could have and that nude shot at the beginning, woo-boy. I think they were trying to imitate the Colin Firth moments from his version of P&P, to show the love interest in a more intimate state than we otherwise would have seen him. Miss Bates and Emma's reactions to her all throughout are probably the most on-point thing about this. I loved the way the camera closed in on both characters following Emma's cruel jab; it really nailed that feeling of something having slipped out that you wish you could shove back in and your blood is pumping and you feel guilty and ashamed. Miss Bates was a perfect cast (I loved her on Call the Midwife before this, so I didn't need to see it to know she'd be perfect). Emma herself though... Well, not really, but the woman they picked is such a strong actor that she made it work overall. I liked how at points the hair made her look just like an overpampered poodle.

I'm not one for big changes, but I sort of liked the agency they gave Harriet at the end... It felt out-of-character for her to be smart enough to register Emma's bad behavior much less confident enough to address it, and yet it felt nice to have someone other than Knightley confront Emma and Harriet especially is treated like she's nothing more than a doll Emma likes to play with. I also enjoyed that they had Emma visit and apologize to the farmer who marries Harriet.

[DVDBuff1]

Finally saw Interstellar for the first time, after skipping it in theaters 6 years ago. My reasons for skipping it then were because I didn’t want to watch a 3 hour movie by Christopher Nolan (a filmmaker I was holding a nit-picky bias against at the time.) Now that my personal tastes in entertainment have mellowed to something a little more “open minded”, I gave it a shot, and I wish I saw it in IMAX. I will openly admit part of my enjoyment of the movie is influenced by pacing it out doing stuff in between each viewing, but to me that is a strength for movies in home media, especially ones that have good indicators for an intermission; as opposed to a nonstop exuberant blockbuster, for good or bad. This is a beautiful emotionally driven Sci-Fi drama, that I fell in love with 20 mins in during the scene where the main protagonist was furious that space exploration was treated as a public fabrication. Setting the enduring tone throughout the movie that we human beings, no matter how much we stumble to our own selfish damnations, we are capable of creating beneficial wonders that transcend nature’s challenging limitations. BTW, the only reason I’m not seeing Tenet in theaters right now, is because I’m an average Californian in a BURNING state where theaters are closed down due to an ongoing human plague. At least my excuses now are for practical personal health than being a snobbish cinephile.

[Avaitor]

The TCA Awards were announced the other night. Normally they do the ceremony during their press tour in August, but since there was no tour this year, obviously that didn't happen. It'll be interesting to see how things go next year, and how much TV we'll have.

Anyway, this year's Heritage Award winner (aka the next series I'll hopefiully cover some day) is Star Trek. Yes, the original 1966 series. I'll be honest, this is one of those series which makes you ask- why hasn't it already won here? Right up there with I Love Lucy and The Twilight Zone, which I think haven't made it through because they like having cast and crew members come and receive this legacy award, while basically everyone of note involved with both of those series have died (I do have plans to get to the former through reasoning of my own, though, if I ever catch up). Back when they would announce the nominees, Star Trek was frequently there along with Twin Peaks and Lost, all of which kept losing to the point that I was expecting them to be perpetual bridesmaids. I'd personally be okay with the latter two, since I do not care for them at all.

Anyway, I'm not too much of a Trekkie. I didn't really grow up watching the franchise. I mentioned this earlier, but my early sci-fi obsession of choice was the Whedonverse, and for better or worse, I'll always go with Captain Reynolds over Kirk or Picard. I did see the 2009 film when it came out and enjoyed it, but that was my only exposure for a while. Around the time Into Darkness came out, I did grow curious, and watched a bunch of assorted episodes from all of the series on Netflix, and all of the movies. I could and can definitely see the appeal, and while I see the appeal and attachment to The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine, I think most of what I saw from the original series was my favorite. Bones is my favorite character- I enjoy his exasperated but respectful relationship with Spock, and his attempts to give Kirk levity and reasoning when he needs it. But I generally really liked the trio, as well as the rest of the Enterprise when they had more time to shine in the show and movies.

I've always wanted an excuse to watch the whole show in full, so this will be a good opportunity to do so. I'll probably try to get to it after I finish Deadwood, whenever I get back to that. I could do an episode at a time like I'm currently doing with Friends (currently partway through season 8 btw), but I have other plans for my side show when I finish it. I've been wanting to see Superstore for a while.

[blackcauldron85]

Star Trek is great. I'm extra partial to The Next Generation, but the original, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager are all good. I haven't seen the newest shows, Enterprise or Discovery (I only saw the first episode of Picard). I know that there's a new animated Star Trek show on CBS All Access, too, but I haven't seen it. I used to watch the animated Star Trek (original) that was on Nickelodeon when I was a kid.

Are you planning on only watching the original show, or then going onto TNG, DS9, etc?

[Avaitor]

Are you planning on only watching the original show, or then going onto TNG, DS9, etc?

I think just the original for now. But I do want to do full watches of TNG and DS9 some day. I can live without delving into Voyager or Enterprise in full, personally, and Discovery only mildly interests me. I did watch the first season of Picard out of curiosity, though, and I liked it alright, but I wouldn't call it a favorite. The show seemed to struggle to decide if it wanted to be episodic like TNG, more serialized like other shows of today, or a mixture of both. It felt like a case of trying to have its cake and eat it, too. I also didn't really care for most of the new characters, and was more excited for the classics to return.

I am thinking of watching the animated series, though. I mean the one from the 70's, not so much the current one, which doesn't look like my thing. Although speaking of Nickelodeon and Star Trek, I've heard that they're working on their own animated series as well...

[UmbrellaFish]

Bewitched

Bewitched is one of my favorite classic TV shows. I love Elizabeth Montgomery and Samantha Stevens is my favorite witch— I’ve always preferred good witches! Agnes Moorhead as Endora is delightfully witty and spooky, and I like both Darrin’s— although the first is my fave.

That said— the show has not aged well!!! It’s essentially a supernatural remake of I Love Lucy, except instead of the husband forbidding the wife to get into show biz, Darrin forbids Sam to use magic. On the surface it may appear that this still works, because Samantha agrees to this and she enters the marriage vowing to put off magic. But I Love Lucy works better because Lucy is a rebel and she always disobeys, making Ricky into the fool. OTOH, Sam only uses magic because she *has* to— and although Darrin usually comes off pretty foolish, so does Samantha. It just seems like they’ve put a terrible barrier in their lives for no reason. Endora was right!

I’ve thought about this a lot because in the past decade they were two Bewitched remakes shopped around. One was going to be called “Daphne” (a title which drove me daffy because all female witches in Bewitched have names that end in “A”!!!) about Samantha’s witchy granddaughter, and another was to be a take on Bewitched with a black family at the center. But none of them got off the ground, I think, because the central conceit— “the need to assimilate”— just doesn’t fly anymore, broomstick or no.