Beauty and the Beast Discussion

[Beast_enchantment]

Agreed! That all sounds really really good!! I would really like to see clips from the academy awards where they performed 'Belle' and 'Be Our Guest' - both performances were excellent. Also, how about a featurette on fairytales and how Disney transfered them to the big screen. And a featurette on the work-in-progress version that was screened to the public. Much more on promotional material, like you said would be great. And mybe a new game! And a blu-ray exclusive - watch the entire movie with a picture-in-picture documentary on the making of each scene in the movie (although that might be asking too much of Diseny, lol)

Oh, I love your ideas! The Oscar-performances (and Alan Menken's acceptance speach), a featurette on fairytales and Disney, work in progress-related material, promotional material, etc; I love it! Hehe, and that picture-in-picture documentary sounds wonderful - let's set you up with a job at Disney

thankyou but i'm too good for them haha

[Disney Duster]

Well Beast_enchantment, I guess you didn't want to address my points on the film and it's messages, but anyway...

Sleeping Beauty's Platinum Blu-ray will repeat many, almost all bonus features from the first DVD release, along with adding many more. It may be the most packed release of animated classic ever, we will wait to see.

Also, you know how lots of people were talking about how Gaston may have been how the Beast was before Belle brought out his good side? WELL...I just realized...tell me if I'm right, fans...isn't there a scene where Gaston is in the shadows, then steps out when Lefou comes with the bird he just killed? And this is similar to...the scene where the Beast steps out of the shadows?!

[pap64]

Not to be mean to Disney Duster, but with this argument, the Wall-E argument and my romantic story argument he seems to have a very different view when it comes to human love, or how its perceived.

[Disney's Divinity]

Not to bring up an old topic, but I was listening to the Broadway recording the other day and it brought up the issue of the Enchantress' place to cast her spell (when Chip and Mrs. Potts talk during "Something There"; incredibly sad, btw). Although the Enchantress' morals are definitely in question, the movie never says that she casts her spell in order to help the Beast become a good person. Only that she wanted to make his form match his heart. It said nothing for the viewer to assume that she was a heavenly, "good" prescence. She could've very easily been an angry witch. The whole point of him falling in love is that he would be human again when he started acting like (or, rather, being) one and thereby deserved a human form.

While one could make the argument that, perhaps, she cast her spell on the entire castle because they allowed the Beast to be a beast and lord over/represent them, she could also be taken as an outside force who had no intention to do good, only to put an arrogant man in his place. In fact, she is somewhat terrifying when she appears in The Enchanted Christmas, with her eyes flashing and all that.

It's very similar to many debates about Dumbledore in HP--who gave him the right to make the decisions he did, even if he did mean well?

(Donald: "Let's get the Enchantress!")

[PeterPanfan]

I think the Enchantress turned Prince Adam into a Beast because he did act arrogant, and she wanted to teach him a lesson. I don't, however, know why she turned the rest of the castle into what they were.

[JiminyCrick91]

I think the Enchantress turned Prince Adam into a Beast because he did act arrogant, and she wanted to teach him a lesson. I don't, however, know why she turned the rest of the castle into what they were.

I always assumed it was to make him have more regret and even more incentive to break the curse.

-Sky

[nomad2010]

I think the Enchantress turned Prince Adam into a Beast because he did act arrogant, and she wanted to teach him a lesson. I don't, however, know why she turned the rest of the castle into what they were.

I took it as they were just there. They did nothing to try to teach him or change him at all. They sat around and tolerated it letting him grow worse every year. So they were punished too and must help him break the spell to get their lives back.

[gregmasciola]

I always assumed it was to make him have more regret and even more incentive to break the curse.

That's what I've always thought. Perhaps seeing that other people were being punished for his actions would make him try harder to love.

[Disney Duster]

Not to be mean to Disney Duster, but with this argument, the Wall-E argument and my romantic story argument he seems to have a very different view when it comes to human love, or how its perceived.

Thank you for paying attention to an aspect of me and trying to understand me. But, I have a very different view from...who?

Does the rest of the world have a different view than mine, that they all agree on? And maybe, that's what love really is?

For a while I've thought love is different for everybody, and I have a feeling I'll continue to believe that. But I'll listen to what you have to say.

My love life hasn't been perfectly perfect, would you care to talk about your views on love and why you think the whole rest of the world, all normal humans, think this way?

And I am not being sarcastic, if that's what you're thinking. Because if my views on love are screwy, I want to know how to love and think about love.

Though if everyone's views on love are in agreement with Beauty and the Beast or Wall-E...eh, I'd like non-movie examples.

Besides, I also think real love must be felt in your own real life first before you understand what the characters are feeling in a film. Hence why I think romantic stories are not for children, though they're okay for children to watch and just not understand the mystery of love, I suppose. I know, I know, what a crazy idea, but I don't like the idea of little girls wanting to marry princes at age 6.

It pains me to say this, but since Beauty and the Beast spent more time on the love parts, it goes along with people saying it's a film more for older viewers. I'm just saying it goes along with that idea, I'm not saying the whole film is grown up or anything like that.

[Siren]

I get what you mean Disney Duster and I agree.

For instance, a child can watch a movie about a love story where a girl sees her boyfriend with another girl. She goes home and throws herself on the bed, sobbing, maybe she calls her friends, or writes in her diary, etc. A child would know enough that the girl's feelings are hurt, that she is sad and upset over what she saw. But a child will not know what it truly feels like to have their heart broken. That its not just an emotional feeling, but you can actually have physical symptoms to a broken heart, due to the stress of it. Its not just crying on your bed. Some people actually do feel a pain in their chest, technically the heart isn't broken, but the lungs and heart are thrown into overdrive because of the stress and working harder. Her stomach might hurt. She might not feel hungry at all, or suddenly have a huge appetite. Etc.

Someone who's never been in love and never had their heart broken can't watch a movie and say "I understand.". The same as in real life, when a person goes through a trauma, like a close friend dying, a terminal illness diagnosis, a rape, etc, and someone says, "I understand" and yet never went through what they did, so they can't understand.

[Disney Duster]

Thank you.

You explained all that very well. You know, I think I felt some inside pains over boys, so, that indicates I've felt real love...heh, regardless if I view it differently. Or maybe crushes feel the same as love, they just come quickly and go away quickly. Though I'd like to think true love feels different, even better. Maybe I should make a whole thread on "What is love?"

Also, when people say they understand, they might mean "I understand something bad has happened and you need time alone." But I get what you mean.

BTW EVERYBODY, mainly pap, I actually now invite you to use examples of Beauty and the Beast, Wall-E, or other films when discussing the love topic. I actually felt the love in Wall-E was well-crafted and I resonated with it, having felt in love myself. But robots feeling the same special, magical thing humans feel...ugh.

[pap64]

Someone who's never been in love and never had their heart broken can't watch a movie and say "I understand.". The same as in real life, when a person goes through a trauma, like a close friend dying, a terminal illness diagnosis, a rape, etc, and someone says, "I understand" and yet never went through what they did, so they can't understand.

I have to slightly disagree on this. I agree that a person can't FULLY understand what a person is going through until they have felt it for themselves. However, you CAN still have an clear understanding of it, especially if you are very attached to that person.

For example, I've never been in love nor have been in a relationship. However, I've been in situations in which my friends and family have suffered greatly and have told me their feelings. Again, I don't understand the PAIN they are feeling because that's something you can't share. However, I understand why they are suffering and keep it in my mind when I get into a relationship.

The best example I have is something that happened between my parents a few years back. Its very painful for me to talk about it, but I will say this; their pain became my own and have marked forever how I envision a married relationship should be.

Another example is that of my best friend. He was deep in love with this girl, who was my friend as well. Both shared similar attitudes, train of thoughts and personalities and to an extend loved each other. But their relationship was constantly on and off. In other words, they would be dating each other for a couple of months, break up, go back again. Each time they did they would be hurt even more because they knew that it would never work out yet felt this strong attraction towards each other. In my friend's case he felt very paranoid and insecure, yet couldn't stop thinking of her, even when he tried.

I didn't understand their feelings because its something that was felt deep within their souls. But I understood well enough to offer some empathy and personal thoughts. What I told my friend was that this is a relationship that would work out best as a friendship than a relationship and that they should sit down and finally decide what's best for them, FOR GOOD.

Luckily, my friend met another girl and they are both very happy. They are now living together and have been that way for a year now. My friend finally found someone that saw him as more than a friend, and that's makes me happy and I understand why my friend is so happy.

So again, I understand that feelings that too complex to be understood without feeling them first. But these feelings are also universal. Happiness, joy, sadness, pain, suffering, hope, enlightenment and even love are common in our souls. We feel them every day. So if a person ever said "I understand" to a person that is in pain he or she may not understand it 100% but they understand that being sad hurts and when you feel that way what that person needs is someone to cry to and be told that everything will be alright.

BTW EVERYBODY, mainly pap, I actually now invite you to use examples of Beauty and the Beast, Wall-E, or other films when discussing the love topic. I actually felt the love in Wall-E was well-crafted and I resonated with it, having felt in love myself. But robots feeling the same special, magical thing humans feel...ugh.

And why exclusively me? What exactly do you mean when you say that you welcome use to use Beauty and the Beast and Wall-E when discussing the love topic?

[Siren]

"I understand" is a phrase used too easily. For instance, I was bulimic and people would tell me, "I understand". This coming from family and friends I knew never went through it or even knew someone who was going through it.

They could mean, "I understand you are in pain, so I will leave you alone.", but I hardly get that feeling. Usually when someone says "I understand" they are trying to unconsciously connect to someone in pain. Its generally used to try and open the flood gates to get the person to talk. Myself and others I know, who have been through trauma, they hear "I understand" as one of the first things and its a turn off for discussion. The better thing to say is "Is there anything I can do?", rather than instantly try to take someone's problem and put it into two words like you actually know how they feel, all those things you may not read about in teen magazines of victims. Because its things you don't discuss but maybe with someone who knows exactly what you went through.

That is what I mean by the generic phrase "I understand.". Because unless you have been raped, have been bulimic, etc, then you can never understand. This is why many guidance counselors and psychologists do not use the words "I understand". Or at the very least, when they are used, they add on exactly what they understand, "I understand you are going through pain" or "I understand you have developed a low self-image", usually followed by a question.

"I understand" is just lumping it all together in an assumption you actually get everything they are going though. I understand those who say it don't mean it that way, but that is often how the victim feels it seems. And when someone is in a dire emotional straight, one should take full consideration in what they say sounds to the person they are talking to.

[pap64]

"I understand" is a phrase used too easily. For instance, I was bulimic and people would tell me, "I understand". This coming from family and friends I knew never went through it or even knew someone who was going through it.

They could mean, "I understand you are in pain, so I will leave you alone.", but I hardly get that feeling. Usually when someone says "I understand" they are trying to unconsciously connect to someone in pain. Its generally used to try and open the flood gates to get the person to talk. Myself and others I know, who have been through trauma, they hear "I understand" as one of the first things and its a turn off for discussion. The better thing to say is "Is there anything I can do?", rather than instantly try to take someone's problem and put it into two words like you actually know how they feel, all those things you may not read about in teen magazines of victims. Because its things you don't discuss but maybe with someone who knows exactly what you went through.

That is what I mean by the generic phrase "I understand.". Because unless you have been raped, have been bulimic, etc, then you can never understand. This is why many guidance counselors and psychologists do not use the words "I understand". Or at the very least, when they are used, they add on exactly what they understand, "I understand you are going through pain" or "I understand you have developed a low self-image", usually followed by a question.

"I understand" is just lumping it all together in an assumption you actually get everything they are going though. I understand those who say it don't mean it that way, but that is often how the victim feels it seems. And when someone is in a dire emotional straight, one should take full consideration in what they say sounds to the person they are talking to.

I agree that "I understand" is too much of a generic empathy comment that shouldn't be used often.

But what about the feeling of empathy? You may not understand WHY that person is in pain and HOW the feel, but that doesn't mean you can't offer hope or be in pain as well.

I want your thought on this: I consider myself to be a very empathic person. In other words, I share strong feelings with other people and understand their emotions. Usually, whenever someone comes to me in pain because something happened (they lost a friend or relative, a job or received some very bad news) I don't say usually. I just hug them and let them cry, and I cry along with them.

Now, I don't understand the feeling completely, but I understand that their are in pain, and its my pain to see a dear friend destroyed. So, am I trying badly to connect with that person or is it genuine care and empathy?

This is mainly what I want to make clear, since you are making sound that you can't be empathic towards another person because you don't understand their feeling, and frankly, its a very cynical view.

[Elladorine]

Maybe I should make a whole thread on "What is love?"

I think that would be a great idea, I'd love to go into more depth on the subject without straying too far OT from the thread. Perhaps we could continue to include ties and comparisons with Disney films.

BTW EVERYBODY, mainly pap, I actually now invite you to use examples of Beauty and the Beast, Wall-E, or other films when discussing the love topic.

I could actually go on about a segment in Enchanted over the subject and the pain it brought back to my memory.

[Siren]

pap64, simply listening to someone shows empathy. But for some, not all, hearing, "I understand" and that's it, nothing specific to what they understand, it makes it feel more like they are saying it just to say it.

Right now, you and I talking, it wouldn't bother me. But when someone has been through something traumatic or has suffered deep emotional scars, it is easy for them to misunderstand someone's good intentions. Doesn't make YOU a bad person, doesn't make THEM a bad person, it is simply emotions taking over rational. Which is why if the person says "I understand" and the other one gets upset over it, in the end, if they are true friends, the victim will realize they let their emotions get away with them and apologize to their friend for taking it the wrong way.

Like I said, you can be the most empathetic person in the world, but when you are talking to an emotionally drained and crushed person, words and meanings behind them need to be thought out carefully to avoid further pain for both.

[pap64]

pap64, simply listening to someone shows empathy. But for some, not all, hearing, "I understand" and that's it, nothing specific to what they understand, it makes it feel more like they are saying it just to say it.

Right now, you and I talking, it wouldn't bother me. But when someone has been through something traumatic or has suffered deep emotional scars, it is easy for them to misunderstand someone's good intentions. Doesn't make YOU a bad person, doesn't make THEM a bad person, it is simply emotions taking over rational. Which is why if the person says "I understand" and the other one gets upset over it, in the end, if they are true friends, the victim will realize they let their emotions get away with them and apologize to their friend for taking it the wrong way.

Like I said, you can be the most empathetic person in the world, but when you are talking to an emotionally drained and crushed person, words and meanings behind them need to be thought out carefully to avoid further pain for both.

In all honesty, I thought you were talking about the concept behind empathy and compassion, which means understanding the person's feelings and sharing them.

However, you seem to be talking about how to deal with a person with pain and the usage of the word "I understand".

I'm clear with your argument. Do you understand what I mean, though? Again, I am talking about the concept of empathy, which can be confused with understanding.

[Disney Duster]

Enigmawing...ugh, Enchanted, yet another movie I don't like. Why? Well, maybe we can talk about it in that love thread. It will be a huge can of worms though, I firmly believe love is different for everybody, and it is subjective. You know what, I'll just start it. Thanks for the suggestion and encouragement.

BTW EVERYBODY, mainly pap, I actually now invite you to use examples of Beauty and the Beast, Wall-E, or other films when discussing the love topic. I actually felt the love in Wall-E was well-crafted and I resonated with it, having felt in love myself. But robots feeling the same special, magical thing humans feel...ugh.

And why exclusively me? What exactly do you mean when you say that you welcome use to use Beauty and the Beast and Wall-E when discussing the love topic?

Because of:

Not to be mean to Disney Duster, but with this argument, the Wall-E argument and my romantic story argument he seems to have a very different view when it comes to human love, or how its perceived.

[Barbossa]

Does anybody know, when BatB comes out in its second Platinum Edition offering in 2010, will it be marketed as the 20th Anniversary? i.e. Sleeping Beauty is coming out next month and is a 50th Anniversary edition even though its 50th isn't until 2009.

It's hard to believe that it will be 20 years since it was first released (BatB).

[Flanger-Hanger]

OK this is merely for anyone curious as to why I feel so poorly for BatB.

First off, I used to adore the film. I watched it all the time, played the CD non stop, loved watching Sing Me a Story, playing the Broadway show CD, watching the DVD bonus features, seeing it in IMAX etc. I loved it.

Then for a long time I didn't watch it. I stopped caring, i felt unimpressed with it's song score listening to it again (except Belle and it's reprise) underwhelmed with it's story and felt the art itself only deserved mild praise. What happened? I think I developed some sort of taste, after seeing hundreds of other films and dozens of other musicals. Having broadened my tastes, here's is what I now take offense too:

-The villain. The whole concept of the movie was to make a villain who would appear to be the hero and the hero appeared to be the villain. They failed miserably with this concept. Gaston in design and personalty is an oafish, and unappealing buffoon is is painfully clear to the audience even at first glance to be an unlikable individual and not someone we can expect to do good. The went for cheap laughs instead of providing a character who could have seriously been a contender for Belle's emotions and could have added a wonderful sub-plot to the film, but instead we get an unlikeable, unfunny non threatening bad guy who fails on his own to provide any reasonable conflict for the film. The film praises itself for being "clever" with this approach but we still get a fairy tale archetype who is one dimensional and isn't even that cool compared to earlier Disney bad guys.

-The artwork. Unjustly praised for it fails to do anything new with the medium and fails to pay attention to details (amusingly brought up in the audio commentary). Never mind the issue of lead characters failing to look on-model at times (as a result of a short production schedule and ever increasing staff numbers), the background cast seems to be drawn in an rushed style that seems to imply the animators learned nothing form the days of The Great Mouse Detective where those charactres were static and hopelessly covered with smoke. They move in a rubbery style that seems rushed and implies that even the humans are made of the same "Disneyite" the enchanted objects are. The Black Cauldron was slammed for intentionally mixing animation styles but here it's of no concern for anyone. On top of that the dissapering bats, magic moving bear rug (which changes with each successive cut), recycled animation from Sleeping Beauty, the "time to die" line left as is despite the change in dialogue etc. these changes rarely happened in the old days of animation because people took time time to notice and change things. Beauty may have suffered from a shorter production schedule but it's annoying none the less to think that these flaws could have been fixed.

-The score. Just not as impressive as the works of Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner and Lowe, Stephen Sondheim etc. But then again what is? The music itself and the whole musical/comedy approach seems to take away from the drama by making everything bright and sunny when we should really be caring for the main characters lives at time. The dramatic weight isn't there when it should be and while "Be Our Guest" may be big and splashy, but shouldn't Belle and the Beast (who doesn't even have a freakin' name. When Belle shouts out "beats" it turns a serious moment into a laughable one because not one could have been bothered to take the time to realize this flaw and just pick a name out of a hat) get to know one another? there liking each other seems cliched and too modern romantic comedy to be taken realistically. Sticth's character arc was much more impressive than the Beasts.

The issues go on and on, but of course the fans will adore it just the same and ignore them. The only irony is that I once was one of this film.