politics Today

[Lazario]

Wow, I haven't heard anyone but the president and his supporters talk about race. I guess I've just never met a racist before in my life and if I didn't watch so many movies, I wouldn't even know they exist. The people I hear complain about the president disagree with his actions, not his race. Maybe its a conspiracy (can any liberals confirm this) and "We want freedom" is code for "We hate black people."

Again, I direct your attention to: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_awACeqK1Eg0/S ... -crazy.jpg . Believe it or not, JPA, people are focusing on Obama's race and they are taking him to task for the machinations in their head. They are making the connection between him being black and suggested policies that make them feel like he has any control over them (which is kind of the point of him being called President). Read the signs. They're everywhere. If it is a conspiracy - no one can confirm or deny it. And that's what people count on to say things like that.

As for - wanting freedom... How did Bush actually do anything to help American freedom? And we're not stupid, I'm assuming you're not either. So don't manipulate us and play that: they're fighting for freedom against the Evil Obama Administration bullshit. Only a child would be foolish enough to fall for that. Or someone with no recollection of the true evil Bush reigned in over 8 of the most embarrassing years in America's socio-political history!

Oh crap, I just realized that I occasionally watch Glenn Beck. Hide the children, I may get the urge to shoot people!

Give me a break, those incidents were just isolated cases by a couple of crazies. One was an ex nazi that was anti-Semitic and the other hated liberals for their policies (in particular, acceptance of gays, he was a homophobe). I don't think Glenn Beck or Michael Savage brought on their sudden homophobic or anti-Semitic viewpoints.

Michael Savage is a homophobe himself. Watch This (and I quote): "Are you a Sodomite?" "You should only get AIDS and die, ya pig. How's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig." "Go eat a sausage and choke on it; get trichinosis!" "We got another nice caller who's busy because he didn't have a nice night in the bathhouse"

Oh... and that's not all. He also said the following regarding his bigoted views on homosexuality: "the truth shall set me free." Hear it for yourself (0:30). He also slips a little hate for women in there too (such a generous guy, really). (1:25) Gays are "stealing" and "perverting" the "institution of marriage." That's hateful. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Here's Savage, going off on black voting. A real civil rights leader.

People like him don't have to give people views they don't already have. All they have to do is unite the hateful people and make them feel empowered. Beck promotes fear and paranoia, Savage and Limbaugh promote hate, O'Reilly promotes an answer to the confusion he instills in people not smart enough to see through the lies and manipulation.

They were obviously nuts to begin with and you get these freaks on both sides of the aisles.

Really? When was the last time a left-leaning freak went on a shooting spree?

Politics had nothing to do with these people

Again, we're not stupid. Why would you say something so incredibly false? Their killings and violence were politically-targeted. Therefore, you know politics had something to do with what they did. We know it too.

you can't even call them extremists, just crazies.

How about: both? The commentary they indulged in and the views they shared were extremist in nature and that extremism has brought violence and death as a result.

All I can say is I still laugh at the idiots with Obama=Hitler signs, just as hard as I laughed at the Bush=Hitler signs.

That's hugely unwise. Because of Bush, hundreds of thousands of people lost their lives. Our own troops in a worthless war that was motivated by Haliburton's interests, making Georgie look tough, and turning voters and politically minded citizens against each other. And many innocent children and other civilians in cities where bombs were dropped by our side.

Its your normal Democrat/Republican whining.

Not anymore.

[jpanimation]

Wow, I guess the left can do no wrong in these forums and Bush is the devil. I'll just stay out of these topics as I seem to be jumped when I suggest that the left isn't perfect, and that leftist extremest exist. Anyone in the center or to the right just isn't welcome hear I guess.

The Democrats ran congress and the Republicans ran the White House, making both responsible for the economic collapse but I'll probably be lynched for even suggesting that the Left can do any wrong. I wish there was more independents here or center leaning people that wouldn't delude themselves into thinking either side is perfect.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm insulting anyone here as thats not my intention. I just feel cornered for being too far center of the aisles.

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I thought this video was interesting, showing the scare tactics MSNBC uses and misinformation put out. Its far left mentality, they can't see their own faults, and no amount of facts will convince them. Both sides have extremists.

Anyway, thats all I'm saying and I'm not replying to anymore posts. I really want to avoid this thing escalating any farther. Not to mention we're off topic.

[Lazario]

Wow, I guess the left can do no wrong in these forums and Bush is the devil. I'll just stay out of these topics as I seem to be jumped when I suggest that the left isn't perfect, and that leftist extremest exist. Anyone in the center or to the right just isn't welcome hear I guess.

I won't lie to you- I like your replies. They're short and silly, with no real serious arguments or much information to grapple with. Making you no challenge whatsoever to "debate." You're simplifying and being dismissive to the point of insult. Bush was a shameless murderer. Who defends murderers? And reducing him and his administration to just another Republican or conservative in the game is plain ludicrous.

Which of course means- we're going to get along swimmingly. You're more than welcome to join in, anytime. I mean... you can take the basically left-leaning of the other repliers to this thread, right? You're not complaining that your view at present doesn't represent the majority of this sub-board- right?

The Democrats ran congress and the Republicans ran the White House, making both responsible for the economic collapse but I'll probably be lynched for even suggesting that the Left can do any wrong.

Well, don't give us your home address, E-Mail, and telephone number, then.

I wish there was more independents here or center leaning people that wouldn't delude themselves into thinking either side is perfect.

Perfect example of your type of argument. Nobody here said either side was perfect. And everyone (but you) knows that. So, you're going to have your work cut out for you proving otherwise.

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I thought this video was interesting, showing the scare tactics MSNBC uses and misinformation put out. Its far left mentality, they can't see their own faults, and no amount of facts will convince them. Both sides have extremists.

No one is arguing that. What we're saying- one side's extremists are occupied by murderers. At worst, the left extremists want to hurt people severely for disagreeing. But the left-leaners really aren't killers.

As for not enough people being in the middle... well, that's really the fault of all the right extremists fighting to have our rights taken away. Our rights to privacy, our rights to have our votes counted correctly, and many more.

As for your video... He dropped hints, but was unable to put the pieces together. He starts out making the shootings and murders of left-wingers trivial and commonplace- which truly takes away his credibility.

[Goliath]

As for laughing at the birth certificate, where is it? Just whip the darn thing out and shut everyone up. This whole debate should've been over before he even took office. The fact that he refuses to release it just adds fuel to the fire and if he ended up not being qualified, that would really screw things up. This controversy shouldn't exist.

You just revealed yourself, and you did it with this comment. You're not a libertarian. You're not even the unbiased "both sides do it"-person you want us to believe you are. This calling for the birth certificate to be released is very, very telling. It's what the "birthers" say all the time. Despite the fact that it's been up on Obama's and the White House's webpages for months. Despite the fact that Hawaii state officials have confirmed it two times. Despite the fact that the media have confirmed it was authentic. Yet, you are asking for it to be released. Yes, that tells me you're one of them.

That, and the fact that you pretend the extremist protesters don't have racist motives. The people at the twon halls are the same who showed up at McCain/Palin rallies and shoyted, whenever Obama's name was mentioned: "terrorist", "he's an Arab", "he's a muslim" etc. People who yell "Get your government hands of my Medicare" simply aren't there to discuss health care. Once they're confronted with a camera and asked why they are protesting, they don't know. They are saying: "I want my country back". Back from what? Back from the black man who's now leading it. And they are getting this from people like Glenn Beck, who says that Obama is a "reverse racist".

God, I can't believe I wasted all this time on you. But I have to say one more thing: NO, both sides DON'T do this. All those shooting incidents... Liberals don't do that. All the death threats against liberals in the media... Like Rush Limbaugh saying we should kill all liberals, but let two of them live as an example to the youth of what despicable beings they were... Liberals don't do that.

Next time, try to be a bit less obvious about your "birther"/nutjob status.

[Prudence]

But she didn't die.

Therefore- what harm was actually done?

I like how the metaphor of wolves was used.....being she was the one who put a bounty on their heads. Gave hunts cash for every wolf paw they brought it. She was a barbarian. I didn't like Obama much either, but I rather have him in office than her. And she would have been. McCain was not looking healthy. I was afraid he'd kick the bucket and she would take over. There are other reasons I didn't like her other than the wolves of course. More important reason, but that was kinda the nail in the coffin.

So hunters are automatically barbarians, hm? You bet she's an extremist in any way she goes, but honestly, heaps of people couldn't care less if it weren't Palin's bounty. I hunt and fish on occasion. I'm co-owner of a bait shop that sells hunting and fishing licenses. Controversial sports, usually not a case of wanting to kill every animal one sees.

I never said Palin wasn't a moron. She was and is, in most respects, but she was undeservedly slandered and continues to be. She was out of her element, inexperienced, hypocritical and, as aforementioned, a conservative woman. All red lights for her to sink. Slander and rumors are still nothing more than childish bullying.

My particular government class used every single class session as an opportunity to bash the woman, which in turn translated to flat-out bullying me for hunting, conservative leanings (though my liberal leanings, of which there are more, were merely ignored over shouting), and wearing my glasses on the day that they decided to yell about how ugly they found Sarah Palin's glasses. The class itself was out of control; the professor was used to most students taking Government 105 having better levels of composure and she just let us have free-for-all debates which would then simply become stupid arguments in which most everyone screamed.

If given the choice between McCain and Obama, I'll go with Obama. I really don't care much about either of them. Like I said earlier, I'm just sick of the sheer hatred that mainly exists in the seemingly harmless form of self-righteousness from both major sides. Self-righteousness isn't democratic at all. Self-righteousness is the mother of fascism.

[Lazario]

Like I said earlier, I'm just sick of the sheer hatred that mainly exists in the seemingly harmless form of self-righteousness from both major sides. Self-righteousness isn't democratic at all. Self-righteousness is the mother of fascism.

Well, you're certainly right there. (And I would know)

But just because people went after Sarah Palin doesn't mean anyone here is attacking you for hunting or anything else. I would apologize for the behavior of your government class- but I don't know those people. You might just have been taking what they said too personally. If someone is in the wrong by going after you, let it slide. Too many people forget how to be the bigger person. I'll respect you for anything you have to say or do. And nobody is completely left or right. Only people with no personality (flaws). And of course, there are no people like that.

[Goliath]

I never said Palin wasn't a moron. She was and is, in most respects, but she was undeservedly slandered and continues to be. She was out of her element, inexperienced, hypocritical and, as aforementioned, a conservative woman. All red lights for her to sink. Slander and rumors are still nothing more than childish bullying.

What slanders and rumors? She's the one who started throwing around slanderous comments and rumors, about Obama "palling around with terrorists". And when nuts showed up at her rallies who yelled "kill him!" when Obama was mentioned, she never did anything to correct them.

As I said before: Palin deserved everything that was thrown at her. She abused her powers as Governor of Alaska to get the ex-husband of her sister fired. So of course there's going to be comments about that. And she was promoting "abstinence only"-programs in schools, which are dangerous to young people's health, but her own daughter got knocked up out of wedlock? I'm sorry, but that is SO hypocritical. You cannot have your teenage daughter being pregnant by some lowlife scum like Levi Johnston and STILL preach abstinence. All the jokes that were made about that, she totally deserved it.

And let's not kid ourselves: Palin got off the hook easy. Way, way, way too easy. The only real heat she took was from the comedians. Imagine if this had been Obama's teenage daughter who got pregnant. And not pregnant by anybody, but by a wanna-be gangsta rapper with the MySpace-page of Levi Johnston... Obama's political career would have been over. All the conservatives in politics AND in the media who were all saying how precious it was that Bristol Palin got knocked up... they would have been in a frenzy if the teenage daughter of a BLACK candidate was pregnant. I say it again, his career would be over. He would have been destroyed.

So, Palin got off the hook very easily.

[Lazario]

I never said Palin wasn't a moron. She was and is, in most respects, but she was undeservedly slandered and continues to be. She was out of her element, inexperienced, hypocritical and, as aforementioned, a conservative woman. All red lights for her to sink. Slander and rumors are still nothing more than childish bullying.

What slanders and rumors? She's the one who started throwing around slanderous comments and rumors, about Obama "palling around with terrorists". And when nuts showed up at her rallies who yelled "kill him!" when Obama was mentioned, she never did anything to correct them.

Hey, Pru - even you have to admit he's got a point here.

[ajmrowland]

And what about this Government Health Care plan? For the record, while both sides have their faults, I'm all for it. I think the right-wingers are just being plain, stubborn, sore losers with everything, and especially this. Considering they support the big companies mainly, they're just desperate to keep your buck and "government interference" has always happened since Health Care was invented. Government-paid health care will probably mean that the people who are against it will only pay an extra 3-5 cents (maybe per dollar; keep forgetting what it is) for that DVD/Game/toy/electronic/skin-care/hair-care priduct/other far-from-essential items they indulge in and waste money on just like the rest of us! They can stop being hypocrites now! And the claim about killing off the elderly? That's an unfounded statement made by some poor souls who are just jealous of how good looking our president is. It's shallow and baseless and has no supporting evidence, whatsoever!


Edit: I just changed the topic's title to make it more of a general topic then just one piece of "political news".

[Princess Leia]

I'll just throw in my two cents.

I live in the United States and I am a Republican.

Slightly aside, but this connected to the Republican party beliefs, I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Whatever the Lord says is wrong, it is wrong. Abortion, murder, adultery, all those things are wrong. I was determined I would not join a party that condones the killing of helpless children.

Let me tell you something. I was born 3 and 1/2 months premature in 1989. It was only through the grace of God that I survived with few complications. My older sister was also born prematurely and she didn't survive. In the future, children who are trying to make their way into the world, even if it is too early, will not get the chance to live that I did.

True, the Republican Party has faltered in leadership by poor decisions. I feel that the invasion of Afghanistan was the right thing to do, but I'm not too sure about Iraq.(Particularly since the rumors of mass destruction weapons were disproved.) The Democratic Party cannot lead adequately either. Yet God puts those he wishes in power for a reason. They may think they achieved supreme power through their own ends, but it is God who gave it to them for a short time. Whatever happens, He is in control.

[Lazario]

It's because of thinking like that that they invented Separation of Church and State.

[Prudence]

What slanders and rumors? She's the one who started throwing around slanderous comments and rumors, about Obama "palling around with terrorists". And when nuts showed up at her rallies who yelled "kill him!" when Obama was mentioned, she never did anything to correct them.

Hey, Pru - even you have to admit he's got a point here.

Sure he does. So do I.

I was determined I would not join a party that condones the killing of helpless children.

Let me tell you something. I was born 3 and 1/2 months premature in 1989. It was only through the grace of God that I survived with few complications. My older sister was also born prematurely and she didn't survive. In the future, children who are trying to make their way into the world, even if it is too early, will not get the chance to live that I did.

No one from any party is forcing mothers to abort. I was also born prematurely, predicted not to survive, all of that. I know people who were born scarily prematurely as far back as the 1950s and beat the odds.

When I was four years of age, my mother told me, and I quote, "If I had known you would be this way, I would have aborted you!" She was only speaking of simple quirks. In a perfect world, there would be some type of sanity test for people to take before earning the right to conceive offspring.

It's because of thinking like that that they invented Separation of Church and State.

Yep.

[Goliath]

@ amjrowland: if only it were so easy. The problem is not just the Republicans, but most politicians, whether they be Democrat or Republican, Senator or Congressman. The problem is that most of them are in office because their campaigns were financed by hedge funds, oil companies, coal companies, and also insurance companies. So naturally they are going to side with their interests, and not the interests of the people. It's bribery. That's what it is. And it's made legal. Untill you get campaign finance reform, nothing will ever change. And of course big money interests will never let that happen. So basically, you're screwed.

'Cause when it comes to health care reform, both parties are bought and paid for by the farmaceutical industry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbWw23XwO5o

The Democrats-Republicans divide is only for a small part relevant. The big picture is that both parties answer to the same masters, and it ain't the people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPDhQAeMYmI

Also, if I'm right, Obama's 'public option' will only cover 10 million people more. That would still leave 35 million people uninsured.

Slightly aside, but this connected to the Republican party beliefs, I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Whatever the Lord says is wrong, it is wrong. Abortion, murder, adultery, all those things are wrong. I was determined I would not join a party that condones the killing of helpless children.

Helpless children were and are being killed on a daily basis as a result of Republican policy. In Iraq, in Afghanistan. And God knows how many helpless children die every year in the United States because insurance companies won't pay for their medical treatment and so the parents can't afoord it. And who knows how many helpless children have died from poverty when Reagan pushed thousands of families below the poverty line?

The Democratic Party cannot lead adequately either. Yet God puts those he wishes in power for a reason. They may think they achieved supreme power through their own ends, but it is God who gave it to them for a short time. Whatever happens, He is in control.

I'm sorry, but if God really cared about regular people, like you and me, if he cared about the poor, the weak, the innocent, and the good, he would never have 'placed in power' Reagan and both Bushes.

[SpringHeelJack]

Kang: Abortions for all!

Crowd: BOO!

Kang: Very well, no abortions for anyone!

Crowd: BOO!

Kang: Hmm... Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

Crowd: YAY!

[ajmrowland]

@ amjrowland: if only it were so easy. The problem is not just the Republicans, but most politicians, whether they be Democrat or Republican, Senator or Congressman. The problem is that most of them are in office because their campaigns were financed by hedge funds, oil companies, coal companies, and also insurance companies. So naturally they are going to side with their interests, and not the interests of the people. It's bribery. That's what it is. And it's made legal. Untill you get campaign finance reform, nothing will ever change. And of course big money interests will never let that happen. So basically, you're screwed. 'Cause when it comes to health care reform, both parties are bought and paid for by the farmaceutical industry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbWw23XwO5o

lol. that's true. Peanut Butter and Jelly are still sandwhich items and the same principle goes for politicians.

The Democrats-Republicans divide is only for a small part relevant. The big picture is that both parties answer to the same masters, and it ain't the people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPDhQAeMYmI

Also, if I'm right, Obama's 'public option' will only cover 10 million people more. That would still leave 35 million people uninsured.

You have a point, there, but change still doesn't happen overnight. I'm no political major, so forgive any ignorance I might have with this.

Slightly aside, but this connected to the Republican party beliefs, I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Whatever the Lord says is wrong, it is wrong. Abortion, murder, adultery, all those things are wrong. I was determined I would not join a party that condones the killing of helpless children.

Helpless children were and are being killed on a daily basis as a result of Republican policy. In Iraq, in Afghanistan. And God knows how many helpless children die every year in the United States because insurance companies won't pay for their medical treatment and so the parents can't afoord it. And who knows how many helpless children have died from poverty when Reagan pushed thousands of families below the poverty line?

Ever seen Sicko?

The Democratic Party cannot lead adequately either. Yet God puts those he wishes in power for a reason. They may think they achieved supreme power through their own ends, but it is God who gave it to them for a short time. Whatever happens, He is in control.

I'm sorry, but if God really cared about regular people, like you and me, if he cared about the poor, the weak, the innocent, and the good, he would never have 'placed in power' Reagan and both Bushes.

Plus too many of those people in power, in modern times or in history, collapsed from having too much of it. The imbalances in our current state of government only mean that history will repeat itself for the 100th time.

[Prudence]

I'm sorry, but if God really cared about regular people, like you and me, if he cared about the poor, the weak, the innocent, and the good, he would never have 'placed in power' Reagan and both Bushes.

Plus too many of those people in power, in modern times or in history, collapsed from having too much of it. The imbalances in our current state of government only mean that history will repeat itself for the 100th time.

Humanity as a whole is incapable of learning from the past, or at least incapable of putting into action long-term successful methods for avoiding past mistakes.

Kang: Abortions for all!

Crowd: BOO!

Kang: Very well, no abortions for anyone!

Crowd: BOO!

Kang: Hmm... Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

Crowd: YAY!

Basically, but what other sane option is there?

[Princess Leia]

God does care about regular people. Read John 3:16-17.

[ajmrowland]

I just read something of a smaller scale: The state California Energy Commission is trying to get a ben on HDTVs over 60". Not a big deal, really, but most are calling it completely pointless and say that the decision to be ecologically friendly should be up to the consumer.

[SpringHeelJack]

Take it to the "Religion today" thread.

[Lazario]

God does care about regular people. Read John 3:16-17.

Yeah, that proves a lot.

Take it to the "Religion today" thread.

Or, take it elsewhere entirely.