Miscellaneous Film/TV Discussion

[Farerb]

I can never understand Scarlett's obsession with him.

This. Ever since I was a kid, I thought this, too. *But* it was an infatuation, where the idea of Ashley in Scarlett's mind was been way bigger than reality ever would be. So we think Ashley wasn't "worthy" of her love, but she built him up in her mind to be the best man ever, everything she could want, etc., so even if we know, even if Ashley knows that he isn't *that* person, Scarlett's put him on such a pedestal that reality doesn't even matter to her; the "real" Ashley has been replaced in her mind by "pedestal" Ashley.

(Sorry I didn't write that better; I'm exhausted.)

You said it perfectly. This is what I meant that he is a metaphor. People has this image about the "old south" in their mind, but it is all a lie, just like Ashley was to Scarlett.

[Disney Duster]

Absolutely no condescension is intended when I say this. You are all smart people who understand the greatness of other films. But I think it is true that because Citizen Kane is touted as the best film ever made, it either builds up an impossible idea that can't be matched, or it makes a viewing experience look for stuff they think should make it great and then it's not there. I think the film is so perfect in how simple the visuals are and that simplicity can be lost on those who've seen such complicated movies these days. I think when people are older, then they may see why it's so good. Or maybe it just takes looking for certain things. And I know there's a whole world of symbolism and metaphor in the film lost on me that I will have to resarch if I wanna know. Ok, I just had to say that.

[JeanGreyForever]

I can never understand Scarlett's obsession with him.

This. Ever since I was a kid, I thought this, too. *But* it was an infatuation, where the idea of Ashley in Scarlett's mind was been way bigger than reality ever would be. So we think Ashley wasn't "worthy" of her love, but she built him up in her mind to be the best man ever, everything she could want, etc., so even if we know, even if Ashley knows that he isn't *that* person, Scarlett's put him on such a pedestal that reality doesn't even matter to her; the "real" Ashley has been replaced in her mind by "pedestal" Ashley.

(Sorry I didn't write that better; I'm exhausted.)

I understood it perfectly! You have great insight about the character.

This. Ever since I was a kid, I thought this, too. *But* it was an infatuation, where the idea of Ashley in Scarlett's mind was been way bigger than reality ever would be. So we think Ashley wasn't "worthy" of her love, but she built him up in her mind to be the best man ever, everything she could want, etc., so even if we know, even if Ashley knows that he isn't *that* person, Scarlett's put him on such a pedestal that reality doesn't even matter to her; the "real" Ashley has been replaced in her mind by "pedestal" Ashley.

(Sorry I didn't write that better; I'm exhausted.)

You said it perfectly. This is what I meant that he is a metaphor. People has this image about the "old south" in their mind, but it is all a lie, just like Ashley was to Scarlett.

Also a great connection to what you said earlier and what blackcauldron85 said.

[JeanGreyForever]

Absolutely no condescension is intended when I say this. You are all smart people who understand the greatness of other films. But I think it is true that because Citizen Kane is touted as the best film ever made, it either builds up an impossible idea that can't be matched, or it makes a viewing experience look for stuff they think should make it great and then it's not there. I think the film is so perfect in how simple the visuals are and that simplicity can be lost on those who've seen such complicated movies these days. I think when people are older, then they may see why it's so good. Or maybe it just takes looking for certain things. And I know there's a whole world of symbolism and metaphor in the film lost on me that I will have to resarch if I wanna know. Ok, I just had to say that.

For me, I think it would be difficult only because of how hyped this film is so I'm afraid I would be disappointed especially when it doesn't sound like the type of film I would normally like anyway. Everyone talks about the visuals though which you did as well so those particularly have me wondering what on earth these visuals could be like to be considered part of the best movie ever.

[Avaitor]

I like the reading of Ashley being a metaphor for the old South, and blackcauldron85 does a good job of explaining why. I will say that I think the movie is slightly more respectful to its Black characters than the book is, from what I recall. At least the movie never pulls out the N-word.

Apparently Ansel Elgort is not the only one with a controversy these days. Ansel Elgort being exposed inspired some girls to reveal they've been sexually assaulted by Justin Bieber.

Yes, I heard about that, but then I saw Justin Bieber pull out receipts that prove his innocence. While he's always come off as jerk to put it mildly, if he is innocent, then I feel bad. Not just for him, but also for actual victims of sexual assault, because often one false story can be enough to make others not believe in others stories. If he is guilty though, then screw him.

I've never been a huge Batman or DC fan so to be honest, The Dark Knight never swept me away like it did with others. One of my best friends was obsessed with this film though and I remember it was always playing at various parties I went to, much to my annoyance lol since I couldn't see the hype at all. Never even bothered watching the third film in the trilogy.

I don't really recommend the third one, but I'll admit that I was feeling kind of biased at the time I saw it. Maybe it'd hit differently after a few years removed, since it's a bit more sentimental. I don't really have the desire to watch the movies right now, though. I definitely think that Christopher Nolan does a better job of making more serious comic book movies than Zack Snyder does, and that they have more brevity than given credit for.

Never seen The Grapes of Wrath film but I had to read the book in high school and I despised it. So not my cup of tea.

Yeah, I've heard from many who read it in high school admit that they're not fans of the book. We somehow skipped over it in my school (probably due to the socialism lol), but I did read other Steinbeck works. I liked Of Mice and Men and East of Eden, but HATED "The Pearl". I've heard from some of those who read and hated Grapes of Wrath that it works better as a movie, maybe because it does a good job of condensing such a long read.

[Disney's Divinity]

Yes, The Dark Knight Rises was quite the disappointment after how amazing The Dark Knight was. I thought it was a sad way to end to those films, but I suppose it couldn't be helped after Ledger passed. Funny thing is I never really was a fan of the Joker before Ledger's take on the character, and not since either.

OM&M is the only Steinbeck book the Honors class I was a part of throughout High School read. I remember it was the one time the casuals got excited about reading, because of all the curse words.

[JeanGreyForever]

I like the reading of Ashley being a metaphor for the old South, and blackcauldron85 does a good job of explaining why. I will say that I think the movie is slightly more respectful to its Black characters than the book is, from what I recall. At least the movie never pulls out the N-word.

Apparently Ansel Elgort is not the only one with a controversy these days. Ansel Elgort being exposed inspired some girls to reveal they've been sexually assaulted by Justin Bieber.

Yes, I heard about that, but then I saw Justin Bieber pull out receipts that prove his innocence. While he's always come off as jerk to put it mildly, if he is innocent, then I feel bad. Not just for him, but also for actual victims of sexual assault, because often one false story can be enough to make others not believe in others stories. If he is guilty though, then screw him.

I've never been a huge Batman or DC fan so to be honest, The Dark Knight never swept me away like it did with others. One of my best friends was obsessed with this film though and I remember it was always playing at various parties I went to, much to my annoyance lol since I couldn't see the hype at all. Never even bothered watching the third film in the trilogy.

I don't really recommend the third one, but I'll admit that I was feeling kind of biased at the time I saw it. Maybe it'd hit differently after a few years removed, since it's a bit more sentimental. I don't really have the desire to watch the movies right now, though. I definitely think that Christopher Nolan does a better job of making more serious comic book movies than Zack Snyder does, and that they have more brevity than given credit for.

Never seen The Grapes of Wrath film but I had to read the book in high school and I despised it. So not my cup of tea.

Yeah, I've heard from many who read it in high school admit that they're not fans of the book. We somehow skipped over it in my school (probably due to the socialism lol), but I did read other Steinbeck works. I liked Of Mice and Men and East of Eden, but HATED "The Pearl". I've heard from some of those who read and hated Grapes of Wrath that it works better as a movie, maybe because it does a good job of condensing such a long read.

I know people give Hattie McDaniel a lot of flack for being a sellout but I have tremendous respect for her. She has a famous line about how “I’d rather play a maid in the movies than be one in real life.” That always stuck with me especially after recently learning that even early on in her Hollywood career, she still had to be employed as a real maid to make ends meet. A problem that comes from censoring films like Gone with the Wind and Song of the South is that it means Oscar-winning performances by early black actors like McDaniel and James Baskett get erased as well.

I read about the Justin Bieber stuff and I think his fanbase confirmed that the "receipts" posted by his people aren't accurate at all. And there is photographic evidence proving he was exactly where he was for the allegations because a lot of his stans were heartbroken that Bieber was proven wrong. However, there were some obviously false allegations against Harry Styles in a similar manner, which frankly even when I read, sounded like a parody post trying to make fun of these recent accusations. It's horrible when fake accusations are put out because they make people even less inclined to believe the real ones.

I think the third one was always going to feel like a letdown after The Dark Knight, especially with Ledger one. I will say though that I prefer Nolan's Batman films any day over any of Snyder's films which leave no emotional effect on me at all. I've heard JJ Abrams has been asked by DC to come and fix make their films to salvage their reputation.

My high school English teacher was incredibly liberal and she loved Steinbeck so we read Of Mice and Men as well, which I actually did enjoy, but I think that's because the book was much shorter in length and I found the subject matter more palatable. I never read East of Eden although isn't that a James Dean film? Perhaps I'd prefer The Grapes of Wrath as a film, I'll be honest that I've never had a real desire to go out and watch it. The Pearl sounds familiar but I can't recall anything about it right now.

[Disney Duster]

I feel like Citizen Kane defies genre. Only thing I can think of to call it is mystery. I never thought I would like it either, after watching some of it already, but when I saw it in full as an older adult I really appreciated it.

[Avaitor]

I read about the Justin Bieber stuff and I think his fanbase confirmed that the "receipts" posted by his people aren't accurate at all. And there is photographic evidence proving he was exactly where he was for the allegations because a lot of his stans were heartbroken that Bieber was proven wrong. However, there were some obviously false allegations against Harry Styles in a similar manner, which frankly even when I read, sounded like a parody post trying to make fun of these recent accusations. It's horrible when fake accusations are put out because they make people even less inclined to believe the real ones.

Oh, I didn't hear that Bieber's receipts were proven to be false. I don't really keep up with him, but just heard about the first part. It's unfortunate that he's likely guilty, then, but hopefully this will mean that we stop giving him another chance after each time he's screwed up like he has in the past.

[JeanGreyForever]

I feel like Citizen Kane defies genre. Only thing I can think of to call it is mystery. I never thought I would like it either, after watching some of it already, but when I saw it in full as an older adult I really appreciated it.

You have similar taste as me, so if you ended up loving it and finding it to be the best film ever, then I'm sure it won't be a difficult watch for me.

I read about the Justin Bieber stuff and I think his fanbase confirmed that the "receipts" posted by his people aren't accurate at all. And there is photographic evidence proving he was exactly where he was for the allegations because a lot of his stans were heartbroken that Bieber was proven wrong. However, there were some obviously false allegations against Harry Styles in a similar manner, which frankly even when I read, sounded like a parody post trying to make fun of these recent accusations. It's horrible when fake accusations are put out because they make people even less inclined to believe the real ones.

Oh, I didn't hear that Bieber's receipts were proven to be false. I don't really keep up with him, but just heard about the first part. It's unfortunate that he's likely guilty, then, but hopefully this will mean that we stop giving him another chance after each time he's screwed up like he has in the past.

I barely keep up with Bieber but on Twitter, I was reading his fandom corroborating the girl's story. There's actually two girls who've come out against him so far.

Bieber has frankly always been problematic and kinda gross. I used to read articles about his lecherous behavior with girls and how his father/manager used to enable him.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, yeah we do have similar taste so maybe you will love it!

[UmbrellaFish]

Lily James— I do think of her as sort of a boring actress. I never think she’s bad, but I never think she’s all that great, either. She’s been propped up for major movie stardom but I think there’s a reason she hasn’t quite made the A-List yet.

Happily Ever After— I haven’t seen this movie in years! When I was a kid and my family would go to the movie rental store, I’d always gravitate to the Disney knock-off section because I wanted to see how they compared to the movies I already owned. I remember the Anastasia knock off pretty clearly... at the end, her talking instrument companions were revealed to be the souls of her deceased family. I know it sounds silly and weird, but I thought there was something very sad (and maybe a little horrifying) about that.

Citizen Kane- I always think the greatness of this movie is more so derived from how it was filmed (it used innovative techniques which were new then but common place now) rather than what was filmed. I like it just fine but I never go out of my way to watch it.

Donald Trump has also claimed Citizen Kane as his favorite film— I think he may even be on the DVD bonus features? But that’s not to malign the flick— I think the President is very much the type of person who says his tastes align with whatever is broadly considered the “greatest” or “the best.”

Metropolis- I DVR’d this so many times from TCM but never got through it. I’m sure it’s good!

ET- The first and only time I ever saw this movie was in high school French class, in French with no English subtitles. I loved it and wished I’d seen it as a child, and I bought the Blu-Ray but still I haven’t returned to it.

It Happened One Night— I saw this for the first time in high school and loved it, but I don’t remember many of the plot details. I bought the Blu Ray last year during the B&N Criterion sale so I will have to rewatch it soon.

Moonlight— I still haven’t seen this movie. Shame on me.

The Dark Knight— Seeing this movie at 13 years old was like a religious experience. I thought it was one of the greatest movies I’d ever seen. I haven’t rewatched it recently because it’s pretty long, and because I don’t really like the movies on either side of the trilogy— Dark Knight Returns was such a let down as a follow up.

Gone With the Wind- It’s such a finely made film, but I love it most of all for Vivien Leigh’s performance. Imagining anyone else in the role of Scarlett O’Hara is inconceivable. She carries that whole mammoth of a picture on her back. Next time I watch it I will have to keep that reading of Ashley Wilkes as a metaphor for the Old South in my mind. I’d never thought of it that way before but it sounds accurate!

Speaking of Ashley Wilkes, I was first introduced to the actor who played him, Leslie Howard, in the 1938 movie version of Pygmalion and the true basis for the musical My Fair Lady. He’s my favorite Henry Higgins on screen, but Leslie Howard also led an interesting life off-screen. He died when the Germans shot his plane down during WWII. For years, there have been rumors that Howard was secretly involved with British Intelligence during the war.

Of Mice and Men— Not about the movie, but a play adaptation. When I was in 7th grade, we went to see a special matinee school performance at the state theatre of Virginia. It was y’know, “Of Mice and Men,” but apparently our teachers thought that this would be an edited and censored performance since it was for schools. It was not, and when they got on the bus our teachers apologized for the content. I thought, what’s the big deal??? Which reminds me...

Whoopi on Broadway— has anyone ever seen this? Its amazing! It used to be available in full on YouTube but I don’t see it there anymore. Anyway, this is what put Whoopi Goldberg on the map— it’s a series of dramatic and comedic monologues of a variety of different characters, all performed by Goldberg. It’s some of the greatest acting I’ve ever seen.

Well, my senior year I was the teaching assistant in my Theatre Arts class and I suggested to the teach that she screen this special. She previewed it and said okay, but wanted me by the computer to fast forward through the explicit stuff since I knew where to expect it.

So the first character I skipped through all the drug use and the cursing. And after that point, most everything else is non-controversial. Or so I thought. Then we got to the teenage surfer girl who is pregnant. This is one of the best characters. And it never crossed my mind that my teacher would want me to skip through the part where she describes and imitates a wire hanger abortion... If I skipped that part, you’d lose the entire dramatic point of the piece... you might as well skip the whole monologue if you skip that part. And certainly, if it was inappropriate for me at that age, it wasn’t inappropriate for anybody else.

[Avaitor]

I'm not familiar with that Whoopi special, but that sounds awesome. I can understand why your teacher would be iffy on showing the wire hanger sequence, and it would probably be better at a college level. But I can see how it would offend some people regardless, and cause trouble for your teacher. Which is a shame, since it sounds like a good bit.

We're winding down on the movie nights that we've done, so I'll just wrap up those last few here:

41- Roman Holiday- This is the first one we've done since quarantine happened. The initial plan was to wait for lockdown restrictions to ease down, but after a good month or so, it just seemed safer to try live-streaming instead. Luckily, we found a good service in Kosmi, and we hosted a virtual room there to watch this on Prime. Before this, we've used streaming a little bit, but I own a lot of these movies on my own, or would sometimes rent them from Netflix. Which I did here, but Kosmi doesn't support DVD hard-drives.

I saw this a long time ago, possibly streaming on Netflix, and I thought that it was a nice romcom with a justly starmaking turn for Audrey Hepburn. I still mostly feel the same way now, as she's terrific here, and well-matched with Gregory Peck. The film holds a little more punch than I remember- that ending is a doozy. My friends were pleasantly surprised with this one, too.

42- On the Waterfront- This isn't one of my favorites, but I do own it anyway. Still, we streamed it on my friend's Criterion Channel subscription, and the ones who hadn't seen it generally agreed with my thoughts on the film- excellent Bernstein score, sharp cinematography, and generally great acting all around. I'm personally not the hugest fan of Brando, or method acting as a whole, but this is easily among his best. My friends were more impressed by how well Eva Marie Saint did for what I believe was her first performance, but I still stand by Karl Malden being the MVP of the feature. I'm just not very impressed by the narrative, and I find Terry's character uncomfortably petulant, which everyone else agreed with. It's a well-made film, but far from a favorite.

43- The Godfather, Part II- This one is on hold. Not dropped, but we ended up skipping it because the only person who has CBS All Access, where it's streaming, doesn't feel comfortable hosting a stream for such a long movie when she just got a small puppy. But we're hoping to have an in-person meet up this weekend, so we'll try to do it then. This way she can pause when the puppy needs to go out and it'll be less of a big deal.

44- Toy Story- So we went here instead. As you can tell by my avatar, I do love the movie (but it is time for a new one...), and it's all very familiar to me. But familiarity isn't bad, as we were able to wax nostalgic and enjoy some of the best bits ever written for a family feature. The later films may be more ambitious, but I honestly prefer the perfect simplicity of the original, and cherish Woody and Buzz's bond making here.

So a couple of the friends we've been doing these movie nights with for years are moving to LA at the end of July, which is why we're talking about keeping these streaming in the future. Like I mentioned, we're going to try to watch Godfather Part II in person before they leave, and I think some of them will try to do a rewatch of the first, especially since one of the regulars missed it when we watched it years ago. But we're also planning to stream Jaws next week. I'll just share those as we go along if people are still interested.

But besides that, I also have a post I can make about TV.

[blackcauldron85]

Were there any new insights you all had in regards to Toy Story??

[Disney's Divinity]

I agree about The Dark Knight and GWtW, UmbrellaFish. Scarlett is the main reason I love the latter, there's just something about that character, although I always loved Rhett and wished she could love him, too.

Did anyone else read about how Kristen Stewart is going to play Princess Diana? So, so awful. I'm trying to think who would've been better. All I can think is that Cate Blanchett would've been perfect back in her prime, she's so tall and elegant.

[UmbrellaFish]

Did anyone else read about how Kristen Stewart is going to play Princess Diana? So, so awful. I'm trying to think who would've been better. All I can think is that Cate Blanchett would've been perfect back in her prime, she's so tall and elegant.

I’ll preface this by saying I don’t think I’ve seen Stewart in anything but the Twilight movies, and I’ve heard great things about her performances in indie flicks, buuuut.... It’s hard to imagine Kristen Stewart portraying Diana at her most effervescent, shaking hands and making strangers feel “seen.” It hard to imagine her matching Diana’s glamor and sophistication.

That said, I can totally see Stewart nailing Diana’s shyness, the way she would tuck her chin in and stare up at a person with her big blue eyes. That small smile she did sometimes. The movie is to be directed by Pablo Lorraine who almost won Natalie Portman an Oscar in Jackie and I hope he does as much justice by Diana as he did Jackie. I’m afraid it will turn out like Grace of Monaco, though— the director won Marion Cotillard an Oscar with her incredible portrayal of Edith Piaf, and then a few years later, his biopic on Grace Kelly starring Nicole Kidman ended up premiering on Lifetime. Ouch!

Cate Blanchett would have been an ideal Princess Diana fifteen years ago. Now that you raise the prospect, I’m sad we never got it. I never watched the Naomi Watts movie... the stuff I’ve seen from it doesn’t look very good.

EDIT: I just rewatched the trailer for Naomi Watt’s “Diana.” That movie really looks woof!

[Disney Duster]

UmbrellaFish, I completely feel what you feel on that Anastasia knock-off deceased family plot point. Citizen Kane is definitely more about how it was filmed than what, but I also feel the "what" is as around as powerful as stories get, too.

Avaitor, well, I liked reading your posts on the films you've been watching, so I am still interested. You should do the TV ones too! I only don't get why, if for some reason your group can't see a movie, you don't just try to see it another time?

[JeanGreyForever]

@Avaitor:
I read wire hanger sequence and at first thought you were referring to Mommie Dearest lol. Much different from the seriousness of what was actually being referred to.

To be honest, I am not an Audrey Hepburn fan at all. I know people love her but I've never seen the appeal and have basically only skimmed through her major films such as Roman Holiday. I'm glad this film exists though because of how much the creations of Aurora and Belle drew inspiration from it.

I hope you guys get a chance to watch The Godfather II this weekend. Let us know what you think then. I think it's really great that even though your friends are moving, you guys are going to continue to keep up your movie nights via streaming.

Like blackcauldron85, I'd love to hear if your friends felt anything interesting about Toy Story now.

[Avaitor]

Were there any new insights you all had in regards to Toy Story??

I think a couple of friends who hadn't seen the movie in a while were surprised at Buzz's mortality arc. I'm recently familiar enough with the film to where I recall it well, but it is a surprising and effective theme for a "kids flick".

Avaitor, well, I liked reading your posts on the films you've been watching, so I am still interested. You should do the TV ones too! I only don't get why, if for some reason your group can't see a movie, you don't just try to see it another time?

I'm glad that people enjoy reading these! I don't want to steal this thread from everyone, so I hope you all continue posting your recent experiences too- I do enjoy reading them, even if i don't always comment.

As to why we don't always come back to movies that we miss out on, I think that's just me reading the room and seeing that not every film featured is going to interest my crew as much. So I'll just count our losses and move on to the next one. When I suggested bringing back some of the movies we missed before, it seemed like my crew was more interested in going further on the list rather than going back, which I can ultimately live with. I'd like to do every movie as listed, but I guess life doesn't always work that way.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, ok Avaitor, thanks for explaining. It's too bad not everyone wants to see them all, but, it's all about just enjoying films with those who want to in the end I guess!