I read something like that before. I remember Bill Maher joking about that; something to the extent of: "one in five Americans see a book called 'The Old Testament' and one called 'The New Testament' and can't figure out which came first!"Lazario wrote:This one's rather cute:
Big gaps in Americans' religious knowledge
The News Headlines thread
A lot of bad happening in the world right now. A new Dutch right-wing government, which relies for support on the anti-islam, anti-immigration, anti-everything right-wing extremists of the Dutch Tea Party, is about to happen. But depressed as I was about that, I was more shocked with the events in Ecuador.
If I was religious, I would pray my hardest for the well-being of president Correa. I just hope this will not turn into a repeat of the 2009 Honduran coup d'état...
From the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11447519
If I was religious, I would pray my hardest for the well-being of president Correa. I just hope this will not turn into a repeat of the 2009 Honduran coup d'état...
From the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11447519
Ecuador declares state of emergency amid 'coup attempt'
A state of emergency has been declared in Ecuador after President Rafael Correa accused the opposition and security forces of a coup attempt. Mr Correa was taken to hospital after being hit by tear gas at a protest. Later reports spoke of fresh violence outside as he was being treated.
Troops also took over the main airport, forcing it to close. Unrest has been reported across the country. The protesters are angry at a new law that cuts benefits for public servants.
In other developments on Thursday:
* Police officers erect road blocks in Quito, Guayaquil and Cuenca. Several government buildings are occupied
* Looting is reported in the capital and Guayaquil. Banks are robbed, while schools and businesses close due to the lack of security
* The head of the armed forces declares its loyalty to the president
* Venezuela's president claims Mr Correa is "in danger of being killed"
* Peru and Colombia close their borders with Ecuador in solidarity.
The dramatic events began on Thursday morning, when members of the armed forces and police angry at the austerity measures occupied several barracks and set up road blocks across the country to demand the austerity measures be abandoned by the government.
Television stations showed images of police setting tyres on fire in the streets of Quito, Guayaquil and other cities. The National Assembly building was also occupied.
In a speech to soldiers from Quito's main barracks, President Correa said: "If you want to kill the president, here he is. Kill him, if you want to. Kill him if you are brave enough.
"If you want to seize the barracks, if you want to leave citizens undefended, if you want to betray the mission of the police force, go ahead. But this government will do what has to be done. This president will not take a step back."
However, Mr Correa was forced to flee the barracks wearing a gas mask shortly afterwards when tear gas was fired by the protesters. The president was later treated for the effects of the gas at a police hospital, from where he told local media that he had been "attacked". "They threw tear gas at us. One exploded near my face. It stunned me and my wife for a few seconds, probably minutes," he said. "I had to put on a gas mask and some cowards took it off me so I would suffocate."
"We live in a state which is governed by laws, and we are subordinate to the highest authority which is the president of the republic. I mean they shot at the president - it's incredible - our security forces, our national police."
"It is a coup attempt led by the opposition and certain sections of the armed forces and the police," he added. "Whatever happens to me I want to express my love for my family and my homeland." He blamed the Patriotic Society Party (PSP), led by Lucio Gutierrez, for fomenting the unrest, and said "all bad elements" in the police force would "be removed".
[...]
Despite the unrest, the head of Armed Forces Joint Command, Gen Luis Ernesto Gonzalez Villarreal, said the troops remained loyal. "We live in a state which is governed by laws, and we are subordinate to the highest authority which is the president of the republic," he said. "We will take whatever appropriate action the government decides on."
[...]
Several leaders in the region expressed their support for Mr Correa, as did the Organisation of American States (OAS). Its Secretary-General Miguel Insulza called the situation "a coup d'etat in the making". Peruvia President Alan Garcia meanwhile ordered his nation's border with Ecuador closed until Mr Correa's "democratic authority" was re-established. Colombia's leader Juan Manuel Santos also followed suit.
The US said it was "closely monitoring" the situation and gave its backing to Mr Correa, while UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said he was deeply concerned for the president's "personal welfare" and called on "all actors to intensify efforts to resolve the current crisis peacefully."
On Wednesday, one minister said President Correa was considering disbanding Congress because members of his Country Alliance had threatened to block proposals to shrink the bureaucracy. Ecuador's two-year-old constitution allows the president declare an impasse and rule by decree until new elections. However, such a move would have to be approved by the Constitutional Court.
Ecuador has a history of political instability. Protests toppled three presidents during economic turmoil in the decade before Mr Correa, a 47-year-old US-trained economist, took power in 2007.
Geert Wilders is a Dutch MP who leads a party with 24 seats in the 150 seats 'House of Representatives'. He wants to ban the Qu'ran (not the Bible or Thora), outlaw Islamic schools (not Christian or Jewish schools), outlaw the building of new mosques (not new churches or synagogues), and he wants a tax on headscarves for muslim women. And no, that is no joke.
He's now the pillar under a new (proposed) Dutch government.
He's now the pillar under a new (proposed) Dutch government.
From AP: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... =D9IIC8602New Dutch govt wants to tighten immigration laws
By MIKE CORDER (AP) – 6 hours ago
THE HAGUE, Netherlands — A new Dutch minority government that could be formed as early as next week is planning to ban face-covering burqas and slash immigration, anti-Islam lawmaker Geert Wilders said Thursday.
The proposed new administration is a coalition between the Liberal VVD party led by future Prime Minister Mark Rutte and the Christian Democratic Alliance. The two parties, which have 52 seats in the 150-seat parliament, will rely for support on the 24 seats held by Wilders and his Freedom Party.
The deal has aroused objections from some Christian Democrat lawmakers who don't want to work with Wilders. A Christian Democrat party convention on Saturday will decide whether to go ahead with the planned four-year alliance. However, while Wilders has the toughest anti-immigrant views, both the VVD and Christian Democrats pledged before the elections to crack down on new arrivals, and the last Christian Democrat-led government also wanted to ban burqas.
The policy blueprint unveiled Thursday came after months of closed-doors negotiations following inconclusive June 9 national elections. Rutte's VVD party emerged as the largest party, but Wilders' Freedom Party rose from nine seats to 24, underscoring a further shift from the Netherlands' long-held image as a bastion of tolerance that welcomes newcomers.
Wilders said he hoped that by toughening immigration regulations, the new government would slash the number of asylum seekers getting into the Netherlands by one-quarter and reduce by half what he called "non-Western immigrants." The government said it plans to make it harder for immigrants already living in the Netherlands to bring other family members here and also would make it tougher for unskilled immigrants with little chance of finding work to move to the country. "We are taking unprecedented measures to rein in immigration," Wilders said. Those immigrants who do get in will have to pay for their own integration courses and could be kicked out if they do not complete them.
The policy document was presented just days before Wilders is scheduled to go on trial in Amsterdam on hate speech charges linked to his outspoken criticism of Islam, which he describes as a violent political ideology.
Dutch governments in the past have said they planned to ban full-face veils such as burqas, but have never pushed the policy into law. In the meantime, France's Parliament has passed legislation banning Islamic veils such as burqas. While the VVD and Christian Democrats are reliant on Wilders' support in parliament, they are at pains to say they do not share his anti-Islam stance. "This Cabinet will stand up for our freedoms, including freedom of education and religion," Christian Democrat leader Maxime Verhagen said. "These freedoms are shared by everybody; men or women, young or old ... Christian or Muslim."
Rutte said he also planned to slash government spending by euro18 billion ($24.6 billion) in coming years to help the Netherlands emerge from the global fiscal crisis with a stronger economy.
UPDATE: President Correa has been brought to safety by the army. It's a very good sign that the military is still behind the president. Correa was taken to the presidential palace, where he appeared on the balcony to speak to his supporters, who had gathered in front of the palace. The police officers who had been participating in the violent demonstrations, will be laid-off. Neighbouring presidents, including right-winger Santos of Columbia, have affirmed their strong support for president Correa.
All seems to go in the right direction in Ecuador.
All seems to go in the right direction in Ecuador.
Today is a very, very sad day. The world has lost a great man today. I'm personally touched by the passing away of someone I have never even met, but whom I admired in a way I seldom do. Today, former Argentine president Nestor Kirchner passed away. He was only 60 years old. He died of a heart attack.

Nestor Kirchner (right), here with his wife Christina Fernandez and Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez
This came as a total shock to me, and I am still in shock. Friends and foes have agreed that he was a truly great leader; the man who pulled his country from an economic depression so severe, it could be compared to the Great Depression in the US in the 1930's. And he did so, not in a rigid neoliberal manner, cutting social programs to save money and to appease the International Monetary Fund. No, he stood up against the IMF, whose policies had created the crisis and he shielded the weak and the poor. He rescued his country and made it stronger.
Kirchner also was a friend to the homosexual community. He and his wife, now-president Christina Fernandez, pushed Congress agressively to implement laws that would ensure same-sex marriage would be legal in Argentina. With the help of their party in Congress, the Kirchners realized gay marriage earlier this year, as the first country in Latin-America.
I'm extremely upset that a great hero is no longer among us.
Néstor Kirchner: Argentina's independence hero
The death of Argentina's former president is a sad loss. His bold defiance of the IMF paved the way for South America's progress
The sudden death of Néstor Kirchner is a great loss, not only to Argentina but to the region and the world. Kirchner took office as president in May 2003, when Argentina was in the initial stages of its recovery from a terrible recession. His role in rescuing Argentina's economy is comparable to that of Franklin D Roosevelt in the Great Depression of the United States. Like Roosevelt, Kirchner had to stand up both to powerful moneyed interests and to most of the economics profession, which was insisting that his policies would lead to disaster. They were proved wrong, and Kirchner right.
Argentina's recession from 1998-2002 was, indeed, comparable to the Depression in terms of unemployment, which peaked at more than 21%, and lost output (about 20% of GDP). The majority of Argentines, who had, until then, enjoyed living standards among the highest in Latin America, were pushed below the poverty line. In December of 2002 and January 2003, the country underwent a massive devaluation, a world-historical record sovereign default on $95bn of debt, and a collapse of the financial system. Although some of the heterodox policies that ultimately ensured Argentina's rapid recovery were begun in the year before Kirchner took office, he had to follow them through some tough challenges to make Argentina the fastest-growing economy in the region.
One major challenge came from the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The IMF had been instrumental in bringing about the collapse – by supporting, among other bad policies, an overvalued exchange rate with ever-increasing indebtedness at rising interest rates. But when Argentina's economy inevitably collapsed, the IMF offered no help, just a series of conditions that would impede the economy's recovery.
The IMF was trying to get a better deal for the foreign creditor. Kirchner rightly refused its conditions, and the IMF refused to roll over Argentina's debt. In September of 2003, the battle came to a head when Kirchner temporarily defaulted to the IMF rather than accept its conditions. This was an extraordinarily gutsy move – no middle-income country had ever defaulted to the IMF; only a handful of failed or pariah states like Iraq or Congo. That's because the IMF was seen as having the power to cut off even trade credits to a country that defaulted to them. No one knew for sure what would happen. But the IMF backed down and rolled over the loans.
Argentina went on to grow at an average of more than 8% annually through 2008, pulling more than 11 million people, in a country of 40 million, out of poverty. The policies of the Kirchner government, including the central bank targeting of a stable and competitive real exchange rate, and taking a hard line against the defaulted creditors – were not popular in Washington or among the business press. But they worked.
Kirchner's successful face-off with the IMF came at a time when the fund was rapidly losing influence in the world, after its failures in the Asian economic crisis that preceded Argentina's collapse. It showed the world that a country could defy the IMF and live to tell about it, and contributed to the ensuing loss of IMF influence in Latin America and middle-income countries generally. Since the IMF was, at the time ,the most important avenue of Washington's influence in low-and-middle-income countries, this also contributed to the demise of US influence, especially over the recently independent countries of South America.
Kirchner also played a major role in consolidating this independence, working with the other left governments including Brazil, Venezuela, Ecuador and Bolivia. Through institutions such as UNASUR (the Union of South American Nations), Mercusor (the South American trading bloc), and numerous commercial agreements, South America was able to alter its trajectory dramatically.
This united bloc successfully backed Bolivia's government against an extra-parliamentary challenge from the right in 2008, and most recently stood behind Ecuador in that attempted coup there, a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, they did not succeed in overturning last year's military takeover in Honduras, where US backing for the coup government proved decisive. Argentina, together with UNASUR, still refuses to allow Honduras back into the OAS, despite heavy lobbying from Washington.
Kirchner also earned respect from human rights organisations for his willingness to prosecute and extradite some of the military officers accused of crimes against humanity during the 1976-1983 dictatorship – reversing the policies of previous governments. Together with his wife, current president Cristina Fernández, Néstor Kirchner made an enormous contribution in helping to move Argentina and the region in a progressive direction. These efforts have not generally won him much favour in Washington and in international business circles, but history will record him not only as a great president but also as an independence hero of Latin America.
Latin America mourns death of Argentine former president Kirchner
Buenos Aires - Heads of state in Latin America and beyond mourned Argentine former president Nestor Kirchner (2003-07), who died Wednesday of heart failure. Many South American leaders are expected to travel to Buenos Aires for Kirchner's funeral.
Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva decreed three days of official mourning in his country, saying he was 'dismayed' by the news. 'I always had a great ally and brotherly friend in him,' Lula said. 'His role in the economic, social, and political reconstruction of his country and his dedication in the fight for South American integration were notable.' Lula heard the news during a public event in southern Brazil and initially doubted the information.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a close ally of Kirchner's during his presidency, expressed sorrow and condolences for Nestor Kirchner's widow, Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner. 'Oh, my dear Cristina, ... how great the pain! What a big loss for Argentina and our America! Long live Kirchner forever!' Chavez write in his Twitter account.
US President Barack Obama offered 'sincere condolences' to the Argentine people and praised Kirchner's contributions to Argentina and South America. His and First Lady Michelle Obama's 'thoughts and prayers are with President Fernandez de Kirchner and their children,' Obama said.
Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said he was 'profoundly moved' by the death and sent a telegram to Kirchner's widow, addressing her as 'dear president, and friend Cristina.' 'The love of the entire Spanish people accompanies you in these moments of deep pain,' Zapatero's telegram read.
Chilean President Sebastian Pinera, who took office earlier this year, called Kirchner's death 'a great loss for Argentina and for all countries in South America.' 'My wife and I have developed a relationship of closeness and true friendship with President Cristina Fernandez and her late husband, so I am very strongly affected personally,' Pinera said. The Chilean Congress held a minute's silence in memory of Kirchner, as did the Organization of American States (OAS).
The Uruguayan government expressed its condolences, though President Jose Mujica declined to comment.
Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos said Kirchner's death was 'a great loss for the continent.' 'I had the chance in recent times to become good friends with him. He was always willing to make a contribution to improve our relations with the whole region, and always willing to improve the Colombian political environment,' Santos said.
Nestor Kirchner was surrounded by similar visionary leaders in his neighbouring countries, such as Lula da Silva in Brazil, Michelle Bachelet in Chile and Tabaré Vázquez in Uruguay. But you're absolutely right that he was an inspiring leader and indeed, in the bigger picture of today's world, he was an oddity. Luckily his widow Christina is now at the helm in Argentina.sotiris2006 wrote:It is indeed a sad day. He was such an inspiring leader; an oddity in the contemporary corrupted political sphere.
It feels so weird, because it was only a few weeks ago I was watching him in Oliver Stone's documentary South of the Border (2009), in which he revealed how George W. Bush tried to sell war as an economic policy to him. Bush paraphrased Gordon Gekko (ironically from Stone's Wall Street) by saying to Kirchner: "War is good!"
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- ajmrowland
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It's always the good ones that go first, and the bastards who get to live long and prosperous. Mugabe, Castro, Pinochet, Idi Amin: dictators now and then enjoy a long life, and the democrats die early. Jorge Videla, former head of Argentina's military dictatorship, is still alive and well, but the difference is, he's serving life in jail --because Nestor Kirchner put him there!ajmrowland wrote:







