The Little Mermaid III Discussion Vol. 2

[Siren]

By no means is it perfect, but after I saw TLM, that is what I came up with. If anyone steals my idea, I'll hurt them

One day I will write a fan fiction of that. Also, I know behind the scenes and the Broadway show, Ursula is Triton's sister, but at the time I came up with that, I didn't have that info.

[Disney's Divinity]

Not that your story's bad, but I find it very fanfiction-y. I don't think Ursula would or should be responsible for the death of Ariel's mother. If anything, that would've been what I'd dislike if they'd made that the film's backstory.

Now I would appreciate it if everyone would back off of Disney Duster, he's stating his honest opinions and he is very well entitled to do so REGARDLESS of whether or not you agree.

I never said he couldn't have an opinion (I've said in many posts that he can dislike the film all he wants), it's simply the way he states things that aggravates me. It's the difference between saying, "I think this is a bad film," and, "This is a bad film."

Just because he has a Cinderella bias means nothing, if this was a reverse situation and you were talking in the Cindy 3 thread with AB already out would you get off your Ariel bias? I doubt it.

The only reason I brought that up is that, from his posts, he seems to imply that the only reason people could possibly like anything about AB is because they like Ariel. When that really isn't the case for all of us, and I personally don't like being labeled.

. I'm glad to see people like Duster and Siren (Jeremy as well I believe) saying honest critisisms of this movie it's a VERY refreshing break from everyone else going "OH MY GOD this is so great it's the best thing next to sliced bread" posts. It's almost as if everyone in here would rather die than admit there's flaws in this bloody film.

Well, honestly, I haven't said there wouldn't be flaws, and I don't think I've read posts by anyone else who has said positive things about the film saying that it would be flawless. I, personally, just find it nice to read some positive posts between all the "this makes no sense," "this sucks," and "it just isn't good enough," as there seems to be more of the latter. Especially when the film hasn't even come out yet. People seem to be determined to hate this film regardless.

[Siren]

Considering Disney's past sequels/prequels...can you blame us for being critical? Its not like Disney puts out sequels that often are at the same level or exceed the original. A majority does neither and are only made to fuel more money, rather than actually give us a semblance of intelligent story writing.

In all truth, Disney insults our intelligence and the intelligence of children out there who watch these DTVs. There are a few that are awesome. Like Cinderella 3. But for every one really good one there are 3 craptacular ones. Disney has a fantastic writing team. Its been proven with some of their sequels. Whoever wrote Cinderella 3 and Bambi II, should be writing all of them.

You are getting upset over people's opinions on a movie. I really hope I can come on this board after I watch it and say, "That was an awesome movie! The animation was spot on. The story was perfect. The music was fantastic!"....Thus far everything I've seen, I doubt I will say any of that. I probably will say something like, "It was better than Tarzan II."

[jeremy88]

Yeah, its not that I completely hate this movie(not yet anyway) It just that everything I've seen about or related just doesn't point to anything spectacular. I'm hoping to be surprised though, as my hope is still somewhat there for it.

Well, the good news about this is that, even if this movie blows completely you can always rewatch The Little Mermaid and remember how amazing that one is.

[Old Fish Tale]

Has anyone read this?

[Chernabog_Rocks]

The only reason I brought that up is that, from his posts, he seems to imply that the only reason people could possibly like anything about AB is because they like Ariel. When that really isn't the case for all of us, and I personally don't like being labeled.

Honestly sometimes the way people talk in here it does come across that they only like this movie because of their love for TLM/Ariel. I'm not trying to label them BUT that's the impression I get when reading many posts. I'm not trying to say "oh your an Ariel fan so no wonder you love this" it's more of a "it feels like it"

Well, honestly, I haven't said there wouldn't be flaws, and I don't think I've read posts by anyone else who has said positive things about the film saying that it would be flawless. I, personally, just find it nice to read some positive posts between all the "this makes no sense," "this sucks," and "it just isn't good enough," as there seems to be more of the latter. Especially when the film hasn't even come out yet. People seem to be determined to hate this film regardless.[/quote]

Well it wasn't my intention to say you never said there wouldn't be flaws. I also didn't mean to single you out, I meant everyone in general in here.

Did you ever think people say "this makes no sense" "this sucks or "this isn't good enough" because it could be true? To me a lot of the plot does make no sense as I pointed out previously, I think Flounders new personality does suck, and I think the Catfish Club animation just isn't good enough quality and that the fans might not be getting what they really deserve.

I don't want to hate this film and at the moment I don't, I just think there's a lot of work and improvements that could and should be made to it to do it justice.

Siren, I enjoyed your fan fiction version it makes much more sense to me than this current plot and I'd love to read it when you write it

[jeremy88]

This is kind of off topic, but you know what irks me about the catfish club? How would they know about catfish when catfish are fresh water fish??? I'm pretty sure there are no species of salt water catfish...

[Chernabog_Rocks]

This is kind of off topic, but you know what irks me about the catfish club? How would they know about catfish when catfish are fresh water fish??? I'm pretty sure there are no species of salt water catfish...

I have two possible answers.

1) the Cat in Catfish Club could refer to the lingo as in "Cool Cat" etc.

2) Catfish live in inland and coastal waters, so it's not too much of a stretch if the Club was in a coastal water area. But you are correct, most are fresh water fish, usually living in shallow running water.

[Vermin Friends]

Not that your story's bad, but I find it very fanfiction-y. I don't think Ursula would or should be responsible for the death of Ariel's mother. If anything, that would've been what I'd dislike if they'd made that the film's backstory.

Now I would appreciate it if everyone would back off of Disney Duster, he's stating his honest opinions and he is very well entitled to do so REGARDLESS of whether or not you agree.

I never said he couldn't have an opinion (I've said in many posts that he can dislike the film all he wants), it's simply the way he states things that aggravates me. It's the difference between saying, "I think this is a bad film," and, "This is a bad film."

Just because he has a Cinderella bias means nothing, if this was a reverse situation and you were talking in the Cindy 3 thread with AB already out would you get off your Ariel bias? I doubt it.

The only reason I brought that up is that, from his posts, he seems to imply that the only reason people could possibly like anything about AB is because they like Ariel. When that really isn't the case for all of us, and I personally don't like being labeled.

. I'm glad to see people like Duster and Siren (Jeremy as well I believe) saying honest critisisms of this movie it's a VERY refreshing break from everyone else going "OH MY GOD this is so great it's the best thing next to sliced bread" posts. It's almost as if everyone in here would rather die than admit there's flaws in this bloody film.

Well, honestly, I haven't said there wouldn't be flaws, and I don't think I've read posts by anyone else who has said positive things about the film saying that it would be flawless. I, personally, just find it nice to read some positive posts between all the "this makes no sense," "this sucks," and "it just isn't good enough," as there seems to be more of the latter. Especially when the film hasn't even come out yet. People seem to be determined to hate this film regardless.

You are my new hero.

[Juuchan17]

Not that your story's bad, but I find it very fanfiction-y. I don't think Ursula would or should be responsible for the death of Ariel's mother. If anything, that would've been what I'd dislike if they'd made that the film's backstory.
I never said he couldn't have an opinion (I've said in many posts that he can dislike the film all he wants), it's simply the way he states things that aggravates me. It's the difference between saying, "I think this is a bad film," and, "This is a bad film."
The only reason I brought that up is that, from his posts, he seems to imply that the only reason people could possibly like anything about AB is because they like Ariel. When that really isn't the case for all of us, and I personally don't like being labeled.
Well, honestly, I haven't said there wouldn't be flaws, and I don't think I've read posts by anyone else who has said positive things about the film saying that it would be flawless. I, personally, just find it nice to read some positive posts between all the "this makes no sense," "this sucks," and "it just isn't good enough," as there seems to be more of the latter. Especially when the film hasn't even come out yet. People seem to be determined to hate this film regardless.

You are my new hero.

Ditto that.

I mean, I'll at least watch a film before judging it, but as I said eariler (or I think I said anyway), TLM:AB looks much better animation-wise than its sequel (I don't consider AB as TLM3 . . . it's a prequel, darn it.), but I dunno . . . maybe once I watch it myself, the story will surprise me (although I know the basics of it, thanks to the picture book of it).

True, it won't be perfect (because seriously, what is?), but I think it'll be a fine send-off for the DTV continuations.

And other thing, to Siren: I think that sounds much better than what seems to be the cause of Athena's demise in AB. Write that, plz. I'd read it any day.

- Juuchan17

[Disney Duster]

Sorry, this will be long.

BIG NOTE: Some people have noted I don't write "I think" or "in my opinion" when I say something. That's because it's coming from me, obviously I don't speak for everyone, but also because, in most cases, I believe something is really that way. Like, I see some of the animation as bad, just like I see the color of something is blue. And actually, people can argue about colors, too. Often I will say something is one color and someone else says it's another color. This is just an example to explain what I mean.

And the Prince? Maybe they gave him more depth, but they obviously didn't hold on to the original character (in design or characterization).

I read your whole post, but I quoted this because it was so true and not what anyone has seemed to notice.

As for Tremaine, well, her gaining ultimate magical power made her more of a threat, then Cinderella had to step up and become more of a threat to her, and then she had to be more of a threat. She had to get bigger and badder. But other than that, the film can be taken as an alternate reality (we can pretend all the sequels are, but this one actually deals with the idea), and the character changes and other changes can be accounted for in that everything different. But more than that, the characters changing after how they were in the original film is less blasphemous than saying the characters acted a totally different way before becoming what they were in the original. One example I made was how obscene it would be to say the stepfamily was totally good before the prequel came up with some reason to make them the villains in the original. That's just an example to say what I mean.

As for everything you said about the animation, well said. Don't know if I agree with everything, especially since I think AB's backgrounds are beautiful and can contend with ornate palace interiors, but well said.

It may not be a great film, but neither is any sequel Disney's given us thus far. And excuse me for possibly enjoying it, as your Cinderella bias couldn't possibly be any better than my Ariel bias.

But Disney has given us a great sequel so far, Cinderella III. As for our biases, it's true I have one, but when trying not to let it get in the way and comparing CIII with AB, I legitimately see CIII as being better than AB in many ways.

Chernabog_Rocks waves of internet forum love from me to you. I can't believe you defended me and helped me out so much. I should try to do the same for you, but you are well liked on here and not as much of an opinionated post whore like me, LOL.

Well, for the pirates, I don't think they're that bad. It kind of gives a reason to only hate certain "bad" humans, not all humans. Except...Ariel won't even know about it. So...I don't know, I don't think they're random, but I think the Pirates franchise has something to do with it (even Pirates of the Caribbean sounding music!)

Hm, Marina may have been a "make it up as we go" thing...she sure seems like it, you're right.

I think the animation flows sometimes, and is stilted and choppy other times. And I don't remember any problems like that in CIII, and I bet it wasn't in the Stitch or Bambi sequels. OMG laughing gas, I think I laughed at that before but it's still funny.

Middle sequel? I don't know what you would classify as a middle sequel, and I haven't watched enough of them. Maybe it's the end spectrum of the better ones, or a middle one. We'll have to see.

Triton banning music because he seems to think music caused his wife's death is so far from who Triton was in the second movie its not funny.

Actually, I think he hates humans because they got Athena killed (somehow), but he bans music because it reminds him of his wife. Less lame, but still Sound of Music and Footloose.

Did you really have that story figured before TLK?! That's really surprising since they're not that far apart. You just loved the film so much you thought it out over time? Were you planning on writing something...?

Yes, your plot is better than this prequel, except I like the music box and Athena, I would want something associated with remembering Athena.

Did you read MY PLOT (I'm trying to draw attention...sorry, you got a lot of attention, I'm jealous), it's the second to last post of page 47. It's really similar to yours, actually, but with more on remembering Athena. And I like my more evil, magic-using, battling Ursula.

I don't think Ursula would or should be responsible for the death of Ariel's mother. If anything, that would've been what I'd dislike if they'd made that the film's backstory.

You had that problem with mine, too. I'm curious why, you love Ursula. Also, I think it fits to have old characters return with old villains, and it's not a stretch to think the same evil that hurt you in the past continues to, it's more epic and feels all cool in a movie.

The only reason I brought that up is that, from his posts, he seems to imply that the only reason people could possibly like anything about AB is because they like Ariel. When that really isn't the case for all of us, and I personally don't like being labeled.

Well, at first I did say people only seemed to like this because of Ariel, because in the trailer there wasn't anything good except Athena's part and lots of Ariel doing what she does best. But honestly, you were the one saying it's the Ariel we know and love, that's why this will be good. Most posts are about how great it is to see Ariel again, acting and looking like she was in the first film again. No one has said anything good or liked anything about the actual plot accept for Athena, which I like and think is good, too.

Honestly sometimes the way people talk in here it does come across that they only like this movie because of their love for TLM/Ariel. I'm not trying to label them BUT that's the impression I get when reading many posts. I'm not trying to say "oh your an Ariel fan so no wonder you love this" it's more of a "it feels like it"

Exactly! Chernabog said it so exceptionally well. I remember talking about how excited I was for the plot of Cinderella III, as well as the animation. I mean, Cinderella's actually not my most favorite character ever, I might like Lucifer or the Fairy Godmother more. I was talking more about the actual movie. I think I have less character bias than the Ariel fans. Notice I said "I think" this time...

[MerXAN]

Okaaay.....Maybe you guys can start a new thread:



Ariel Fans VS Cindy Fans Thread

[Mooky]

Okaaay.....Maybe you guys can start a new thread:



Ariel Fans VS Cindy Fans Thread

But seriously, I think both sides are right. IMO, "Cinderella III" is truly amazing, but we should wait until "Ariel's Beginning" comes out to see if it's good or bad. I admit I'm disappointed with some of the things about AB, but I'll definitely give it a shot. It might surprise me.

Btw, Siren, I love your idea!

[Super Aurora]

Okaaay.....Maybe you guys can start a new thread:



Ariel Fans VS Cindy Fans Thread

What can you do. Those two are the two most popular princesses. Even in Japan.

[Siren]

Did you really have that story figured before TLK?! That's really surprising since they're not that far apart. You just loved the film so much you thought it out over time? Were you planning on writing something...?

Yes, your plot is better than this prequel, except I like the music box and Athena, I would want something associated with remembering Athena.

Did you read MY PLOT (I'm trying to draw attention...sorry, you got a lot of attention, I'm jealous), it's the second to last post of page 47. It's really similar to yours, actually, but with more on remembering Athena. And I like my more evil, magic-using, battling Ursula.

I did not read your plot before. I will soon, sometime tonight when I have a bit more time.

And yes, I thought it up before TLK. Ursula had said she lived in the palace and it didn't sound like she did so as a servant, but as someone with power, with connections to be part of those fantastical feasts. So I assumed she was an adviser. Or someone else of political power. I never then assumed she was his sister, due to their heavy difference in the looks department. I thought up the idea that she had some power in Atlantica and the absence of Ariel's mother and Ursula being banished may have had a connection. So I thought up the idea of Ursula causing Ariel's mother to be killed. I couldn't think she was simply captured or captured dead even. Since in the movie, we see Eric and Grimsby don't believe in tales of mermen and mermaids, which means no one had proof of their existence. If the humans captured her alive or dead and took her, they would likely believe they existed. I figured maybe fishermen mistook her silhouette under the water for a dolphin or sea lion. Fishermen have a long history of killing their "competition" to this very day and perhaps they threw a harpoon into the water, struck her, and she died from that.

Understand TLM is my favorite Anderson tale. Heck, I'd say its my favorite fairy tale of all of them. It was so tragic and bittersweet. Same with Little Matchgirl. I love Anderson's work. So when Disney did it and changed so much, leaving many questions unanswered, I came up with my own answers.

And I never said Ursula wasn't using magic and battling in my story. I just never developed it far enough. Big reason I never wrote it, I never could come up with a good ending. To end it on a good note. Also, Ariel is barely in my story. When you are writing a fan fiction of Disney's Little Mermaid, people want Ariel. I still haven't been able to come up with how I could write her more into it, while still keeping her very young.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, I forgot to say Disney's Divinity I also am not judging from stills, but actual clips, trailers, commercials. And Chernabog_Rocks is right, The Little Mermaid is one of my favorite movies, probably still my second favorite.

Okay Siren, thanks! You know, when people found out Ursula was Triton's sister, they noticed it made her a lot like Scar, brother of Mufasa with some power but who wants to rule the whole kingdom.

Hm, interesting about your ideas and thoughts on TLM.

Well, if you read my story I fit in some Ariel, so let me know what you think!

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I mean, I'll at least watch a film before judging it, but as I said eariler (or I think I said anyway), TLM:AB looks much better animation-wise than its sequel (I don't consider AB as TLM3 . . . it's a prequel, darn it.), but I dunno . . . maybe once I watch it myself, the story will surprise me (although I know the basics of it, thanks to the picture book of it).

Ok here's what I'm having a problem with, I believe as far as I can remember Siren, Disney Duster and I have all said that this could be a GOOD film. I know I've said it a lot that this could be one of the better ones. So we aren't saying "oh we hate it this is stupid" or "this is going to be the worst" far from it. All we're doing is pointing out the things that we see wrong with it. You know I would point out a lot of things I like about this film if I've actually seen anything so far, so far the things I've seen have not impressed me. Does that mean the film as a whole will be lackluster to me? No, just what I've seen isn't.

Thought I'd clear that up, I'm tired of being looked at in this thread like some monster because I'm actually willing to point out the flaws that I see instead of pretend they aren't there and only focus on the good things. That's the vibe I'm getting in this thread. Agree or not that's what I feel.

Disney Duster: I agree about what you said regarding Tremaine having to be bigger and badder but I'll go more in depth in that somewhere else. Also thanks for the internet forum love, I didn't really want to sit back and lurk anymore. Not sure how liked I am actually I post randomly and can be opinionated when I want.

It's not so much the Pirates as "bad humans" are random it's just the pirates part, if it were normal sailors that evil it would make sense. But when I see Pirates or hear that word I think of a certain trilogy and my mind goes "Huh?"

I want Marina to be a good villain, I want all villains to be good actually but so far she's around the same level as the Yodeling Cowboy (which is low in my standards)

Oh one last thing: Internet forum love to Disney Duster for his last paragraph in his big post, it made my day, well his whole post did but that last paragraph more so

[Siren]

Thanks for defending me, yukitora!

Anyway, Disney's Divinity, first off, it's arguable Eric loved Ariel for her voice. It does seem he could have loved her for rescuing him, and her voice. But, the idea was that Ariel could get the prince to love her without her voice, somehow her personality, her true self to be loved, would shine through. Whether Eric's kiss would be of true love in that lagoon is a mystery, Ursula probably just didn't want any chance of it so she stopped it. But when Eric is enchanted when he hears the voice in Vanessa, an disenchanted when he hears the voice in Ariel, it's evidence he will only love the combination of the girl who rescued him and the voice, and perhaps the girl he's been with and been happy with for three days. Or, it's just Ariel!

Also, I want movies' plots to touch on the original films' plots. You see, more people were complaining that a lot of movies just repeated the same exact plot in reverse, or flip-flopped, or just with different characters. That's what The Little Mermaid II did. What I, and I think a lot of people want is a plot that deals with the same things that happened in the first film, and is close to as powerful as the first film, but the same exact events don't happen. Or maybe I wouldn't even mind something that has events similar to the original, but are still different. Ursula made who knows how many similar deals with other merpeople before Ariel. What if Athena wanted to see the human world, and Ursula decides to grant her wish if she signs a contract trading her right to the throne. EDIT: Well, she wouldn't give up being queen, maybe just trade the ability to use the trident, whatever power Athena has to use the trident, read on, you'll see why. So Ursula takes Athena to the surface when a ship comes by, and in a spell full of magical light flashes that looks like a lightning storm to the humans, Athena is transformed into a rare fish. The humans capture it, and it is so rare they intend to keep it alive in a bowl, and Athena gets to see the human world in a way she never wanted. Ursula goes back to tell the kingdom Athena was captured by the humans, skipping the turning into a fish part, and they don't know what the humans would do with a mermaid, so they believe it. Ursula can't just take the throne, but the trident, which is needed to control the sea, can't work without a king and a queen. She convinces Triton to let her be queen, perhaps by demonstrating only she is able to work the trident with him (as in Triton chose Athena partly because she had some ability to work the trident...sort of like fitting the glass slipper. Let's call it "her love of the sea", which makes sense, since she would give up love of the sea to be with humans). She casts spells on Triton to let her use the trident and rule the kingdom however she wants. The kingdom is unhappy under her rule, but then Ariel sets out to prove her father doesn't have to keep Ursula, and should remember her mother, and not be emotionless, and eventually Triton learns to remember and let his emotions out over his wife, and keeping his wife in his heart lets him control the trident from then on, 'cause it's like the queen's still with him, and Ursula is banished, especially since they discover she used spells on him (and she was mostly only able to because he was vulnerable).

And of course Ariel could spend a good deal remembering her mother, then discovering more about her and what happened to her, before she tries to get her father to do the same. Maybe she finds out her mother secretly loved human things, which makes her think that's how she got to the surface to get killed, but her mother writes in a secret diary (I know, I know...) that one time a child fishing caught her tail with a hook, and she realized humans aren't bad, they're just like us, but they could accidentally harm merpeople (maybe she tries to tell Triton, but once he hears she got "snared by a fish-eaters hook", he starts getting too emotional, angry or sad or both). So Ariel realizes her mother could have accidentally gotten killed by humans, and starts liking and getting interested in humans. She tries to tell her dad, but he refuses to talk about how Athena died, just how she lived, the happy memories. So that's why they don't talk about it afterward.

If Athena being a fish in a bowl or tank until she dies doesn't sit well, consider Ursula turns her into a wooden mermaid on the prow of the ship, so she can "see" the human world. It's like the sleeping death, dead but still alive. The movie flashes forward to after Ariel and Eric are married (and after Melody I guess), and Triton recognizes the mermaid on the bow of one of Eric's ships. With a wave of his trident, she's Athena again. Everyone rejoices at her return. It's a very tearful reunion for Triton, Ariel, and her sisters. The movie is a prequel with a little sequel, and comes full circle. It could even be the mermaid on the bow of the ship in the original movie, fitting in even more with the original classic.

Maybe you still don't get what I mean, but anyway, I liked The Little Mermaid II and will most likely like it better than this prequel, because at least it actually talked of Ursula and the seperation and joining of the land and the sea. Yes it was very much like the original film in many ways. Well...yea, I liked the original, so I'd like something like the original.

Okay, finally got a chance to read this and I quoted it because I think if I missed it, others did too. 100% I would rather see your idea in this movie than Disney's own writers. I think the idea of Ursula turning Athena into a rare fish is fantastic and reminds me of Aesop's fables....be careful what you wish for. And would show where Ariel gets some of her personality traits from.

[gumby17]

Has anyone read this?

thx! I've been anxiously waiting for the first review!!!

[jeremy88]

*Claps* I'll definitely say it again...fans right the best backhistory and stories...

Anyways, I've decided I'm not going to post here again until I watch this movie. When I watch, I will give my thoughts and opinions.