R.I.P. Democracy in the United States 1776-12/17/2004

I am the Doctor · Post by **I am the Doctor** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:43 am

I don't normally like to post on political subjects but this one just cannot be passed over and ignored.

A Tacoma, Washington judge ruled on Friday that legally cast votes in King County (Seattle area) cannot be counted during the recount in Washington state's governor's race. The last recount had the Republican candidate ahead by only 42 votes out of over 2 million cast.

If this ruling is left to stand-democracy as we know it is dead. The Republican party should be ashamed of themselves, they should be among the first to ask that all legally cast ballots be counted, if they believe in democracy. If these votes are counted, there is an excellent chance that the Democratic candidate could win the governors race since Seattle is a largely Democratic area.

When one exercises their legal right to vote-one expects that vote to count-beaucratic errors should not come into play. If King County messed up by invalidating these votes but discovers their error-these votes should count.

This isn't even about such things as hanging chads and butterfly ballots such as in 2000. It's about not even counting ballots. Just think how you would feel if it was your vote that would not be counted-think about how angry you would feel.

Republicans and Democrats alike should be sending an unequivocal message to the Washington state Supreme court-who will hear the appeal:

COUNT THE VOTES, OR DEMOCRACY IS DEAD!

I'm sorry about the shouting-but I feel very strongly about this.

msadrakula · Post by **msadrakula** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:54 pm

maybe they can hang out with those people in Florida or all those other people in the ghetto of America that were "disenfranchised"

What a joke... if you don't win, just keep counting and counting until something goes your way.

You'll be better off with a (R) Governor anyways; unless your a dependent on the state.

karlsen · Post by **karlsen** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:31 am

I don't know this case in particular but there might be good reasons to have a recount of votes.

If the first counting could be wrong, it would not be fear to not count again. What can you loose?

I can understand that those on the side with the winner don't want to count it again and that those that were on the other side would want to but if there is a chanse that it was counted wrong the first time then you should count again in my oppinion.

bmadigan · Post by **bmadigan** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:43 am

As Boss Tweed said in The Gangs of New York, "Remember the first rule of politics. The ballots don't make the results, the counters make the results. The counters. Keep counting! "

Oldyeller · Post by **Oldyeller** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:25 am

I believe they already counted the votes twice. He lost

Maerj · Post by **Maerj** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:54 pm

msadrakula wrote:
You'll be better off with a (R) Governor anyways; unless your a dependent on the state.

That's right, the Republican party doesn't care about the poor. I agree with that.

MickeyMouseboy · Post by **MickeyMouseboy** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:29 pm

The War on Terrorism? It should be called The War for Oil and Killing of Innocent people who didnt have anything to do with 911! Where are the supposed weapons of mass destruction? Last time i heard Sadam didnt have $*** when they searched him! I can't believe we have a murderer as a president.

Sir Hawkins · Post by **Sir Hawkins** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:14 pm

I am the doctor, how about you go ahead and give ALL the information instead of just your agenda. Tell everyone exactly WHY the votes may or may not be counted. The way you put it does sound like another governmental sham, but that's because you have an agenda.

MickeyMouseboy wrote:I can't believe we have a murderer as a president.

Hmm so you would say GWB is the equilivent of somebody like, say, Dommer, Manson, McVeigh,, The Boston Strangler, etc. etc. Hmm that's very interesting. It shows you're completely ignorant and probably not over 12 years old, but also interesting nonetheless.

karlsen · Post by **karlsen** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:30 pm

Sir Hawkins wrote:
MickeyMouseboy wrote:I can't believe we have a murderer as a president.
Hmm so you would say GWB is the equilivent of somebody like, say, Dommer, Manson, McVeigh,, The Boston Strangler, etc. etc. Hmm that's very interesting. It shows you're completely ignorant and probably not over 12 years old, but also interesting nonetheless.

You obviosly does not follow your own countrys political views if you state that people with the oppinion that MMB has must be 12.

Altough I don't agree with him in his statement I can clearly see see that you have not at all understood him.

There is a big diffrence between murderers. Some does it because they have gotten a message from God (the mad one), some kills because of politics (the politic nut), someone kill others when they have been drinking or by accident (the drunk killer).

There is a big diffrence between killers and when MMB states that GWB is a murderer then it is realy far away from what you state and you are totaly wrong when you say that MMB seas that GWB is equilivent to mass murderes that you list.

The largest problem right now is everybody that does not accept those that might have another oppinion of the war then themselves.

Sir Hawkins · Post by **Sir Hawkins** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:49 pm

karlsen wrote: The largest problem right now is everybody that does not accept those that might have another oppinion of the war then themselves.

Not at all. I'm getting very sick and tired of people's accusations of intolerance of other peoples views just because you say a completely inflamatory statement is out of line. I have every respect for others peoples viewpoints, even ones that disagree with mine. That's what makes America great. By the way you have no idea what my political stance on the war is. I happen to be a conservative republican AGAINST the war. I don't think it's America's job to police the world, and at the expense of thousands of American lives. BUT, I also thought MMB's statement was completely outrageous and, yes again, ignorant. If the only news you get is Moveon.org and Michael Moore, than yes I suppose it would be easy to see GWB as a murderur. If that's the case, MMB, than I guess I can't accuse you of being completely ignorant, just ignorant of the other side of the story.

Sorry for getting in a tizzy, I'm done on this topic. I'd rather stay friends with everyone (or at least most of the people) on this board

MickeyMouseboy · Post by **MickeyMouseboy** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:59 pm

sorry Sir Hawkins but i dont feed of the American news, which don't show you the truth of the war and it's true purpose. I have 2 friends that have been there. and have confirmed my statement. Bush is a greedy murderer! So sorry you're brainwashed and blind to see it! I pity you! you can call anything you want if it makes you feel better. That doesn't make you any better than Bush!

and as I have stated to someone in this forum about my Bush Theory, well before farenheit 911 came out, I was in the right! It doesn't take a real brain to see behind Bush true intentions! I want to see the weapons of mass destruction that they went in to get? where are they Sir Hawkins? Where's Bin Laden? the truth is there was never weapons there. It took Bush 2 weeks after 911 to take action by then Bin Laden was very far from afghanistan! you should really see farenheit 911 cause it's very informative. It's not Michael Moore's opinion since he uses broadcast images from TV to prove his point. Parents that have received letters from their sons/daughters, he went to Irak the day before the bombing, he interviews soldiers there and uses real footage on how our so called "soldiers" maltreat innocent people! Im ashamed to live in this country and have such a hypocrite in office and a bunch of corrupt people running this country! You should go to BBC.com and other international site which tell you the truth!

I am the Doctor · Post by **I am the Doctor** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:09 pm

Sir Hawkins wrote

I am the doctor, how about you go ahead and give ALL the information instead of just your agenda. Tell everyone exactly WHY the votes may or may not be counted. The way you put it does sound like another governmental sham, but that's because you have an agenda.

Yes, these votes (in the Washington governor's race) were originally considered invalid by the King county elections office. The elections office went back and double-checked and now considers these ballots to be valid. Even election workers can make mistakes, can't they? That would be the Democratic argument.

The Republican argument is why did these votes suddenly show up with the governor's race so close and at such a late date?

Regardless of which of these is true (and more importantly which argument wins out in court)-it shows that vote manipulation is not just something that happens in places like Ukraine-it can happen here in the good ol' USA.

bmadigan wrote

As Boss Tweed said in The Gangs of New York, "Remember the first rule of politics. The ballots don't make the results, the counters make the results. The counters. Keep counting! "

Unfortunately, still so true.

Mr. Toad · Post by **Mr. Toad** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:04 am

Looks like justice was done. Final recount Gregoire by 8, count em 8 votes.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... or_recount

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R.I.P. Democracy in the United States 1776-12/17/2004

R.I.P. Democracy in the United States 1776-12/17/2004