'Pocahontas' and 'Lilo & Stitch' 2-Disc Specs - UPDATED

[meekochick]

[quote="Disneykid"]It's kinda sorta new. The scene actually wasn't completely finished. Some shots made it to final colorization, but other shots only made it to rough or clean-up animation, and I think a couple of shots of Meeko and Percy only made it to storyboards. So it's not simply a case of inserting a completely existing scene back into the film; Disney had to actually put effort into it, coloring the animation and presumably creating new animation for the shots involving the sidekicks.[/quote]

Don't believe everything you see on TV. The version that you are decribing was shown on ABC's Wonderful World of Disney. They wanted give the public closer look at how the animation process works. I'm not saying that touch up animation did not have to be done, but for the most part the sequence was finished. If you take a closer look during the film you can see a small jump in the footage. After John said "...than live a hundred years without knowing you," Nakoma appears and our two main characters are in a completly different position. That is because the song "If I Never Know You" was to begin at that moment. The version we see is during the song's break. But in the true version The two just shared a passionate kiss and Nakoma breaks it up. That's why Pocahontas and John look different two seconds later. If the song was cut earlier, I believe Disney would have taken the time to create new animation to fix the error. I was 13 when the movie was released and I noticed the mistake then. However I am curious to see how far some of the other sequences made it before they hit the cutting room floor. Does anyone know? :)

[Joe Carioca]

However I am curious to see how far some of the other sequences made it before they hit the cutting room floor. Does anyone know?

There was some finished animation that was deleted from the film, mostly humorous bits involving Wiggins and Percy and an alternate ending to the Raticliffe song (an open shot showing the destruction of the forest). Besides those bits, the "major" deleted scenes didn't pass the storyboard phase (with the exception of "If I Never Knew You", of course).

[meekochick]

[quote="Joe Carioca"][quote="meekochick"]However I am curious to see how far some of the other sequences made it before they hit the cutting room floor. Does anyone know? :)[/quote]

There was some finished animation that was deleted from the film, mostly humorous bits involving Wiggins and Percy and an alternate ending to the Raticliffe song (an open shot showing the destruction of the forest). Besides those bits, the "major" deleted scenes didn't pass the storyboard phase (with the exception of "If I Never Knew You", of course).[/quote]

Thanks for the Help!

[Disneykid]

Don't believe everything you see on TV. The version that you are decribing was shown on ABC's Wonderful World of Disney. They wanted give the public closer look at how the animation process works. I'm not saying that touch up animation did not have to be done, but for the most part the sequence was finished. If you take a closer look during the film you can see a small jump in the footage. After John said "...than live a hundred years without knowing you," Nakoma appears and our two main characters are in a completly different position. That is because the song "If I Never Know You" was to begin at that moment. The version we see is during the song's break. But in the true version The two just shared a passionate kiss and Nakoma breaks it up. That's why Pocahontas and John look different two seconds later. If the song was cut earlier, I believe Disney would have taken the time to create new animation to fix the error. I was 13 when the movie was released and I noticed the mistake then. However I am curious to see how far some of the other sequences made it before they hit the cutting room floor. Does anyone know?

Hmm...you sure about that? I got my copy of the scene off of a Pocahontas fansite which supposedly ripped the scene off of the laserdisc. In my copy, most of the scene is complete, but a few shots here and there are in rough or clean-up animation. I have to check it again, but I could've sworn there was a shot or two involving Meeko and Percy entering the hut and they were only in storyboard form. The site I got it from could've been wrong, though. Also in that version, the song starts right after "I'd rather die tomorrow than live 100 years without knowing you," Nakoma interrupts after the song swells to its highpoint, then after Pocahontas leaves, the song finishes. It seemed to fit perfectly the way I just said it. Or maybe I just misread what you said?

[Joe Carioca]

I've seen the deleted scene from at least three different sources (including the LD), and they were all exactly like Disneykid discribed them.

[meekochick]

[size=9][size=9][quote]Hmm...you sure about that? I got my copy of the scene off of a Pocahontas fansite which supposedly ripped the scene off of the laserdisc. In my copy, most of the scene is complete, but a few shots here and there are in rough or clean-up animation. I have to check it again, but I could've sworn there was a shot or two involving Meeko and Percy entering the hut and they were only in storyboard form. The site I got it from could've been wrong, though. Also in that version, the song starts right after "I'd rather die tomorrow than live 100 years without knowing you," Nakoma interrupts after the song swells to its highpoint, then after Pocahontas leaves, the song finishes. It seemed to fit perfectly the way I just said it. Or maybe I just misread what you said?[/quote][/quote][/size][/size]

[[size=12]size=12]You are right about where the song started. I have both th[/size]e laser disc and the recording on TV. I think my post was confusing. I just have a hard time believing Disney wouldn't have fixed the "jump" in the middle of the scene unless the song was cut tremendously late in the game. If some of the sequence was still in storyboard form, they would've had time to change 10 seconds of the film. In truth, I can't be 100% sure. But deep down I have to believe that this is the case. I would be heartbroken if the animation was as "seamless" as "The Morning Report," in the Lion King, or "Human Again," in Beauty and the Beast. The new animation on both those scenes were completly different then the rest of the film. Even if they used Glene Keane and John Pomeroy again, their drawings would be still be different. It's not worse...It' just different. They don't have the same clean-up people, there are other projects on their minds, not to mention it's 10 years later! Ok... I am upsetting myself. But those of you that saw the horror done to the Lion King will understand my plite.(I think thats how you spell that)"If I Never Knew You," Both the song and sequence, is my favorite moment from any Disney film...And is wasn't even in the movie!!! [/size]
Hoping for the best,
meekochick

[DreamerQ18]

Wow gone for about a month and I have missed so much. These movies look so freaking awsome I better save up some major money seems like next year is going to be a HUGE year for Disney I just cant wait!!! Thanks Loomis for all tyhe great pictures and all the 411 you ROCK!

[PocahontasPride]

there are also many alternate scenes between pocahontas and john smith, the alerante to steady as the beating drum was 'dancing to the wedding drums' in one of the orignal ideas to the story, Pocahontas and Koccum were already engaged and getting ready for the wedding. There is also an extremly corny song between Pocahontas and John Smith called 'In The Middle of the River', a scene where John Smith almost escapes the 'savages' but as he reaches a cannoe he gets recaptured, then as everyone said the If I Never Knew You Son, that should of NEVER been cut.

[tdr141]

Loomis, how does the picture quality look on the Pocahontas DVD? Is it decent? Also, I've been dying to know how the insertion of "If I never knew you is". Does the animation match the rest of the movie, and is it any different from the unfinished version?

[Teen Artist]

I can't wait for these DVD's to come out! Both of them are great. I'm glad I won't have to double dip since I never purchased the previous DVD releases for the movies.

Don't believe everything you see on TV. The version that you are decribing was shown on ABC's Wonderful World of Disney. They wanted give the public closer look at how the animation process works.

I knew that I had seen an animated(or semi-animated) version of "If I Never Knew You" somewhere! Thanks for confirming that for me.

[Jordan]

Well I knew it I haven't heard about a new sequence included in the film... : now I can confirm you that there ain't anyhting included in the French 2-Dsic Collector Edition of Pocahontas, released in 2 weeks.
Indeed, the first reviews are out, and there's nothing about an all-new song integrated into the film.
I don't about the other countries... Maybe, the US won't have it either...
As for me, I don't really care but it's an observation

[DanV]

Jordan, check out this menu shot: http://www.dvdrama.com/menus/pocahontascoll005.jpg

The Special Edition IS included on the French version.

[Disneykid]

I'm a little worried. The screencaps from that french site are very fuzzy and have lots of edge enhancement and noise. I wonder if that's the result of a poor DVD screencap system, or the DVD itself. Only Loomis can let us know for sure. ::spotlight on Loomis::

[Joe Carioca]

I'm a little worried. The screencaps from that french site are very fuzzy and have lots of edge enhancement and noise. I wonder if that's the result of a poor DVD screencap system, or the DVD itself. Only Loomis can let us know for sure. ::spotlight on Loomis::

I wouldn't be so worried Disneykid - check out other DVD reviews from DVD Rama and you will see they aren't very good on making good quality screen caps. But after seeing the poor compression job done on "Mulan" I'm also a bit worried about "Pocahontas".

[disneywb]

The picture looks like concept art to me- maybe they're going with a more artistic look for the Pocahontas menus. I would certainly support that idea, as it makes it look a little nicer when the menu art is cruder (ironic, n'est-ce pas?).

[Disneykid]

I'm not basing my comment off of that menu cap, though. I'm basing it off of these...

[Joe Carioca]

I'm not basing my comment off of that menu cap, though. I'm basing it off of these...

Yeah, me too.

Regarding the DVD menus, I really like Disney is using this more artistic aproach for their special editions. They've done it for "Tarzan", "Alice In Wonderland" and "Mulan" and it seems they are doing it again for "Pocahontas" and "Lilo & Stitch". Very nice indeed.

[deathie mouse]

Those jpegs are fairly highly compressed (ranging from 41:1 to 71:1 on the few I sampled) and since the image size is small (bigger images can be compressed lots more than smaller images) it might account for them looking that way apart or in addition of the quality of the original captures before resizing and jpeging...

Full res captures without resizing 480 x 720 ntsc and 576 x 720 pal and little compresion are best for judging image quality

Also, remember that still captures show much more grain, noise, and mpeg compression artifacts than moving images, sometimes 4 to 6 times more.

Hopefully the transfer looksa bettah

[Sh00tingstar]

woohoo! i didnt realise these were being released here on thursday! or wednesday for u American gurls and bois!

im so excited, plus i get $5 off each with my discount card at my local dvd stockist:) shaaawheet!

boy its a big week for me- mulan SE, Lilo and stitch SE and pocahontas SE!!

[DanV]

I just got the Australian edition, and the image quality is spectacular. I'm pretty sure it's a digital transfer and it's very good. I think this is the reworked IMAX-edition and sometimes it feels a little too clean, like the Platinum Edition of 'Beauty and the Beast' which looked like a DTV at some points.
This is most noticeable in the added 'If I Never Knew You' sequence, which fits in seamlessly. This is the way the movie always should've been, it's wonderful. I'm pretty sure Mel Gibson's vocals have been re-recorded for this version, when compared to the half finished/storyboard version, and the animation of Pocahontas in this piece is beautiful.

Update:
I just noticed the ending has been changed as well! The 'If I Never Knew You' reprises are back in the scene where John's about to go on board to go back to England!
Wow... The SE is sooo good...