Cinderella (Live-Action)

[Vlad]

Oh, I agree with you, Duster. The original Cinderella is way sassier and more fun. In fact, all three original Princesses were kinda sassy, weren't they? Snow White was lovingly teasing the dwarfs, and Aurora is all playful when asking the fairies what they're up to.

[Disney's Divinity]

@Duster: I'd never heard they ever even considered bringing Menken onto this project. I would've loved that, as long as they still included the original songs (even if some were resigned to the credits or something). That reminds me of how I used to dream that they would bring Menken onto a TP&TF remake or TV series to give her the Menken theme she would've had if he hadn't been pushed out for Newman. It would definitely be interesting to imagine a Menken song for Cinderella (or SW or Aurora for that matter).

[UmbrellaFish]

Around the release of the film, I read somewhere that Alan Menken said he thought the 2015 Cinderella would have been even better as a musical (although I can no longer find this online). Which then led me to speculate how wonderful a Cinderella with Menken music might have been. But AFAIK it was never actually something considered for the movie.

[PatchofBlue]

Duster, I got the idea that her reacting to Drisella's singing was more of an involuntary impulse than a deliberate choice or something she was trying to do behind her back. She even looks apologetic and sheepish after she realizes Tremaine noticed her reaction.

And maybe I'm overlooking some line or something, but was Cinderella really pretending to be a princess? I felt like it was more a case of Kit naturally made some assumptions about her, and she just didn't bother to correct him? More of a sin of omission than an act of intentional deception.

And, yes, Menken could make any songbook even better.

[Sotiris]

While Menken was never attached to the live-action Cinderella remake, he does have a few connections with the fairy tale and Disney film.

• He took part in a Cinderella play as a kid.

In honor of World Theatre Day, here's a throwback photo of my mother, my sister and me performing in some version of a Cinderella story.

Source: https://x.com/AIMenken/status/1772996910128808422

• He cites Cinderella as one of the movies he would watch growing up.

When I was a child, Disney was just about the greatest artistic influence in our lives at that time. I grew up seeing Dumbo, Cinderella, Fantasia, Lady and the Tramp — these were great experiences. I realized as a child the influence of music on those projects.

Source: https://cnmsarchive.wordpress.com/2015/ ... an-menken/

• He cites Cinderella as one of the movies he would watch with his daughter after becoming a father.

I would sit with her on the couch and all the Disney classics had come out on VHS. I was putting in Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty or Peter Pan and just sitting with her. Watching them and going this is the ultimate safe space in the world. You just felt it. I felt that from that material.

Source: https://culturalattache.co/2024/01/02/a ... own-works/

• He was set to write a live-action Cinderella-esque musical for Disney in the late '90s.

Menken is working on a "Wonderful World of Disney" TV movie in the style of the classic Rodgers and Hammerstein TV "Cinderella" (recently remade by Disney). The unnamed "classic fairy-tale" is set in Italy.

Source: https://playbill.com/article/hes-a-gues ... -com-79059

• As you all already know, Cinderella was one of the main inspirations for Giselle in Enchanted.

Giselle is very much a Walt-era Disney heroine, more of a Cinderella than a Belle.

Source: https://ew.com/article/2015/01/22/alan- ... ney-songs/

I knew that we wanted to have Andalasia to be that animated kingdom and for a long time, they were talking about it being actually a parody of what Howard Ashman and I did. And I thought: “You know, I’m not really comfortable and happy doing that. I’d rather go further back to the world of Snow White and Cinderella.”

Source: https://animatedviews.com/2008/enchante ... nny-troob/

[Disney's Divinity]

Too bad that '90s musical version didn't pan out. You know, it's still mysterious to me what happened with Menken at Disney. I always attributed Lasseter as being at fault for it, but Lasseter's no longer there and very little change. I suppose because Lasseter was friends with people at the top like Iger and he turned a lot of those people against Menken as well.

It's more funny with PIXAR and WDAS spinning their wheels trying to get out of a dark place. Not sure how to "fix" PIXAR, since this is the first time they've been there, but WDAS has had several down moments in its history and it always repaired itself the same way. They would take a well-known fairy tale--or, rather, several well-known classic fairy tales and/or literary titles--and create a great musical out of it. Cinderella, Alice, Peter Pan, Sleeping Beauty. Then The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin. Then The Frog Prince, Rapunzel, and The Snow Queen. It was the same way every time...and they had to commit to the strategy long enough for the comeback to build. They didn't just have a one-off fairy tale that brought them all the way back, they had a string that grew one from another (this last time it happened practically by accident because Rapunzel and The Snow Queen were too far along to cancel). Then after that they could experiment with things like The Lion King, Pocahontas and Hunchback or Zootopia, BH6, etc. Wish was a vague attempt at it, but the problem is it wasn't based off anything well-known, the music wasn't strong enough, and there aren't any follow-ups in the same vein to build with. It's just a shame because they have strong enough composers to pull off a new musical with (Menken, the Lopezes, even P&P or Miranda would have been alright), so why waste time with someone like Julia Michaels???

Of course, there aren't as many well-known stories they can plumb as there were back in the '50s, but there are some. Hans & Gretel, Little Red Riding Hood, and Jack and the Beanstalk feel a little too inconsequential for full features, but I would've thought the same for Pinnochio and it's one of the greatest Disney films. Then there's things like Swan Lake, The Princess and the Pea, Thumbelina (which they wouldn't touch that one because of the Bluth film, but they could make their own version), maybe a full-fledged Prince and the Pauper, Charlotte's Web, Tom Thumb, The Nutcracker, Baba Yaga, Bluebeard, Rumpelsiltskin, etc. Or a more straight take of King Arthur or Treasure Island, something like A Wrinkle in Time, one of the Arabian Tales, Sinbad, Ali Baba, whatever. Some things have other versions out there, but the Disney version--particularly when the film is good--often becomes the definitive version most people think of as an image for a story as time goes by. Stories with swans or nightingales feel like something that would be rife for an animated musical (HCA's The Nightingale being one of those), and there are so many stories to tap with those. And stories with transformations are always interesting, was just looking at two stories with those (The Swan Queen, The White Wolf), where you have a character in love with a person who has another form. Reminds me a bit of The Little Mermaid and Song of the Sea. Skimming through stories, there was one called "Starlight" that I could also imagine as a film.

Anyway, end tangent. I guess I was thinking about it in relation to other topics I was posting in before this one.

[Disney Duster]

Yes, that is right, Vlad. It's interesting every animated Disney heroine has had more personality than her remake counterpart.

Brelly, Sotiris is usually right about these things, so do you suppose Menken was never attached to the film but he commented saying he thought it would have been better as a musical?

PatchofBlue, true, but Ella says, "I'm a girl, not a princess" and there is the sin of ommission like you said, but I'll buy it, she's pure good enough for your theory to work.

Sotiris, wow, I don't know how you find out and remember all these things!

Divinity, I am glad we both would love a Menken Cinderella. But I would like him to do all the songs and not include the originals.

[UmbrellaFish]

Yes, just to be clear— I never said that Menken was attached to write music for the 2015 Cinderella. I think you have maybe misunderstood my posts.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, whoops, I did misunderstand, Brelly! Sorry.

[UmbrellaFish]

No worries, bud.

[Farerb]

Glinda's dress in the new Wicked poster is similar to Cinderella's dress:

[Disney Duster]

I don't think it was intentional. This is Glinda's "Thank Goodness" dress where she sings about being good and blue has always been a representation of good, even used in the original Wicked stage show. On the other hand, I see the different hues of purplish and other blues which is similar to Cinderella's costumer's blue ballgown idea, so who knows if Wicked's costumer intentionally borrowed that idea. The idea was virtually destroyed by being changed to almost all one shade of bright blue in post in Cinderella's finished film so it's not like it got to show up in that film anyway.

[Thumper_93]

She has the colors of the sky and she goes flying on a bubble so I think that the idea was to create something that represented the sky to show us that Glinda is the one who is over Elphaba. In the broadway show it was like that, Elphi wears clothes with colors that make you remind about the earth and Glinda wears blue because of the sky.
In the trailer Glinda wears this new gown when she says a phrase that she says before they sing for good in the broadway show. I've always thought that she would wear the pink one during this song just like in the musical so it seems that this gown is going to have more protagonism.

[Disney Duster]

I did know about the colors of the Earth for Elphaba and the colors of the sky for Glinda in the musical. Maybe you are right and they are doing the same here, even though they wanted pink for Glinda sometimes from The Wizard of Oz film and Wicked book.

I hope they remember to keep Glinda in pink for the Dorothy scenes to keep with The Wizard of Oz film and Wicked book as well.

[Thumper_93]

I did know about the colors of the Earth for Elphaba and the colors of the sky for Glinda in the musical. Maybe you are right and they are doing the same here, even though they wanted pink for Glinda sometimes from The Wizard of Oz film and Wicked book.

I hope they remember to keep Glinda in pink for the Dorothy scenes to keep with The Wizard of Oz film and Wicked book as well.

I'm sure that she will has the pink gown for these scenes. They made it pink to make it mor marketable and to make a reference to the original Wizard of Oz. However I prefer the blue one for Glinda because I love that they choosed this color for the broadway show.

[PatchofBlue]

I really think there's a lot to unpack with comparing the "Wicked" movies to the Disney remakes because in a way they sort of paved the way for these movies. Like, whether or not they actually succeeded at any of their stated objectives, the remakes did sort of whet the public's appetite for ... not just "musicals" in general, but specifically the big-budget live-action fantasy epic-musical that "Wicked" needs to be. It'll be interesting to see whether or not this trend continues and mutates as Disney runs out of space for more of these.

I hadn't made the "Cinderella" connection with Glinda's dress, but I see it now that it's been pointed out.

On a related note, I saw someone compare the scene in the new trailer where Glinda and Elphaba are floating through the glowing pink lights to "A Whole New World."

[Disney Duster]

Oh, Thumper, the blue is great for Glinda, but I will always choose pink for Glinda. In the Wizard of Oz book she wears a white gown but has red hair and rubies in her palace so I like the combo of white and red which would be pink. And I just really love that MGM pink gown.

PatchofBlue, maybe your theory on how Disney remakes paved the way for Wicked is true! I think it is a big possibility.

[Thumper_93]

Oh, Thumper, the blue is great for Glinda, but I will always choose pink for Glinda. In the Wizard of Oz book she wears a white gown but has red hair and rubies in her palace so I like the combo of white and red which would be pink. And I just really love that MGM pink gown.

PatchofBlue, maybe your theory on how Disney remakes paved the way for Wicked is true! I think it is a big possibility.

Yes! She wears white in the books. Disney did a great job with that in Oz the great and powerful. My favorite Glinda's gown in this movie is the final one. It's white but it has pink in the inside of the skirt and I think that it's a good way to make a reference to the 1937 Glinda.

[Disney Duster]

You mean the gown she wears at the end of Oz the Great and Powerful where she kisses the Wizard?

[Thumper_93]

You mean the gown she wears at the end of Oz the Great and Powerful where she kisses the Wizard?

I think so, this one