Fantasia/Fantasia 2000 Discussion

[singerguy04]

I managed to watch an uncensored version of Fantasia and it might be an unpopular opinion and even heresy, but I think I prefer the censored version. I found Sunflower and the other one to be jarring, off putting and out of place in an otherwise beautiful sequence.

I was able to find a new, sealed copy of Fantasia 2000 on Blu-ray, so I bought and gave it a watch tonight for the first time ever. It amazed me, everything about it is so beautiful. The animation, especially is absolutely mind-blowing. I still think the original Fantasia is better, but this one was an incredible follow-up.

I like Fantasia 2000 and I think it's a fitting conclusion for 20th Century Disney. I think a third Fantasia would have been a more appropriate film for the 100th anniversary of the studio, but Disney nowadays is only about Princesses and inferior "Pixar" films.

I agree with you. Sunflower has always felt a bit weird to me, outside of obvious reasons, because even as "comic relief" she doesn't seem to fit in that world. It's like watching Sleeping Beauty and then a Simpsons character appears. I prefer to edit her out, and I'm pretty sure (I haven't read the whole thread to check) some the original creators were involved with the edit. I think it becomes harder for audiences to understand when companies edit things when the creators are not involved.

As for Fantasia overall, they basically are passion/vanity projects. Granted, I love them, but they aren't really profitable and are a guaranteed gamble for the company. I don't think we'll see future ones because 2000 performed particularly bad and unlike the original, they haven't really been able to turn a perceived profit on it.

[Vlad]

A third Fantasia movie for the 100th anniversary would have been something truly special. But would it have been as epic and beautiful as the first 2? Who knows, maybe...

[UmbrellaFish]

Wowzers! Storyboards from the deleted “Pomp and Circumstance” scene from Fantasia 2000, with the Disney Princesses and their babies, has been posted online: https://youtu.be/seXzVNRHWTk?si=DHM7gCoGnqV0nD-r

I have to say— I’m so glad it didn’t make the cut!

The channel has another cut scene from Fantasia 2000: “Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini” https://youtu.be/-14aqZvkjwM?si=B19xDSBHzMu7kCY_

[Thumper_93]

Oh it looks amazing! I don't know why they deceided to remove the scene from the movie. It's even a great idea to celebrate the 100 anniversary. Much better than Once upon a studio.

[UmbrellaFish]

I think making all the princesses and princes parents was a step too far.

I would have liked it better if it had been, perhaps, a coronation for all the princesses. I love the old Cinderellabration castle stage show, though, which is exactly that concept.

[Farerb]

Oh it looks amazing! I don't know why they deceided to remove the scene from the movie. It's even a great idea to celebrate the 100 anniversary. Much better than Once upon a studio.

I think I read somewhere that Roy Disney (or some other guy) disliked this idea because it implied that the princesses had sex, though I'm not sure why it was okay for Little Mermaid 2 (perhaps they didn't know). TLM 2 was released 9 months after Fantasia 2000.

[UmbrellaFish]

Oh it looks amazing! I don't know why they deceided to remove the scene from the movie. It's even a great idea to celebrate the 100 anniversary. Much better than Once upon a studio.

I think I read somewhere that Roy Disney (or some other guy) disliked this idea because it implied that the princesses had sex, though I'm not sure why it was okay for Little Mermaid 2 (perhaps they didn't know). TLM 2 was released 9 months after Fantasia 2000.

I saw something similar the YouTube comments, so I looked it up. Jim Hill says the Disney Studios screened that story reel for the surviving 9 Old Men (because they wanted them to animate parts of Fantasia 2000), and after it was over, Ward Kimball called it “the stupidest f*cking idea I’ve ever heard.”

https://jimhillmedia.com/why-for-the-di ... see/?amp=1

[Farerb]

I saw something similar the YouTube comments, so I looked it up. Jim Hill says the Disney Studios screened that story reel for the surviving 9 Old Men (because they wanted them to animate parts of Fantasia 2000), and after it was over, Ward Kimball called it “the stupidest f*cking idea I’ve ever heard.”

https://jimhillmedia.com/why-for-the-di ... see/?amp=1

I also don't like this idea. Feels a little too fanfiction to me.

I searched the forums and here's a discussion about this, not sure if it's true though:
viewtopic.php?p=562244&hilit=Fantasia+sex#p562244

[Disney's Divinity]

The only part I didn't like was the start where the princesses are dancing together like ballerinas and randomly bowing to the other royals (Jasmine bowing to the Sultan, Aurora to Stefan, etc. makes it sort of dumb), but I liked the rest of it, really wish it had happened. I always thought it would be a case of them introducing their children, and they'd be around the 10-ish age range with their own designs, not that they'd get babies by stork. And I always thought there was supposed to be one moment that would show the villains.

[Wonderlicious]

I saw that this morning when I opened YouTube, and have watched it twice. It's interesting, and there are definitely some funny bits (Alice acting as a sort of daydreamy majorette, some of the business with the playing cards, the scenes with the pumpkin coach and crocodile), but the whole premise and the setting of the castle in the clouds are generally sickly sweet and pompous. The bit of them dancing ballet at the beginning, and the idea of them having their super-cute babies delivered by storks in particular seemed really twee; and before anyone asks, I know they had the storks deliver babies in Dumbo, but they were baby animals so it didn't seem jarring. Also, the use of "Pomp and Circumstance" also seems jarring for me as a British guy, as it's usually set to lyrics here as "Land of Hope and Glory", a gung-ho, patriotic, Rule Britannia-like song. Seeing a ton of classic Disney characters together on screen all at once is always fun, but this probably wasn't the best vehicle for it. Let's just say that Once Upon a Studio definitely did it better.

And I always thought there was supposed to be one moment that would show the villains.

I also remember reading that. A YouTube comment suggested that this could have been just one variant, and a later work print may have had the villains in it.

[Thumper_93]

I don't think that Once upon a studio did it better. The plot of this short was to take a groupal picture, that's all. At least here they created a story and it was interesiting the facts of the babies. It was like the first step to a next generation.
I understand that it can be weird to see the princesses as mothers but we saw Ariel and nobody was scandalized by that. What I saw in the video is really cute and nothing sexual.

[carolinakid]

I actually didn’t dislike it. As a MAJOR princess fan I would love to see something done with them all together with their being animated beautifully on model with their princes.
I’m sure the Song of the South characters would never be included today...I spotted Brer Rabbit and Brer Bear.

[Sotiris]

Storyboards from the deleted “Pomp and Circumstance” scene from Fantasia 2000, with the Disney Princesses and their babies, has been posted online: https://youtu.be/seXzVNRHWTk?si=DHM7gCoGnqV0nD-r

Thanks for sharing! This video was taken from a 1992 workprint. There was a later story reel from 1994 where a lot of things were added and changed, most notably the inclusion of Disney villains and the tweaked ending. I wish that one would leak too!

It's even a great idea to celebrate the 100 anniversary. Much better than Once upon a studio.

Well, it would obviously be better than Once Upon a Studio. Nothing from the current era can compare to the output from the '90s. The level of artistry and storytelling during that time is unparalleled.

I think making all the princesses and princes parents was a step too far. I would have liked it better if it had been, perhaps, a coronation for all the princesses.

A coronation for the princesses would be appropriate for a campaign by Disney Consumer Products, not for a segment in a Disney classic. It wouldn't have enough substance or be able to tug at the heartstrings to justify its inclusion. I'm not saying it was a good idea to make them parents, but at least that idea had some emotional heft to it.

I think I read somewhere that Roy Disney (or some other guy) disliked this idea because it implied that the princesses had sex, though I'm not sure why it was okay for Little Mermaid 2 (perhaps they didn't know).

They had storks bring the babies so the implication of sex couldn't have been the issue. If Roy objected to it, it would have been for the same reason he objected to the Disney Princess franchise; the characters are from different eras and settings and bringing them together wouldn't make sense.

[UmbrellaFish]

Giving these characters children, in a DAC, is also a significant addition to the canon of their stories.

For me, I’m glad this was cut. I liked the “Princess Academy” concept better— I know that was a fan concept, but that kind of setting and opportunity to see the Princesses interact is more in line with something I’d want to see.

[PatchofBlue]

I don't think that a Princess segment in a Fantasia film would have been any more "nakedly commercial" than having a solo piece for Mickey Mouse in Sorcerer's Apprentice. And I certainly don't think blending the Princesses together is more blasphemous than putting one of the Fab 5 in a literal Biblical story.

Once Upon a Studio ranks a bit higher for me in that it that the screentime was more evenly divided between fairy-tale and non-fairy-tale properties, and so you had a wider representation of the Disney canon, and also for having dialogue from the voice actors. But this was still a sweet idea, certainly more than the Ralph Breaks the Internet nonsense.

[Vlad]

What an interesting idea. I would have loved to see it come to life. It would've been so awesome if they fully animated it for the 100th anniversary.

[Disney Duster]

I absolutely loved this Prince and Princesses as parents segment! I thought it was just gonna be the princesses presenting their children, which did sound dumb to me, but seeing them getting their children by storks actually worked for me! And they used Cinderella's majestic castle! And all the castle and cloud imagery made it look like Heaven! It was like it was holy! I wish we got this instead of the Noah's Arc segment! Only thing missing I would also like to have seen was villains part.

[Thumper_93]

The one thing that I didn't like was that Adam's shadows has the shape of the Beast. Poor man, let him forget his past

[Disney Duster]

Oh, but I loved those mermaid and Beast shadows! Hey, does anyone know why they kept getting mad at Donald Duck? Was it because it wasn't time for the crowns yet?

[robster16]

Interesting to see scrapped concepts but... Eeew, way too on the nose and over the top fan service. I'm personally glad this was scrapped. These characters work best in their own separate universes and I have little to no desire to see them pair up as a group other than perhaps a "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" type setting (where you know we are all in on the joke).