Snow White (Live-Action)

[PatchofBlue]

I ask for sources because we have heard like twelve different contradictory accounts about what's REALLY going on behind the scenes with this movie, and so I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask how we know a certain report has more authority than the others.

I'd reiterate my own position that I don't really care about a Latina Snow White. (I'll admit that of all the princesses to racebend, the one whose name means "Pale Skin" is kind of a weird choice, but whatever, it aint a dealbreaker, and I get why they're doing it.) That said, even while the pushback against Zegler reached titanic proportions (which I have also spoken out against here), I do think there are valid reasons for people to be upset with the things Zegler was saying and to extrapolate from her comments that the movie will be disastrous. And it's not really as straightforward as "they're changing things, and change is bad."

I think shaking things up is a necessary part of letting these remakes stand on their own. One of my main critiques of "Little Mermaid," one of the rare remakes I actually liked, was that the film borrowed a little too generously from the animated film's script, which to me betrayed a lack of confidence and kept large stretches of the film on autopilot. When I'm acquiring a ticket to see "The Little Mermaid," "Peter Pan," "Mulan," etc, I'm obviously expecting certain things based on the source material of the movie I'm watching, but I'm also expecting to find things that I can't just find watching the source material.

To me, the Aladdin remake has done the best job at finding this happy medium. The characters are all recognizable, the enchanting musical numbers (for the most part) are all still here, the themes and messages are the same. But they shake up the order of operations, they build unique character histories, they add some new scenes, you get some slightly different pay-offs. Parts of this, I acknowledge, were done in response to certain criticisms of the 1992 film (some valid, some less-valid), but even as I was annoyed by Dan Lin's horrible takes on the Jasmine character, in execution I actually really liked how they ended up elevating her character. By the end I feel like I have seen this filmmaking team actually engage in a creative process worthy of the animated film they are emulating.

But based on what we've heard from multiple official sources on the Snow White project--things that Zegler and others have publicly said, not just here-say--they aren't just making ANY changes. When Zegler talks about how the original Snow White was stalked by her prince and we don't need to worry about that here, she is specifically stoking talking points and validating mindsets (which are almost uniformly based on distortions of the animated films and don't truly reflect on their actual behavior, beside the point) that have been weaponized against Disney fandom for a while. These remakes ought to be occasions for lovers of the source material to come out of the shadows to celebrate their favorite Disney pic, but that's something you just can't do when this whole project is based on how we have finally "fixed" such a "PrObLEmATic" movie. There is a WIDE chasm between carbon copying and active rebuttal, and it doesn't even look like the filmmaking team even tried to land somewhere in the middle.

I've actually done a really solid job at limiting my financial support of the remakes to the ones that I think I will actually enjoy based on the movie they are marketing. I saw Cinderella, Little Mermaid, and Aladdin, and Cruella a few times in theaters while I deliberately opted out of Maleficent, Beauty and the Beast, and The Lion King because I could just tell that I wasn't buying what they were selling. (The only ones I actually in hindsight regretted seeing were Jungle Book, which I didn't necessarily realize I actually disliked until a few viewings in, and Dumbo, which ended up flopping beside the point.) I'm pretty secure in my projection that I won't be supporting this film when its time comes. Even if these hypothetical reshoots do end up cleaning this film up, I'll know that it wasn't because it's reflecting the movie the filmmakers wanted to make and that it's done to try placating wounds that never should have been afflicted in the first place.

[UmbrellaFish]

But based on what we've heard from multiple official sources on the Snow White project--things that Zegler and others have publicly said, not just here-say--they aren't just making ANY changes. When Zegler talks about how the original Snow White was stalked by her prince and we don't need to worry about that here, she is specifically stoking talking points and validating mindsets (which are almost uniformly based on distortions of the animated films and don't truly reflect on their actual behavior, beside the point) that have been weaponized against Disney fandom for a while. These remakes ought to be occasions for lovers of the source material to come out of the shadows to celebrate their favorite Disney pic, but that's something you just can't do when this whole project is based on how we have finally "fixed" such a "PrObLEmATic" movie. There is a WIDE chasm between carbon copying and active rebuttal, and it doesn't even look like the filmmaking team even tried to land somewhere in the middle.

PatchofBlue, I get where you’re coming from, those comments from Zegler made me cringe, too. But while Zegler’s enthusiasm for the PR line might be unusual, the PR line itself isn’t new. You say “talking points and validating mindsets that have been weaponized against the Disney fandom,” and I agree with you but it’s Disney’s line. It’s how they sell these remakes. And that’s all it is— a selling point. Countless actors and directors before Zegler have spouted lines about how their remake Princess is better than her original animated counterpart because “x, y, and z.” I just don’t see how this time is any different. I think Zegler’s taking a beating in the court of Disney fandom opinion because she has so much theatre kid energy and so genuinely believes in what she’s a part of and is so enthusiastically selling it (and also, we can’t disregard she is facing some fierce racist backlash and it’s a very normal reaction to want to defend her film and her own casting). But to me, it’s all cut from the same cloth and the reported adaptations being made do not seem especially egregious. Snow White is probably the finale for these big budget remakes, so maybe it’s paying for all the sins of its forebears (I felt in some ways, TLM did, too. If only BATB and TLM could have swapped release dates!).

PatchofBlue, I also want to say that I really enjoy your posts here and think you are very level headed, thoughtful, and intelligent. I apologize if any of my earlier posts felt like an attack on you, it truly wasn’t intended. I have generally agreed with most of your takes in this thread and others.

[PatchofBlue]

PatchofBlue, I get where you’re coming from, those comments from Zegler made me cringe, too. But while Zegler’s enthusiasm for the PR line might be unusual, the PR line itself isn’t new. You say “talking points and validating mindsets that have been weaponized against the Disney fandom,” and I agree with you but it’s Disney’s line. It’s how they sell these remakes. And that’s all it is— a selling point. Countless actors and directors before Zegler have spouted lines about how their remake Princess is better than her original animated counterpart because “x, y, and z.” I just don’t see how this time is any different. I think Zegler’s taking a beating in the court of Disney fandom opinion because she has so much theatre kid energy and so genuinely believes in what she’s a part of and is so enthusiastically selling it (and also, we can’t disregard she is facing some fierce racist backlash and it’s a very normal reaction to want to defend her film and her own casting). But to me, it’s all cut from the same cloth and the reported adaptations being made do not seem especially egregious. Snow White is probably the finale for these big budget remakes, so maybe it’s paying for all the sins of its forebears (I felt in some ways, TLM did, too. If only BATB and TLM could have swapped release dates!).

PatchofBlue, I also want to say that I really enjoy your posts here and think you are very level headed, thoughtful, and intelligent. I apologize if any of my earlier posts felt like an attack on you, it truly wasn’t intended. I have generally agreed with most of your takes in this thread and others.

Oh, I wasn't bothered by anything you or anyone else said here, and I've appreciated interacting with you also. This has all just been healthy, appropriate debate for me.

I'd agree this PR line has just been more of the same--another reason why it bothers me that people are all the sudden so aggressive toward Zegler when she's just playing the same game Watson so many years ago, but as you said, people just tend to feel more comfortable pushing back against a POC actress when she's occupying a traditionally white space than they do a white actress--but in seeing how this line has continued to be Disney's default, I have also seen how this trend has affected how the public views the larger Disney mythology. I don't think Watson's comments about traditional fairy-tales all centering around girls changing themselves to please their men just disappear into the void after the marketing tour is done. That actively shapes how the larger public continues to discuss things like the Disney fairy-tale.

Disclosing something like "The Little Mermaid is one of my favorite movies" automatically puts you on the defense. People who have not themselves watched The Little Mermaid since they were six feel very assured of their argument that Ariel "was just a product of her time, and heaven help the poor little Disney adults who can't see otherwise." That is something I have experienced firsthand across multiple interactions, online and in-person, among casual filmgoers and within academic spaces. While these talking points have been around for a while, the situation has not been helped by Disney being frankly kind of spineless when discussing its own legacy. To quote one of the rare remakes that actually added something to the discussion,



I also feel like the speculated changes actually transcend anything else we have seen from the past Disney remakes, even something like Maleficent which was actually branded as a twist on the original story. Again, changes are fine, but if Halle Bailey had come out saying, "What I really think people will like about this version of the story is that it's NOT so much about 'Part of Your World' and I just think it's so brave of Disney to finally give us a princess who isn't a helpless china doll," that on its own probably would have turned me off from wanting to see that film ever.

[Thumper_93]

Do you think that Disney is waiting to see the box office of this movie for give a green light to the next live actions?
This movies were a great What to bring back the platinum / Diamond edition effect. It was a way to bring back old classics to sell more merchandise and make them more popular. Without this I don’t know how they can bring back old classics. Maybe with re releases on theaters?

[UmbrellaFish]

but in seeing how this line has continued to be Disney's default, I have also seen how this trend has affected how the public views the larger Disney mythology. I don't think Watson's comments about traditional fairy-tales all centering around girls changing themselves to please their men just disappear into the void after the marketing tour is done. That actively shapes how the larger public continues to discuss things like the Disney fairy-tale.

Disclosing something like "The Little Mermaid is one of my favorite movies" automatically puts you on the defense. People who have not themselves watched The Little Mermaid since they were six feel very assured of their argument that Ariel "was just a product of her time, and heaven help the poor little Disney adults who can't see otherwise." That is something I have experienced firsthand across multiple interactions, online and in-person, among casual filmgoers and within academic spaces. While these talking points have been around for a while, the situation has not been helped by Disney being frankly kind of spineless when discussing its own legacy.

But as you mention, criticism of the Disney Princesses isn’t a new phenomenon. If the remakes had never existed, adult Disney fans would still get pushback about their favorite films because those criticisms have always existed. I guess with the marketing of the remakes, Disney took a gamble that they could profit from these criticisms of their own films. But in doing so, they legitimized those criticisms (and tbh, some of those criticisms were well founded, I’m glad Ariel’s critics helped shape Belle). And so far that strategy’s worked pretty well at the box office, but what are the long term ramifications?

I don’t know. I think the princesses will always have an image problem. But they are also hugely profitable for the company, so they’ll always be around. Maybe someday we will get the Disney Princess version of the Barbie movie, complete with a Disney version of America Ferrera’s monologue.

Oh my god, Disney’s Barbie was Enchanted, wasn’t it??

I also feel like the speculated changes actually transcend anything else we have seen from the past Disney remakes, even something like Maleficent which was actually branded as a twist on the original story. Again, changes are fine, but if Halle Bailey had come out saying, "What I really think people will like about this version of the story is that it's NOT so much about 'Part of Your World' and I just think it's so brave of Disney to finally give us a princess who isn't a helpless china doll," that on its own probably would have turned me off from wanting to see that film ever.

I think that’s fair, but I also think that goes back to Mooky’s point of… why did Disney greenlight a remake of Snow White in the first place? As far as I’m concerned, you can’t retell Disney’s Snow White without “Someday My Prince Will Come,” but how do you include that song in 2024 without it feeling like a regression? Every lead Disney heroine since Snow White has been in some ways, a response to that character and its criticisms. I hope the film has the courage to still include it, and not just over the end credits.

Do you think that Disney is waiting to see the box office of this movie for give a green light to the next live actions?
This movies were a great What to bring back the platinum / Diamond edition effect. It was a way to bring back old classics to sell more merchandise and make them more popular. Without this I don’t know how they can bring back old classics. Maybe with re releases on theaters?

I was going to say yes, but then I remembered D23 is next month and who knows what Bob’ll announce. But honestly, what material is left? The only big heavy hitters left are all from the Revival era. I know they’re already doing Moana, but that only makes sense for me as an opportunity for the Rock to reprise his voice role. Are they really so craven as to remake, TPATF, Tangled, Frozen, etc? Okay, yes, they are.

Steaming really changes the ballgame in terms of bringing back the classics for splashy celebrations and new merch collections. I don’t know if theatrical re-releases are the answer, but I’d be happy if they were.

[Disney Duster]

Yes, it is true empowering the female characters is a staple of Disney live-action remakes...but not stuff like changing the story so much Snow White hangs with a Robin Hood clone and his 7 bandits instead of a prince and doesn't get awakened by true love's kiss!

[Farerb]

Oh my god, Disney’s Barbie was Enchanted, wasn’t it??

Yes.

I think that’s fair, but I also think that goes back to Mooky’s point of… why did Disney greenlight a remake of Snow White in the first place? As far as I’m concerned, you can’t retell Disney’s Snow White without “Someday My Prince Will Come,” but how do you include that song in 2024 without it feeling like a regression? Every lead Disney heroine since Snow White has been in some ways, a response to that character and its criticisms. I hope the film has the courage to still include it, and not just over the end credits.

Well, they did remake Cinderella without the music and they "Wickedify" Sleeping Beauty, why couldn't they have made Snow White like Cinderella? Most people didn't have an issue with that one not having any music.
I personally feel that this story is just overdone in terms of adaptations, this movie is completely unnecessary in my opinion.

I was going to say yes, but then I remembered D23 is next month and who knows what Bob’ll announce. But honestly, what material is left? The only big heavy hitters left are all from the Revival era. I know they’re already doing Moana, but that only makes sense for me as an opportunity for the Rock to reprise his voice role. Are they really so craven as to remake, TPATF, Tangled, Frozen, etc? Okay, yes, they are.

I honestly don't know what else they can do as well. Their Animal movies are just not good in "live action", they don't care for Pocahontas and Hunchback because they don't align with their branding anymore. After Snow White the only ones that might interest me are Hercules and Moana. Maybe if they get to Tangled and Frozen as well (I'm pretty sure we will get them by the end of the decade).

[UmbrellaFish]

I think that’s fair, but I also think that goes back to Mooky’s point of… why did Disney greenlight a remake of Snow White in the first place? As far as I’m concerned, you can’t retell Disney’s Snow White without “Someday My Prince Will Come,” but how do you include that song in 2024 without it feeling like a regression? Every lead Disney heroine since Snow White has been in some ways, a response to that character and its criticisms. I hope the film has the courage to still include it, and not just over the end credits.

Well, they did remake Cinderella without the music and they "Wickedify" Sleeping Beauty, why couldn't they have made Snow White like Cinderella? Most people didn't have an issue with that one not having any music.

I mean they could have, but I’m glad Snow White is still going to be a musical. That is probably my only major disappointment with Cinderella— I wish they had done what I think they’re doing with Snow White here, I wish they had hired a new songwriting team to write new songs and also kept the original film’s most iconic songs. Like, I’m worried about what they’re going to do with “Someday My Prince Will Come” but I’m pretty sure “Heigh Ho” will still be there.

[Thumper_93]

I liked Cinderella even without musical numbers. I think that they made a great job, they respect the story adding things to make it more interesiting and after all they respected the character. They made a classic princess with some minor changes to make her stronger and: surprise! Most people loved her. They made the movie with love using great sets and with a wonderful costume design and it doesn't look weird if you watch it today.
After Cinderella all the live actions started to use bad CGI and transforming lots of characters trying to find what people wanted. In my opinion the only one who was great was Jasmine althgough that I don't like the actress and the costume design (those parts of fabric with weird colors to avoid showing Naomi's belly are ridiculous).
Honestly I would want this movie to be made after Cinderella. I think that it would have been better and with the same spirit of a classi fairy tale.
However the movie is not out yet. Let's wait to see what they are going to offer us but honestly I'm still thinking that is going to be a movie to watch once and that we are going to forget after 2 weeks.

[PatchofBlue]

And see, I don't think it would have been a remarkably difficult feat for them to include a traditional Snow White who still complied with the modern talking points of feminism. We seem to be in agreement that there will always be criticism of the Disney brand and of Disney Princesses specifically, and I personally don't imagine Disney is ever really going to win them over (did LA Beauty and the Beast really earn them points with the anti-Disney crowd? maybe for a moment, but it was all too easy for them to slide back into old routines) and so Disney would do better to just know where their fans are.

One thing that I think is lost in larger discussion about Snow White's "Someday My Prince Will Come"-ness is that even if we decide her ultimate goal is just to get married, she still spends the larger majority of the film without her Prince anywhere in sight. Much of her character action sees her interacting with the dwarfs or the animals, and so we see firsthand that she has a stable sense of identity separate from her love interest. That is all on display in the movie--there is PLENTY for Disney to build off of. I think any adjustments they would have needed to make it work would have more in common with general character depth-ening than the full-on revisionism that was advertised.

Off the top of my head ...

*Give Snow and Princey a montage that communicates that they have an extended courtship (even let them carry it in secret under the nose of the Queen to give that Romeo & Juliet charge) before she flees into the woods.

*Let us see The Prince searching for Snow White while she's with the dwarfs so he still feels like an active part of the narrative and we feel more anticipation for their reunion. "Someday My Prince Will Come" can feature more or less in the same spot it does in the animated film.

*Maybe the largest change I'd prescribe ... take a leaf from the Kristen Stewart Snow White (is not a sentence I thought I would ever say) and recast True Love's Kiss from the finale to the transition from Act II to Act III, and craft a new climax that lets Snow White be the one to defeat the Queen before Happily Ever After.

I don't think it would have been unthinkable for the writers to come up with a treatment similar to that, but when you've already made up your mind to start from a place of "the YouTube comments say this movie is problematic" ... I can only attribute it all to a lack of imagination.

[Vlad]

I actually never cared if a Latina actress plays Snow White. For me, the most important aspect was that she had a pretty voice, which Rachel does have. However, I do understand people who are unsatisfied with race-swapping an iconic character, and it's not racist to notice and to complain about that.

I also thought her comments on the original were super cringe. I know that previous actresses said that their remake would fix problems with x,y,z, but never like her. She was kinda aggressive with her thoughts and opinions, and that is why people were super upset with her.

After the SAG strike, there was the interview with her and Halle Bailey, which was even more cringe, but I did like her attitude, she was obviously coached on what to say and so on.

When Disney unveiled that first look picture of her and the seven CGI dwarfs, I kinda liked it, and gave me hope about the movie. Then, they said there would be reshoots, which was more great news. I will wait to see at least the teaser trailer before forming an opinion. I've read many articles online, most of which were fake and clickbait, and watched lots of YouTube videos talking about what a disaster this movie is behind the scenes, and how awful recent test screenings were and so on.

I'm not sure if I'd go see it in theaters or wait to see it on Disney+, but I guess I'll decide after I see a trailer.

[Thumper_93]

We forgot to talk about what thing...Why is Snow white less worthy because she wants to get married with her prince? Does it make her less valuable? Is she a worst woman because of that? We live in a word where if a woman is not a warrior with a sword it seems that she's not a good feminist woman.
One of the things that I loved about Emma Watson's role on Little Woman is the part when she talks with Jo and says that her dreams are not less valuable just becuse they are different from the ones that Jo has.
Snow white is a woman who wants love and it's all righ! We talk a lot about diversity but when someones has other dreams then we think that this person is wrong and that's a big mistake! Diversity doesn't only include skin color. It's a bout respect other's people mind as long as they are not harmful and to let everybody be happy the what that they are. Changing Snow White's personality to make her more correct is not a good choice. She's been beloved for more than 80 years the way she is and she teachs to kids to be patient, to have love for each others, to care for animals and lots of positivie stuff!

[Disney Duster]

Cinderella (2015) is my favorite live-action film ever. Yes, I have extreme bias because it is based on my favorite story, but I wouldn"t like it near as much if it wasn't faithful to my favorite story. I even prefer watching the entirety of that version over watching the entirety of the 1950 version because the 1950 one has so much cat and mice subplot and the 2015 replaces that with more of the human characters and it's all just so darn beautiful to look at. So Snow White could be faithful and be a great film like Cinderella instead of a film so.changed I don't think anyone really likes it like the Mulan remake.

[Vlad]

[carolinakid]

So true, Vlad!
Thanks for that!

[UmbrellaFish]

And see, I don't think it would have been a remarkably difficult feat for them to include a traditional Snow White who still complied with the modern talking points of feminism. We seem to be in agreement that there will always be criticism of the Disney brand and of Disney Princesses specifically, and I personally don't imagine Disney is ever really going to win them over (did LA Beauty and the Beast really earn them points with the anti-Disney crowd? maybe for a moment, but it was all too easy for them to slide back into old routines) and so Disney would do better to just know where their fans are.

One thing that I think is lost in larger discussion about Snow White's "Someday My Prince Will Come"-ness is that even if we decide her ultimate goal is just to get married, she still spends the larger majority of the film without her Prince anywhere in sight. Much of her character action sees her interacting with the dwarfs or the animals, and so we see firsthand that she has a stable sense of identity separate from her love interest. That is all on display in the movie--there is PLENTY for Disney to build off of. I think any adjustments they would have needed to make it work would have more in common with general character depth-ening than the full-on revisionism that was advertised.

Off the top of my head ...

*Give Snow and Princey a montage that communicates that they have an extended courtship (even let them carry it in secret under the nose of the Queen to give that Romeo & Juliet charge) before she flees into the woods.

*Let us see The Prince searching for Snow White while she's with the dwarfs so he still feels like an active part of the narrative and we feel more anticipation for their reunion. "Someday My Prince Will Come" can feature more or less in the same spot it does in the animated film.

*Maybe the largest change I'd prescribe ... take a leaf from the Kristen Stewart Snow White (is not a sentence I thought I would ever say) and recast True Love's Kiss from the finale to the transition from Act II to Act III, and craft a new climax that lets Snow White be the one to defeat the Queen before Happily Ever After.

I don't think it would have been unthinkable for the writers to come up with a treatment similar to that, but when you've already made up your mind to start from a place of "the YouTube comments say this movie is problematic" ... I can only attribute it all to a lack of imagination.

I think we’re ultimately pretty much in agreement about Disney remakes in general. To be honest, my POV with this film is just… wait and see because we don’t really know anything about it. I feel like I am in lalaloopsy land because when I look at what has been released officially from Disney, it looks, at least aesthetically, very faithful to the animated movie. Again, shockingly faithful to me. I think a lot of the reports we are hearing about what’s in the movie are coming from unsubstantiated sources (and some— many— very clearly on the hate train) and they’ve colored online discussion overmuch. Like the dwarfs… if they were originally shot and intended to be tall characters, and later changed to be dwarfs… well, everything would be wrong. The sets, the costumes, the composition of the shots, the actors’ sight lines. It would result in more than reshoots, they would have to entirely refilm the movie. It would cost so much money, I don’t think Disney would even bother “changing” it. I guess that’s where I’m coming from… I just think the online reaction so far is overblown and probably very misinformed.

[Sotiris]

*Give Snow and Princey a montage that communicates that they have an extended courtship (even let them carry it in secret under the nose of the Queen to give that Romeo & Juliet charge) before she flees into the woods.

*Let us see The Prince searching for Snow White while she's with the dwarfs so he still feels like an active part of the narrative and we feel more anticipation for their reunion. "Someday My Prince Will Come" can feature more or less in the same spot it does in the animated film.

*Maybe the largest change I'd prescribe ... take a leaf from the Kristen Stewart Snow White (is not a sentence I thought I would ever say) and recast True Love's Kiss from the finale to the transition from Act II to Act III, and craft a new climax that lets Snow White be the one to defeat the Queen before Happily Ever After.

These are all great ideas! Unfortunately, the people responsible for these films don't posses the creativity, talent and respect for the original to properly adapt the property.

[Vlad]

And see, I don't think it would have been a remarkably difficult feat for them to include a traditional Snow White who still complied with the modern talking points of feminism. We seem to be in agreement that there will always be criticism of the Disney brand and of Disney Princesses specifically, and I personally don't imagine Disney is ever really going to win them over (did LA Beauty and the Beast really earn them points with the anti-Disney crowd? maybe for a moment, but it was all too easy for them to slide back into old routines) and so Disney would do better to just know where their fans are.

One thing that I think is lost in larger discussion about Snow White's "Someday My Prince Will Come"-ness is that even if we decide her ultimate goal is just to get married, she still spends the larger majority of the film without her Prince anywhere in sight. Much of her character action sees her interacting with the dwarfs or the animals, and so we see firsthand that she has a stable sense of identity separate from her love interest. That is all on display in the movie--there is PLENTY for Disney to build off of. I think any adjustments they would have needed to make it work would have more in common with general character depth-ening than the full-on revisionism that was advertised.

Off the top of my head ...

*Give Snow and Princey a montage that communicates that they have an extended courtship (even let them carry it in secret under the nose of the Queen to give that Romeo & Juliet charge) before she flees into the woods.

*Let us see The Prince searching for Snow White while she's with the dwarfs so he still feels like an active part of the narrative and we feel more anticipation for their reunion. "Someday My Prince Will Come" can feature more or less in the same spot it does in the animated film.

*Maybe the largest change I'd prescribe ... take a leaf from the Kristen Stewart Snow White (is not a sentence I thought I would ever say) and recast True Love's Kiss from the finale to the transition from Act II to Act III, and craft a new climax that lets Snow White be the one to defeat the Queen before Happily Ever After.

I don't think it would have been unthinkable for the writers to come up with a treatment similar to that, but when you've already made up your mind to start from a place of "the YouTube comments say this movie is problematic" ... I can only attribute it all to a lack of imagination.

There was a comic that told the story from Snow White's perspective. And it showed her and the Prince speaking longer before she had to run in the forest. We saw she had a handmaid, like Jasmine in the Aladdin remake, we learned more about her mother. Snow White also spent more time with the dwarfs in the cottage, helping them with fixing various things in the house. I really thought the screenplay of the remake would be based on that comic.

[PatchofBlue]

I think we’re ultimately pretty much in agreement about Disney remakes in general. To be honest, my POV with this film is just… wait and see because we don’t really know anything about it. I feel like I am in lalaloopsy land because when I look at what has been released officially from Disney, it looks, at least aesthetically, very faithful to the animated movie. Again, shockingly faithful to me. I think a lot of the reports we are hearing about what’s in the movie are coming from unsubstantiated sources (and some— many— very clearly on the hate train) and they’ve colored online discussion overmuch. Like the dwarfs… if they were originally shot and intended to be tall characters, and later changed to be dwarfs… well, everything would be wrong. The sets, the costumes, the composition of the shots, the actors’ sight lines. It would result in more than reshoots, they would have to entirely refilm the movie. It would cost so much money, I don’t think Disney would even bother “changing” it. I guess that’s where I’m coming from… I just think the online reaction so far is overblown and probably very misinformed.

I definitely agree that there's likely been some distortion, and I'm doing my best to discern which sources feel legitimate and which feel like fearmongering. The dwarfs controversy in particular feels like it has been subject to some heavy-duty disfiguring based on multiple "inside sources" all saying contradictory things. Way back even before Zegler was cast, "Heigh-ho" was one of the songs Pasek & Paul had mentioned was going to be in the film, so it stands to reason that the dwarfs were intended to be a part of the film early on, though that also definitely could have changed along the way. The main reason I ask tsom for sources isn't because I'm like trying to throw their integrity into question or anything, it's just that if anyone has information, that is something I'd like to have also.

Even so, anytime you are discussing a piece of media that hasn't been released, you just kind of have to accept that you're walking blind and reconcile yourself to the possibility that you might be proven wrong later, but we're going to discuss it anyways. There are reasons why I'm not personally skeptical of these reports about the remake being both wildly divergent and a total trainwreck. It corroborates a lot of what we do know about the film, including the fact that this film has undergone reshoots.

Then, of course, there's the history of the remakes themselves. Like, if I'm being asked to believe that the remake machine would put out something so bad atrociously bad that Disney had to effectively reshoot the picture, it doesn't really feel like heresy or some unprecedented behavior from Disney. The Pinocchio remake was also visually identically in just about every regard to the 1940 film (except for Monstro the tentacle-y whale), but that one also made some hard left-turns to the story, including the ending.

Again, I could definitely find out I'm wrong down the road, and if someone's going to take a different stance, that's cool too, but I'm going to wait for Disney to prove that it's not just committing the same sin all over again before I start eating crow.

Thanks, Sotiris!

And interesting connection, Vlad. Just goes to show there really were a billion different "right ways" to adapt this story.

[Thumper_93]