Musker & Clements Left Disney

[The Disneynerd]

Dont have Facebook unfortunately, but from the Stills of the Short all around Google and more, the Animation style looks really unique and bold, reminds me a bit of Disneys rhapsody in blue sequence. Thats really cool. I really wanna see it, especially after reading the premise about the cat proclaiming his "hipness" lol that sounds unique, another obvious thing why im looking forward to this is his great envolvement in disney animation alongside Ron Clements (even if I have to go the evil path of streaming piracy arrrgh arrgh argh )

[MoonMarc21]

Something feels off about the animation, like its obviously well done, but it feels too...zippy? Like it doesn't really allow time to breath?

I’m guessing it’s because of how quick the main character moves but yeah, it does sometimes feel a bit choppy and stiff, regardless of how well done it is. I still want to watch it because I want to support his short; the backgrounds look really comic-booky/underground-esque, making it really feel like a Fantasia 2000 segment, just like what The Disneynerd said.

Regarding the duo’s DC animated film, I really hope it pushes through. I’m really interested in how they’ll do the Metal Men since it’s rare for people involved with Disney doing animated Superhero films. I know Big Hero 6 exists but more like in the vibe of Hercules which the tone is a bit inspired by Superman comics, which the duo made themselves. Plus, there’s already a label for movies that don’t fit in the main DC Cinematic Universe, “Elseworlds”, and most of their animated outputs are there so I don’t see that they’ll cancel it. They’re still making a black Superman film in tandem with the main Superman movie in the main universe if I can recall.

[Farerb]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1sQO00vLSi ... FlOHNtYTQ1

[PatrickvD]

Love this for John Musker! So nice that he’s free to create what he wants and is even receiving nominations for it. Much deserved!

[Farerb]

John Musker: Disney Animation Needs A ‘Course Correction’
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-comme ... 41223.html

[Sotiris]

Well said by John, but it will fall on deaf ears. The current creative leadership at the studio is just not talented enough to pull that off.

[PatchofBlue]

I don't know if I personally agree with his assessment that Disney's main problem is a "message over story" thing. The story in Wish was definitely neglected, but I don't think its message was any stronger for it. The whole takeaway of that film was some vague lesson about not giving up on your wish.

That resistance seems more like something I'd encounter from people who are just sensitive to any kind of political subtext--or more appropriately, people who don't realize that films have always had "messages" and think that's something that only new movies do.

[Jules]

Well said by John, but it will fall on deaf ears. The current creative leadership at the studio is just not talented enough to pull that off.

I do hope the studio leadership is renewed in the coming years, because I simply do not see Jennifer Lee reading this article and thinking, "Hmm ... Interesting observations John. I'll retire for two weeks to re-evaluate my work philosophies and emerge better for it."

Given her position in the studio, I suspect she will be too proud to admit her direction is fundamentally flawed, and will stick to it regardless.

For the record, I do not believe Jennifer Lee is not serious at her job or does not want the best for Disney Animation. However, I think her ideas of good Disney Animation are not endorsed by general audiences (or me.)

At the end of the day, while women are undoubtedly under-represented in the workplace, and historically females have suffered much at the hand of males, the filling in of the CCO position at WDAS following Lasseter's departure should have been based on merit, and not what reproductive organs one has between their legs.

[PatchofBlue]

I'm just saying ... no one called John Lasseter's leadership into question after his decade of mid-quality sequels or the belly-flop of The Good Dinosaur.

And yeah, of course no one up top would seeing how the sequels were much more financially successful, but for those of us who cared about quality or creativity, it's still revealing how much the internet is expecting Jennifer Lee to answer for messes that she is only partially responsible for in a way they never would for Lasseter, with or without the #MeToo context. That man has never had to answer for anything more than his Hawaiian shirts.

I do not think Wish or Strange World were any worse than any of the Pixar sequels post-TS3, and I mostly attribute their underperformance to external factors like the pandemic crippling the theater experience indefinitely and the mismanagement of Disney+. And it's weird also the way people are weighing Wish and Strange World as her sole contributions to Disney Animation when she also gave them things like Encanto.

[Farerb]

To be completely fair, people here have called out Lasseter ever since he took over and most people here aren't fans of the so called Revival era.

Personally, I think the issue is bigger than Jennifer Lee as we can see that each of Disney's studios (MCU, Lucasfilm, Pixar) suffer from low quality output.

[Sotiris]

I'm just saying ... no one called John Lasseter's leadership into question after his decade of mid-quality sequels or the belly-flop of The Good Dinosaur.

Plenty of people did, actually. More so in the fandom than the press, but even in the press there were reports of him being "spread too thin", neglecting Pixar, and micromanaging. He was also criticized for the whole Brave/Brenda Chapman debacle as well as the underperformance of The Good Dinosaur. Let's not forget that up to that point, Lasseter had proven himself as a studio head with a string of hits which afforded him more leeway to veer off track, something that doesn't apply to Lee. Not that I'm defending Lasseter in any way, back in the day I was one of his fiercest critics, but to say he never got any backlash prior to his sexual harassment scandal is simply not accurate. I would even go as far to argue that Lasseter was more openly and freely criticized as opposed to Lee. People are weary of criticizing Lee out of fear of getting accused of misogyny.

I do not think Wish or Strange World were any worse than any of the Pixar sequels post-TS3, and I mostly attribute their underperformance to external factors like the pandemic crippling the theater experience indefinitely and the mismanagement of Disney+.

I disagree on both accounts there. Raya, Strange World, and Wish are bigger blunders than Pixar's mediocre sequels, in my estimation. I also hold the view that the pandemic and Disney+ were not the main reasons behind Disney's box office woes. If that were the case, their movies would have gained popularity on streaming or in the parks and their merchandise would fly off the shelves which hasn't been the case.

And it's weird also the way people are weighing Wish and Strange World as her sole contributions to Disney Animation when she also gave them things like Encanto.

Her track record has not been good so far. She's only had one real success, Encanto. Frozen II was only successful because of the original; the sequel was not well-received which I'm sure will be reflected on the third one's box office. There's no way Frozen III is hitting a billion like its predecessors. Raya, Strange World, Wish were all big flops.

[PatrickvD]

I think Frozen transcends all trends. It’s still a phenomenon with kids. Even if Frozen 3 drops from Frozen 2 it will easily clear a billion.

[PatchofBlue]

I'm speaking mostly about the public. I know Lasseter wasn't super popular on this board even before he was outed. But I definitely don't remember anyone calling Lasseter into question after something like The Good Dinosaur or the Pixar sequels, and I think that the latter class especially got a lot more leeway from critics because of the Pixar brand. What I DO remember is that anytime someone with a platform DID point out that the Emperor had no clothes, they still found a way to dance around Lasseter's role in the matter.

The Atlantic posted an article about Pixar underperforming creatively in the mid-2010s. And, yeah, they do mention that maybe Lasseter was being spread too thin ...

How Pixar Lost Its Way
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ay/524484/

Lasseter and Catmull do, after all, have only so many hours in their days to devote to their competing obligations at Pixar and Disney, as Catmull made clear in his book. If the studio with the corporate parent’s name on it took precedence, that would hardly be a surprise. Nor would it be surprising if the dilution of focus took a toll, given how dependent Pixar’s culture was on an intimate circle of innovative minds.

... but Lasseter's not where they placed the ultimate blame for the state of Pixar. They find a way to lay all accountability on the Walt Disney Company in "all roads lead to Disney" fashion.

And Disney has played a central role in the marketing and merchandising of Pixar films since 1991. But when you become a division of the largest entertainment conglomerate in the history of the world, commercial opportunities multiply exponentially. There are a dozen Disney theme parks scattered across the globe in need of, well, themes for their rides.

So the verdict lands more on this line of, "Why couldn't people just leave Lasseter alone to do what he does best? Why did Disney have to come in and sabotage his genius?" which is not the attitude I see a lot of people taking with Lee.

It's an argument that itself misses the mark on what made those sequels so frustrating. It's not like sequels CAN'T be just as good as their originals (Godfather II, Dark Knight, etc), but that requires a steadying hand that just wasn't there with movies like The Incredibles 2. Like, I remembered being excited for Finding Dory, but leaving the theater just feeling like I'd been punked, especially knowing that Toy Story 2&3 show that Pixar can pull off masterful sequels.

As far as whose output was worse, we may just have to accept that we disagree on how bad the Pixar sequels were. (In a similar way to how I just kind of accept that I'm one of those rare people on this board who genuinely believes that Frozen II was a great film and can articulate exactly why.) The only bad movie I'd personally say we got from Lee was Wish, and even that movie I think gets roasted more than it actually deserves. Strange World was just kinda limp, but had some good stuff in there. Raya was just a little too timid, but otherwise fine. This I would say is a total contrast to something like Finding Dory where their solution to every plotpoint was just "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks."

Lasseter and Lee also came into their respective positions of power at completely different times, both in respect to Disney's placement and the state of Hollywood in general. Lasseter had the benefit of coming in after Disney couldn't have sunk any lower, whereas Lee came in right as Disney was at its peak. If Lee had somehow been put in charge right after Frank Wells died, right after Jeffrey Katzenberg left and started his own party for the cool kids, and right after Pixar started changing how we even talked about animation, I guarantee you the press would all know Lee as "The Woman Who Killed the Disney Renaissance." Lee got her position just as the car was about to fall off the cliff, Lasseter got to come in and do clean-up after the crash had stopped rolling.

Anyways, I'm also personally of the opinion that the internet likes to sell Frozen II short partially as another way of diminishing Lee's contributions (that, and also as a product of the general love/hate relationship the public has with the first movie).

[Avaitor]

I think another factor re: Lasseter vs Lee is that Lasseter had at least 15 years of good will with Pixar before his tenure started to underwhelm; I think Cars 2 is the first film of his to be considered an outright mistake, and even that was still a modest commercial success and kept toy sales through the roof. Meanwhile, even when you factor Lee's prior success with Frozen and Wreck-It Ralph, her track record has not been nearly as impressive to date.

I say this as someone who was also skeptical of Lasseter during his joint Pixar and WDAS tenure.

[The Disneynerd]

John Musker: Disney Animation Needs A ‘Course Correction’
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-comme ... 41223.html

Im glad he spoke out about it, especially since he has so much filmmaking knowledge with his great disney classics

I think Frozen transcends all trends. It’s still a phenomenon with kids. Even if Frozen 3 drops from Frozen 2 it will easily clear a billion.

I agree with that. While the sequel was forgettable garbage, Frozen fever and the love for the first flick is still strong after over an decade, i mean the merch is still selling strongly, the Limeted Edition dolls sold out in minutes, and the 2013 movie is still in the top 10 most streamed movies on D+, the midquel may slowed anticipation for the third part and it probably wont get close to the numbers of 1,4 Billion$ WW, but it will still scratch the Billion Dollar Mark regardless like Toy Story 3&4

I'm just saying ... no one called John Lasseter's leadership into question after his decade of mid-quality sequels or the belly-flop of The Good Dinosaur.

Yeah the Good Dinosaur is one of the more weaker pixar Films, but still its way more emotional and looks like a masterpiece compared to WDAS recent output like Wish or Cringe World, but I dont have a problem with the new Pixar movies, Pixar manages the 2020s quite well, but WDAS is in problematic territory


It was a well and understandable choice to put Pete Doctor in charge for Pixar, he was part of the Studio for a few decades and directed many great Pixar Films, he clearly knows how to navigate, but Jenifer Lee??? She seems nice but how on earth was she put on this Position out of nowhere? She codirected Frozen in a last Minute act and gets thrown in a podestal as if she was the main reason WDAS was on top of its game again in the 2010s .... Did she also direct or screenwrite the Billion Dollar hit Zootopia? Or Moana?

I guess it would have made more sense to put Byron Howard in charge for WDAS pls, i mean from Directing Tangled, Zootopia and Encanto, hit after hit, he Definetely has some creative quality that would help navigate the studios creativity i guess

[DisneyFan09]

I disagree on both accounts there. Raya, Strange World, and Wish are bigger blunders than Pixar's mediocre sequels, in my estimation. I also hold the view that the pandemic and Disney+ were not the main reasons behind Disney's box office woes. If that were the case, their movies would have gained popularity on streaming or in the parks and their merchandise would fly off the shelves which hasn't been the case.

Surprised to see that Strange World gained a following on streamings. Since it was an outright bomb and people didn`t cared for it all (besides the critics), it`s surprising that it did better on streamings. And especially how it was retreading ground of previous flops with the same genre (Atlantis and Treasure Planet) and unlike both Raya and the Last Dragon and Wish, wasn`t steeped in Disney`s Princess Formula elements.

[Jules]

It was a well and understandable choice to put Pete Doctor in charge for Pixar, he was part of the Studio for a few decades and directed many great Pixar Films, he clearly knows how to navigate, but Jenifer Lee??? She seems nice but how on earth was she put on this Position out of nowhere? She codirected Frozen in a last Minute act and gets thrown in a podestal as if she was the main reason WDAS was on top of its game again in the 2010s .... Did she also direct or screenwrite the Billion Dollar hit Zootopia? Or Moana?

Nail hit on head very efficiently. Thanks.

[The Disneynerd]

Nail hit on head very efficiently. Thanks.

Thanks Jules hihihihi

I think its clear a big factor for her new position is that shes a woman, since Lasseter was thrown out after apparently assaulting women, a female then had to replace him to automatically to make up for that, no matter how much or lack of experience she has. Another reason I wished she wouldnt have been the new CEO is so she could have been able to focus more on Frozen 2s development, which was clearly necessary.

[Farerb]

Ron Clement's book will be released in summer 2025:


https://www.instagram.com/p/C-dcGFZPALZ/

[Farerb]

Making Disney Magic … from a Mermaid to Moana
Tales of a Disney Animation Director
by: Ron Clements

An engaging story of 40 magical years of Disney animation, featuring nearly 500 museum-quality, full-color pages and 1,000+ pieces of archival artwork and photos.

The corners of this smaller-than-typical coffee table book also serve as an animation flip-book celebrating Disney characters from the 1970s–2010s.

If your favorite Disney Princess is Moana or Ariel . . . if your favorite Disney magic comes from Aladdin’s Genie or Mama Odie . . . if your favorite Disney baddie is Hades or Professor Ratigan . . . then say, “thank you,” to Ron Clements. (He says, “you’re welcome”.)

As a key fillmaker of some of the most beloved Disney movies of all time, Ron Clements shares his 40-year history at Walt Disney Animation Studios. His armchair-worthy memoir meets coffee table art book is an honest, fun, and eye-opening ride sure to delight every Disney fan!

Movies that Ron features in his book:

Moana (2016)
The Princess and the Frog (2009)
Treasure Planet (2002)
Hercules (1997)
Aladdin (1992)
The Little Mermaid (1989)
The Great Mouse Detective (1986)
The Fox and the Hound (1981)
Pete’s Dragon (1977)
The Rescuers (1977)
Pinocchio (1940)
Ron shares Easter eggs, behind-the-scenes stories & fun facts about:

People who directly worked on & influenced a film
Research trips & selection of artists, voice cast & musicians in preparation for a film
Screenwriting, character development & world-building processes
From storyboards to final frames & technical innovations
Voice, music & sound recording/editing process
Early screenings (preparation to feedback & resulting changes)
Press tours, debuts, receptions, awards seasons & growing the Disney legacy

https://books.disney.com/book/making-disney-magic/