Peter Pan & Wendy (Live-Action)

[Patricier21]

Once again, fittingly also in relation to Review Bombing, I must say that it is your attitudes here that is the main catalyst for allot of the so called “problems” this movie has when again, at least some of it may very well be a problem with YOU. You may hear that this movie has this and that, but you may very well be overlooking the fact that maybe just maybe these changes are at least reasonably considering. For example, race bending Tinker Bell Actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it, as she is a native of never land, so therefore it would be more natural for her to be of colour. Likewise, like I’ve said before, giving Tiger Lily a bigger role also makes natural sense since she is a good friend to Peter, and would as such be involved with a lot of the things that he does, especially considering/despite the constant “time loop” that Neverland seems to be on, Peter and the boys, the Indians and pirates constantly switching back and forth between the “games” that they play/are against each other, as even in a constant state, realistically it would still evolve in some kind of way; There’s even other media such as Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep that subtly touches on this, Peter even staying that he would rather go treasure hunting then battle Captain Hook AGAIN. Also like I said before, despite their claims that “girls are too smart to get lost” do you not think that maybe, just maybe that Wendy surely cannot be the only girl who has ever felt the way that she does and actually WANT to get “lost”? Let alone the interesting “traditional” fact that the LEADER of the “Lost BOYS” Peter Pan “himself” has usually ALWAYS been played by a GIRL not only on stage but in film and other adaptations as well, eh?


Just think about how you would feel if you were living in this kind of way, even “realistically” or not. How would YOU truly feel? How would things truly be? Believe it or not, not only myself, but I know others who have experienced more or less this exact same kind of thing, and this movie, while not without its flaws, does portray this as reasonably authentic and natural while still being loyal (perhaps more than in some ways) to its original source material, no matter what no matter how otherwise it may seem.

[Disney's Divinity]

Personally, I don't care about PP, but I understand why those who are fans of the original don't like most of the changes (cutting the songs, giving Hook a sob story, etc). I feel like only the changes to cut "What Makes the Red Man Red," change Tiger Lily, and make Tinker Bell less misogynist were justified. And even then, it's not like Tiger Lily here is any good, she's still a tertiary character, and Tinker Bell could still dislike Wendy just not want to murder her.

[UmbrellaFish]

At the end of the day, any discussion regarding review-bombing boils down to this: "If it's something I like and/or it aligns with my politics then bad reviews are review-bombing; if it's something I don't like and/or goes against my politics, then bad reviews are rightful, objective criticism."

I think this is our fundamental disagreement, I don’t think it’s that subjective. I think when a movie becomes a political lightning rod and when many new accounts review a movie to give it one star, I think it’s clear the review system is being abused by bad actors no matter what the movie.

I think about the saying “if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.” People should be cautious of giving a pass to certain groups because they’re harming something you dislike for another reason. The ends do not justify the means.

[Disney's Divinity]

Yet again you're resorting to falsehoods. There is nobody here who has given a "pass" to certain groups just because we think some people (self-servingly) like to exaggerate because they don't want to accept the fact that general audiences want their remakes to be generally faithful as far as story, character designs, music numbers, etc.

[UmbrellaFish]

Why, every time you disagree with me, you call me a liar? I wrote a warning, not an accusation.

And please do not try and twist it that “a person who resorts to falsehoods” is not a liar.

[Disney's Divinity]

I don't need to twist because I was calling your arguments falsehoods. And let's be real, you're making a lot of insinuations about everyone posting here with these vaguely worded statements. We have every right to defend ourselves and refute them for what they are. That's more than fair and reasonable.

[UmbrellaFish]

I’m sorry for engaging with you again, Divinity. Still going to speak my mind though.

[Disney's Divinity]

I feel the same, UmbrellaFish, and that's why I don't let you scare me away. This is why I always very carefully word my posts when talking to you and a couple of others for this reason.

Anyway, long story short, PP&W is being review bombed, but not to the extent it means it would've had a positive score otherwise.

[UmbrellaFish]

Anyway, long story short, PP&W is being review bombed, but not to the extent it means it would've had a positive score otherwise.

All this, and we actually agree. Lol. I don’t think it would have had a positive score, but something closer to Pinocchio or probably Lady and the Tramp.

[Disney's Divinity]

Well, Pinocchio's audience is 28%. No doubt it also received its fair share of review bombs, so I don't think PP&W would have ever got to the same level.

[Disney Duster]

Patricier21, if Neverland were in a time loop, I could see why characters in it would get bored and change things up a bit, but Neverland itself wouldn't lose it's natural beauty and scope. Neverland, the land, wouldn't change. Only the people would want to change, and that's if those people aren't effected by the time loop themselves. That's why people feel Neverland should look better, more amazing.

[Patricier21]

Patricier21, if Neverland were in a time loop, I could see why characters in it would get bored and change things up a bit, but Neverland itself wouldn't lose it's natural beauty and scope. Neverland, the land, wouldn't change. Only the people would want to change, and that's if those people aren't effected by the time loop themselves. That's why people feel Neverland should look better, more amazing.

But Neverland would lose some of that overtime per the residents feeling and acting like that.It’s the kind of world where it wouldn’t not truly exist if it wasn’t for its inhabitants, and the way that people living there are acting, not to mention some of the things they may have changed could’ve led to it looking and appearing as so

[Disney Duster]

Ok, I get the idea that if Neverland is magical place it could change from its inhabitants wishing for it to change. But if that is the case, the inhabitants would wish for it to become more beautiful and amazing, not more drab and lackluster, and then it would change to be an amazing Neverland, not the one we got in this film.

[Patricier21]

Ok, I get the idea that if Neverland is magical place it could change from its inhabitants wishing for it to change. But if that is the case, the inhabitants would wish for it to become more beautiful and amazing, not more drab and lackluster, and then it would change to be an amazing Neverland, not the one we got in this film.

But that’s the thing, they are not “wishing” for it to change, it’s changing naturally as a result of their actions and changing from playfully “playing” their wars to something much more personal, dramatic, remorseful and like Peter says at the end “not fun anymore”, them literally taking all of the fun out of where they live themselves if you get what I mean?

[Disney Duster]

Naturally? If Neverland used to be a smaller island with beautiful, amazing land, it would not naturally get bigger and duller. Do you mean if its a magical place, and its inhabitants got bored with what they were doing, the land would change to a boring, no more fun place? If that's what you mean, A) I don't that was the idea they were going for, I remember reading they wanted it to look amazing and they thought it looked amazing where they shot the film, and B) I don't think that idea of yours is as good as the original idea, that it is a magical place made from every child's dream, that stays beautiful and amazing because that's what every child dreams of.

[Patricier21]

Naturally? If Neverland used to be a smaller island with beautiful, amazing land, it would not naturally get bigger and duller. Do you mean if its a magical place, and its inhabitants got bored with what they were doing, the land would change to a boring, no more fun place? If that's what you mean, A) I don't that was the idea they were going for, I remember reading they wanted it to look amazing and they thought it looked amazing where they shot the film, and B) I don't think that idea of yours is as good as the original idea, that it is a magical place made from every child's dream, that stays beautiful and amazing because that's what every child dreams of.

Yes, that’s essentially what I mean especially if Neverland is meant to be a place built up of peoples imaginations, then naturally the state of the place which change in a sense that it lost its colour and wouldn’t be as imaginative per the way that people have been acting there, particularly with the Pirates being a lot more brutal and violent which As we’ve kind of seen in the movie leads to destruction of a lot of things, not to mention the lost boys and apparently the Indians and even mermaids not being as actively present or out and about

[Disney Duster]

If Neverland is only made from the imaginations of the people there, I could almost agree, but any time Peter brings new kids there, I would think those kids would use their imaginations to make it look better.

[Disney's Divinity]

Just keeping this list updated for curiosity's sake. From RottenTomatoes:

Alice in Wonderland 2010
Critics: 51% (278 reviews)
Audience: 55% (480,200 user ratings--changed to "250,000+")

Oz the Great and Powerful 2013
Critics: 56% (273 reviews)
Audience: 56% (292,900 user ratings--changed to "250,000+")

Cinderella 2015
Critics: 83% (257 reviews)
Audience: 78% (77,700 user ratings--changed to "50,000+")

Maleficent 2014
Critics: 54% (278 reviews)
Audience: 70% (176,300 user ratings--changed to "100,000+")

Alice Through the Looking Glass 2016
Critics: 29% (262 reviews)
Audience: 48% (37,800 user ratings--changed to "25,000+")

The Jungle Book 2016
Critics: 94% (330 reviews)
Audience: 86% (94,600 user ratings--changed to "50,000+")

Pete's Dragon 2016
Critics: 88% (247 reviews)
Audience: 72% (37,100 user ratings--changed to "25,000+")

Beauty and the Beast 2017
Critics: 71% (383 reviews)
Audience: 80% (86,300 user ratings--changed to "50,000+")

Mary Poppins Returns 2018
Critics: 80% (381 reviews)
Audience: 64% (5,000+ user ratings)

Christopher Robin 2018
Critics: 72% (277 reviews)
Audience: 82% (5,700 user ratings--changed to "5,000+")

Aladdin 2019
Critics: 57% (386 reviews)
Audience: 94% (50,000+ user ratings)

Lady and the Tramp 2019
Critics: 66% (70 reviews)
Audience: 50% (650 user ratings)

Maleficent: Mistress of Evil 2019
Critics: 39% (259 reviews)
Audience: 95% (19,100 user ratings--changed to "10,000+")

The Lion King 2019
Critics: 52% (435 reviews)
Audience: 88% (76,300 user ratings--changed to "50,000+")

Dumbo 2019
Critics: 45% (370 reviews)
Audience: 48% (4,400 user ratings--changed it to "2,500+")

Mulan 2020
Critics: 72% (323 reviews)
Audience: 47% (10,000+ user ratings)

Cruella 2021
Critics: 75% (409 reviews)
Audience: 97% (5,000+ user ratings)

Pinocchio 2022
Critics: 29% (175 reviews)
Audience: 27% (2,500+ user ratings)

Peter Pan & Wendy 2023
Critics: 62% (132 reviews)
Audience: 11% (5,000+ user ratings)


Audience Ratings Ranked:
Cruella 2021 97%
Maleficent: Mistress of Evil 2019 95%
Aladdin 2019 94%
The Lion King 2019 88%
The Jungle Book 2016 86%
Christopher Robin 2018 82%
Beauty and the Beast 2017 80%
Cinderella 2015 78%
Pete's Dragon 2016 72%
Maleficent 2014 70%
Mary Poppins Returns 2018 64%
Oz the Great and Powerful 2013 56%
Alice in Wonderland 2010 55%
Lady and the Tramp 2019 50%
Alice Through the Looking Glass 2016 48%
Dumbo 2019 48%
Mulan 2020 47%
Pinocchio 2022 27%
Peter Pan & Wendy 2023 11%

Critics Ratings Ranked:
The Jungle Book 2016 94%
Pete's Dragon 2016 88%
Cinderella 2015 83%
Mary Poppins Returns 2018 80%
Cruella 2021 75%
Mulan 2020 72%
Christopher Robin 2018 72%
Beauty and the Beast 2017 71%
Lady and the Tramp 2019 66%
Peter Pan & Wendy 2023 62%
Aladdin 2019 57%
Oz the Great and Powerful 2013 56%
Maleficent 2014 2014 54%
The Lion King 2019 52%
Alice in Wonderland 2010 51%
Dumbo 2019 45%
Maleficent: Mistress of Evil 2019 39%
Pinocchio 2022 29%
Alice Through the Looking Glass 2016 29%

Little changes--
Down in critics score: Mulan, Oz
Down in audience score: CR, MPR, Mulan
Up in critics: Cruella, L&tT, Alice Through the Looking Glass

Not surprising all the billion earners trend at the top of the audience list. Disney seems to be chasing critics more than audiences these days, which must be why they're hurting at the box office.

[Vlad]

62%???? Way too much.

So, in the critics' opinion, Peter Pan & Wendy was better than Aladdin, Maleficent and The Lion King?! What the actual f**k? Even Alice Through the Looking Glass was more interesting than this.

[Sotiris]

62%???? Way too much.

For what it's worth, the Top Critics score is 52%.