Worst Pre Renaissance Disney Animated Film

[Farerb]

What is the worst pre Renaissance Disney animated film in your opinion?

[carolinakid]

I like them all but I would say the one I enjoy the least would be The Great Mouse Detective.

In all honesty, I’m taking pre-Renaissance films to be those of the so-called Bronze Age (1970-1988).

I actually enjoy all of the Walt era (1937-1967) films. I don’t think any of them is “bad”.
At least not Lightyear or Strange World level of dreadful.

[singerguy04]

The Package Films are rough. If they're included the prize goes to Melody Time in particular. I think the other stick to a more recognizable form, but Melody Time feels more like a bunch of Fantasia-like rip-offs.

If we're talking more "storied" films, I'd have to say my least favorite is probably The Fox and The Hound. I enjoy the song "Best of Friends" and the two leads are cute, but the buck stops there for me. It tugs at the heart strings, but it's kind of torture and a but self-inflicting to endure THAT scene, haha. I do give it credit for having that power, and I don't really think it's the worst for that reason. I just don't enjoy it as much as the others.

If we're really talking worst all around, even though I've grown to like it, it's probably The Black Cauldron. It's just a mess at the end of the day. I think it suffers from mostly being over cooked, and there were too many chefs in the kitchen. I think it has some really great moments, and I could tell where we were going but it does little to follow through.

[Disney's Divinity]

It's one of Peter Pan, The Three Caballeros, or Saludos Amigos for me. The Aristocats is near the same zone, although even it and Pan have bright spots (O'Malley & Duchess, Tik Tok, Hook, Smee, Wendy, Nana, some of Pan's soundtrack, the designs in Pan, *some* of Aristocats' comedy). Sleeping Beauty and Alice can be a bit sleepy and dull at times, but not "bad." Those first three though that are the ones I enjoy the least or have the hardest time enjoying.

[blackcauldron85]

I think Make Mine Music has more boring segments than Melody Time (really just "Trees" is boring in MT, imo), so that gets my vote. I actually quite like most segments in MT.

[D82]

I think my least favorite film from this period has to be either The Fox and The Hound, Oliver & Company or one of the package films. I don't hate any of these classics, but they are among the ones I'm usually less excited to revisit.

The Package Films are rough. If they're included the prize goes to Melody Time in particular. I think the other stick to a more recognizable form, but Melody Time feels more like a bunch of Fantasia-like rip-offs.

Melody Time is also my least favorite of the package films. Some of the most boring stuff from them, in my opinion, is in The Three Caballeros, though, but there are segments in it I really like like the stories of The Cold-Blooded Penguin and The Flying Gauchito or the ending portion with the three title characters. Personally, I like some package films much more than others. While Melody Time is not among my favorite Disney films, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad and Fun and Fancy Free are at least on my top 30 or so WDAS films.

I think Make Mine Music has more boring segments than Melody Time (really just "Trees" is boring in MT, imo), so that gets my vote. I actually quite like most segments in MT.

Yes, Make Mine Music has more segments that are boring, but to me the good ones in it are better than the good ones in Melody Time.

[Farerb]

Why The Fox and The Hound is one of your least favorites?

Regarding the package films, I don't really understand why they count as part of the counting, but anyway I like these segments from Make Mine Music: All the Cats Join In, Peter and the Wolf and Johnnie Fedora and Alice Bluebonnet. I prefer Clair de lune over Blue Bayou.
From Melody Time I only really like Once Upon a Wintertime.
And I like The Legend of Sleepy Hollow segment from Ichabod and Mr Toad.

I don't really care for the other package films.

As for the actual films. I'm not really a fan of the 70's-80's era films, the only one I love is The Great Mouse Detective. But I think the worst one of them is Oliver and Company.

[Jules]

I think the package films count as features because technically they are indeed features, albeit assembled from shorter films. (They are, in fact, anthology features same as Fantasia, The Many Adventures if Winnie the Pooh and Fantasia 2000.)

Primarily, I consider them as features because they were sold as such at the time. They got posters and trailers and were clearly marketed as full-length features by Walt Disney. (Even Saludos Amigos!)

I think I'm the only real fan of the package features around here. I particularly love The Three Caballeros, Make Mine Music and Melody Time.

Oops. Wrong thread.

[carolinakid]

Jules, I love the package films too and I long for the day when Make Mine Music receives an uncensored US release.

[Vlad]

I wouldn't say they're bad, but if I were to choose my least favorite, I'd pick The Rescuers, The Fox and the Hound, and Robin Hood. I enjoy watching them from time to time, but they're not particularly memorable.

I also watched the package films, and I found them surprisingly enjoyable. I didn't think they'd be, but I really liked them.

[D82]

I think the package films count as features because technically they are indeed features, albeit assembled from shorter films. (They are, in fact, anthology features same as Fantasia, The Many Adventures if Winnie the Pooh and Fantasia 2000.)

Primarily, I consider them as features because they were sold as such at the time. They got posters and trailers and were clearly marketed as full-length features by Walt Disney. (Even Saludos Amigos!)

I totally agree. Films comprised of several short stories are considered movies too. Some live-action examples are Four Rooms, New York Stories, Sin City or The Ballad Of Buster Scruggs. If you don't count them as features, you shouldn't count Fantasia and the other anthology films you mentioned as such either. I know Fantasia was conceived that way from the beginning, while for the package films Disney was forced to make them like that due to the war, and he used some ideas that had been developed for a Fantasia sequel and turned others they had planned to do as features into shorter stories, like The Wind in the Willows. But it's not like the shorts had been first released on their own and then Disney just combined them into a compilation. They premiered as package films and some effort was made to give each film a theme.

It's true that when it comes to ranking them, for instance, it's more difficult to compare them to films with just one story, so I partly understand why some people prefer not to count them as classics, but I personally think they are as much as the rest.

Why The Fox and The Hound is one of your least favorites?

I don't know. I actually think it's not a bad movie and I enjoy it every time I watch it, but like I said, I'm never too excited to revisit it. Perhaps it's because I don't like any of the characters that much and it's not as cheerful and optimistic as most Disney films. Also, I normally don't find sidekicks annoying as other people do, but Dinky and Boomer have to be two of my least favorites from Disney and they have a subplot that is totally unrelated to the main one.

Regarding the package films, I don't really understand why they count as part of the counting, but anyway I like these segments from Make Mine Music: All the Cats Join In, Peter and the Wolf and Johnnie Fedora and Alice Bluebonnet. I prefer Clair de lune over Blue Bayou.
From Melody Time I only really like Once Upon a Wintertime.
And I like The Legend of Sleepy Hollow segment from Ichabod and Mr Toad.

I personally like most of the segments, but these are the ones I'm not a big fan of (it's easier than listing the ones I like):

Saludos Amigos
Aquarela do Brasil

The Three Caballeros
Mainly You Belong to My Heart and some of the other song performances.

Make Mine Music
Blue Bayou
Without You (although I like the song)
Two Silhouettes (I like the song too)

Melody Time
Trees
Blame It on the Samba
I like the rest, but The Legend of Johnny Appleseed and Pecos Bill are not as good as the best shorts in other package films, in my opinion, and I think Little Toot is a bit too similar to Pedro from Saludos Amigos.

As for Fun and Fancy Free and The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, I like all the segments in them. My favorite from the former is Mickey and the Beanstalk, but I really like Bongo and its songs too, and I think I like both The Wind in the Willows and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow equally.

As for the actual films. I'm not really a fan of the 70's-80's era films, the only one I love is The Great Mouse Detective. But I think the worst one of them is Oliver and Company.

Some of my least favorite Disney films are also from that period, but there are others I love like The Rescuers, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, The Great Mouse Detective or The Black Cauldron, so for me it's not such a bad era after all.

[Disney's Divinity]

Personally, I love Melody Time, Fun and Fancy Free, and Make Mine Music. The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad is okay. It's the other two that are dull as dishwater. That surprises me considering Donald is in them, but I can almost never make it the whole way through them.

[Farerb]

Some of my least favorite Disney films are also from that period, but there are others I love like The Rescuers, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, The Great Mouse Detective or The Black Cauldron, so for me it's not such a bad era after all.

While I'm not a fan of this era, I don't hate it. I do think the films have a certain charm to them, even if they are a little bit flat. I watched Alice in Wonderland with my niece the other day, and then we put on The Aristocats and she asked me why didn't it look as good as Alice did.

My least favorite timeframe in Disney history is 2003-2008 and NOW actually.

[singerguy04]

It's funny to me that for the most part we can all agree that the package films are one of the weakest times in Disney Animation (I also think the studios would agree), but that we all seem to be a little split among them.

Between them I'd rank them this way...

The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad
Fun & Fancy Free
The Three Caballeros
Saludos Amigos
Make Mine Music
Melody Time

I think we all would rank them differently, and that ranking would be even more debatable than a time like the renaissance. That makes these films a little more charming to me, because as we talk about them there are more parts I find enjoyable.

[Sotiris]

I like all of them, really. There are some segments from Fantasia and the package films I find dull, but they all have segments I love too, so I can't pick any one film.

[carolinakid]

I hold the package features especially dear because I love 1940s’ culture, fashion, music, films, Broadway shows, etc., so I just revel in anything from that era. Even though Cinderella was released in February 1950, I consider it very much a product of the ‘40s, also.

[Avaitor]

I'm not really sure what my least favorite would be, but I don't have a whole lot of use for The Aristocats anymore. As a kid, I liked the music and thought that the cats were cute (even if I was always more of a dog person), but there just isn't very much to it. I do still like the soundtrack and the character designs, but the animation and writing are below the studio's standards, even by that point in their history. I don't think Robin Hood is a lot better, especially when it focuses on the kids and its largely lame slapstick, but I do find Prince John and Sir Hiss to be entertaining enough. And then I don't think there's much to Oliver and Company, aside from nice designs for the animals and some fun songs... but I also don't like Dickens, so the story is a hard sale for me.

As for the package features, I'd put Ichabod and Mr. Toad near my all-time favorites, I love both segments almost equally (my spooky self ultimately sides with Sleepy Hollow), but the others are more of a mixed bag. With Fun and Fancy Free, I love Mickey and the Beanstalk and Jiminy Cricket's songs, but Bongo is rough to me. While I usually appreciate the songwriting from this time, Dinah Shore's songs do not work for me at all and sound dated in the worst possible way (although I'm reminded that I still have JB Kaufman's book on the film, still waiting to be read). I like the artistry behind Make Mine Music and Melody Time and have pleasant memories with both, but I never return to either. And I ultimately prefer the story behind Saludos Amigos to the final product, which is surprisingly dry. I like The Three Caballeros a little better, though. The segments are more entertaining and I do like the characters of Jose and Panchito.

Fun fact- until a few months ago, when I got to see Fantasia at my local arthouse theater, Three Caballeros was the only movie from Walt's time that I got to see in theaters, thanks to D23. So it holds a special place in my heart for that alone.

[Farerb]

Fun fact- until a few months ago, when I got to see Fantasia at my local arthouse theater, Three Caballeros was the only movie from Walt's time that I got to see in theaters, thanks to D23. So it holds a special place in my heart for that alone.

Interesting.
I only went to a screening of Fantasia with a live orchestra. I had a chance to go and see Cinderella at the theaters but ultimately passed over it because I figured they'd used the faulty Blu-ray master.

[Avaitor]

Fun fact- until a few months ago, when I got to see Fantasia at my local arthouse theater, Three Caballeros was the only movie from Walt's time that I got to see in theaters, thanks to D23. So it holds a special place in my heart for that alone.

Interesting.
I only went to a screening of Fantasia with a live orchestra. I had a chance to go and see Cinderella at the theaters but ultimately passed over it because I figured they'd used the faulty Blu-ray master.

Yeah, I'll admit that Three Caballeros wasn't exactly my first choice, but it's one of my friend's favorites (he likes Donald even more than I do) and since I had the membership, I decided to hit it up. It looked nice on the big screen and was shown with a nice panel about Walt's good will trip to South America and even showed a short with Donald and the Aracuan Bird right before.

And it came with a cool-looking set of buttons, too!



That sounds like a good experience for Fantasia! And I hope that a Cinderella screening wouldn't use that print.

[D82]

While I'm not a fan of this era, I don't hate it. I do think the films have a certain charm to them, even if they are a little bit flat. I watched Alice in Wonderland with my niece the other day, and then we put on The Aristocats and she asked me why didn't it look as good as Alice did.

Well, I agree the films from the '70s and '80s are weaker than Walt's films in general, but yes, they still have some charm to them, as you said, and some are better than others. Visually, I much prefer the cleaner look of the ink and paint method than Xerox, although the latter doesn't bother me as much as it did in the past. I never outright hated it, but I remember as a child I wished all the films looked like Dumbo or Cinderella.

My least favorite timeframe in Disney history is 2003-2008 and NOW actually.

Yeah, the 2000s were worse in general than the '70s/'80s and the current era is very mixed, in my opinion.

By the way, I realized later that what I said about the package features perhaps sounded a bit too harsh, like saying that if people don't count them as features, they shouldn't count Fantasia and the other anthology films as such. That's just my opinion, but it doesn't mean I don't respect other points of view. After all, I know the canon has changed several times and there's not a clear consensus on which films should be part of it and which ones shouldn't.