LGBT Disney

[Disney Duster]

Carolinakid, what if a 5-8 year old boy felt like he wanted to be a girl? No teacher could really talk about it. They'd have to shut the kid up. What if a 5-8 year old child had seen two dudes kissing and told a teacher about it? The teacher would have to shut that kid up, too. Or ignore them. It's not sick. It's normal. Sick is the hatred behind the Don't Say Gay Bill and removing the Reedy Creek statute. You said you knew as a child you were gay but didn't know what it was. You wish all children would just have been in the dark like you? Feeling alone in what you wanted while all straight children got to here stories of princes marrying princesses because apparently straight romance is ok for kids to hear of but not gay romance at all? And all kids like you would feel they could never find happiness the way they wanted to? As a poor little kid?

[Farerb]

President Biden Condemns Republicans & Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Over Attacks on Disney and Reedy Creek Improvement District
https://wdwnt.com/2022/04/president-bid ... -district/

[Disney's Divinity]

I read that Randy Creek losing its status will cost 370 government employees their jobs, including 200 first responders, on top of making Orange County taxpayers' taxes go up. So it's a loss for Floridians on top of being a case of (attempted) silencing of political dissent. Disney will win the long game because politicians, including presidents, come and go--meanwhile Disney's been around almost a century now.

[Sotiris]

Carolinakid, what if a 5-8 year old boy felt like he wanted to be a girl? No teacher could really talk about it. They'd have to shut the kid up. What if a 5-8 year old child had seen two dudes kissing and told a teacher about it? The teacher would have to shut that kid up, too. Or ignore them.

They could talk to them about it, actually. The law doesn't prohibit casual discussion in the classroom, just curriculum-based instruction.

[Disney Duster]

Carolinakid, what if a 5-8 year old boy felt like he wanted to be a girl? No teacher could really talk about it. They'd have to shut the kid up. What if a 5-8 year old child had seen two dudes kissing and told a teacher about it? The teacher would have to shut that kid up, too. Or ignore them.

They could talk to them about it, actually. The law doesn't prohibit casual discussion in the classroom, just curriculum-based instruction.

Oh. I don't know what curriculum would be about such things other than books that have same-sex couples or discussion like Heather Has Two Mommies or something. If it only prevents a curriculum about it, the bill is not as bad as I thought. Still bad, but, yeah, I didn't fully get it. I was wrong about some stuff.

[carolinakid]

Thanks, Sotiris.
Duster, I’ve always known you to be fair. Glad to see that hasn’t changed over the years.

[robster16]

Sorry to disappoint you, but the queer community is not monolithic in its political views, nor does it embrace groupthink. The queer community I belong to welcomes a diverse range of opinions.

Funny how some folks who become unhinged at “Republicans trying to cancel Disney” are perfectly at peace with “woke” people’s unsuccessful attempts to cancel Chick-fil-A and other corporations whose views they disagree with.

As a member of the queer community you should know that a law that instructs teachers to inform parents about their child's sexual orientation or gender identity even if that goes against the wishes of the child and could put them in serious mental and physical danger is something that should be avoided at all costs. The Bill paints in broad strokes but fails to provide safety for an already sensitive group of people and by branding ALL the people who do not support it as groomers (which the right is adamantly doing in every way shape or form) is even more harmful. They are vilifying the term and the people speaking up for equal treatment. And why? Because a majority of people is being gravely misinformed about what is actually happening in classrooms and what the experience of living a life as someone within the LGBT community is truly like.

[Sotiris]

As a member of the queer community you should know that a law that instructs teachers to inform parents about their child's sexual orientation or gender identity even if that goes against the wishes of the child and could put them in serious mental and physical danger.

The bill says that teachers must inform parents if they notice a "change in a student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being". There's no mention of sexual orientation or gender identity in this part. If a child is showing signs of depression, aggression or other mental health issues, parents can be informed about it promptly and get the child some needed help.

Could this be used against queer kids? It doesn't seem likely given there is an exemption that allows teachers to withhold information from parents if there's reasonable belief that such a disclosure could lead to abuse, abandonment or neglect.

[robster16]

As a member of the queer community you should know that a law that instructs teachers to inform parents about their child's sexual orientation or gender identity even if that goes against the wishes of the child and could put them in serious mental and physical danger.

The bill says that teachers must inform parents if they notice a "change in a student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being". There's no mention of sexual orientation or gender identity in this part. If a child is showing signs of depression, aggression or other mental health issues, parents can be informed about it promptly and get the child some needed help.

Could this be used against queer kids? It doesn't seem likely given there is an exemption that allows teachers to withhold information from parents if there's reasonable belief that such a disclosure could lead to abuse, abandonment or neglect.

If that is all the case then why is this not communicated by the right? Why are they so adamant in repeating terms like grooming and pedophilia in relation to the LGBT community?! Why not correct misinformation and explain there bill but chose to vilify, misrepresent and gaslight people into thinking everything LGBT related is downright evil?! It makes no sense what so ever!?!

[Sotiris]

I think it stems from the belief that kids can be schooled into being queer. That's why they don't want LGBT-related material beng taught to young students. It comes from a place of fear and ignorance, but the bill itself doesn't seem harmful to queer kids. I think it was introduced to placate conservatives who had such concerns, but without implementing anything radical that could be discriminatory or unconstitutional.

Also, it's important to note that conservatives did try to clarify some things. For example, the bill's sponsors explained that casual discussion about sexual orientation and gender identity in the classroom was allowed under the bill, but liberals wouldn't hear it.

[robster16]

I think it stems from the belief that kids can be schooled into being queer. That's why they don't want LGBT-related material beng taught to young students. It comes from a place of fear and ignorance, but the bill itself doesn't seem harmful to queer kids. I think it was introduced to placate conservatives who had such concerns, but without implementing anything radical that could be discriminatory or unconstitutional.

Also, it's important to note that conservatives did try to clarify some things. For example, the bill's sponsors explained that casual discussion about sexual orientation and gender identity in the classroom was allowed under the bill, but liberals wouldn't hear it.

Well, the most visual people within the Republican Party, especially Ron DeSantis himself has also used the analogy of grooming and pedophilia which isn't helpful regarding LGBT people of any age, students or adults. As long as he keeps using that terminology people from within the community will keep resisting and fighting him.

And that dumb and backwards idea that being queer can be schooled is just mind-blowing. I have been bombarded with heterosexual imagery in every aspect of my life while growing up and that didn't prevent me from growing up gay. I was BORN gay, the idea that you can TURN people gay or trans or whatever is absurd. What might happen is that with education and breaking down barriers people might feel more inclined to just be themselves, however they identify instead of hiding their true identity in fear, shame or whatever. Being part of the LGBT community should be normalised, which would prevent a lot of mental issues. Especially since it has ZERO impact on people other than the people who have those feelings. Let me live my life in peace, I do not need any judgement, criticism, hatred, bigotry or scrutiny! and I certainly do not deserve it!

[Sotiris]

Of course. I'm not arguing that Republicans support the LGBT community. Just that the scope of this particular bill is very limited and regardless of the intention, it's unlikely to negatively impact queer kids. It has been mischaracterized and exaggerated in the press to fan the flames of the culture war.

[Disney's Divinity]

They could talk to them about it, actually. The law doesn't prohibit casual discussion in the classroom, just curriculum-based instruction.

The bill is intentionally vague to allow homophobes to sue school systems over anything they perceive to be "brainwashing" their children to be gay. Thinking anyone is willing to risk being sued by having a casual conversation about sexuality a child might bring up in an atmosphere like that one is denialism to me and occluding what's happening. The bill is intended as a chilling, silencing effect on LGBT and their allies on both sides of the equation--teachers and students. Pretending it's not so bad is practicing in fantasy by pretending that there is legitimacy to the idea that there are teachers somewhere pulling out pornography to show children sex between two men or two women, or videos of sex change operations. I'm sorry, but that's happening nowhere in any country on earth, much less in America. It's scaremongering based in homophobia parading as "parental rights." These are the same people who want math books banned for mentioning a character with same-sex parents or simply a Black character in word problems, or picture books banned for featuring a protagonist that is non-White or that has same-sex parents. You can put a "Medicine" label on a bottle of poison, but it's still poison.

The bill says that teachers must inform parents if they notice a "change in a student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being". There's no mention of sexual orientation or gender identity in this part. If a child is showing signs of depression, aggression or other mental health issues, parents can be informed about it promptly and get the child some needed help.

Could this be used against queer kids? It doesn't seem likely given there is an exemption that allows teachers to withhold information from parents if there's reasonable belief that such a disclosure could lead to abuse, abandonment or neglect.

You forget that that same party wants parents who are supportive of their trans children to be charged with "child abuse"... From that homophobic point of view and logic, not reporting someone questioning their sexuality or gender could feasibly be used by a homophobic parent (or someone who's not even related to the child) to sue the school system for having "endangered" a child by not reporting it to the authorities.

[Disney Duster]

Thanks, Sotiris.
Duster, I’ve always known you to be fair. Glad to see that hasn’t changed over the years.

Leave it to you to make a forum member feel good even while I have such bad feelings about what you are supporting. Thank you. You're a good guy, too.

Honestly, I haven't read the bill because I am afraid it is too long and I won't have time or that I won't even understand it. Could someone provide a link so I can check it out? I think anyway I would still agree with Divinity.

[Disney's Divinity]

Could someone provide a link so I can check it out?

Here's one of the first I found from Googling:

Florida’s law limiting LGBTQ discussion in schools, explained
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -gay-bill/

Of particular notice is #3, imo.

[Disney Duster]

Oh my God. That bill is...horrible. So, it doesn't allow classroom discussion of gay or transgender anything. So I guess students in private could talk about such things? Sotiris, do you know? But in the classroom, a kid would have to shut up about liking a same gender person or wanting to be the opposite gender they were assigned at birth or anything about having seen other people who do such things! And a teacher couldn't even say in the classroom they were gay and had a same-sex partner or were the opposite gender than what they were assigned at birth! And that stuff about race that was similar to the bill is horrifying!

[carolinakid]

Put down your pearls for a moment , duster, and be honest. How much did you want to discuss your sexual orientation or gender identification in class with the teacher from ages 5-8? Did you really read the bill ... or the Washington Post’s interpretation of it? Not exactly the most unbiased source. Let’s be fair. Even though I knew I liked boys by elementary school ( I was reading teen idol magazines by 4th grade and Playgirl by 8th grade) I’m glad I waited until almost puberty to explore the issues.

Duster, I’m just teasing about the pearls. Your sensitivity is charming!

[Jules]

I've been following this thread day by day, even though I didn't reply to Duster the last time he commented on what I wrote. (I intended to, but never found the time. )

I am now rather confused about this bill, and am not sure where I stand. What I know is that when I last posted I was hovering somewhere between carolinakid, and the others.

What I am still confused about is whether kids and teachers can actually mention being gay or transgender people with this bill in action.

If they still can - and this is certainly necessary in this day and age if there's a case of bullying and whatnot - then I am not sure why this bill is so objectionable.

I agree with carolinakid that at that age, sexual orientation and gender identity have limited relevance in schools. That is why, in my last post, I explained that as a teacher I would never willingly bring up the subject with such kids, but I would address it if issues arise.

If the bill stops me from doing that last bit, then I do not agree with it.

In this day and age, I really wish Western countries could take sensible, logical decisions, and that everything wouldn't be either ultra-conservative or ulta-liberal.

Personally, I consider myself neither conservative nor liberal. This is problem, because it means I don't really belong anywhere. (Not that I would want to force myself into either of those two groups if I have issues with both! But I do feel a bit lonely, and when I think I've found somebody who shares my voice on the internet or YouTube, I later realise that I was wrong, and that person is still too different from me in their ideologies.)

[Disney's Divinity]

I could've easily found something from, say, CNN or Salon or a LGBT-specific site that was incredibly slanted if I had wanted to give a "biased" source. The article even included the talking point of a majority of Florida agreeing with the bill (as if majority support of wrong could make something less wrong).

What any one person might do is irrelevant. Not the least because no two people are the same in the first place; people come out at a wide range of ages (some in elementary school, some in college, some when they're middle-aged), not everyone is the same. I personally had those feelings when I was in elementary school, although I didn't understand them until later because I'd never even heard the word "gay" at that time. That's because we grew up in different generations where acceptance, much less discussion, of LGBT was very rare. There isn't that kind of invisibility today like there was even in the early 2000's because LGBT are much more visible on television, in books and media than they were then, and children naturally have an analogue for their feelings now rather than simple confusion. It becomes quite the disconnect when they would then go to their school and find that things are being treated as if LGBT are a dirty word like this was still the '80s.

[TheSequelOfDisney]

It takes some pretty strong mental gymnastics to convince oneself that a bill called Don't Say Gay won't negatively impact queer children. We're already a marginalized group, but then not even having the opportunity to discuss our existence in the classroom very obviously stems from hate. It's actually quite disgusting and that's all I have to say about it.